How to lose your game in One Email

[Incriptus]

Advice to new GM's .... This is how you lose your game.

All,

Sent it out as a mass email, that'll be important later.

It's come to light that some of the players in the Friday roleplaying group are not currently satisfied with the style of campaign that is being run. There have been instances of complaining about the large gaps of time between individual character spotlight while the group is split up within the city. There has also been complaints about the apparent "lack" of combat within the campaign.

Come to light, he is 15 sessions into his game, and he doesn't realize that some players may not be satisfied. All of the GM's have discontinued campaigns in less time because they realized there game wasn't living up to expectations.

Fun fact, I guess he doesn't realize that "some of the players" is really "Everyone except the GM & maybe his brother".

For those of you who have felt then need to [expletive] about the time spent on each individual character when the group is split up, I say to you this; you have no one to blame but yourself, i.e. if you don't want the group separated, then don't split up, it's completely hypocritical for you to go on individual endeavors with your characters then turn around and complain about all the time that it takes for you to wait for your turn. If you don't have any endeavors, perhaps another character would let you tag along while they do what they do. But the choice for whether the characters are together or separate are completely in the players control.

That is quasi-true . . . .if it weren't for the fact that he encourages these endevors himself. Not to mention he is the one who decides if "I go to the magical item shop to buy a magical item" takes 5 minutes or 1 hour per session for 6 sessions.

For those of you that complain about the apparent "lack" of combat with the campaign; roleplaying is about modifying one's behavior to act out or assume a particular character role, this is typically done through acting, communication, speech, body language and many other methods. The game is not all about rolling dice and fighting a high challenge rating monster. If the character you've created is nothing more than a list of stats on paper with the personality of a rock, then perhaps this type of game is not for you, this game is about roleplaying, this isn't World of Warcraft.

I do love him playing the World of Warcraft Card, Strawman arguement much, as if there can't be anything inbetween. If you want to be in an improve acting troupe perhaps D&D isn't the game for you. Personally I'm content with 1/3 interactive storytelling, 1/3 Tactical Combat, 1/3 hanging out with my friends. So he wants our characters to be unique individuals, but its our fault if we don't do everything in a group.

As the game currently stands, the group is back in the city and there isn't a quest on the books for team 6 for the time being. Most of the characters have made mention that they are going to try and hunt something down, find someone, learn something, or study a particular subject. It's likely that the next Friday game (July 19th) will involve individual roleplaying, i.e. separate mini-sessions. If Incriptus or any other player with the attitude that I've listed above is going to have a problem with type of roleplaying, descriptions, "lack" of combat, or what ever else you've been [expletive] about, don't bother showing up, your presence and attitude isn't desired at the table.

There he goes again offering up individual time only to call us hypocrites if we take it up to be more than "stats on a on paper". Calling me out personally in an email to everyone, stay classy.

But the last line is the pièce de résistance "or what ever else". Really if anyone thinks that there game is beyond critique, they need to take a break.

For those of you that were not involved with what I've been writing about then disregard this email.

remember the fun fact above.

For the Roleplayers in the group I'm sorry the drama of a few have started to sour the experience for the rest. I will see you on the 19th. I appreciate those that have continued to explore their character and grow as a roleplayer while being respectful of the game and everyone's time.

"For the Roleplayers", awesome passive agressive attack.

S

Well as it stands, atleast till cooler head prevail, I think 5 of his 6 players are going to take him up on his offer to not bother showing up. . . and you know what, I got 3 people who are waiting to join my next game but can't because it's already too full.

I guess it's a shame that we let it get this far. We should have put our foot down by session 6, but I just kept on hoping it would get better. Since his first campaign was pretty good. Unfortunetly for his second campaign this 30 year old man has turned into a 13 year old boy. He's decided that he's better than everyone who has come before him and if we don't see his greatness it's our fault.

I can't really blame him too much, in my early GMing days I some times succombed to the sin of pride. I too have loved my Setting/NPC's/Storyline to the point of detriment to my players. It happens to all of us right?

----

Thanks for reading this, I guess just writting it out has helped me calm down.

[Noon]

I'm sorry, I'm not going to balm your wounds.

If he would take 30 minutes for buying a magic item at a magic item shop, just because you split up doesn't mean everything has to speed up and skip a bunch of steps. I'd get if, even if the whole group was there, if 30 minutes isn't to your taste. But you split up - and no, that 'he encourages splitting up' doesn't mean that somehow you hold zero responsibility for your choice to split the party and it's all his responsibility. The only error he'd have made there, I think, is to keep inviting people who want to act as if they hold no responsibility for their actions, only others do.

Your '1/3 interactive storytelling, 1/3 Tactical Combat, 1/3 hanging out with my friends' really doesn't matter - if he was in your game and wanted to push for his idea of roleplaying to dominate, would you just fold over to his prefered fractions? I'm guessing not, in which case you treat him as a badguy for not folding to your preferences, but you wouldn't treat yourself as a badguy to not fold, if he were a player in your game. No, that doesn't work out.

I do get not enjoying a particular game and declining to play further (it's why I often say, in regard to new campaigns, that I will try it to level 3 or so - to indiciate I have not just married into a campaign all the way to top level/forever). But it seems like you wont leave unless you can say he's actually done something that's actually wrong. Yes, the game might match my idea of a boring game as well - doesn't mean the guys done anything wrong.

Everyone GM's based on their own excentricities - to try and call one persons excentricities as actually being wrong just goes around, comes around to someone eventually calling what you would say is your own cool way of GM'ing as being actually wrong. If you think you don't GM by your excentricities and are GM'ing 'the right way' - well, that's very excentric of you.

Of course it was going to come to an e-mail like this, because A: You were going to keep having issues but B: Never leave over it. That can never end in a pretty way.

As said, that is why for myself I make an exit tunnel for myself, saying I'll try until level 3 or so - in case the whole dealio really does just - FOR ME - suck!

[The Dark Elf]

I'm sorry, I'm not going to balm your wounds.

Me neither. Im sure theres two sides to a (RPG) story.

[Incriptus]

Yeah, coming on to a GM forum to bad mouth your current GM is poor form . . . I knew I probably shouldn't have had pressed post on that one. Obviously 15 years (the average time I've been friends in real life with these people) of context is a bit difficult to give in an internet post.

Sorry.

[The Dark Elf]

speak to the GM privately with your concerns. no one gets it right for all players.

[Noon]

I'm not sure why the idea 'Were friends - thus we should be perfect GM's for each other' comes up. It's rather like thinking 'Were friends - so we should all like exactly the same music'. It's not realistic.

[Witchcraft]

As a GM for as varied and eclectic a group of Roleplayers I've ever found I am constantly in the position of your current (read: former) GM. I've been running this campaign for a year and after every single session (20 sessions per year) I call each member of the group and talk about what went well, what went poorly, and what could be improved upon. I ask for feedback, constructive criticism, and any kind of input people wanna offer. I certainly don't change the campaign to fit everyone's whims all the time like a dog chasing its tail but I definitely take all opinions and input under advisement and employ those suggestions that I feel work best for the group. If there are ideas / issues that effect more than one person I bring it to the attention of the group and entertain a discussion. I tell my players that this isn't "quite" a democracy but more of an enlightened despotism; I'm the GM -- not a dictator.

One thing that has helped tremendously in appeasing and appealing to all the different playstyles, personalities, and preferences is really mixing **** up. If we have a very plot-heavy, RP-centric session, I try to follow it up with a light-hearted combat romp or some random-encounters the next session to keep it fresh. If we haven't had much plot / intrigue / and skill opportunities I will throw in some chances for the investigators and problem-solving skill-mongers to go at it and chomp at the bit of the next kewl mystery.

The overarching plot is transpiring whether or not the group wants to be involved in it. Over the course of the life of the campaign I expect that they'll experience probably 75% - 80% of it and if that's what they want -- BONZER!

One instance I can truly relate to with regard to your GM's style is when the group is split. What I took from KS's game at the open house (where he runs a group of 13 people or so) is that the GM can compartmentalize and multi-task to keep everyone involved in their own little scene and keep skipping around to different people until everyone has met up again. Another tactic that I've used is kinda hard-walling the wayward adventurer by saying something to the effect of, "you go off on your own for but fail to find anything important or useful to the group." So I'm kinda giving the player the hint that he might wanna stick with the group and maintain the cohesion of the unit. For doing things like going to the magic shop and buying a magic item -- unless the majority of the group is going to the exact same store / location I'll expedite the RP and be done in 5 - 15 minutes. This way I still afford the player an opportunity to do some RP with an NPC, barter, haggle, roll some MA / PB checks, etc. Roll for availability of the items, spend some cash, and then bounce. In that time most of the other players choose to RP amongst themselves or take the opportunity to take a **** or grab some food or go outside for a smoke and it wasn't SO long that people started to really get bored and side-tracked.

I hope sharing my experience as a GM helped!

[Akashic Soldier]

Three weeks ago, I ran a scenario. The concept was simple...

A Water Warlock was hanging out on a ley line and using his magic to mind control whales and dolphins, forcing them to beach themselves.
He was working with a gang of 18 city rats. Who would wash the whales and dolphins and keep them moist so they could not die.
In addition to the gang, the Warlock had under his control a mutant shark/snake that lived in the ocean near the ley line. Its stats were less than remarkable.

The entire adventure was supposed to fill a few hours in one night. The players were supposed to go down after being spotted by one of the city rats who was "scouting for rubes", realize what was going on, scare off/intimidate the city rats, slay the shark monster, kill the Warlock (who was diabolic, evil, and a weak combatant) and then help the whales and dolphins back into the water.

It seemed really straight forward.

Until the players decided that they hated the gang more than they wanted to save the whales or kill the Warlock. They spent the next three game sessions role-playing and instigating a gang war with a rival city rat gang... then ended up killing the whales in coldblood, killing the shark, and mascaraing most of both gangs after the gang war. Then, they let the Warlock walk away after he called them ***** right to their face and beat up and nearly raped one of the female characters. They just let him beat on her, put his backpack on after he realized it wasn't going to be worth it, and then walk away like nothing has happened.

He kept all the money he had taken from the unfortunate people who had perished when they had come to help "save the whales" and just walked off. They never even learned his real name.

Whats my point?

Other than games do not always go the way you plan them. That session was SIMPLE and it should've taken a few hours. It took WEEKS. If your group is split up, if youre not having fun, if the game is taking too long. I'm sorry but that is how it goes and without context I actually agree 110% with EVERYTHING in your Game Master's e-mail.

I'm not saying you're a bad guy (in fact, believe it or not all my players acted the way they did for GOOD reasons as impossible as that sounds). So I GET not getting the full picture but I think that you were angry and your feelings were hurt. It happens, its okay, but if you are friends like you say (friends for 15 years) its worth talking through with him. I think you'll find things can be worked out.

In the alternative if you prefer to cheat, here is a key...

Being a Game Master often sucks. You have to lose sometimes (a lot of the time) and you are essentially running the game FOR your players the other friends. I RARELY have moments where I am happy to be a GM. Most of my fun as a GM (which is what I am more than I am not) is when my players do AWESOME things. So if you want more attention or more spotlight, your character has to impress your G.M.

I don't mean SUCK UP or SELL OUT. Just, try to make his story easier for him. Try to involve yourself in HIS world and HIS NPCs and peruse them BEFORE perusing yourself and your own goals. Involve the NPCs in your goals. HELP him build his world through the actions of YOUR character and you will get more attention. He WANTS to have fun too and being a G.M. is often thankless work.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I think I can actually get why your players missed the point, Akeshic. Your playing in a post-apocalyptic world where most people are living hand-to-mouth, trying to get by and many would kill to get into an industrial city-state that just has 1950's level technology fueled by oil feilds, where factories plume up smoke hovering over the city on a permanent basis. this is actually a better way to live than 90%+ of the people in Rifts.

So the water warlock was beaching dolphins and whales? Umm...Nice. Peachy. When my character sees a line of beached whales, They won't think "some bastard is killing helpless whales", they'll be thinking "HOLY MOLEY THAT'S A BIG FISH! I could feed my town for MONTHS on these things"

So yea. My character would gladly slit every dolphin and whales throat personally. She'd just then butcher them, package them, and sell them to needy towns for food. And she wouldn't feel an ounce of guilt over it.

That being said, are whales even still endangered in Rifts Earth? with rising ocean levels and basically no organized fishing with how dangerous the seas are i'd say they'd likely have bounced back just fine. More importantly, even if they are endangered? Who would know? and how many would really care? To most people, HUMANS are an endangered species now after all.

[Alrik Vas]

Yeah, I think that the email thing allows people to be way too passive-aggressive. Face-to-face is the best way to resolve issues.

[Akashic Soldier]

That is how the City Rats were thinking Niki.

Unfortunately, if you read underseas all Dolphins and Whales are intelligent ("enlightened"), can speak broken English, and have the powers of mystics. Some are more powerful psychics than mind melters.

One of the players was a human that'd been rescued by Dolphins when stranded on an island.

[Nekira Sudacne]

That is how the City Rats were thinking Niki.

Unfortunately, if you read underseas all Dolphins and Whales are intelligent ("enlightened"), can speak broken English, and have the powers of mystics. Some are more powerful psychics than mind melters.

One of the players was a human that'd been rescued by Dolphins when stranded on an island.

Did it talk to them? did it leave no doubt it was sentient? if if it just helped him out of the water to dry land, then that's in line with what dolphins do IRL, and I still can't blame him.

If he was certain that dolphins are sentient...then yea, that was kind of mean. if he still had doubts, it's harder to blame him.

Did the other characters know too?

[Noon]

I'd say the players were deliberately avoiding Akashic's point because - they aren't interested in following a point.

Sure one might want a break from repeatedly grimy, murdery character choices. Could talk with the players about having character who have constructive ambitions (like building a town, or running a company or an Inn or something) as a break from that.

I mean, if they had done exactly as planned - scared off the city rats, slayed the shark - if they had done everything exactly as was planned out before the game even began, how is that fun? The only fun I could think of is where the GM enjoys the feeling of deciding how the characters will act. That doesn't work out.

[Akashic Soldier]

I asked one of the players about it tonight and she was actually rather bummed, angry, and upset because she didnt want to kill the creatures in the first place and thought I was bringing it up because I was angry about it (which I am not). However, once that was all cleared up I learned that a lot of it was that it didn't occur to them at the time. One of the players was "extremely tired" because it was late, another said that he didn't feel right "messing with another Warlock's crap without declaring war on him first" and the last player said "I was the only one trying, the other two just stood there and let me get beat up."

So, for what its worth that is the best answer I have. I know its not really important but people were asking.

My point is that players are going to do things you don't expect them to do, I did not even consider the option of starting a City Rat war but they went, they did it, the rolls came up in their favor and thats how it went down. Ya know?

[Noon]

Yeah, but did you enjoy the character development?

Did they? Or was letting one PC get beat up not a character development moment, but more like an AFK moment - they didn't really think they were making character choices?

[Warshield73]

Being a Game Master often sucks. You have to lose sometimes (a lot of the time) and you are essentially running the game FOR your players the other friends. I RARELY have moments where I am happy to be a GM. Most of my fun as a GM (which is what I am more than I am not) is when my players do AWESOME things. So if you want more attention or more spotlight, your character has to impress your G.M.

I was reading through the posts and I was struck by how much this post resonated with me. I do disagree with part of it, I love to GM, but even with that most of my fun as a GM is when my players do something awesome. Solve a puzzle, outsmart the villain, avoid a battle, use a skill-power-spell in a way that I did not anticipate. It is just a blast when it happens.

As for players, I think it is important that if your going to game with people you be good enough friends that you voice your problems to the GM and not just behind his back. If people are just discussing these things without telling the GM I can understand how it would get to him.