Jedi v. Mindmelter

[McFacemelt]

You probably could Telemechanics the light saber off, but in all fairness I would give a chance to Jedi Mind Defense against it seeing as to how it is and extension of the Jedi himself.

Yoda's Jedi Dervish Defense > Everything but old age

[jaymz]

You probably could Telemechanics the light saber off, but in all fairness I would give a chance to Jedi Mind Defense against it seeing as to how it is and extension of the Jedi himself.

Yoda's Jedi Dervish Defense > Everything but old age

A Jedi's lightsabre is in fact essentially an extention of themselves as you put it. They actually imbue it with the force to some degree during the construction.

[Damian Magecraft]

Bah both are but pale reflections of Lensmen.

[jaymz]

or Akira.....

[say652]

Those of us who have kept up with the various (official) Books know that even Genndy Tartovsky's now-famous animated short featuring Jedi Master Mace Windu......

......gives the viewer only a taste of what a Jedi Master can do as was laid out in the novels.

For those very few of you who have been living under a rock ( ), I present to you the Animated Short from the Star Wars: Clone Wars animated series (which in my not-so-humble opinion far outshone the movie that followed it).

Mace Windu, Jedi Master (and not even the best of the best of them)

If you still think that a Mind Melter can take that on, I say good luck to your Mind Melter. And please let me know where to mail the body parts afterward.

while very impressive a Mind Melter of around 9th level could infact do all of that armed with a tri-beam sword. still think a mind melter is better than a jedi. besides Samurai Jack could do all of that without force powers and has way cooler shoes.

[jaymz]

DO you mean Clone Wars? Attack of the Clones was Episode II of the movies.....

[jaymz]

Well then I assume you mean the animated shorts. They were certainly hyperbole.....but the full fledged TV series was actually not too disparate from the movies...

[Alrik Vas]

. besides Samurai Jack could do all of that without force powers and has way cooler shoes.

This is why using anecdotes from shows is useless. it's all just fiting things into a paradigm, and that would be "just for funsies."

[Alrik Vas]

He has martial arts training, where does it mention he has chi powers?

[Nightmask]

Go watch the episodes. He learns em often, in particular go watch the samurai jack episodes where he travels into the past.

in particular, there's one episode where he learns Zen, another where he learns light body climbing.. you have to be an ignoramus to not realize that martial arts training includes CHI ABILITIES.

Not all martial arts do, some have other focuses than on Chi.

[jaymz]

Go watch the episodes. He learns em often, in particular go watch the samurai jack episodes where he travels into the past.

in particular, there's one episode where he learns Zen, another where he learns light body climbing.. you have to be an ignoramus to not realize that martial arts training includes CHI ABILITIES.

MANY martial arts do not focus on Chi.

[Damian Magecraft]

There are many episodes in season 3 /4 where he learns Chi techniques, in the episode where he learns "jump" he has mastered Light Body Technique.

that is a Technique not Chi.

[Damian Magecraft]

there's an episode where he learns all the classic Ninjas and superspies chi powers and martial arts techniques. Period.

got episode numbers for that claim?
I will agree to certain techniques and even a zanshin or two but I havent seen evidence of chi.

[Akashic Soldier]

got episode numbers for that claim?

Since Jack was taught by the same people who taught Tam Sung and various other martial arts before and throughout the series I think its safe to say, it is a principle he is familiar with.

I love Samurai Jack, the guy that worked on that series is who taught me how to storyboard using his work from that show. It was good times.

[Damian Magecraft]

There are many episodes in season 3 /4 where he learns Chi techniques, in the episode where he learns "jump" he has mastered Light Body Technique.

that is a Technique not Chi.

in ninjas and superspies, it is a Chi Technique. As it is Physically impossible to do it in real life. It's the Chi technique that lets you do wirefu without the wires.

You Do realize the diffirence betwen Chi techniques and Martial art techniques?
For example, Dragon Line Kata = Chi technique that is physical but doesn't actually have a use in combat, unless you use the rifter 3 variation where you are able to do engage in MD combat while doing so.
The List of Actual Techniques are all things physically possible, For example, Iajutsu, or Other feats of hype and intimidation.

better re-read the ability.
its a technique no chi is required.
you are mixing "real" life and game mechanics.

[Damian Magecraft]

Ok. I knew it was a chi Techique: it's called Chi Weight Control, Not Light body climbing. Silly me. ..

ok now we are getting some where.
but that is just one ability. you have yet to provide proof of him possessing as you put it

there's an episode where he learns all the classic Ninjas and superspies chi powers and martial arts techniques. Period.

all you have provided is one instance (and no episode number that corresponds with that instance).

[Alrik Vas]

I think you're missing the point, Rappanui. Yes, he's got techniques, yes he can do incredible things. Because it fits into the paradigm of wire-fu samurai action. However training bits in episodic shows don't mean much. There's not a lot of continuity being carried. For instance, I remember the old Conan the Barbarian cartoon where Conan learned to be a ninja, does that mean he was then Conan the Ninja? He certainly wasn't, carrying on from that episode anyway.

That's why i say, "just for funsies."

And all stats/levels etc being equal, i put my money on the Mind Melter, they can do so much more. Jedi do have a district advantage though in that they seem to be able to pop a use of Intuitive Combat instantly, while a Mind Melter has to concentrate for 15 or so seconds to enter a zen-like transe. That doesn't make them ultimately superior, however. I'll go with the guy who can paralyze you with a look.

[jaymz]

It really comes own to WHAT Jedi you are talking about. If you are talking movies then yeah its more even, but then again you could argue that a Ley Line Walker is more powerful than Gandalf from Lord of the Rings based on what you see him do with magic in the movies as Ley Line Walkers can throw fireballs and call lightning from the sky while Gandalf cannot since he did not do so in the movies (that i recall, it's been a few years)

However if you take the expanded universe into account, which I might add that those in charge try very hard to keep internally consistent across the board (marvel comics notwithstanding) then there is no way any mind melter has a chance against a Jedi and this is not using the two Clone wars tv series or any of the games, just the novels and Dark Horse series' of comics, both of whicch are considered official/canon as it pertains too the expanded universe.

The expanded universe Jedi powers encompass pretty much all psionics, mind bleeder powers and numerous magic spells in Palladium. Not only that their powers literally outrange Rifts powers/spells by far and exponentially in some cases, as well as having some abilities that do not seem to exist in Palladium to some degree (unless I have missed it)

[jaymz]

Then apparently you haven't read much in the way of expanded universe. I have. Plot based power would indicate inconsistency from book to book. I've read pretty much all of them. Comics as well and I can tell you from first hand knowledge that what you allege is not true. What is true is what I said in regards to the broad range of the powers available (consistently shown not just as a plot excuse as you seem to think) as well as the literal range of many of these powers as well. You wish to go nuh-uh you're welcome to do so but at least back it up. I have read the material, and jn several cases multiple times, and know the internal consistency. Your statements above, much like your statements about robotech, just show you don't seem to be as knowledgeable as you want seem.

[jaymz]

They HAVEshiwn many if the powers to he held by more than one and if you KNEW the subject matter you'd know that. Mind you you admitted yourself the limitations of your knowledge.

Therefore I won't bother arguing with because you because you'll just go "nuh-uh" anyway.

Edit - just too add. Examples are from the movies and the dark empire miniseries from what I can tell by and large. As for the legendary solo children while heroes they didn't really exhibit any more power than most other Jedi of their time but again if you actually read the material you'd know this and have admitted yourself you've only "heard" about them.

[jaymz]

I'm not refusing anything arguing with someone who just says "nuh-uh"

I know that list and I'll gladly go through it to cite as well as cite other powers that cannot be done mind melters if you like. Especially considering there are a number if force powers attainable that are more skin to spells which cannot be performed by psychics in general (mystics notwithstanding as they are magic and psychic not JUST psychic".

But why bother? You yourself have admitted to not knowing the material aside from looking up a wiki link and all you've done us essentially say "nuh-uh" so why should I bother too satisfy you?

Hell the mind melter isn't even the most powerful psychic class IN palladium anyway that would be the mind mage.