Deevils, Demons, Dragons, and limb regeneration

[Tor]

Does anyone recall if any of these classes of beings (each having a plethora of individual races under their banner) have examples of any abilities to regenerate limbs? Most seem to have pretty impressive healing factors, rivaling those of vampires who I know can regenerate them, or that of a couple major super abilities which also give it. But even if you can regenerate 1d6x1000 life points per melee I'm not sure if that means we should assume someone could regenerate a lost limb, as it may be something more than just raw damage points.

I can't seem to find anything indicating that under the base statistics, but was wondering if anyone knew an example of any of these beings who could regenerate limbs. Or if there was a way to instill them with the ability of limb regeneration.

I'm also curious if other beings like godlings or gods could do it. I imagine there's probably some god out there who can regenerate limbs (don't really want to read'm all to locate them, but if anyone recalls any names, that'd be cool) but I'm not left with the impression it's a common ability for them either. If it were, surely a guy like Tyr would have regrown his hand? Or maybe he chooses not to regrow it as a point of honor since he promised it to Fenrir?

[Nekira Sudacne]

No power to explicitly regrow limbs is given for any of them, although particuarlly ancient demons or dragons might have learned some spell that grows replacements if the GM wants, there is no text to indicate they are regrow limbs.

Even gods don't seem to naturally regrow them, although their bio-regeneration primal deific power from dragons and gods would let them restore the limbs to any being who lost them, and it can target themselves, it would be fair to assume that with Odins eye or Tyr's hand, they choose not to use this on themselves, as each body part was part of a bargin.

[Tor]

Odin is an odd bit, nothing about Yggdrasil seems to require that you sacrifice a limb, makes me wonder if it might've been some other sacrifice. I know he supposedly traded it for wisdom. Maybe he traded his eye for the magic weapon that impaled him there in a way that it couldn't be gotten back.

Maybe an evil Promethean or Temporal Raider has kept his eye alive and forces it to watch atrocities.

[Snake Eyes]

In the Hades and Dyval books there are demons and deevils that can regrow limbs and other body parts besides bio-regenerate... though its slow (24 hrs to a week)

[Tor]

Excellent, I have Dyval next to me, I think I was just looking at CB1/PF2nd, will see if it's noted somewhere...

[Grell]

In RUE, the Whip Tail Dragon is the only one that explicitly states that it can re-grow lost limbs. This seems to imply that normally, dragons do not have that capability despite the impressive bio-regenerative powers already present.

[AzathothXy]

I figure shapeshifters with bio-regeneration would have no problem regrowing limbs.

[Alrik Vas]

Under the psychic power of bio-regeneration, i believe it states that it doesn't grow back limbs, or even particularly fix broken bones or internal injuries on its own. I don't have the book in front of me, but i think you need medical attention of some sort, then the bio-regeneration speeds the process up phenominally.

[Tor]

In RUE, the Whip Tail Dragon is the only one that explicitly states that it can re-grow lost limbs. This seems to imply that normally, dragons do not have that capability despite the impressive bio-regenerative powers already present.

Interesting. Unfortunately that isn't listed among the breeds of dragon I can summon with the 'Summon Serpents' summoning circle

[Grell]

In RUE, the Whip Tail Dragon is the only one that explicitly states that it can re-grow lost limbs. This seems to imply that normally, dragons do not have that capability despite the impressive bio-regenerative powers already present.

Interesting. Unfortunately that isn't listed among the breeds of dragon I can summon with the 'Summon Serpents' summoning circle

Without the spell description handy, I would assume that if it already lists specific dragons among the available creatures to summon then it stands to reason that a Whip Tail dragon should also be included.

[drewkitty ~..~]

There is no text that specifically says that beings with just "Bio-Regeneration" as their power would regenerate a limb.

However, most people assume that the power will regrow limbs, and use it such.

(note: this is in reference to bio-regeneration outside of the HU setting.)

[Tor]

I would assume that if it already lists specific dragons among the available creatures to summon then it stands to reason that a Whip Tail dragon should also be included.

If it had listed all the existing kinds of dragon at the time I'd agree but it only lists Kukulcan and Serpent of the Wind, not the other dragons we're more familiar with like fire/ice/horny/thunder. Why the FEATHERED dragon is considered more serpentlike I'm not entirely sure.

However, most people assume that the power will regrow limbs, and use it such.

I took the time to flip through Dyval again and do some underlining and I'm thinking I'll have to disagree here. While all the species of Devil in the book have bio-regeneration, only a small amount of them list limb regeneration. Seeing as how they feel the need to state that, I'm left thinking they're the only ones who can do it. The ones I noticed...

Host:
*Cryxon (pg 34) need 96hrs to regenerate arms/legs

Lesser:
*Dire Harpies (pg 49) need 72 hours to regrow lost limbs
*Gorgons (pg 55) regenerate completely within 24 hours (just 1hr for snakes)
*Imps (pg 60) need 48 hours to regrow lost appendages

Greater:
*Beast (pg 70) need 96 hours to regrow lost limbs
*Horror (pg 72) need 48 hours for lost limbs/tongue or 24 hours for eye/tooth/tail/finger
*Serpents (pg 76) need 24 hours to regrow tail/tongue

None of the other Deevils list any abilities to regrow limbs so I'm left thinking they can't or would need magical interventions by one of the spellcasting Deevils to do so.

In many cases, beings with such limb regeneration heal fewer MDC per melee ground than other stronger Deevils who still lack limb regeneration listed under natural abilities.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Tor, the statement you quoted is about players and GMs. So why even bring up what any of the books say?

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. Let me start by saying: "As I see things/run games, you don't regrow limbs unless you have a special ability (such as listed with the Whip Tail)." I stand by that rule because otherwise races (such as the Whip Tail) who state they have that ability lose something that makes them special.

Now, with that said, there is some support to theory that Bio-Regeneration (in Rifts) lets you regrow limbs. This can be found in Rifts Conversion Book One (original, page22 or revised, page 57-58) under the heading: Bionics & the Supernatural, the second paragraph. Note: I can only find this note in Rifts, and have seen no indication of it in any other game line that I can recall.

Creatures who posses natural bio-regeneration or other heightened recuperative powers seldom have any need for artificial limbs because they can regenerate them.

There's no real hard rules listed here, but I figured worth noting. Since Rifts Conversion Book One was one of the first Rifts books released, this quote has likely influenced a fair bit of those (either directly, or through trickle down) who say all supernatural beings can regrow lost limb and done so almost from the start (of Rifts).

Anyways, not sure if that helps, but information is information. Take that for what you will. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Tor]

Tor, the statement you quoted is about players and GMs. So why even bring up what any of the books say?

I thought it was a reasonable enough assumption to make in a void but when we have examples in the same book (and section) of creatures, some of which have bio-regen alone adn some of which have inferior bio-regen AND limb regen, it makes it clear they're different things.

there is some support to theory that Bio-Regeneration (in Rifts) lets you regrow limbs. This can be found in Rifts Conversion Book One (original, page22 or revised, page 57-58) under the heading: Bionics & the Supernatural, the second paragraph. Note: I can only find this note in Rifts, and have seen no indication of it in any other game line that I can recall.

Creatures who posses natural bio-regeneration or other heightened recuperative powers seldom have any need for artificial limbs because they can regenerate them.

The impression I get from that (note the 'seldom') is that it is common for creatures with bio-regen to also have limb regen, not that it's an inherent result of it.

[Prysus]

The impression I get from that (note the 'seldom') is that it is common for creatures with bio-regen to also have limb regen, not that it's an inherent result of it.

Greetings and Salutations. I'm not going to say you're wrong (like I said, it's vague). However, I'd like to point out two things.

1: If you continue to read the paragraph/section, it mentions races (such as sub-demons) that the rule doesn't apply to. As such, this could equal the "seldom." Or could imply that it's useful while the limb regenerates. Or there's some other limiter not mentioned (because it's vague).

2: Perhaps more importantly, remember when the book came out. It was one of the first Rifts supplements. When printed (originally), the ONLY race that mentioned regrowing limbs were vampires. It wasn't listed for dragons, demons, or any other race/creature. That means either it was something that applied to most, but only one race in the whole Megaverse had it, or that it was an ability common but not listed. Listing it for races such as the Whip Tail and the races in the Hades/Dyval books didn't start until MUCH later (actually, not even sure if RCB1 Revised came out before or after they started).

Listing it for races is a recent development, and is either a change or a clarification. We don't know. I'm not saying to make such a general rule, but I think it's important to understand them, their context, and how they came about. Anyways, that's all for now. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Alrik Vas]

Brodkil get implants at times i believe, and ther minor demons (or whatever...though they may not bio-regen, can't recall). Gargoyles do regen and they list that as a reason they don't get implants (the above quoted section from CB1 includes them). Yeah, it's very this-and-that, but only on Tuesday.

[Tor]

Checking out NGR, the Brodkil had a 2d6/hour regen and Gargoyles had a 4d6/hour regen, so they only did it twice as fast (except for Gargoylites, who oddly had 6d6, which not even the Lords or Mages had... eery)

In PF2nd, the Lords/Mages suddenly became the fastest healers with 4d6/melee (how boring, that bit about Gargoylites being uber healers was neat) and everyone else with 2d6/melee.

What exactly happened to the common Gurgoyle/Gargoyle to make them heal 120 times faster on PF (a world supposedly with less magic than Rifts Earth) I'm not entirely sure. But it didn't seem to carry over to Hades since it uses the same regeneration rates that NGR did (yay for Gargoylites).

It is worth noting though that the ability to regenerate limbs was added to Hades which was absent in NGR. So perhaps they just forgot to include it under the racial stats at the time, but had it in mind due to their statements on bionics.

I do wonder how fast a Brodkil would heal on the Palladium world. I wonder what it is about that world which makes the Gargoyle race so freakin awesome at healing like ACTUAL demons are. Well except for Demon Bats, they apparently suck.