Armored Vehicle Variants

[taalismn]

actually going by the description, it is only a few features short of being something i wrote for Rifts:Scandinavia.. not sure if i should be happy i predicted the future, or annoyed my stuff won't seem as futuristic. might have to dig out some of my rejected ideas and expand the options.

the Poles did do work on a CV90 like vehicle series of their own in the 90's, named "ANDERS".. that one i do have plans to add to my EBSIS, as a Southern Cross era vehicle. the ANDERS never got interest at the time.. they chose to liscense the KTO Rosomak (an LAV-3/stryker type vehicle) instead.

Go for it. The Visitor could have saved the ANDERS project.

[Sgt Anjay]

Great stuff guys, lot of good suggestion and info.

So, this is what I've got so far for LACV-60 variants; after this I'll post up some turreted LACV-60s, then move on to M2200s and M-400s

LACV-60 standard chassis variants
Basic LACV
Armament: M-227 14.5mm HMG or Mk.25 grenade launcher
Personnel: driver and vehicle commander/gunner, up to 12 infantry w/ full gear

Anti-armor
Armament: Mk.25 grenade launcher, Mk.17 turret, 2x RL-1 man-portable rocket launcher systems
Personnel: 4 crew--commander, driver, gunner, assistant gunner

Anti-air
Armament: M-227 14.5mm HMG, Mk.18 turret, 2x RL-2 man-portable rocket launcher systems
Personnel: 4 crew--commander, driver, gunner, assistant gunner

Engineer
Armament: 14.5mm HMG or Mk.25 grenade launcher, mine plow (50 MDC, protects main body from non-command detonated mines, allows ram attack 1D4X10 MD at less than 60mph and 1D10x10 at full speed/60mph but requires 2 actions and flat, level ground or downhill slope) OR Light Obstacle Blade (small dozer blade for light earthworks and obstacle clearing, 35 MDC, allows ram attack 2D4X10 MD)
Personnel: driver and vehicle commander/gunner, up to 12 combat engineers
Comes standard with a trailer of combat engineering/sapper gear, reinforced wheels (+5 MDC), top speed 60mph.

Mortar
Armament: M-227 14.5mm HMG, 120mm mortar (damage as per any mini-missiles, minimum range: 200 meters, maximum range: in excess of 7000 meters), and either one 80mm mortar for man-portable long range support (damage as per HE or Fragmentation mini-missile, minimum range: 91 meters, maximum range: 5,900 meters ) or one 65mm mortar for man-portable close-in support (damage as per HE or Fragmentation mini-missile minimum range: 70 meters, maximum range: 3,500 m); 80mm and 65mm mortars require dismount to use.
Personnel: 5-person mortar team— driver, vehicle commander, gunner, assistant gunner and ammunition bearer.

Mortars can also launch smoke rounds, as well as illumination rounds.

Mortar Illumination Rounds: Illumination rounds are available in both standard and infrared. The timing of their fuses are set by default to go off to provide maximum illumination to an area, but can be manually adjusted. The rounds are designed so that their trajectories match that of standard rounds: if you can put an illum round over a target, you can immediately commence fire on that target with standard rounds without needing to adjust the tube. The amount and duration of illumination vary by caliber. 60mm-twilight illumination of 500 sq meter area for 25 seconds, 80mm- creates standard illumination for 1sq km for 60 seconds, 120mm- brightly illuminates 1 sq km for 60 seconds.
SPECIAL ILLUMINATION TECHNIQUES
The following are three special illumination techniques that mortars have effectively used in addition to basic illumination
a. An illumination round fired extremely high over a general area. It will reduce the overall range, size of area illuminated, and level of illumination, but will not always alert an enemy force that it is being observed while providing enough illumination to optimize the use of image intensification (night-vision optics).
b. An illumination round fired with a fuse set to burn on the ground to prevent observation beyond the flare into the shadow. This is one method of countering enemy use of night-vision and thermal devices. A friendly force could move behind the flare(s) with greater security.
c. An illumination round fired with a fuse set to burn on the ground can also be used to mark targets during day or night. Illumination rounds have an advantage over smoke as target markers during high winds.

[Sgt Anjay]

And some more

LACV-60 Electronics-Optimized Chassis variants: The electronics-optimized chassis is a version of the basic vehicle with enhancements and redundancies in power systems (alternator, wiring, batteries, etc) to support continuous operation of specialized electronic equipment.

Command Post Vehicle
Command Suite: The built-in command suite is designed to provide commanders with mobile battlefield awareness assets and facilitate positive control of assets organic to the unit. The equipment in the command suite also allows coordination between different units, enabling them to efficiently and effectively combine efforts. It is capable of being linked to up to 12 platforms and coordinating data via uplinks from other command posts or AWACS platforms, essentially acting as a hub in a command post network. This data is filtered through an extensive IFF database and combined with Allied Force Tracking as well as manually-plotted enemy forces to generate a map overlay screen to give commanders the best possible constantly updated view of the battle-space. Equipment also includes enhanced multi-net radio gear with 200 mile range. All platforms, whether conventional or mecha, linked to the command post receive a +1 to initiative, +2 to perception, +1 to strike, +3 to dodge
Armament: M-227 14.5mm HMG or Mk.25 grenade launcher
Personnel: Driver, vehicle commander/gunner, 8 person Command Post section

Ambulance
Emergency medical equipment, litter lifts
Personnel: Driver, vehicle commander, 2 medics, and accommodations for up to 4 liter patients, 6 ambulatory patients, or some combination thereof

Reconnaissance Vehicle
Reconnaissance, Surveillance, and Target Acquisition suite: The Reconnaissance Vehicle mounts an advanced sensor pod with a variety of equipment. It contains both video and still high-resolution cameras (up to 18 hours of video and thousands of pictures can be stored) with passive night-vision and infrared operation. It also contains laser range-finders and target designator systems, allowing accurate pinpointing of enemy units for allied heavy weapons and missiles. Also included are powerful radio and satellite receivers and cryptographic equipment for intercept of enemy communications.
Armament: M-227 14.5mm HMG or Mk.25 grenade launcher
Driver, vehicle commander/gunner, 1 electronic intelligence specialist, 5 dismount scouts w/full gear or 2 scouts with motorcycles and full gear

[Jefffar]

I would suggest a Direct Fire Support variant with either a single barreled derivative of the Defender's 78 mm or the Spartas' 105 mm. An IFV variant would carry less troops and use a single barreled version of the 55mm GU-11 or one of the various 20 to 30mm weapons plus a couple of SRMs.

[Sgt Anjay]

Indeed! For my versions, I would make those two variants with a full turret. I was thinking a 105mm plus a coaxial 7.62 and four mini-missiles for the Direct Fire Support, and given the example of the new CV-90 variant you posted earlier, I'll go with capacity for four dismounts or extra ammo. For the IFV, a 25mm based on the auto-cannon on the TZ-IV gun cluster plus coaxial 7.62 and 4 mini-missiles, capacity for 8.

[Jefffar]

I figure there's no reason for AFVs to not be able to mount a detachable armoured missile box that would contain the equivalent to 4 mini-missiles (ie 70mm rockets) or two short ranged missiles (ie TOW). The modularity would give added flexibility.

[glitterboy2098]

given the size of minimissles, it would be really easy to mount a box of 6-7 mini's actually. or a larger one of up to 19.

human minimissiles are about the same diameter as a Hydra Rocket.. and about half to a quarter of the length.

http://www.tactical-life.com/wp-content ... eeth-b.jpg
http://media.defenceindustrydaily.com/i ... res_lg.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNEB

example of a 19 tube Hydra pod on a ground vehicle.. http://www.armyrecognition.com/Amerique ... rmy_11.jpg

keep that in mind when you use those 6 mini MLOP's for veritechs.. they might be standard for fighters even today, but you can rig one 6 pack on the connector of a 500lb bomb, which are usually mounted in racks of 2 or more on warplanes. an F-16 could hypothetically carry 10 of the 19 missile pods, three per inner underwing hardpoint and two on the outer hardpoints. (the pods are just large enough that you couldn't fit three on the outer). so an VF-1 or Beta should easily be able to carry three times as many as the books say. (especially when you consider that a pod of 6 mini's is many many times lighter than the individual bombs they could carry on the same hardpoints) some of the old, big jets could carry 19 racks doubled up.
http://www.crazytinker.nl/persistent/ma ... ng_out.jpg
http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/535/7676379757.jpg

the 6-7 count pods are also about the size of a single robotech MRM..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... e_Bird.jpg

the 17-19 count pods aren't much bigger. call it lower LRM sized.
http://www.vhpamuseum.org/weapons/image ... ockets.jpg
http://281stahc-wolfpack.org/images/M159_Rocket_Pod.jpg

of course, the russian equivilent gets even bigger:
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infoc ... R2LEB4.jpg
(seen here employed as an artillery weapon.. it's a UB-32 missile helicopter/fighter pod of 32 S-5 55mm rockets welded to a pintle mount on a pickup truck.. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ERXsy_ZRwoQ/T ... ck_001.jpg


and one last pic.. one Macross Missile Massacre/Itano circus in storage..
http://gallery.gdatp.com/main.php?g2_vi ... alNumber=8

[taalismn]

Indeed! For my versions, I would make those two variants with a full turret. I was thinking a 105mm plus a coaxial 7.62 and four mini-missiles for the Direct Fire Support, and given the example of the new CV-90 variant you posted earlier, I'll go with capacity for four dismounts or extra ammo. For the IFV, a 25mm based on the auto-cannon on the TZ-IV gun cluster plus coaxial 7.62 and 4 mini-missiles, capacity for 8.

Easy enough to do, considering the Russian M1 'Tunguska' mounts 2xdouble-barrled 30mm cannon and 8 short range SAMs.

[Jefffar]

Tunguska (and it's Successor Pantsyr with 12 missiles) have very tall turrets though. If you are in an tank or an IFV or tank you'll want to have as low a sillhoutte as posisble, hence no huge missile racks.

I was however thinking of something akin to the DAGR pod seen here mounted in tandem with Hellfire missiles (which I would technically count as mediums just due to their size and potential range). The mounting in the picture is unarmored. An armoured mount would probably look more like the one on this Bradley Linebacker. While the stingers carried by the Bradley are technically Short Range missiles, there are exceptionally thin and lightweight ones. A similar sized pod would maybe carry up to 50% more of the guided 70mm rockets. Note that the normal variant of the bradley carries 2 short ranged anti-tank missiles in the same location in normal circumstances.

[Sgt Anjay]

I'm with Jefffar, there's a limit to what you want to put on an IFV or Tank turret, especially one for a wheeled vehicle that wasn't designed for it from the beginning.

Now, a dedicated rocket artillery platform, not meant to be up on the front line in the first place...now we're talking, at least IMO. Adding that to the list.

Also, what say you all, should damage be reduced slightly for a 1st Robotech War era version of the 105mm ammo as described under the VHT?

[Colonel Wolfe]

Also, what say you all, should damage be reduced slightly for a 1st Robotech War era version of the 105mm ammo as described under the VHT?

with some of the choices made by the RPg for damages and power levels... I would say to follow the RPG's Loljik you need to make it higher damage for the earlier tech...
but otherwise I agree that it should be a bit lower damage...

[glitterboy2098]

since the 105mm armed version was first developed during the 1st war (according to the fluff), i'd say the damage would be the same.

personally i plan to use the VHT's 105mm stats for the 125mm cannon for my EBSIS tanks. i can always just say they use slightly inferior materials in order to make the ammo cheaper or easier to build in EBSIS factories. certainly makes things easier.

[Jefffar]

105 is a reasonable analog for Russian tank guns. Russian tank guns and automatic cannon tend to be slightly underpowered for their calibre. The end result being them being roughly equal to western weapons a size or so smaller.

Ie their 23mm cannon is about equal to a western 20 mm and their 30mm is about equal to a western 25mm. Their equivalent to a 40mm Bofors is a 57mm weapon and they used a 100mm weapon to equate to western 90mm guns. They had a short lived 115mm weapon that was roughly the 105, but they then jumped to 125 which isn't as good as the 120s in the west.

[ShadowLogan]

Something to help determine if some of the Destroid/Valk. weapons can fit on conventional vehicles. These are inteneded as ESTIMATES not hard values, so one has a bit of flexibility in most cases (usually confined to the largest figure). I used a ruler, a few select screenshots and pics in the 2E RPG.

Now aside from mass, all of them seem sized well to fit on a LACV-60, M-400, or M-220x. There might be some “extensions” to the front/back/sides in a few cases, but that should not stop them from being used though obviously there will be an increase in height (many cases it would be around 1m extra)

The only two hindrances that should be a factor are power generation and mass of the system. Power Generation is easily handled if they switch out their engines for conventional gas-turbines or SLMH based (or Protoculture). Mass is going to come down to a GM call in many cases at this point.

EU-11 Gunpod (would also include its sister variants):
3m x 0.69m x 0.35m

EP-20 Gunpod: (two later dimensions are assumed to retain proportions found on EU-11 compared to the first)
2.68m x 0.62m x 0.35m

GU-11 Gunpod: (+does not include trigger/handgrip so is actually larger)
5.85m x 1.23m+ x 0.99m

HPC-155 155mm Particle Cannon (Tomahawk)
5.85m x 1.23m x 0.99m

IWS-40 40mm Ion Cannon (AGAC): (two later dimensions are assumed to retain proportions found on EU-11 compared to the first)
1.48m x 0.34m x 0.17m

M-996 Dual 78mm Cannon (Defender): (does not include ammo bins)
7.56m x 4.3m x 1.25m

MDS-H-22 430mm Missile Launcher (Phalanx):
6.24m x 3.79m x 2.5m

MDS-L-12 190mm Missile Launcher (Spartan/Tomahawk)
5.10m x 2.07m x 0.9m

MDS-M-6 178mm Missile Launcher (Tomahawk)
2.02m x 0.91m x 0.91m

MIW-20 Tri-20mm Ion Cannon (VHT): (+slightly larger as it can telescope in/out, also assumes entire shield-pod contributes)
2+m x 0.99m x 0.78m

MCR-68A1 105mm Cannon & WPW-125 125mm Particle Cannon (VHT): (No Ammo bin, collapse to size of MIW-20 and part of entire shield-pod)
4.75m x 0.99m x 0.78m

TZ-IV Gun Cluster Package (Spartan/Tomahawk): (+may be shorter, assumes runs full length of Tomahawk)
5.10m+ x 0.9m x 0.9m

[Sgt Anjay]

since the 105mm armed version was first developed during the 1st war (according to the fluff), i'd say the damage would be the same.

Right, the fluff describing the VHT as having been fielded by 2013 is one reason I'm even questioning whether there needs to be an adjustment in the damage.

But the other side of the coin is, the fluff for the cannon itself (as opposed to the VHT in general) calls it the the weapon the MCR-68A1 and describes it as the latest evolution of a European tank cannon from the mid 20th century; taken together, the lineage they're clearly referring to is the Royal Ordnance L7. It was first used on the British Centurion MBTs, and used in the U.S. for the Patton and 1st generation Abrams under the designation M68; get it, M68/MCR-68? And an auto-loading version of the M68 is currently in use on the Stryker Mobile Gun System.

So, that cannon is a weapon that has been updated and improved for decades before the SDF-1 even crashed; even on our Earth it’s still being improved and used. There’s no reason the cannon or its ammunition couldn’t have had incremental improvements between first being fielded on the VHT in 2013 and the late 2020’s setting of Southern Cross.

But of course, the only implication of an update is the fact that it’s MCR-68A1, intimating there was an MCR-68 preceding it.

Honestly, I’m really on the fence with this one.

[ShadowLogan]

But of course, the only implication of an update is the fact that it’s MCR-68A1, intimating there was an MCR-68 preceding it.

Could the A1 version be in reference to the cannon's ability to retract/collapse as part of the VHT design requirements for transformation? All indications are that the cannon can not fire when in the retracted/collapsed position (battloid mode still requires the weapon to deploy out of the housing, otherwise it is never used retracted). So the A1 from a performance perspective may not differ at all from the vanilla version, but it has that retract/collapse capacity as required by the known user platform. Such a standardized modification would likely result in a new version of the weapon.

From a (game) performance perspective missiles don't see any real change in performance for 3 generations (~40years), so the 105 explosive style shells may be no different.

[Sgt Anjay]

Fair enough, I'll go with no change in the 105mm cannon stats then.

[Jefffar]

Well the American 105mm gun is designated M-68.

So what did it do to earn the CR?

[glitterboy2098]

But of course, the only implication of an update is the fact that it’s MCR-68A1, intimating there was an MCR-68 preceding it.

Could the A1 version be in reference to the cannon's ability to retract/collapse as part of the VHT design requirements for transformation? All indications are that the cannon can not fire when in the retracted/collapsed position (battloid mode still requires the weapon to deploy out of the housing, otherwise it is never used retracted). So the A1 from a performance perspective may not differ at all from the vanilla version, but it has that retract/collapse capacity as required by the known user platform. Such a standardized modification would likely result in a new version of the weapon.

From a (game) performance perspective missiles don't see any real change in performance for 3 generations (~40years), so the 105 explosive style shells may be no different.

could just refer to a comparatively minor update to the barrel/breech/etc.. like say a change of what MDC materials the barrel is made using (since armor composition/materials science is one of the few things that does seem to improve between the 1st and 2nd war)

Well the American 105mm gun is designated M-68.

So what did it do to earn the CR?

i'm gonna guess the CR is part of a designation meaning its for a mecha.. possibly referring ot the mounting systems and probably that it uses improved (MDC) materials for extra durability.

[Sgt Anjay]

Given that the Russians and a variety of others knocked off Robotechnology to make "MDC" planes, MDC tanks etc should be old hat to the major and lesser players. Since I'm missing my Macross book, here are some suggestions for the Southern Cross's APC.

M2200 AAV-Amphibious Assault Vehicle-Add improved water speed to 16 or 20 miles an hour
Remove pulse laser cannon and replace with 25 mm autocannon from Tomahawk or 30 mm autocannon from the Drakon II, add .50 cal BMG (or 14.5 if you like Soviet Block) to the secondary mount, or a 30mm/40mm grenade launcher (with appropriate range. That 1500 ft is BS, it should be at least 3000 to 4000 ft)

M2200 Energy weapon/MK II upgrade-Upgrade power plant to SLMHV, increase endurance to a week. Increase speed by 25% Increase MDC by 25%. Replace pulse laser cannon with adapted E-40 or E-20 Gunpod. Secondary mount carries a HLW with 40 shots in a capacitor.

M2200 ambulance-Replace troop capacity with 6 or 8 bed medical transport.

M2200 Gun air defense vehicle-Mount 1 78 mm Defender autocannon or 30 mm autocannon from the older gen 1 Robotech fighters.

Nice ideas.

I hadn’t thought of focusing on the amphibious aspects of the vehicles, there’s probably a whole avenue of development we could go in that direction, and that’s a good start.

Protoculture upgrade would give a lot more juice to play with. Just end the campaign before the Invid show up
More importantly, though, at that point you’ve basically got a hybrid-electric drive vehicle, with all the benefits that entails. It could run quieter. Lack of standard combustion engine exhaust would increase its amphibious potential. And with the right batteries you can run a tracked-vehicle drive system completely off of battery power leaving the entirety of the power plant’s output available for energy weapons when needed…hmmmm. This could really be a winner.

Ambulance is definitely a no-brainer; I’d go with 6 patients top, you want enough room for medics and their gear.
For air-defense I would probably throw at least a few missiles on there even if the main armament is gun-based. A 78mm would give more power, but 30mm likely leaves you more room for ammo, so the choice would be a matter of how heavily armored your targets are and how important would combat endurance be for an ADA platform of that era.

[sirkermittsg]

given the size of minimissles, it would be really easy to mount a box of 6-7 mini's actually. or a larger one of up to 19.

human minimissiles are about the same diameter as a Hydra Rocket.. and about half to a quarter of the length.

example of a 19 tube Hydra pod on a ground vehicle.. http://www.armyrecognition.com/Amerique ... rmy_11.jpg

I had an oppertunity to see one of these pods up close and personal today at the local air museum. the whole pod was a little more then a foot in diameter and two feet long. These tubes were still about twice as long as the mini missles we see on the show.

[Sgt Anjay]

Alright, here's what I've got for turreted LACV-60 variants. It...turned out with more fluff than I was expecting. I blame you guys.


LACV-60 Armored Turret Chassis: a version of the basic vehicle sacrificing crew capacity and including minor structural reinforcements and suspension modifications to accept an armored heavy weapon turret with a high traverse. The IFV and DFS turrets are variations of a turret from a North American design team, and indeed the 105mm cannon is the latest iteration of the most ubiquitous tank weapon of the West. The Rocket Artillery turret was produced by a Russian design team in competition, and though its adoption was partially a sop to the influence of the Russian defense industry in the UEG, the effectiveness of the armaments and economy of the design are indisputable (see below).

Though partially compensated with a more powerful engine, due to both increased weight and inherently more top-heavy design turreted models have a top speed of 60mph and a 550 mile range.

Infantry Fighting Vehicle
Designed to balance increased firepower and troop capacity for heavy infantry formations.
Armament: 25mm cannon (stats as per 25mm auto-cannon on TZ-IV gun cluster, Macross Saga pg31), coaxially mounted M-225 7.62 MMG, 4 mini-missiles or 2 short-range missiles in modular pod launcher.
Personnel: Driver, gunner, commander, up to 8 light infantry

Direct Fire Support Vehicle
Designed to provide integral heavy fire for use against enemy armored units as well as bunkers and other fortifications to heavy infantry formations. The 105mm cannon is a tried and true design whose lineage dates to the mid-20th century.
Armament: 105mm cannon (stats as per MCR-68A1 cannon, Masters Saga pg96), coaxially mounted M-225 7.62 MMG, 4 mini-missiles or 2 short-range missiles in modular pod launcher.
Personnel: Driver, gunner, commander, capable of carrying either increased ammo capacity (+24 rounds) for 105mm cannon or up to 4 light infantry

Rocket Artillery Vehicle
The rocket artillery vehicle's turret is a unique design meant to do the job cheaply and well. It accomplishes both by maximizing use of battle-tested, off-the-shelf components, integrating the proven Gsh-30-4 cannon with a pair of 70mm mini-missile multiple launch ordnance pods based on those of the AH-68 Commanchero. Using parts and ammunition that are not only already in the UEDF inventory but likely used by aviation units operating in support of the LACV family of vehicles anyway, this turret provides an effective design while also minimizing the necessary logistics footprint and simplifying maintenance. Meant for SHORAD (short range air defense) against low-flying enemy aircraft as well as anti-missile work, this unit has also been proven capable of delivering a heavy punch to massed enemy ground formations if need be.
Armament: 30mm cannon (stats as per Gsh-30-4A1, Macross Saga pg92), 2x 70mm mini-missile Multiple Launch Ordnance Pods each holding 15 mini-missiles for a total of 30 mini-missiles.
Personnel: Driver, gunner, assistant gunner, commander, capable of carrying either 30 additional 70mm rockets or up to 4 light infantry

[Jefffar]

Pretty well done. Simple too, just use what's already there.

[taalismn]

Pretty well done. Simple too, just use what's already there.

Minimizes R&D and if you're using more conventional technologies or the lower end Robotech derivatives for which there's going to be a large amount of spares and spare parts, minimized logistics expense.

[Jefffar]

and a lot easier on the GM

[taalismn]

and a lot easier on the GM

So much for my fan-made APC-mounted Phantom Zone Projector, then.

[Sgt Anjay]

That kryptonian technology kills the procurement budget anyway.

On a similar note, however, while looking through CV-90 variants I saw their mortar carrier uses a new, revolutionary system called AMOS (Advanced MOrtar System). It’s a double-barrel breach-loaded 120mm mortar on an auto-loading turret system with a traverse from -3 degrees to +85, and capable of direct fire, meant for both armored vehicles and assault boats. Which, I guess, hammers home to me not to speak out of turn about mortars.

But more importantly this thing, frankly, has serious capabilities; the Scandinavians have a real breakthrough on their hands. It carries 48 rounds, and can fire as much as a 14-round burst over the course of a minute, but alter the angle and propellant so that those rounds land on target near-simultaneous. The problem is how could one stat something like that out? In game terms, the only mortar is the one on the Tomahawk TZ-VI cluster, and is statted as a mini-missile launched from a cannon. That would make something like the AMOS essentially a mini-missile cannon with 48 rounds and capable of 4 full-melee bursts that hit like a 12 missile volley after the fourth melee?

Or should I even bother?

[Jefffar]

There is a degree of abstraction (and really the 180mm Mortar should hit more like a Short or Medium missile than a mini) that needs to be dealt with to be sure. There are probably some limits on the system that you are not aware of, such as that extended burst attack only working at targets in a very narrowly defined range band well short of the maximum effective range of the weapon.

Statwise, Mini-missile warheads are a good approximation for the 120mm (though again Short missiles could work here as well). Direct Fire could be handled without major complications, the 'burst fire' capability of the weapon really doesn't apply. Firing equal to attacks with a cap of 4 per melee represents the capabilities of the weapon nicely in that regard.

The issue is if you want to use indirect fire (with or without the 'burst' mode). In that case I would, as a shorthand, use the rules for firing big guns between starships to represent the inherent inaccuracy of firing over long distances at targets you can't really see. I would divide the 'bust' mode into full melee chunks of 4 shots and roll for each chunk independently.

[taalismn]

LACV-60DEWL Series
The LACV-60DEWL(Directed Energy Weapon Laser) was an early effort to bring ASS-1-derived energy weapons to vehicles, using the LACV-60 as a basis. The first attempt, developed three years before the launch of the SDF-1, the LACV-60DEWL1 mounted the complete head assembly of a VF-1A, with all its sensors and the LLW-20 CIWS laser atop the APC’s hull. Capacitors in the main hull removed troop carrying capability, but gave the laser the ability to fire up to 500 shots before needing recharging(idling the main engines recharged the batteries at one shot per ten minutes). The -60DEWL1 was short-lived, however, as mecha sub-assemblies were deemed too valuable to spend on conventional vehicles, and the lasers proved disappointingly short-ranged to waste troop capacity on. The few -60DEWL1s produced served primarily as airfield security vehicles on Macross Island and around the Grand Cannon site before eventually being withdrawn and re-equipped to more conventional configurations(or modified to the next -DEWL mark). Advances in the technology, however, quickly led to the development of the -60DEWL2, which mounted TWO LLW-20s in a new purpose-built turret assembly. The dual-mounting allowed an inexpensive solution to rapid-firing and cooling, with the weapons typically firing in staggered order. Batteries were smaller, and while maintaining the same capacity as the -60DEWL1, were compact enough to allow for the regaining of seating for six passengers/troops. Compared to other AFVs, the -60DEWL2 still suffered from range problems compared to vehicles armed with conventional ballistic weaponry, but the ‘Duelist’, as it came to be known, was deemed a good vehicle for security operations, especially in areas where ammunition resupply posed problems.
A substantial number of -60DEWL2s were deployed by the time of the Rain of Death, and many survived in various outposts, where they soldiered on, proving particularly useful in quelling civil unrest in the wake of the Rain. The short range and low power of the laser armament proved a liability against fast-moving Zentraedi mecha, however, and the security laser-LACVs suffered many casualities in encounters. When Zentraedi malcontents began specifically targeting the Duelists to scavenge their laser armament for reconditioned and improvized mecha, the UEDF began recalling and refitting the vehicles with conventional ballistic weaponry, saving the lasers for their own mecha units. Production of further -60DEWL2s ceased until the post-Pioneer interregnum period, when the GMP briefly revived the idea after the last VF-1s still in Southern Cross service(those not already transferred to UEEF and air militia forces) were withdrawn and their spare parts stores repurposed. The GMP modified the Duelists with the addition of a Mrk. 25 grenade launcher and smoke launchers, and operated them as SWAT transports. There were also experiments with three- and four-lasered variants(-DEWL3 and -DEEWL4), but the twin-mount proved the most viable and easy to maintain. The development of more compact and readily portable ASC infantry energy weapons, and of the HL-80 Rapid-Fire Laser(that would see service on the M2200) finally led to the withdrawl and retirement of the first-generation LLW-20 laser systems, though rumors report of vehicles of the type resurfacing during the Invid occupation years, both in the hands of collaborator enforcers and the Resistance.

*Ironically, a number of post-Rain LACV-60 conversions would sport head assemblies from scavenged VF-1A’s, -J’s, and even -S’s, but the service life of these improvized ‘decapitos’ was short-lived, as the mecha head assemblies were too valuable to the Black Market to waste on vehicles.

[Sgt Anjay]

Nice! Easy to introduce, easy to picture, easy to have some fun with.

[ShadowLogan]

It carries 48 rounds, and can fire as much as a 14-round burst over the course of a minute, but alter the angle and propellant so that those rounds land on target near-simultaneous. The problem is how could one stat something like that out

I think it would consume multiple attack/actions to launch the volley similar to how some gun attacks can consume more actions (AIMED Shot, old burst rules, etc), even though the effect is only felt in one (last) action would be my approach/suggestion.

Infantry Fighting Vehicle
Designed to balance increased firepower and troop capacity for heavy infantry formations.
Armament: 25mm cannon (stats as per 25mm auto-cannon on TZ-IV gun cluster, Macross Saga pg31), coaxially mounted M-225 7.62 MMG, 4 mini-missiles or 2 short-range missiles in modular pod launcher.
Personnel: Driver, gunner, commander, up to 8 light infantry

I would like to suggest a grade (light/medium/heavy) step up from this in the use of a full turreted TZ-IV Guncluster, possibly with a MDS-L-12 or MDS-M-6 launcher integrated into the turret versions. The MDS-M-6 I would have as a flip-up launcher to help maintain as low a profile as possible, since Vertical launch is likely out. A low profile MDS-L-12 would require it to be on it's side essentially. Follow that up with a gas-turbine upgrade, and the laser in the TZ-IV should have no trouble with sustained fire rates (Destroid total output is only ~2300-2500kw on TZ-IV equipped units, all of that can't be required for the TZ-IV laser) as long as the engine can keep running. The gas-turbine engine would likely also allow higher operating speed (as it has more shp).

[Sgt Anjay]

There is a degree of abstraction (and really the 180mm Mortar should hit more like a Short or Medium missile than a mini) that needs to be dealt with to be sure. There are probably some limits on the system that you are not aware of, such as that extended burst attack only working at targets in a very narrowly defined range band well short of the maximum effective range of the weapon.

Statwise, Mini-missile warheads are a good approximation for the 120mm (though again Short missiles could work here as well). Direct Fire could be handled without major complications, the 'burst fire' capability of the weapon really doesn't apply. Firing equal to attacks with a cap of 4 per melee represents the capabilities of the weapon nicely in that regard.

The issue is if you want to use indirect fire (with or without the 'burst' mode). In that case I would, as a shorthand, use the rules for firing big guns between starships to represent the inherent inaccuracy of firing over long distances at targets you can't really see. I would divide the 'bust' mode into full melee chunks of 4 shots and roll for each chunk independently.

Hmm, yes, I am overthinking the weapon, getting too nuts and bolts. And yeah, rate-of-fire up to 4 rounds per melee works well pretty much; I would include ability for a “full-melee” burst of four rounds, but it is likely a lost cause trying to mimic the AMOS 16-round salvo.

I could be convinced to use a higher grade of missiles for 120mm mortars; mortars tend to pack a punch for their size, that’s generally part of their charm.

Using the “big gun vs. small target” rules for indirect fire is something I hadn’t thought of before, although the size-scales would need shifted of course to something like man-size, small vehicle/area, large vehicle/area/mecha. Of course, the other side of the coin is that indirect fire tends to compensate for less pinpoint accuracy with blast radius.

[Jefffar]

The big guns rules work well for artillery in my mind. Given the power such weapons should actually have, being able to roll to hit with full skill at a mecha sized target dosent just bend the realism, it also bends game balance.

As for the damaging effects of Mortars and Missiles, a 70mm rocket only weighs around 5 kg while a 160mm mortar bomb weighs around 40 kg. The 180mm on the Tomahawk is under performing to a considerable degree.

[Sgt Anjay]

It carries 48 rounds, and can fire as much as a 14-round burst over the course of a minute, but alter the angle and propellant so that those rounds land on target near-simultaneous. The problem is how could one stat something like that out

I think it would consume multiple attack/actions to launch the volley similar to how some gun attacks can consume more actions (AIMED Shot, old burst rules, etc), even though the effect is only felt in one (last) action would be my approach/suggestion.

yup, an old-style burst would be what I'm going with.

Infantry Fighting Vehicle
Designed to balance increased firepower and troop capacity for heavy infantry formations.
Armament: 25mm cannon (stats as per 25mm auto-cannon on TZ-IV gun cluster, Macross Saga pg31), coaxially mounted M-225 7.62 MMG, 4 mini-missiles or 2 short-range missiles in modular pod launcher.
Personnel: Driver, gunner, commander, up to 8 light infantry

I would like to suggest a grade (light/medium/heavy) step up from this in the use of a full turreted TZ-IV Guncluster, possibly with a MDS-L-12 or MDS-M-6 launcher integrated into the turret versions. The MDS-M-6 I would have as a flip-up launcher to help maintain as low a profile as possible, since Vertical launch is likely out. A low profile MDS-L-12 would require it to be on it's side essentially. Follow that up with a gas-turbine upgrade, and the laser in the TZ-IV should have no trouble with sustained fire rates (Destroid total output is only ~2300-2500kw on TZ-IV equipped units, all of that can't be required for the TZ-IV laser) as long as the engine can keep running. The gas-turbine engine would likely also allow higher operating speed (as it has more shp).

A TZ-IV cluster turret on a wheeled vehicle isn't really up my alley, but well within the spirit of the thing. You could probably do a whole series of mecha-weapon turrets. A turret with a 55mm tri-barreled rotary cannon or two based on the GU-11 (wasn't there a 1st ed vehicle like that?), a 78mm auto-cannon based on the Defenders', maybe even the launchers that do the Phalanx or Monster for "arms".

[taalismn]

A Phalanx's weapon drum arm could even be a towed artillery piece, akin to a supersized WW2-vintage Nebelwerfer(because, in the words of The White Board, "you just have to werf nebels"), if it can't fit atop an LACV-60(or M2200).

[Jefffar]

The MLRS puts 12 227mm tubes on a vehicle based on the Bradley (which is heavier than a LACV). Each Spartan pod has 11 double loaded 430mm tubes. So definitely not compatible.

However a smaller number of single loaded 430mm tubes certainly might work.

[Sgt Anjay]

The big guns rules work well for artillery in my mind. Given the power such weapons should actually have, being able to roll to hit with full skill at a mecha sized target dosent just bend the realism, it also bends game balance.

As for the damaging effects of Mortars and Missiles, a 70mm rocket only weighs around 5 kg while a 160mm mortar bomb weighs around 40 kg. The 180mm on the Tomahawk is under performing to a considerable degree.

Well, if you up the blast-radius of mortars and field artillery closer to real life and the power to grid-square-removal levels, it'd maybe be appropriate to give them the penalties given naval guns. Of course...the big guns on ships tend to start at 220mm and go up from there, and have power provided by ship engines, whereas field artillery is usually smaller than that, with 155mm being more typical, and power limited by the propellant inside shells. So if you up mortar and field artillery effects at that point you really need to up big-gun damage for the naval guns right across the board.

But if we're using a short-range missile to represent a 120mm mortar shell, which is where I thought we were, then no I don't think it is necessary for game balance to give them a penalty to hit mecha. A short-range missile hitting mecha isn't a game bender, let alone breaker.

I don't know that either one is all that great an option, but it is what it is.

[Sgt Anjay]

The MLRS puts 12 227mm tubes on a vehicle based on the Bradley (which is heavier than a LACV). Each Spartan pod has 11 double loaded 430mm tubes. So definitely not compatible.

However a smaller number of single loaded 430mm tubes certainly might work.

Heh, whoops, so maybe Phalanx and Monster arms are right out. My bad. So then stick to the MDS-L-12, MDS-M-6, and such for missiles.

[Jefffar]

The big guns rules work well for artillery in my mind. Given the power such weapons should actually have, being able to roll to hit with full skill at a mecha sized target dosent just bend the realism, it also bends game balance.

As for the damaging effects of Mortars and Missiles, a 70mm rocket only weighs around 5 kg while a 160mm mortar bomb weighs around 40 kg. The 180mm on the Tomahawk is under performing to a considerable degree.

Well, if you up the blast-radius of mortars and field artillery closer to real life and the power to grid-square-removal levels, it'd maybe be appropriate to give them the penalties given naval guns. Of course...the big guns on ships tend to start at 220mm and go up from there, and have power provided by ship engines, whereas field artillery is usually smaller than that, with 155mm being more typical, and power limited by the propellant inside shells. So if you up mortar and field artillery effects at that point you really need to up big-gun damage for the naval guns right across the board.

But if we're using a short-range missile to represent a 120mm mortar shell, which is where I thought we were, then no I don't think it is necessary for game balance to give them a penalty to hit mecha. A short-range missile hitting mecha isn't a game bender, let alone breaker.

I don't know that either one is all that great an option, but it is what it is.

Well Indirect fire is a key element for that big guns penalty I mentioned. Being able to shoot at something while not being able to be shot back at is a big advantage. It also makes sense that indirect weapons are less accurate than direct weapons (barring the effects of precision guidance).

Still, the big guns on ships are probably under-performing as well. But this is irrelevant in most games as artillery really shouldn't be in the hands of the players.

[Sgt Anjay]

Yeah, true field artillery isn’t really a very PC kind of thing, though the Monster destroid is rather a fly in that ointment.

And I don't disagree at all indirect fire weapons are less accurate. The issue is that method of making them less accurate also makes them ineffective, and I don’t agree indirect fire is ineffective. It’s not an advantage to fire at someone that can’t see you if you’re never going to hurt them thanks to the penalties anyway.

With the big ship guns, it doesn't matter they're not effective against mecha because their purpose is to blast other ships, which are targets against which they don't have a penalty. If field artillery can't hit anything, though, it becomes a non-entity on the battlefield...and field artillery is many things, but a non-entity isn’t one of them.

Of course, in real-life field artillery doesn't need to score direct hits, unlike for example a tank; a 155mm shell, for example, has a kill radius of 50 meters and a casualty radius out to 100 meters. And, of course, they typically fire in batteries to deliver barrages to an area rather than aim for an individual target anyway; that none of your shells actually hit any individual enemy vehicles is irrelevant when the blast area of a barrage covered half a square kilometer with high-explosives and shrapnel.

So I guess what I’m saying is, if you’re going to mimic the fact that field artillery doesn’t generally score direct hits, you need to mimic the fact that they don’t need to because they’re actually trying to hit things with the blast area of their rounds, though that blast area is probably doing less damage than that direct hit would have. Now, I wouldn’t necessarily bother mimicking either one as the game as written doesn’t, and it adds another layer of complexity. Plus like you said, it’s not generally a thing for PCs. But if I were, I would mimic both and not just the one.

[glitterboy2098]

The MLRS puts 12 227mm tubes on a vehicle based on the Bradley (which is heavier than a LACV). Each Spartan pod has 11 double loaded 430mm tubes. So definitely not compatible.

However a smaller number of single loaded 430mm tubes certainly might work.

the M270 MLRS vehicle can mount one MGM-140 ATACMS in each of the missile slots (which normally would carry a single pod of six 227mm rockets) the ATACMS is a 610mm missile, so i could see new pods with 2-3 LRM's making sense in post-1999 robotech. the modular nature of the MLRS weapon system would make such stopgap systems be pretty viable.

[Sgt Anjay]

Alright, I will post the stuff I've written up for M2200 Janissary variants stripped down somewhat and in multiple posts to (try to) avoid tl;dr. Between the ideas you guys have thrown about and my own proclivities in this area I could probably write a whole Rifter article just on the Janissary. And I would, if I could. I tend to get very fluffy when it comes to Masters Saga. But can't, more's the pity.


M2200 JANISSARY
Major Variants (stats found in Masters Saga Sourcebook, pgs. 145-148)
M2201 Infantry Fighting Vehicle
M2202 Cavalry Fighting Vehicle*
*(I would add the Battloid Sensor Suite (pg.105, items 1-10), as well as a Laser Distancer and Range Finder like that on the FRB-7 Cyclops (pg. 111); the other option is to propose a dedicated recon/target acquisition model that is just the CFV with the sensors instead of the "extra communications equipment", but simply integrating the sensors into the CFV makes more sense to me)
M2204 Commanders Vehicle
M2205 Engineer Support Vehicle
M2206 Medevac Vehicle

Minor Variants (part 1)

M2201L “Sea Janissary” Amphibious Landing Vehicle
More a modification kit than a stand-alone variant, the L model of the M2201, also called the “Sea Janissary” or “Sea-J”, is a Janissary IFV refurbished to improve its amphibious characteristics so that it can perform in open waters. It also includes the 105mm demolition cannon of the M2205 Engineer Support Vehicle rather than the standard laser cannon to help clear obstacles during landings. The refurbishments include an elongated bow for increased displacement and stability, trim vanes, improved seals, high-performance pump-jets, a special cover system for the air inlet/outlets, and extensions on the exhaust. This gives them the ability to be dropped offshore and accompany battloids and power armor on major sea-to-shore operations. It also allows a light infantry team to be inserted on smaller operations with heavier support and equipment and/or to be extracted by an armored vehicle.
Armament: L8A1 105mm Demolition Gun, auxiliary heavy weapon mount
Personnel: driver, gunner, vehicle commander, up to 8 troops in full gear
Performance: The “Sea-J” can self-deploy from an amphibious assault ship 12 miles from shore with a full load of infantry. It's water propulsion improvements allow it to travel 10mph through seas with waves up to three feet.

M2203 Mortar System Vehicle
Armament: 120mm mortar (damage as per any mini-missiles, minimum range: 200 meters, maximum range: 3200 meters), auxiliary heavy weapon mount, and either one 80mm mortar for man-portable long range support (damage as per HE or Fragmentation mini-missile, minimum range: 91 meters, maximum range: 3,200 meters ) or one 65mm mortar for man-portable close-in support (damage as per HE or Fragmentation mini-missile minimum range: 70 meters, maximum range: 1,600 m); 80mm and 65mm mortars require dismount to use.
Personnel: 5-person mortar team— driver, vehicle commander, gunner, assistant gunner and ammunition bearer.

M2203A1 Advanced Mortar System (AMOS) Vehicle
Armament: AMOS 120mm double-barrel turret (damage as per any short-range missile, minimum range: 50 meters, maximum range: 3200 meters, ROF: 4 per melee or 4rnd melee burst, 48 round magazine), auxiliary heavy weapon mount
Personnel: 4-person mortar team— driver, vehicle commander, gunner, assistant gunner
*(I decided to re-scale the mortar ranges to be more in-line with other weapons in the game, to avoid a pressing need for dedicated indirect-fire rules and overhaul of big guns in general; I would also use these ranges for the mortars on my LACV-60 mortar variant for the same reason. Or maybe not; I haven't had a chance to playtest any of these)

[taalismn]

I'm going to have to go over the books and find a good, long-ranged, laser system with a convenient barrel length that could be mounted as an air defense(anti-mecha/anti-missile) weapon for a dedicated Janissary M2200 chassis air-defense variant. Big generators and coolant/SLMH fuel to power a decent rapid-fire laser system.
Something with an all-around sky traverse, or something looking like the old 'Duster'(but with better range) or the old Sgt. York ADV.
If nothing already in inventory, original work maybe(still in experimental stage at beginning of war or deployed off-camera).
Naturally, because the Masters weren't big on missiles, the AM-capability of the ADF variant really doesn't come into play, but they(the ASC) were readying for Zentraedi-style forces.


And yes, I too, am happy to produce mountains of speculative/service history fluff.

[Sgt Anjay]

"Long" range for anti-mecha lasers seems to top out around 4500ft, though I'd definitely be interested if you can find an exception. The real longer range weapons seem to mostly be particle cannon.

[Jefffar]

The various space ships have defensive lasers of varyin size including 40mm weapons. The cited M42 had two 40mm auto-cannons.

[ShadowLogan]

"Long" range for anti-mecha lasers seems to top out around 4500ft, though I'd definitely be interested if you can find an exception. The real longer range weapons seem to mostly be particle cannon.

NOT counting 1E's RaiderXs & MAC & Lancer2 examples (5-10mile), and limiting to 2E you have the HLC-90 retractable laser cannons on the UEEF Bioroid Interceptor: 6,000ft (x2 in space), with some respectable stopping power (giving Palladium's damage assignments). It's a post TRM design, but there could be precursors that predate it with similar performance (Alpha/AGAC/VF-1 jet lasers are individually fundamentally unchanged over 30years).

[taalismn]

M-2221 DEWC Conversions
(aka ‘Dewcees’)
The M-2221 DEWC series was an effort to use the M2200 Janissary as the basis of an energy weapon-based air defense unit for the protection of armored formations and smaller communities. Though the Mark X Defender Destroid had proven itself a formidable air defense platform during the Reconstruction, the first-generation mecha proved too expensive and cumbersome to easily deploy in the numbers required to cover the many dispersed small communities and outposts established on Earth post-Rain of Death. Citing the success of refitted non-mecha units such as the Russian ZSU-23 and Gepard, then-Brigader General Leonard pushed for greater emphasis on lower cost conventional units that could be deployed to protect those regions outside the air defense umbrella of the more densely populated zones. This in turn led to a variety of LAVC-60 and M2220 variants(those being the two most common vehicles in the UEDF at the time) sporting all manner of air defense weapons systems, mainly projectile types.

The M-2221 DEWCs sought to capitalize on the range, power, and speed of energy weapons to produce vehicles capable of low altitude air defense. Given the Zentraedi perchance for missile bombardment and teh anticipation of attacks from either Zentraedi remanent forces or Tirolian forces using similar tactics, anti-missile capability was also a consideration. The general configuration would consist of the chassis of an M2200 with a top-mounted casemate hull holding SLMH-powered generators and topped by an energy weapon turret capable of unobstructed skysweep. The SLMH tankage would also serve as a cooling system for the anticipated heatspikes associated with the energy weapons firing. Weapons control would be done by a battery command vehicle such as the M2204, although tactical operations could be carried out by each vehicles’ crew using a basic onboard sensor system cribbed from earlier air defense vehicle systems.

The M2221DEWL was the first attempt, mounting a laser, which was seen as the most promising and easily produced weapons system. Initial efforts to use stock laser systems(such as the EP-20) proved disappointing, as the range was not sufficient to strike any but the lowest flying targets. The DEWL2 variant sported an improved adaptive laser mirror assembly and more refined lasing elements to TRIPLE the range to something more suitable, although at the cost of having a larger and more obvious turret assembly that was vulnerable to enemy fire. The DEWL2 would find acceptance in the ranks as the DEW-ADATS of choice, although the finicky focal systems required constant maintenance to keep working.

The M2221DEWRPW was a more radical weapon that attempted to use an adapted version of the Zentraedi PZ-32 Rotary Particle Cannon as an AAA weapon. Range was better than the first-gen EP-20 and the mounting was sturdier, so the ‘RipTree’(a corruption of ‘rapid-fire triple barrel’) went into service alongside the M2221DEWL2. The DEWRPW was also lower maintenance, which endeared it to its operators.

Perhaps the most radical of the M2221 series was the M2221DEWHP ‘Heavy Plasma’, which featured a cutdown version of the plasma cannon seen on the first generation Lancer-II space fighter. A ‘snub barrel’ variant of the weapon was mounted in a large turret atop the M2200 chassis, similar to the pre-Rain Italian Otomatic 76mm AA gun system, and had a formidable range, in atmosphere, of over five miles. However, the added equipment made the DEWHP fairly top-heavy and unwieldy, so some effort was made to lighten the load on the basic chassis, by attaching a second stripped-down M2200 chassis as a powered trailer, similar to Scandanavia Sector’s Bv-206 series tractors, carrying additional coolant/fuel. This made the ‘Heavy Plasma’ harder to quickly air transport and the vehicles were rarely deployed with the global rapid response defense forces as was planned for the DEW-ADATS vehicles. Despite this, the ‘Heavy Burners’ proved very popular with the Tactical Corps’ air defense regiments which would deploy multiple batteries of the weapons around Momument City and other locations, the plasma weapons’ great range and power placing them high on the list of wanted combat equipment for ASC garrisons.

Compared to other M2200 variants, the M2221 series was not produced in as great numbers as might be desired, and their deployment would not go according to original plan. The M222DEWL2 and DEWRPW would see the greatest numbers produced and deployed with Tactical Corps and Civil Defense Units, while favoritism and politics would see the
DEWHP assigned to protecting major cities and political districts, sited in largely static batteries rather than the mobile formations originally envisioned.

During the Second Robotech War, the M2221s fared no better and no worse than any other ASC vehicle, although the Masters surprised the Southern Cross by using faster and lower altitude Hovercraft attacks and eschewed the use of missiles. Trapped in their entrenched garrison positions around their garrison cities, the DEWHP battalions suffered the most, drawing fire from enemy assault craft strikes, so much so that few of the ‘Heavy Burners’ survived the War. The subsequent Invid Invasion saw the M2221 series survivors heavily deployed as ‘fly swatters’ until a lack of SLMH and spare parts forced most of them to be abandoned. Some would later be reactivated with Protoculture powerplants, but most Resistance units prefered to keep their surviving ADATS vehicles in ‘Protoculture-clean’ state after observing the Invid fury against Protoculture-powered equipment.

[Sgt Anjay]

The Lancer! Of course! Oh, I'm using that. That's getting used. There's some using going to be going on.

[taalismn]

The Lancer! Of course! Oh, I'm using that. That's getting used. There's some using going to be going on.

It's a great weapon, and it would explain a lot of the generic 'battleship guns' seen in heavy combat barrages during Southern Cross

[Sgt Anjay]

Minor Variants (part 2)

M2208 Cargo Carrier Vehicle
The M2208 CCV is a version of the Janissary chassis with a roofless modular cargo space rather than an armored troop compartment in the back. It has attachments for hard shell top or canvas soft-top to cover the cargo space if desired. The cargo space comes with fold-down bench seats along the sides by default, and a host of specialized cargo modules exist. Examples include:
·Ammunition carrier module (easy-load/unload rollers and racks for thousands of small or high-caliber rounds, 200 small mini-missiles or mortar rounds, or 100 rounds 105mm to 120mm)
·Armorer support module w/ mix-and-match weapon racks (handgun, rifle, heavy weapon), weapon maintenance tools, and e-clip charger stations (a feature which made this module highly desired by resistance fighters post-Invid)
·Fuel modules, with models for both petrol or more volatile materials such as SLMH
·Water tank module
Armament: auxiliary heavy weapon mount
Personnel: driver, assistant driver; can carry up to 18 personnel or 12 troops w/ full gear when configured for general cargo.
(a handy variant for mission objectives, escort/rescue, and such. And who doesn't want in-the-field e-clip chargers??)

M2209 Anti-Armor/Air Defense Vehicle Mk.I (AAr/ADV Mk I) “Aardvark”
The M2209 AAr/ADV Mk.I (quickly dubbed “Aardvark I”) variant was a basic stop-gap measure to field as many units capable of defending against both low-flying Zentraedi Male Power Armor or Female Power Armor missile salvos in as short a time as possible. It utilizes a vehicle-mounted version of the Defender destroid’s respected double-barreled 78mm cannon. As that cannon had proved an extremely versatile rapid-fire weapon, it was also hoped the use of that cannon would allow the vehicle to defend itself against armored ground vehicles and mecha. Mated to the sturdy Janissary chassis, it proved an able combatant. As a stop-gap, though, it was rushed into production and the power of the cannon limited it's ability to move while shooting. Indeed, an attempt at a larger turret with a quad-barrel configuration (the Mk. II) proved too unstable while firing and dangerously top-heavy in any case. The Mk. I, however, was well-liked, especially by older crews familiar with the maintenance and operation of the technology behind these models. It was, however, ammunition hungry, and only a modest number were produced before large-scale production of ammunition for the Defender destroid wound down and made this variant less attractive as an option.
Armament: M-996 78mm double-barrel cannon (Macross Saga pg.36), auxiliary heavy weapon mount
Personnel: driver, gunner, vehicle commander

M2210 “Zippo Jan” Armored Flamethrower Vehicle
As Zentraedi rebel activity intensified, greater numbers of previously micronized Zentraedi joined the Malcontents. Ambushes and guerrilla action by light infantry, both human and giant sized, became a greater issue. These were directed not just at combat forces, but often supply convoys and humanitarian aid stations. When the Malcontents acquired the capability to resize, increases in the number of giant infantry involved impelled development to counteract them in an economical fashion. This led to the fielding of the M2210 Armored Flamethrower Vehicle, for which several older veterans popularized the name “Zippo Jan”. Built to keep infantry, and in particular giant Zentraedi infantry, at arm's length, they were armed with a high-pressure flamethrower coupled with a rapid-fire laser. This combination was used to maximize both damage and intimidation, and since the laser required smaller capacitors than the standard laser cannon, the majority of the typical Janissary's space was dedicated to fuel for the flamethrower. A niche vehicle, and one whose main weapon could at times be a political liability due to its perceived gruesomeness, it was not produced in great numbers. Still, it performs its mission exceedingly well, and is also useful for flushing infantry out of entrenched positions, and so was never fully retired even after the large-scale threat of Zentraedi infantry on Earth abated.

Ironically, a version of these vehicles ended up in Civil Defense Unit use, the laser removed and the flamethrower replaced with a water cannon. They were mainly used for fire-fighting, though they were occasionally pressed into service for riot control use. In that latter role, the water cannon proved nearly as politically sensitive as the flamethrower.

Armament: M10-10 Flamethrower with coaxial 14.5mm rapid-fire laser (stats as per weapons on TZ-IV gun cluster, Macross Saga pg.31; double the payload for the flamethrower).
When used for riot control, the water cannon version does 1D6 S.D. and has a 80% chance to knockdown anyone human size in the area of effect, 20% against Zentraedi (used to knock their feet out from under them).
Personnel: driver, gunner, vehicle commander