Arcanum and Tome Grotesque for Beyond the Supernatural

cesuhr · Unread post by **cesuhr** » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:23 pm

BTS Arcanum and BTS Tome Grotesque

When are these two books coming out? Some of us have waited for 5 years or more. Can they be released on DriveThru RPG and later printed by Palladium books? What's the hold up?

An Avid player

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:01 pm

I understand your concern about the delay of these two books. As a customer of Palladium myself I also am eager to get my hands on these works.

Palladium went through a number of challenges starting around the same time as Beyond the Supernatural 2 was released which resulted in these books being pushed far back on Palladium's list of priorities. There are plenty of threads around the forums talking about those issues and a bit of research should provide the details you are looking for.

My current understanding is the books are not in a format ready for release so they are unable to put them out in either hard-copy or electronic format for the time being. I do hope we see them soon.

tmikesecrist3 · Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:36 pm

Last I heard there was talk about them coming out some time this year, I do not rember when they said but I have heard nothing new. and up date was nice but lumra was targeted for first quarter, and here we are its nearly march so... I do not know if KS checks the firms but it might be a good idea to start writing letters and emails to KS about what we want to see. I do understand why it was back burner Rifts and pf have always been the two biggest money maker, for PB and with the trouble around the Reliese of bts 2 he really could not afford to take a gamble with it. But that being said was the plan not to Relise them like a month after the core book? if that was the case would it not be basicly ready to go? I find it furstating that every thing seems to be being done for PF rifts or Robotech. and dont get me wrong I love robotech it was my first rpg after all.

The lack of magic is the main thing putting my games on hold. because I can not figer out how to handle magic with threat level. I do have some ideas but I would realy rather not have to do a compleat rewright of my charcter once the roles come out... We do need something even if its not the full book. even if its just some converson notes to bring something from outher games. or the braing stuff form first edition... that would be a good rifter peace I think

mrloucifer · Unread post by **mrloucifer** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:15 pm

magic is not required to play this game. I've played it happily since 2005 without magic rules. Give it a try!

tmikesecrist3 · Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:40 am

its just that magic has long been a major thiem of many of my bts games as well as the price of power

Tearstone · Unread post by **Tearstone** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:18 pm

Maybe we could start a "Help It Grow/Make It Live" donation setup for BTS Arcanum & BTS Tome Grotesque books. I'm very tired of not having them, and Pre-Ordering just isn't gonna do it. I guess it could be considered a bribe for Kevin and crew to get it done, as well make it possible to get those that work on it paid, get it printed, and out for distribution.

The players have been asking for this work to be done for a long time, and we're tired of not having it done.

Anybody else here think that maybe we players need to take a more pro-active approach on it? Put some pressure and interest out there? I do.

gaaahhhh · Unread post by **gaaahhhh** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:53 pm

Tearstone wrote:Maybe we could start a "Help It Grow/Make It Live" donation setup for BTS Arcanum & BTS Tome Grotesque books. I'm very tired of not having them, and Pre-Ordering just isn't gonna do it. I guess it could be considered a bribe for Kevin and crew to get it done, as well make it possible to get those that work on it paid, get it printed, and out for distribution.

The players have been asking for this work to be done for a long time, and we're tired of not having it done.

Anybody else here think that maybe we players need to take a more pro-active approach on it? Put some pressure and interest out there? I do.

I would pitch in for this.

Lord Z · Unread post by **Lord Z** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:33 pm

I would not pitch in. The money has never seemed to be the bottleneck for the BtS line. The bottleneck is in prioritization. Kevin simply feels that his time is better spent on other projects. Even if someone else did write them, Kevin won't publish it unless he personally edits it, and it the editing happens the way it did with Dead Reign, then Kevin might as well just write the whole thing from scratch, and it will take the same amount of his time.

What do I know? I am just another guy with the same outside perspective as any of you guys. If you think that pressuring PB or writing it even yourselves will work, more power to you.

Tearstone · Unread post by **Tearstone** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:54 pm

Well the idea is to change Kevin's mind that it should be a low priority.

tmikesecrist3 · Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:02 pm

That is why I said maybe send emails or something to let Kevin now what we the gamers and paying customers want. I dont think he would get it to use if he knew how many of us want the books out here. after all we give hem or money for the products we wont. other wise why are we wasting our time? Me I would say get Arcanum out first cause there are a lot of monsters out there already

gaby · Unread post by **gaby** » Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:22 am

I also want Arcanum to be the Next BtS,s Book.
It will set up how Magic wokrs in BtS and maybe have a few Adventures that show examples of an magic pcc.

Lord Z · Unread post by **Lord Z** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:45 am

In this week's newsletter, Kevin wrote...

Will there be future Megaverse Insider offers? Yes, but after consulting with you, our fans and customers, we will probably limit them to once in a while and for major releases like Rifts® Megaverse in Flames, and maybe Rifts® Northern Gun and/or the two Beyond the Supernatural books, and special projects like a Palladium Fantasy® RPG Ultimate Edition (something I’ve been secretly kicking around for several years – but no promises). I plan to take our cue from YOU, so please let us know what YOU would like to see from us by way of Megaverse Insider offers and new products.

That seems like a green flag, Tearstone. Have fun with your promotional campaign.

Tearstone · Unread post by **Tearstone** » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:15 am

Interesting!

MurderCityDisciple · Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:52 am

When I read that TG and BA were going to finally get published in 2013 I got majorly stoked and started writing a couple of Rifter articles...but as reality set in, I converted them to Call of Cthulhu and am going to send them to an online 'zine instead.

Anyway...do you think the BTS books are ever going to see the light of day?

They were supposed to be out in 2004...it's gonna be 10 years soon.

If you ask me, the line is basically dead. Which is a shame, with all the ghost movies and paranormal tv shows out there now, I'm sure it would've interested some new folks.

With all the backlog of multiple Rifts books, Robotech and other stuff...I think it's time to give up hope. At least for me it is.

Towel officially thrown in. :ugh:

Cybermancer · Unread post by **Cybermancer** » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:29 pm

The BtS2 line will never truly be dead so long as there are new threads lamenting the lack of Tome Grotesque and Beyond Arcanum being posted every six months or so.

gaby · Unread post by **gaby** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:18 am

Yes,keep pushing do not give up.
We need Tome Grotesque for Monsters and Beyond Arcanum for Magic,I hope One may be made next year.

mrloucifer · Unread post by **mrloucifer** » Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:51 pm

I remain hopeful!

Cybermancer · Unread post by **Cybermancer** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:40 am

*Notes your location.*

mrloucifer · Unread post by **mrloucifer** » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:47 pm

*Laughs Out Loud!*

mrloucifer · Unread post by **mrloucifer** » Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:21 pm

Just putting out there that the latest post brought up that BTS material is expect next year... just sayin. I know you've heard it before, but anyway I see this, its not dead.

thorr-kan · Unread post by **thorr-kan** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:58 pm

Meanwhile, use Monsters & Animals for PFRPG 2ED and use Through the Glass Darkly for Nightbane. Problem solved!

Damian Magecraft · Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:07 pm

thorr-kan wrote:Meanwhile, use Monsters & Animals for PFRPG 2ED and use Through the Glass Darkly for Nightbane. Problem solved!

Not quite...
NB doesn't take into account how magic would be affected by threat level.

gaby · Unread post by **gaby** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:52 am

WE Need to keep hope and BtS alive.
If I have to pic which book will come out in 2014,I pic Arcanum,we need to known how magic wokrs in BtS.

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:04 pm

I would prefer Tome, because in a game dealing with supernatural monsters we need more supernatural monsters to deal with.

thorr-kan · Unread post by **thorr-kan** » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:59 pm

Damian Magecraft wrote:
thorr-kan wrote:Meanwhile, use Monsters & Animals for PFRPG 2ED and use Through the Glass Darkly for Nightbane. Problem solved!

Not quite...
NB doesn't take into account how magic would be affected by threat level.

There's currently no proof that magic will be affected by threat level.

(Of course it will be, but until we've got a book in front of us, we don't KNOW that.)

gaby · Unread post by **gaby** » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:59 am

Well if they do Tome Grotesque frist,I hope they add all the Monsters from Rifter.Ther cool.

Hendrik · Unread post by **Hendrik** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:18 am

thorr-kan wrote:There's currently no proof that magic will be affected by threat level. (Of course it will be, but until we've got a book in front of us, we don't KNOW that.)

Magic is effected by threat level according to the BtS-II rules as they already are.

BtS-II Core Book, pages 30-31 wrote:"In the presence of serious danger, particularly in the presence of magic or the supernatural, the character's powers increase expotentially. ... close proximity to the supernatural or magic feeds or fuels the ISP of pyschics and the PPE of spell casters. ... ISP (and PPE for spell casters) also increase at places of power, like Stonehendge, ley lines or similar locales."

Cheers,
Hendrik

thorr-kan · Unread post by **thorr-kan** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:22 pm

Hendrik wrote:Magic is effected by threat level according to the BtS-II rules as they already are.

BtS-II Core Book, pages 30-31 wrote:"In the presence of serious danger, particularly in the presence of magic or the supernatural, the character's powers increase expotentially. ... close proximity to the supernatural or magic feeds or fuels the ISP of pyschics and the PPE of spell casters. ... ISP (and PPE for spell casters) also increase at places of power, like Stonehendge, ley lines or similar locales."

That's weird, because my copy doesn't say that. It just lists the ISP.

Hendrik · Unread post by **Hendrik** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:00 pm

Weird, but then it is a horror & mystery game (jk).

Seriously, perhaps you have overlooked it. Many do, I sure did on my first readings. I have the first printing soft and hardcover. I will check my other copies. It is "hidden" in the whole section on threat and power.

Jefffar · Unread post by **Jefffar** » Wed Nov 06, 2013 8:40 pm

I recall reports from a Palladium Open House of folks who got to play some of the pre-release rules for what was to be Tome Arcana reporting variable PPE as well.

mrloucifer · Unread post by **mrloucifer** » Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:02 am

Jefffar wrote:I recall reports from a Palladium Open House of folks who got to play some of the pre-release rules for what was to be Tome Arcana reporting variable PPE as well.

You are correct Jafffar. One of the blurbs worth quoting is this:

Aye, indeed it did feel like a sneak peak. Playing an Arcanist, I wasn't familiar with some of my spells, being as the magic book doesn't exist yet. Maybe BTS1 players will know these, but a couple spells I didn't recognize were Impression, Mystic Eye, and Read the Mystical. Impression turns out to be sort of like a magic version of Object Read. Mystic Eye is a form of See the Invisible. Read the Mystical allows the caster to read and understand magic.

Also, I had a magic form of Meditation, and had an ability called Demon Strike that seems a bit like a Demon Death Blow. 8 P.P.E. I believe, for a punch that can strike the supernatural doing 3D6 damage, or adding 3D6 damage to a melee weapon hit. I had 28 P.P.E. prior to multipliers, which were similar in nature and size to the I.S.P. multipliers.

Would you like to know more? click this link to read that report

Hendrik · Unread post by **Hendrik** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:08 am

mrloucifer wrote:Would you like to know more? click this link to read that report

You say the nicest things, Mrloucifer :-)

gaby · Unread post by **gaby** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:17 am

I still like Arcanum to come out first,thers Monsters in Other setting books you can use.
Dead regin are close to having 5 books now.
Why is BTS so hard for them?
I hope after NG2 and Megaverse in flames come out they will focus on BtS.

thorr-kan · Unread post by **thorr-kan** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:53 pm

Hendrik wrote:Weird, but then it is a horror & mystery game (jk).

It's not there. BUT...comparison to my copy and a friend's copy shows some other discrepancies as well. *His* has the passage, so I'll concede that and admit Tome will likely include variable PPE for magic casters. (I'd like it better if it DIDN'T.)

Weird is right!

Hendrik · Unread post by **Hendrik** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:14 am

Palladium is rarely changing anything from printing to printing, so this is actually very weird, but there you go. I have talked to Kevin about ISP/PPE, as I find the ISP/PPE rule is a stroke of genius for the systen, and I am pretty sure it will stay this way for Arcanum (well, I hope). There is just something about the symmetry and the simplicity of the rule that I like - the rule gives a lot of balance and ability in the right moments to the "magical" in BtS (when I say magical, I usually mean all non scientific phenomena like spells and psi - I always held the discussion about both being different as pretty superfluous even if they work differently). Re PPE: I understand, though, that you would rather have it the other way.

Are you playing with magic at the moment, Thorr?

What is your experience with keeping magic low key?

Or, do you boost magic users by giving them a higher PPE reservoir at the beginning (and per level)?

If you do, does it change the power balance (I mean, if mages function at any time with or without the supernatural/threats present does that not make them much more versatile than the psi users)?

I am very interested to hear how you handle it.

thorr-kan · Unread post by **thorr-kan** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:26 pm

There are other printing problems with mine when compared to a friend's copy. I picked it up second hand, so I think it's a printer's error. No worries.

Honestly, I haven't played a Palladium game since Robotech. In high school. In the 80s. So my theories are just that. With a smidgeon of d20 game design theory.

ETA: I feel the "exploding ISP" in 2ED was a design mistake. I prefer the lower ISP/PPE feeling of N&SS and BTS 1ED; it's just more...right to me somehow.

I realize that puts me in a very small minority.

mrloucifer · Unread post by **mrloucifer** » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:37 pm

thorr-kan wrote:I realize that puts me in a very small minority.

No shame in that. While I'm a fan of the new ISP/PPE system, I understand and accept that its not for you.

thorr-kan · Unread post by **thorr-kan** » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:07 pm

mrloucifer wrote:No shame in that. While I'm a fan of the new ISP/PPE system, I understand and accept that its not for you.

You don't understand! It's not right! It's not right for ANYBODY! It must be expugn....
STOMP STOMP STOMP.
Excuse me.
STOMP.
Sorry about that. Right; different strokes for different folks. No harm in that.

Hendrik · Unread post by **Hendrik** » Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:09 am

I think the ISP/PPE rule is pure genius, simple, elegant, and giving a lot of flair. However, one of the cool things about the rule is that it is also easy to remove for anyone so inclined. The follow-up question then would be: would ISP/PPE then be increased for the classes? Would psi and magic function normally even without the supernatural present? The rule's main purpose is to answer those questions by scaling and thus keeps magic and psi less powerful in normal life which fits with the premise that nobody believes in magic, the supernatural, etc.

Cybermancer · Unread post by **Cybermancer** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:46 am

While I have to say I like the ISP/PPE system for BtS2 and that it gives a lot of flavor and flair and makes a whole lot of sense for the setting, it is neither simple nor elegant.

gaby · Unread post by **gaby** » Thu Nov 28, 2013 2:35 pm

Well they came out with the Dead regin,s books some fast,Why are the BTS,s Ones take so much time?
How much is the New info they will add?
But I still hope Arcanum or Tome will come out.

Wōdwulf Seaxaning · Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:22 pm

Shakes head & wishes Kev would give us the BtS books asap. I've been hesitant to buy any PB books of late as it's hard to find a group willing to play RIFTS but I might be able to find players willing to play BtS if the needed two other books came out. I'd buy them as soon as I could manage it too. This coming from a PB fanboy.

gaby · Unread post by **gaby** » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:19 am

Well I hope they do not reprit the stats for the demons of hades and deevils of dyval,in Tome Grotesque.
I Hope some will be from Rifter made canon and other originals like 35 new Ones.

What Monsters do you want them to keep from BtSEd1?

gaby · Unread post by **gaby** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:15 pm

I think Arcanum will be made first and ther will be two issues of Tome Grotesque,so they can have the Monsters from BtSed1 and All New Ones.
I hope some Monsters from Rifter will be made canon.

Cybermancer · Unread post by **Cybermancer** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:34 pm

You would be hard pressed to make a worthwhile book out of just the creatures found in the first BtS, especially since some of them already appear in BtS2. I think there will only be one creature book.

mrloucifer · Unread post by **mrloucifer** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:03 pm

Cybermancer wrote:I think there will only be one creature book.

Kevin mentioned in a update about a month or so back that they now intend to make a series of Tome Grotesque volumes as opposed to one giant book. If that means they will get published faster, I'm all for it.

mrloucifer · Unread post by **mrloucifer** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:04 pm

gaby wrote:I hope some Monsters from Rifter will be made canon.

So do I, especially as a several of them are my scribes.

Cybermancer · Unread post by **Cybermancer** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:35 pm

mrloucifer wrote:
Cybermancer wrote:I think there will only be one creature book.

Kevin mentioned in a update about a month or so back that they now intend to make a series of Tome Grotesque volumes as opposed to one giant book. If that means they will get published faster, I'm all for it.

They planned to publish one immediately after BtS2 along with the book on magic. Nine years ago.

I'll be happy with one book. And to be perfectly honest if I had to choose, it would be Arcanum. Palladium already has tons of resources for monsters that can be used in BtS. I know, I've been doing it for about... nine years.

At this point I'm going to risk sounding like a nega-psychic and say I'm not going to believe any plans for any BtS books until after they're in my hand so I can see and touch them. And then I'm going to have to be convinced that I am not hallucinating or breathing swamp gas.

mrloucifer · Unread post by **mrloucifer** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:20 am

Okay, lets be honest now... its entirely possible to breath swamp gas while holding a BtS Sourcebook. You can hallucinate while holding one as well for that matter, but it seems kinda silly to me that you would hallucinate about holding one when reality is that you are holding one.

But hey, whatever floats your boat my friend. I don't judge. Very often.

Cybermancer · Unread post by **Cybermancer** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 9:38 am

I gotta be holding one before we can talk about it being reality. Since I'm not, it's not.