Renaming N&SS techniques to avoid inter-game confusion

[Tor]

Due to techniques like Dodge and Roll functioning differently in N&SS than in other systems (based on their descriptions) and due to different uses of terms like 'automatic' I am hoping to generate some discussion about how we could rename these techniques so that their function is clearer when discussed in a broader Palladium context.

When discussing a Megaversal system, some opt to interpret that these techniques suddenly work differently when you cross the dimensional barrier. I find this quite absurd since they are skills. These are based on training, not laws of reality. Instead, while these techniques share names with techniques from other systems, their descriptions make clear that they are fundamentally different. Just as we can have 2 distinct beings called Necrophim, two distinct 'Call Lightning' spells (the original BtS one launched 3 bolts, for example) we can also have 2 distinct dodges.

But I think since the N&SS version of these techniques seems to stand out as operating uniquely, while the operation of techniques of these names functions relatively uniformly in other systems, it should be the N&SS techniques that we rename.

What I think is basically by doing so we avoid confusion about operation, and allow N&SS arts to operate as they were designed to, without altering how the hand to hand forms in other systems operate. I am hoping people could offer other suggestions besides those I come up with. This is not solely to avoid confusion with other systems' techniques, but also confusion inherent to technique names not necessarily reflecting their function.

On the left I will mention the name of the technique in N&SS, and on the right what I propose it could be changed to. Although some existing names (circular/multiple) could be appropriate to describe a renamed technique I have intentionally avoided doing so to make clear the distinctive new meaning to avoid confusion with the old meaning.

1. Multiple Dodge > Spherical Dodge

I avoided "circular dodge" because I didn't want too close a comparison with the circular parry, which functions differently in that it limits your attacking abilities. It's also implied that this technique defends against attacks from above, while I have not encountered that implication for the circular parry, so I feel describing a 3d rather than a 2d shape is more accurate in making clear the extent of the attack.

2. Dodge > Group Dodge

Due to dodges in N&SS functioning as a single-roll defense against all attacks (within line of sight, anyway) made in that attack turn, as opposed to it only working against a single attack in other systems. While 'multiple' would have worked, 'group' is shorter and prevents confusion with the original name of what I propose renaming 'spherical'.

3. Automatic dodge > Planned Dodg(es)

This technique functions differently than automatic dodges described in other systems in that it can only be done by spending the first attack in the melee round to turn it on. I think 'planned' represents this.

4. Roll > Auto-mono-roll

Rolls in N&SS do not cost a melee attack as they do in other systems, so when this maneuver is provided by a martial art form, it should be clear that it does not cost an action. The "mono" is to distinguish that this automatic (free) defense can only be used once per turn, though.

5. Automatic roll > Auto-poly-roll

Since normal rolls in N&SS do not cost an action, I felt that this being the exclusive 'automatic' roll was misleading. The distinction here with 'poly' is that unlike mono-roll, poly-roll functions more like an automatic parry in that it can be used against an unlimited amount of attacks in that turn.

6. Disarm > Grapple Disarm or Automatic Disarm

The description in N&SS for grapple specifies that it can either be done as a defense against an attack (in place of parry) without costing a melee attack, or that it (normally) costs a melee attack when done as part of a hold (including joint locks) or a "one handed grappling maneuver". I'm not sure whether or not that includes Entangle as I don't know if that takes 1 or 2 arms. I think it could include things like the 1-handed choke provided by Fong Ngan.

Which of the 2 the person has would I think depend on whether Disarm is listed under "Advanced Defenses" (like Aikido) or "Special Attacks" (like Chi Hsuan Men). These 2 distinct different categorizations and forms of operation I think warrant separately naming these techniques. Every instance of Disarm I came across is only defensive like Aikido, so it could be implied here that only the White Jade Fan is able to disarm during a grapple.

It's worth noting though that if 1 party puts an opponent in an Arm Hold that a 2nd party can easily remove things from their hand.

The advantage to a grapple disarm is that while you need to make a disarm roll (as a Strike, so presumably you need to roll 5+) people who are placed in holds/locks/grappled usually can't defend themselves, so your roll probably won't be opposed by a parry or a dodge.

The advantage to the automatic (defensive) disarm against strikes in N&SS is you simply need to beat their strike roll for it to succeed. This differs from how Disarms are described in other systems where (when done as a defense) disarms have to beat some natural roll of 19 or 20 or some other ridiculousness.

7. Pull Punch > Improved Pull Punch

Since in most systems a Pull Punch requires 11+ but in N&SS anyone with a martial art form can do it in 7+, renaming it could bring awareness of this. Alternatively, rather than keep track of a separate target number, a +4 to pull punch could simply be built into all of the martial arts forms.

I am unable to resolve the issue of the 15+ required for untrained/agent characters compared to the 11+ defined in other systems.

One house rule resolution I would suggest for this is that GMs have 15+ be required for untrained characters, 11+ for people with any of the agent HtHs or normal HtHs, and 7+ for martial arts forms. Seems reasonable enough. If using a universal 11+ then just institute a -4 penalty to pull punch for those without any HtH combat skill or martial art form. If using a universal 15+ then people with a HtH should get +4 and people with a MAF should get +8.

Unclear how it works in conjunction with the 'restrained punch' available to those with supernatural physical strength.

8. Automatic Parry > Automatic Unlimited Parry

Rules in N&SS allow automatic parry to be done against any number of multiple attackers. In new HtHs like in Dead Reign, you can only use the automatic parry for up to 3 opponents per turn (much like N&SS's normall Roll can only be used against 1 opponent) and the fourth automatically strikes. The addition of 'Unlimited' clarifies the distinction that those who get parry via N&SS forms do not have this 3-opponent limitation, although they are still vulnerable to attacks from the rear unless using a Circular parry.

9. Body Flip > Attacking Flip or Defensive Flip

Just a minor note that it would be useful to clarify the two uses of the basic ability (which costs a melee attack). The distinction being that for it to succeed defensively, it need only beat a strike roll (those tend to be lower, no physical skills add to that) and that in addition to neutralizing an attack, it only inflicts the basic damage and loss of initiative.

The distinction in an attacking flip is:

Benefits:
1. It can end up being a critical strike if it meets a natural number (defensive ones cannot) or even be inherently critical (if no natural number is specified)
2. It can (at no extra cost) be used to throw the victim into another victim, inflicting damage and penalties on both.

Disadvantages:
1. It it is more easily avoided (an opponent is more likely to make a parry or dodge roll)
2. It doesn't neutralize an enemy attack (although the loss of an attack would prevent one immediately afterward)
3. It opens the attacker to damage from a simultaneous attack or even an automatic body flip.

The automatic body flip would be a defensive flip that doesn't cost an action.

HU NOTES

In Heroes Unlimited, those with the automatic technique (it says only Physical Training, but it is actually both the Defensive PT and the Ancient Master who get it) can opt to do what I term an "automatic disarming body flip" (ADBF) which, in exchange for sacrificing the damaging aspect of the body flip, instead disarms the opponent and greatly increases the chance of success by allowing bonuses to disarm to also be added.

Whether or not this added ability should be allowed for N&SS would be up to the GM, but by the rules I would think it would not be, and it would be exclusive to HU's defensive PT and AM.

The wording of body flip which talks about turning an attacker's force against them also strongly implies that it is a defense-only tactic which costs a melee attack (much like entangle or a normal dodge) rather than something which could be used offensively. Whereas wording in N&SS makes it clear that it can be used offensively.

In HU the Disarm is what I would term an Offensive Disarm. Unlike the N&SS version, when you get a Disarm by a HtH from HU, when it is used offensively as a strike it does not need to be done during a hold/lock/grapple. While this gives a wider range of options, it also means that in those added options your opponent is more likely to be able to mount a defense.

Presumably takes 5+ to succeed like a normal strike, though I don't think it would benefit from strike bonuses. That gets muddled when discussing ranged weapons and called shots and sharpshooters in pretty much ANY system though.

What I would term as the Defensive Skilled Disarm in HU is not an automatic maneuver like in N&SS, but rather it costs an action, and it also requires rolling 19+. Presumably the roll of 19+ would have to tie or exceed the attacker's strike roll, although I'm not very clear on that.

Dead Reign & PF2nd & RUE NOTES

Disarm is similar to HU. It works the same offensively, but defensively it differs and is what I would term Defensive Unskilled Disarm because while it requires the same 19+, it has to be a natural roll and disarm bonuses do not apply. There's also no combining the defensive disarm with an automatic body flip in RUE, which it could never due as a Rifts tactic to begin with, and especially since the automatic flip was removed from the RUE version (and CWC reprints) of HtH commando.

Descriptions of its use as a strike, as mentioned in HU section, are not clear on whether or not you would apply normal strike bonuses.

[drewkitty ~..~]

If any changes should made, they should be made outside the N&S and MC books.

[Tor]

Why only outside? These seem like good things to talk over online in fans and bunch ideas and reach consensus about, as a guideline for discussing inter-system interactions and distinguishing from same-named different-working game concepts.

If they ended up in a future conversion book, GMG, or if N&SS or MC ever got reprinted, then that would be awesome too.

What could be reasonable, perhaps, is to use normal dodges for the agent skills since they're ALMOST the equivalent of the basic/expert/MA/assassin stuff we see in other systems. Albeit with some critical differences (like WP Knife/Throw kata and such)