Artillery and Air-Defences.

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:26 pm

In the old days when the first cannons were used made of iron and wooden wheels carried by horses, battles were fought using artillery. In Rifts the battlefield can change in an instant. Yet a demand for more weapons or defences seem to be in never ending supply. Robots walk the land battling enemy's. Power Armor engage monsters of all types. Yet many need inexpensive ordinance that can be made cheaply.

Vehicles are paving that way. These are just a sample of inexpensive second line defence units in a fast paced world of monsters and magics not to mention powerful robots. Some stationary defences are necessary. Communities that could not afford power armored suits can now afford flack guns at a fraction of the cost.

-Commander.

Coalition States

Second line mobile fixed ordinance has not been a priority. The CS has used secondary defences in a variety of peacekeeping roles. ISS uses these from time to time. CS military rarely uses them. These fixed defences can be hitched up then towed to an area. Easy to operate as these aging defences have not been used since the war with the Federation of Magic in 12 P.A.

Rain of Death

Based on a US Army design recovered from old chicago national guard ruins. Its a Multi-Missile Platform. These have been in production for years due to reliability and are cheaper to make. Last production run was twenty years ago. Radar System can track up to 60 targets simultaneously, Range 100 miles for aircraft above 300 ft.

Model Type: Rain of Death Mark XV

Class:Fixed Artillery

Crew:Three:One Commander/Communications Operator, Two Gunners, Sensor Operator Can accommodate Two passengers.

M.D.C. By Location:

**Upper Radar Sensor Array :--80

Left Arm Gun:120mm Rapid Fire Cannon.--60

Right Arm short range missile pod.--60

***Lower Medium Missile Launcher System:--100

*Main Body:--200

Front/Rear Laser Turrets:(2)--20 each

Reinforced Crew compartment--50

Track Treads(2)--70
* Depleting the M.D.C. of the Raining Death will shut it down completely rendering it useless.

**Depleting the Radar Sensor Array will destroy the main radar and targeting system. -2 to strike(No bonuses) Pilot must rely on his own vision or hearing.

*** Destroying the Medium MLS will cause the vehicle to explode, Doing Damage of one missile times the number of remaining missiles in a 600 ft area. An enemy attack striking a missile while launched is a difficult called shot at -4, Causing a chain reaction as above.

Speed:None, Can be towed then deployed. It can turn but cannot move to doge missles.(Tracked unit)

Statistical Data:

Height:18 feet, 3 inches

Width::7 ft

Length:16 ft,5 inches

Weight:30 tons fully loaded

Cargo:6x6x6 feet of storage space.

Power System:Gas or Electric. Newer Models use electric.

Black Market Cost: 2 million with gas or 4 million with electric engine. Uncommon availability.

Weapon Systems:

1.Medium Range Missile System:MRMS is a old pre-Rifts design. Six tubes sit below the radar sensor array. It can reload from its magazines every five seconds. It is used to coordinate artillery strikes or to target aircraft. A platoon of four Raining Deaths can bombard the enemy into submission. It can elevate 90 degrees.

Primary Purpose:Artillery
Secondary Purpose:Anti-Aircraft
Weight:10 tons.
Mega-Damage:Varies with missile type.
Rate of fire one at a time, Or volleys of two,four, six. Can fire three volleys per melee
Effective Range:40 miles.
Payload:60 missiles(10 Volleys)

2. 120 mm Left Arm Rapid Fire Cannon Blueprints were found up near Iron Heart years ago. A copy was made to upgrade the former gun. One of the last Pre-Rifts American Artillery designs to have a cannon. Variety of loads, Including High Explosives.(HE) High Explosive Anti-Tank.(HEAT) Armor Piercing Explosive(AP). Armor Piercing Sabot-Discarding Dart(ASPD)
It is unable to turn to the left but can rotate 360 degrees vertically.

Primary Purpose:Artillery
Secondary Purpose:Defense ,Anti-Aircraft,Anti-Robot, Anti-Dragon.
Weight:2 Tons
Mega-Damage:High-Explosive(HE):1D6x10 M.D. with a blast radius of 20 ft. High Explosive Anti-Tank.(HEAT):2D6x10 M.D. with a blast radius of 10 ft. AP:1D4x10 APSD:2d4x10 (no blast radius they punch through armor.)
Rate of fireTwo Attacks per melee no matter how many hand to hand attacks.(Reload time is one melee.)
Effective Range:10,00 feet for all rounds.(Further if coordinates are called in; no more than five miles away.)
Payload:40 shells. with 10 rounds for each type or any load configuration.

3. Right Arm Mounted:Short Range Missile Pod Mounted on the Right arm is this pod of six short range missiles. Reload is one melee. It is round shaped like a bowl allowing for it to adjust right or left 30 degrees and rotate 360 degrees.

Primary Purpose:Anti-Aircraft
Secondary Purpose:Defense.
Weight:5 tons
Mega-Damage:Varies with missile type.
Rate of fire one at a time, Or volleys of two,four, six.
Effective Range:5 miles
Payload:24 short range missiles.

4.C2-T Dual Laser Turrets:These are mounted on the front bow and rear of the Artillery. They are the same laser turrets used on the Mark V.

Primary Purpose:Anti-Personnel.
Secondary Purpose:Defence
Mega-Damage:4D6 Per Dual Blast
Rate of fireCan shoot up to six times per melee.
Effective Range:4000 feet.
Payload:Unlimited

Note:Sensor Turret is able to rotate 180 degrees allowing its arms to face that direction taking one melee attack.

Note:Any Good Criticism would be nice as this is a homebrew. Thinking i should make this just all missiles. Let me know what you think. I have a few more in my head for general use outside the CS. Also these should be towed by the Mark V APC or the Mark IX APC for added firepower or to drop off at strategic locations.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:57 pm

Artillery: The Last Argument of Kings. :ok:

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:00 am

Operation Zeus

Coalition States had developed many new weapons to use against Tolkeen . One of them was the Mark IX MLS Variant of the Mark V APC. Brain Child by Dr. Eric Zorken son of Colonel Zorken who headed up special projects for General Underhill. Free Quebec Frenzied the Project as war nearly happened again.

Operation Zeus objective was to create Artillery to bombard new and growing threats like the Xiticix or ever growing Alien menaces like the Naruni who seek to sell to CS enemies with very advanced tech. Building an artillery system that could take on the ever growing threats that challenge the CS was a task Dr. Zorken embraced.

This means less CS Soldiers or even equipment like Skelebots used in conflicts that would have high casualties. Ten Years have passed as he now emerges to give the CS and its allies his greatest creations of war. He seeks volunteers to try out his creations.

Coalition Mark X Mobile Artillery Gun(Rifts Mercenaries Pg. 149) Joins the Mark IX Missile Launcher Vehicle as Artillery. Using the chassis of the Mark V this tank has been converted into artillery. These were experimental designs that took part in the war on Tolkeen.

Model Type:Coalition Mark X
Class:Coalition Mark X Mobile Artillery Gun
Crew:Six:Pilot, Commander/gunner, sensor operator, communications operator, two gunners

M.D.C. By Location:

200mm Mobile Artillery Rail Gun--150

Side Laser Turrets(4)-20 each

Smoke/Gas Dispensers-(20)--15 each

Advanced ECM/sensor arrays(2)--40*

Forward Auto-Cannons--(2) 10 each

Forward headlights--(2) 2 each

Main Body-- 350*

Wheels (8)-50 each

*Depleting the M.D.C. of the Main Body will shut down the Mark X , Rendering it useless.

**Destroying these is a called shot at a -4 reducing the radar and extra communications arrays to be destroyed. Thus must rely on standard bonuses.

Speed:90 Mph(144 Kph) Unlike the Mark V it cannot travel underwater.

Height:20ft
Width:9ft
Length:33ft,6 inches
Weight25 tons fully loaded
Cargo:minimal storage space;about four feet(1.2m)for extra clothing weapons and personal items. Rest of the cargo space (troop transport rooms) have been modified to carry around a hundred rounds.
Power System:Nuclear;Average energy life 15 years.
Black Market Cost: Mark X has never been available on the black market.

Weapon Systems

.1 200mm Artillery-Rail GunThis huge gun can shoot at targets from 15 miles away. It was designed to fit on the Mark X and provide fire support to ground troops. Ground troops tag or call in on a target. the two sensor arrays pick up the signals then the computer adjusts the firing solution. +2 bonus to hit while the sensor arrays are active. The gun can rotate 180 degrees. Elevate to 90 degrees

Primary Purpose:Artillery
Secondary Purpose:Defence.
Weight:3 tons
Rate of Fire:2 shot per melee.
Mega-Damage:High-Explosive(HE) 2D6x10 M.D. with a blast radius of 30 ft. High Explosive Anti-Tank.(HEAT):3D6x10 M.D. with a blast radius of 10 ft. Armor Piercing Smart Shells +5 to strike 2D4X10 No radius. Smoke Shells.
Effective Range:15 miles
Payload:Mark X carries 100 shells. 25 of each shell is the standard loadout.

.2 C2-T Dual Laser Turrets:(4) They are the same laser turrets used on the Mark V.

Primary Purpose:Anti-Personnel.
Secondary Purpose:Defence
Mega-Damage:4D6 Per Dual Blast
Rate of Fire: can shoot up to six times per melee.
Effective Range:4000 feet.
Payload:Unlimited

.3 Forward Auto-Cannons(2) Mounted on the side of the sensor arrays are auto cannons. Usually operated by the pilot. Each Auto cannon can be rotated 180 degrees.

Primary Purpose:Anti-Aircraft.
Secondary Purpose:Defense
Mega-Damage:3D6 M.D. per fragmentation round; area affected is 20 ft
Rate of Fire:Standard
Effective Range:2000 feet
Payload:60 total; 30 each

Sensors of Note:Sensor Arrays Provide Infrared, Thermal Imager, Motion Detector, Radiation Sensor, Electronic Countermeasures(ECM), Full Radio transmission and reception. Radio Scrambler. Radar 100 mile range can track up to 96 targets simultaneously.

Mack · Unread post by **Mack** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:40 pm

Commander,

If you haven't seen it already, I recommend you take a look at the X-2020 Rainmaker on page 136 of Triax 2. It's in a very similar vein.

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:05 pm

Mack wrote:Commander,

If you haven't seen it already, I recommend you take a look at the X-2020 Rainmaker on page 136 of Triax 2. It's in a very similar vein.

Need those books as i got the Core Books and some older ones. I just seen the first NGR & Triax. Don't worry i got a few new NRG & Triax vehicles. I got one last one for the CS i am working on then moving onto the NGR and Free Quebec then NG and other well sold and used artillery. I am kinda guessing so i hope i its in the same area but different. I even have ideas for using GWA as they have refurbished M777 and Paladins.

Even some house rules for artillery. ECM and Ideas for EMP missiles or bombs.

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:49 am

Project Zeus

Dr. Zorken began years ago researching. He is the authority on many kinds of weapons systems. He served in the CS Army as part of a special team under his father to investigate new or enemy technology;even recover such tech for further study. It was not long before he became well educated on his enemy's weapon systems and tactics.

He was put in charge as project lead after failures claimed the lives of most of the last team; Due to a tragic accident. He was able to salvage the project thus give invaluable insight and improve on the initial design. Project Zeus was born. His other creations were test bed, to see what worked better. Missile or Gun. He was able to find old pre-rifts blueprints in Lone Star thus he centered the new artillery system around the ordinance and coupled with the CS Blitzkrieg style of warfare, It would destroy its enemy's

Zeus

With the new Coalition armor and weapons this weapon system can provide ground troops with the firepower needed. The advanced gun uses every artillery advancement. The gun is able to reconfigure its bore to fire its own special ammunition or to fire standard rounds from 155mm howitzer rounds up to 200mm standard rounds.

This terrifying new weapon has the ability to shoot at targets 25 miles away. Its main rounds consist of Javelin like projectiles that act as smart rounds or bombs thus are able to even target aircraft if the right round is selected. Javelin Artillery Weapon System is even able to select the proper round and uses smart technology to hit or destroy its targets. Three have been built so far and combat trials are going on in the Tolkeen ruins area or near Chi-Town and Lone Star.

Model Type:Zeus Aka J.A.W.S.
Class: Mobile Artillery
Crew: 24. Pilot, copilot, Commander, two sensor operators, two communications operators, chief gunnery officer, six gunners, Two engineers, six techs. Two medics.
Troops:Carries two squads of security forces(14 in total) and Four power armor or Borgs to help repel boarding actions.
Can carry 12 more people comfortably and twice that in an emergency.
M.D.C. By Location:

J.A.W.S. Experimental Rail Gun-300

*Sensor Dish/Mast --50

Command and Control Center Bridge--100

Block shaped spotlights(2)-- 15

**Electronic Warfare Suite-50

Cupola mounted rail guns with shields.(4) 50

CIWS C90R Gatling Rail Guns(2) 150 each

Smoke Gas/Dispenser(2) 20 each.

Side Laser Turrets(8)-20 each

Spotlights/Headlights(4) 5 each

Large Door Hatches(2) 100

***Main Body-1000

Reinforced Pilot and Crew Compartment.--100

Concealed Tracks(8)--100

*/**A Called Shot at -4 it will destroy radar and communications. Thus no bonuses apply.

***Depleting the M.D.C. of the Main Body will shut down the Zeus , Rendering it useless.

Speed:60 Mph, If it seals up it can drive 25 mph in the water.

Height: 30 feet, two inches
Width:16 feet
Length: 60 feet, Five inches
Weight: 80 tons fully loaded
Cargo: Every crew member has a 6X6X6 foot locker. Half of the crew is sleeping in cots when not in action as it is a shared space. 3 Armory's located at drivers compartment, CIC/bridge and engineering room.
Power System:Nuclear; Energy life lasts 15 years.
Black Market Cost:Not a chance.

Weapon Systems

1. J.A.W.S. Experimental Rail Gun:The Javelin Artillery Weapon System was a pre rifts ordinance. It was feared as it could destroy a Glitter Boy. The gun is specially designed to use Javelins or any other ammunition it could scavenge. So in a pinch it could use older rounds configuring its barrel. This is cutting edge for CS technology who hope to close the gap with other human nations like the NGR & Tiax.

The gun is able to pivot 60 degrees left or right on its Axis. Its able to rotate 180 degrees vertical allowing it to shoot straight up in the air and engage aircraft. The big drawback is the huge Artillery Tank must turn to face its target. It can auto reload, that alone significantly frees up man power.

Primary Purpose:Artillery
Secondary Purpose:Defense.
Weight: 20 tons
Rate of Fire: 2 shots per melee.(it takes two attacks to reload both shots)
Mega-Damage: It uses the most advanced shells such as the Javelin or standard smart shells. Javelins are spear like weapons that use the medium missile table. They are self guiding projectiles. Yet are not missiles. Add +2 to strike with all Javelin types except multi-warhead it gets a +5.
Effective Range: 25 miles
Payload:125 Javelins of all types or 250 rounds of standard ammo(155mm or 200mm)

.2 CIWS 90R Gatling Rail Guns(2) Anti-Missile defense that can rotate 360 degrees. They are mounted on the right and left sides to provide maximum missile defense coverage for the front and rear.

Primary Purpose:Missile Defense.
Secondary Purpose:Defense
Rate of Fire: Six attacks per round
Mega-Damage: 3D4x10
Effective Range: 6000 feet
Payload: 60,00 rounds(500 bursts)per gun.

.3 C2-T Dual Laser Turrets: (8) They are the same laser turrets used on the Mark V. Four on each each side.(left and right)

Primary Purpose: Anti-Personnel.
Secondary Purpose:[u] Defense
[u]Mega-Damage: 4D6 Per Dual Blast
Rate of Fire: can shoot up to six times per melee.
Effective Range: 4000 feet.
Payload: Unlimited

.3 C-40R Rail Gun (4)The weapon can rotate 360 degrees and up down 70 degrees. As usual, All the weapon systems are powered from the vehicles nuclear power supply. All four are located on the four corners of the Zeus: to provide close in support from infantry or up close attacks on the Zeus.

Primary Purpose: Assault&Defense
Weight 700 lbs
Mega-Damage: A dual-burst is 80 rounds and inflicts 1D6x10 M.D, one round does 1D6 M.D.
Rate of Fire: Each dual-burst counts as one of the gunner's attacks per melee
Effective Range: 4000 feet
Payload: Payload 20,000, 250 bursts Reloading a Mark V rail gun requires special equipment or a giant sized robot. It will take 15 minutes for those not trained., but a mere five minutes by somebody trained in robot mechanics.

Sensor Note:Infrared, Ultraviolet, Motion Detector,Passive Night Vision, Telescopic, Laser Targeting. Radar Detector, ECM Jammer, Radar 96 different targets. Full Radio transmission and reception, Radio scrambler.

Note: The crew members painted a large shark from a movie calling it Jaws. Many call it the Shark or Jaws as it hunts for prey. Others have painted lighting bolts with sharks its become a hobby with the CS crews as nose art has made its way back into army life.

Also its a ground commanders dream with a Combat Information Center Bridge At the top as he directs troops and selects what targets for the Gunnery Officer to strike.

ZINO · Unread post by **ZINO** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:15 am

Artillery and Air-Defences. this is bad a@#!!!!!!!!!!! love IT man ,now we need is some artist willing to draw these beasts!!!!!!!!!!love it!!keep the good work man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:08 pm

Free Quebec

Project:Bulldog:It's goal was to create vehicles that could support Glitter Boy and Ground Forces(In Secret Since CS had no idea they could manufacture Glitter Boys). NGR & Triax had helped in other joint projects thus took an interest. Before the breakaway from the CS. Dr Marie Anne Renaud(FQ) had hitched on the idea of taking old Glitter Boys wrecked yet could provide a reuse of resources. Secretly she traveled abroad and to Lone Star frequently to give advice.

Dr. Hans Schmidt(NGR & Triax) traveled over from Germany to help the project as they finished the last one. Researching ways to implement a Retrofitted " Boom Gun" into a tank was problematic at first.

A tank design was patterned after German Pre-Rifts tank destroyers in a big war fought long ago. Wanting to improve the design they looked at american artillery and other tank destroyers before deciding on the final design. The prototypes were quickly put at the ready had the CS tried to invade Free Quebec.

Bulldog Tank DestroyerFree Quebec was not about to lose its Glitter Boys nor its independence. It was quickly realized that war was barely adverted and freedom was gained they were able to resume with testing as it was more of an open secret. So far the tank destroyers have exceeded expectations. Lances of Three are being deployed when Glitter Boys are unavailable to FQ forces.

Full production of these is now in full gear. Destroyed Glitter Boys are recycled, then useful components stripped and melted down into these tanks. Spirit of the Glitter Boys lives on. Most Call them "Boom Tanks." Free Quebec has the ability to create and make new Glitter Boys. Thus the Tank Destroyers use the Retrofitted Boom Guns and pylons. It has the same coating used on the Glitter Boy(Making it laser resistant). Crews are proud to have such a tank. Honoring fallen Glitter Boy pilots in such a way. Free Quebec has even started using them in military recruitment ads.

Free Quebec Bulldog a.k.a. Boom Tank

Model Type:Free Quebec Bulldog Glitter Tank. FQTD-013
Class: Tank Destroyer
Crew: 4 Commander, Driver, Sensor Operator/Communications, Gunner.
Can:Fit two other people comfortably.

M.D.C. By Location:

*Retractable sensor antenna probe-50

Shielded cupla mounted laser rifle.-50

Boom Gun--175

Semi-Fixed Sloped Turret--120

**Optical Sensor Packages(2)--30

Twin High Powered Mortar's On Sides of Turret (2)

Dual Quad Headlights--5

***Main Body--850

Reinforced Crew Compartment:100

Tracked Treads(2) --100

*A Called Shot at -4 it will destroy the sensor array. Thus no bonuses apply. High Powered Radar and Communications Destroyed. Radar is reduced to one mile as crew must rely on secondary systems.

**A Called Shot at -4 will destroy the Sensor Packages that mimic the Glitter Boys sensors. Thus will Destroy them as the crew must rely on sight and sound.

**Depleting the M.D.C. of the Main Body will shut down the Bulldog Rendering it useless.

Speed:70 Mph, 20 Mph in water.

Height:14 feet, 5 inches
Width:11 feet
Length:26 feet, 8 inches
Weight:35 tons; Fully loaded.
Cargo: Storage Space for extra clothing, weapons, and personal items. 4 Rifles(CS or FQ. even NG.) in overhead compartments above each crew members station and One Mini-Missile Launcher(CS or FQ. even NG.) Fully loaded behind the driver seat.
Maximum Effective Range;Nuclear(10 year life) or Electric 400 miles before recharge.
Power System:Nuclear and electric with Back up solar storage cells and panels.
Black Market: Cost:Exclusive to the Free Quebec Military. Unavailable to the CS.

.1 RG-16(14 & 15) Rapid Acceleration Electromagnetic Rail Gun:(Retrofitted)This is the Famous "Boom Gun" of legend. It has been Retrofitted to fit this Tank Destroyer. FQ figures one cannot have too many "Boom Guns". It can infact support Glitter Boys or troops needing long range firepower. This is quite terrifying to its CS allies. The tank has a one of a kind stabilizer system like the Original Glitter Boy's. (Shoots flechette style rounds at Mach 5.)

Tank Turret moves 180 degrees. Boom Gun is able to swing 30 degrees right or left. Three special pylons similar to the Glitter Boy; extend into the ground allowing it to to anchor then fire.

Primary Purpose:Assault. Anti-Armor and Anti-Aircraft
Secondary Purpose:Defence.
Weight:2 Tons
Rate of Fire:each booming blast counts as one attack. No sprays or bursts.
Mega-Damage:One Boom Gun Flechette holds 250 slugs that inflict a massive 3D6x10 M.D. Damage
Effects of the Sonic Boom:The Bulldog like the Glitter Boy is specially insulated from shock waves of its own Boom Gun. however everyone with in 200 ft will be temporarily deafened. Characters without any type of sound ear/protection will be temporarily deafened for 2D4 minutes and are -8 to initiative and -3 to parry, dodge. Characters who are inside environmental body armor, A light M.D. vehicle or power armor will have some protection. Still are temporarily Deafened for 1D4 mins; same penalties apply(See Glitter Boy Ultimate Rifts Edition Pg 72 on Boom Gun Effects)
Maximum Effective Range:11,000 ft(2 miles)
Payload:1000 rounds. Automated system replaces full sized ammo drum. It Carries one spare ammo drum that takes out the other drum then replaces it with the new one. This ammo system is quite new and prone to breakdowns. Free Quebec is looking at this system for faster Glitter Boy reload times.( Takes about one melee round to reload a Boom Gun Ammo Drum)

.2 High-Powered Mortars: These Two Mortars provide close in artillery support and a deterrent to infantry. Same Mortars used on the Taurus Glitter Boy. Mortars are able to rotate 90 degrees up and 30 degrees to the side.

Primary Purpose:Artillery
Secondary PurposeAnti-personnel, Defence.
Mega-Damage:1D6x10(Single strike),2D6x10 (Double Strike.)
Rate of Fire:Single Shot to a Volley of Two.
Range:2.2 miles
Payload:12 Total. Six Shots per gun.

.3 Cupla Mounted QRL-201 High Powered Laser RifleDetachable laser Rifle mounted behind a shield. Rotates 360 degrees and can move up down 70 degrees.

Primary Purpose:Defense.
Mega-Damage:3D6 M.D.(Single Shot); 1D4x10 M.D. (burst)
Rate of Fire:Equal to the number of Hand to Hand attacks per melee round.
Range2000 feet
Payload:60 shots(E-Clip) or Unlimited (Hooked into tanks power supply)

Special Sensory Systems of Note:

Optical Systems Full system optics.
Advanced Laser Targeting:+2 to strike.
Self-Destruct Mechanismto prevent tank from falling into enemy hands. Including its technology.
Laser Resistant Half damage from laser attacks.(Only known tank to even have this feature.)
Same Systems as a Glitter Boy. It can survive in space, hostile environments and even underwater.(6 hour oxygen supply.)
Retractable Sensor Probe:(Extends out nine feet) allows the tank to peek over a hill or receive signals on enemy positions or to get coordinates on a fire mission. It features a small camera with Thermal Imaging and Infrared not to mention nightvision.

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:25 am

Project Skyfire: Free Quebec even when it was a CS member realized that while they had a strong army that it left them weak to air attacks. While some units could indeed attack the aerial adversaries some were ill suited. Dr. Marie Anne Renaud(FQ) a leading researcher into Pre-Rifts and other tech was put on the project in 102 P.A.

It took years of research at Lone Star. As luck would have it or just Dr. Renaud's tenacity to go the extra mile. She got the chance to visit NGR on a Glittery Boy consulting project. She was able to find a stash of old documents from the time of the Rifts.

Sensor system schematics were exactly what she was looking for thus was able to claim the prize when she left to resume the air defense project. Building on this, Skyfire became more than just blueprints it became a reality. During her stay she befriended Dr. Hans Schmidt(NGR & Triax) who had always wanted to visit Canada and North America.

He was called to help with some Technical issues thus stayed on to assist Dr. Renaud. Impressed with her work he stayed to help with Project Bulldog. The pair work well together thus have grown close. Some even think they are married. Regardless the two are considered the brightest minds humanity has to offer.

Free Quebec Air Defense System 05 "Skyfire"

Much of the design was created by Dr. Renaud's team. The Quad design came from Lone Star as the records indicated it was used by American space exploration. Inspired her team designed one that was similar. NGR and Triax let them use the sensor suite as it was quite advanced even for Pre-Rifts standards.

From the ground up this was going to be a Anti-Aircraft, Artillery platform. It did not disappoint. It could engage ground forces its true nature, was destroy flying enemy's. The one of a kind mass driver rail guns had come from ideas that Dr. Renaud had gotten during an excavation into some pre-Rifts canadian space technology. The dig had been years ago but they left her with insight and awe.

Arrows have been used since the dawn of mankind. Settling on arrow tips as Broadheads; Dr. Renaud would pattern her ammunition in the same way. She tried so many variations and types of ammunition before settling on the Broadhead design. It looked much like a simple arrow head only more high tech.

The guns use the same technology the Boom Guns use on a much larger scale with no sonic boom.(It uses dampeners thus is shielded when it fires.) Each arrow head is aerodynamically tested. The broadhead's are fired at high speeds, thus are also reloaded quickly in a well designed ammo feed system.

FQ ADS-05 "Skyfire"

Model Type: Free Quebec ADS Model-05A
ClassAnti-Aircraft Artillery Robot
Crew:3 Pilot, Gunner, Sensor Operator/Communications.

M.D.C. By Location:

*High-Powered Sensor Dish-100

Left Shoulder: Large Missile Launcher-50

Right Shoulder:Large Missile Launcher-50

Chest Turret --150

***Left Arm, Mass Driver Rail Gun --100

***Right Arm, Mass Driver Rail Gun--100

**Main Sensor Dish/ECM jammer-100

****Main Body--350

Reinforced Quad legs(4)--150

*/**A Called Shot at -4 it will destroy radar and communications must rely on secondary systems. Thus no bonuses apply. Hitting the second Dish destroys all sensors and radar. If both dishes are down no secondary systems as the crew must use its own sight and hearing.

***Mass Drivers use high powered electromagnets. Should the gun be destroyed or called shot down the tube -4 to strike. It will explode doing 1d6x10 in a 10 foot area.

****Depleting the M.D.C. of the Main Body will shut down the Skyfire , Rendering it useless.

Speed:60 mph (Land)

Height: 32 feet, 5 inches
Width:14 feet
Length 16 feet
Weight 35 tons fully loaded.
Physical Strength: Robotic PS:30
Cargo Space: 6x6x6 feet of space. For additional clothing, weapons, and supplies. Plus a weapons locker with four Rifles.(Choose CS, FQ or NG) NG-S2 survival pack (Pg. 101 Rifts Mercenaries.) IRMSS Disposable kit.
Power System:Nuclear(15 year life)
Black Market: Exclusive to Free Quebec Military. Unavailable to the CS.

.1 Free Quebec Mass Driver Rail Gun Cannon(2):This weapon was designed to throw Broadhead Ammunition at high speeds using electromagnets. The Ammunition is cheap to make. Easy to store and quick to reload. This gun uses smart technology at every step. The Broadheads are three feet long one foot wide. They are shot at mach two. Yet it produces no boom effect like a boom gun simply due to the design of the Mass Driver and aerodynamics of the Broadhead.

Primary Purpose: Anti-Aircraft, Anti-Dragon, Anti-Robot
Secondary Purpose: Defense
Weight:5 tons
Rate of Fire:Equal to number of hand to hand attacks per melee.(Note: it takes one attack to reload after each shot)
Mega-Damage:Armor Piercing(Light 1D4x10) and Medium Armor Piercing(2D6x10) Area of Effect:None. It does tend to impale.
Effective Range:Five Miles
Payload:100 Broadheads total of 50 of Each Type.

.2 Large Shoulder Mounted, Six Tube, Short Range Missile Launcher.(2)
Primary Purpose:Air-Defense
Secondary Purpose:Artillery or Defense.
Rate of Fire: one, two, three, four, five or all six in groups of two or three or just all six.
Mega-Damage:Any Short range missile can be used. See Short range missile table. High Explosive(2D6x10) and Armor Piercing(2D6x10) are most common.
Payload:36 missiles (3 reloads each; with six missiles per reload, per launcher)

Sensor notes: High-Powered Radar and Optical Systems.

Radar can detect flying units 300 ft up or up 200 miles away and up to 106 targets at the same time. Secondary systems is 5 miles. 26 targets.

Advanced Communications systems. Full Transmission and Reception. Radio Scrambler.

All weapons get a +2 to hit air targets while the sensor dishes are up. No bonuses if one is damaged.

Advanced Laser Targeting:+1 to strike with mass driver rail guns.

Electronic Warfare Suite for Jamming Enemy Radar or Electronic Targeting Systems.

Chest turret can turn left or right 360 degrees. Mass Driver Arms are bent at the elbow downward. The arms can move 60 degrees left or right . Up and down 180 Degrees.

See General Robot Systems.

Kagashi · Unread post by **Kagashi** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:34 am

I believe there is already a canon CS tank built specifically for air defense in the back of Mercenaries.

But I do like the feel you are going for. Id beef up the MDC on all the tanks, especially the glittery one. Tanks always get shafted in Rifts. I think insane amounts of armor should make up for the mobility of a robot. Instead, robots are more mobile AND have more MDC with canon examples. Also, with only 600 MDC, that tank would have less MDC than an actual Glitter Boy, at least give it 771 MDC to give it a slight advantage in armor.

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:47 am

Kagashi wrote:I believe there is already a canon CS tank built specifically for air defense in the back of Mercenaries.

But I do like the feel you are going for. Id beef up the MDC on all the tanks, especially the glittery one. Tanks always get shafted in Rifts. I think insane amounts of armor should make up for the mobility of a robot. Instead, robots are more mobile AND have more MDC with canon examples. Also, with only 600 MDC, that tank would have less MDC than an actual Glitter Boy, at least give it 771 MDC to give it a slight advantage in armor.

Thanks..i am glad as i needed a second opinion. Yes since some of them are newer models and the Bulldog should be beefed up due to it not having that mobility of a Robot or Power Armor. I might need to make more minor adjustments. I got a Few for NGR & Triax floating in my head. No one will be disappointed. I been holding back on. And i will Move onto Northern Gun, Wellington and Golden Age Weapon Smiths.

Once i get the world books for a few other places i might be able to come back and update this. Thank you as i did not really think of that about the tanks having more armor to compensate. I was trying to be conservative. I don't want people with magic or who play dragons ect just go (OMG that thing is way OP!.) I am going to even have man portable Mortar Launchers.

Yes i have mercenaries but i wanted to give a bit more flavor. My opinion and reasoning is that they would have made it. Who knows. Artillery Might get its own book. I mean being a CS soldier and calling in Artillery on a Demon and his pets. As the Gm can have more choices saying." Rolling a success you get through to Fire Control. He tells you that they have a Zeus near (or in earlier campaigns the Mark X) He needs the coordinates."

Also Artillery tends to be weaker armor thus being usually far removed from the front lines. A Tank Destroyer However is able to snipe at the heavy armor or creatures and even confront big robots up close. But that's all conjecture. Anyways thank you for reading and liking.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:01 pm

Agreed; some good hardware here, even if it is in the service of the CS(then again, the Evil Empire doesn't get where it is by being consistantly incompetent or miserly with its gear).
And the tanks and robots debate should not be phrased as 'which one is better?' but 'where are they most appropriate?'. Tanks get the shaft because robots are cooler, but also tactically because they can be flipped over by critters like the Spiney Ravager, becoming armored flapjacks in the process. Robots are mechanically more complex, but can step over stuff, climb up stuff, and throw stuff. Tanks are low profile, lower cost, and can have armaments troweled on, while 'bots are expensive and have to be balanced to avoid becoming too top heavy. However, each has its place. A good AAA tank can sweep open air clear of airborne hostiles, if it has an uncluttered field of fire. A well-designed AAA 'bot can climb up into the mountains or rough hills and kill pesky ground-hugging aircraft as they try flying nape-of-the-earth(like, say, by shooting DOWN from a ridge at the flying bastards), or toast those aerial predators in their nests.

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:34 am

taalismn wrote:Agreed; some good hardware here, even if it is in the service of the CS(then again, the Evil Empire doesn't get where it is by being consistantly incompetent or miserly with its gear).
And the tanks and robots debate should not be phrased as 'which one is better?' but 'where are they most appropriate?'. Tanks get the shaft because robots are cooler, but also tactically because they can be flipped over by critters like the Spiney Ravager, becoming armored flapjacks in the process. Robots are mechanically more complex, but can step over stuff, climb up stuff, and throw stuff. Tanks are low profile, lower cost, and can have armaments troweled on, while 'bots are expensive and have to be balanced to avoid becoming too top heavy. However, each has its place. A good AAA tank can sweep open air clear of airborne hostiles, if it has an uncluttered field of fire. A well-designed AAA 'bot can climb up into the mountains or rough hills and kill pesky ground-hugging aircraft as they try flying nape-of-the-earth(like, say, by shooting DOWN from a ridge at the flying bastards), or toast those aerial predators in their nests.

I am not trying to make one better than the other but yes i agree each has tactical uses. Pc's who are playing CS grunts need not feel so naked as even the Skelebots can get destroyed. They could call in artillery or the big guns as they hold out and the GM makes it tense until they get through. Thus Air Support or Artillery blows the Demons or bots to atoms.

Also what if people are running mercenary units ? Or the campaign takes a more independent approach. I think of it as having a cool selection of tools to use so often. Norther Gun or Manistique Imperium would also have such. The proper tactical tools can make great ways to introduce or lets say get an adventure going.

So if you are attacked and you cannot reach a rail gun as some flying demon swoops in. You see the AAA gun as you cover the others.Thus a tool to use for plot development. Also i agree about the bots and what not.

Vehicles are at times death traps yet can be quite useful. Robots are more versatile yet expensive to maintain than a tank or truck for example.

Well enjoy!..NGR has some of the best toys. I shall not disappoint. I loved the great points. Also i want to thank you. I hope that people come to use this. I do not expect to get paid for it nor even mentioned in the Rifter. A lot of guys with homebrews so i do not expect Keven S. to appear and give me praise. That man has allot going on. His work on NG 2 and other projects.

Anyways..Thanks for the advice. Much to consider.-Commander

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:53 pm

No problem; you've got me thinking too.
For example, I wonder how much airborn garbage you can throw into a nuclear-powered turbofan before it chokes and dies? Classic jetfuel engines can be choked and abraded with thick enough smoke and ash, but when you've got megadamage compressor blades and a closed-cycle nuclear powerplant powering it, the equation becomes different....the odd birdstrike or dust storm doesn't have as much, if any effect(it would be tossing paper strips into an industrial food processor), but I'm thinking monomolecular cable or minced megadamage chitin(like Xiticix shell) might do a number on the average Flying Gun or SAMAS engine. :twisted:

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:54 pm

NGR & Triax

The town was on fire as Gargoyles with a demon had turned it into sack and pillage. It was a little town on the Border of the NGR. They had fine beer and loved to dance. Now the beer hall was burning. the militia were not match for such creatures. It was too many. Hundreds of the beasts were throwing people into the fire or drinking. Out of the sky came power armor. They landed doing battle.

Robots came so did armored vehicles. A huge shape fired destroying a mass of them. A vehicle of some sort had robots gather materials as it built defenses. Soon artillery guns and motars were made into bunkers and super strong platforms that troops took up positions on or in.

It was a quick fight as the robots had fought the Gargoyles driving them back. Cannons fired from the huge black shape in the night. The mayor recognized the NGR troopers. They were soon taken in a Leopard III APC to a Giant Vessel. It was huge. The fact it hovered off the ground some twenty or thirty feet off the ground was incredible. It dwarfed the little town they had built. Cannons were still firing as the Gargoyles had fled long ago. Missiles put out the blaze as they rescued the survivors of the town. This ship was unlike any other he had seen. The Mayor had wept now he was hugging all that had helped him and his family not to mention the town they had built. They were taken to the medical bay.

A Colonel stood near as the mayor asked" How many survived ?" Looking around spotting the person speaking to him. The officer smiled at the Mayor." Around a hundred. You were lucky we were near. The General will not cross the border but this was right on the Border so driving back that filth was the least we could do." The Mayor had seen the name on the side of this Hover Battleship. The Demonbreaker

Project:Warlord

Twenty five years ago Dr. Hans Schmidt was a brilliant young scientist on his way to being a rising star. He was sent out on quests to report on the state of things in Europe. After Paris. France then into poland things began to turn. His team was killed as he was the lone survivor.

His friends being killed shocked him as he became reclusive. Wanting to help mankind rid of these monsters. He embarked on quest designing the greatest weapon in mankind's history. He dug through the past. He came on blueprints of a joint project with american engineers that would build some kind of space battleship ?

The plans were half finished as the Rifts had exploded thus it was filed away. Sealed for years. He could adapt this as he looked up a great Battleships of legend. The Bismark His research into such sailing ships had him spend three years designing a weapon so great it would be feared by all who knew of it.

M.A.R.S. Mobile. Artillery. Replication. System.: NGR leaders have been concerned about invasion for years. A team of scientist and military leaders needed a new defensive strategy. Dr. Schmidt had proposed the idea that massive amounts of troops would not not solve the problems NGR faced nor Triax building capacity. They needed to build defenses that were too strong for the Gargoyles to simply outright attack.

They needed to have a flexible defense that allowed them to attack once an area was locked down. Yet common citizens or any could utilize such defences in case things were desperate. Most of all they needed a system to deploy strike and coordinate efforts.

His plans and schematics were looked over as it was a complex but coordinated system. The head of the Triax Company told him it would cost 10 billion credits alone just to build the hull. Not to mention questions on some of the alien technology he examined yet with human ingenuity they could make a version of it.

Soon many came to realize they were not building an alien vessel. This would be the most ambitious undertaking any humans ever have done. It had a plasma engine core. Huge thruster like Vtol engines. Its armor as thick as a battleship. Not to mention it could repair the largest of bots in NGR inventory.

It could deploy massive amounts of troops and other ground units in its belly. It would utilize unmanned drones to search and find the enemy as well as use ground troops. Most of all it will have Artillery guns of yore. Each one shooting a specialized round's. Four huge cannons on such a thing it was a floating Battleship/Fortress.

Triax also informed would take ten years to build just one of these not to mention the mind boggling logistics. Yet the NGR needed more than just mobile command bases.It needed a solution in case a full out invasion happens and they are not prepared. This offered the hope that they could grind any such invasion to a halt. Prototype will be the NG-X -Warlord Class Dreadnought Followed by the NGS Demonbreaker A third one is under construction as of 111 P.A.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:20 pm

Flying nuclear battleships. Their nickname will inevitably be 'zeppelins'. :bandit:

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:13 am

taalismn wrote:Flying nuclear battleships. Their nickname will inevitably be 'zeppelins'.

Well not just only Hover Battleships but more neat stuff to come. Just working out the last few details before i post. hegh zepplins..The Battleship and the M.A.R.S. Fortification Builder.

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:12 am

Warlord Class Hover Battleship

This Battleship is a marvel of innovation. It hovers using advanced VTOL thrusters and space age technology. Due to the weight the Dreadnought cannot hover high. Its armor plating is very thick. It uses a twin hull design. It even features a secondary hover system to the ones used for early hovercraft. The ship can seal up and transform some of its modular design to allow it to float in water. From the Rhine to the Ocean these ships are designed to fight any place at any time.

It uses a more advanced one of a kind plasma reactor. Allowing it to have a great deal of power. Power plant will become smaller as time goes on due to technological advancements. This is the most cutting edge vessel ever built by humans. Some of these innovations were due to study of alien technology. It does not mean that it is using alien technology.

Using advanced pulse laser welding techniques its hull is thick and durable due to M.D.C. materials being used. Its Armor uses a special kind of impact plate system that absorbs explosions better. Hexagonal plate grid lines the hull. Undersides are vulnerable yet are as tough as any tank.

Triax has outfitted the ship with special guns, including the main guns. It hosts a variety of Anti-Aircraft, Artillery and Missile Launchers. The Main Guns are the prize with any Battleship. It uses three massive sixteen inch rail gun in each gun turret in a Gatling like fashion. This means it can fire all three guns in a massive bombardment.

Each uses a specialized ordinance. Each 16"/.50 shell is designed to be not only smart, yet destructive. Thus it has four main batteries of guns. It is much like the 20th Century Battleships only better. It can carry troops. It can act as a mini carrier. launching aircraft, robots and power armor.

It also has a war room for use by the General on board who directs troops or leads troops in the area into battle. Its a system that works apart of the NGR strategic initiative. Allowing him to gather or dispatch troops as needed.

As noted above only two exist. It is NGR greatest secret. Even Free Quebec has heard just rumors. Should this ever become public knowledge the CS would be very paranoid about new trade agreements or begrudge the NGR for holding out on them. Thus treat Free Quebec with even more disdain. Just from association.

Model Type:Warlord-Class-Dreadnought
Class:Battleship
Crew:Ships Captain. Executive Officer. Air Boss, Gunnery Officer, Master of Arms, Communications Officer, Chief Engineer, Senior Medical Officer. Plus 600 crew of various types and specialties. (one squad of ships security are in the sensitive areas at all times.(Mostly Sentry-Bots are posted. Security Teams are located at key points like the bridge or armory.) Bridge, engineering ect.)(Crew section can hold twice as many officers and twice as many crewmen up to 1,230 crew maximum.)
Other Crew:Commander of all Forces General, Commander of the Ground Forces Colonel(second in command.) 2 General's aides. Generals Bodyguard/Security Chief. Eight Bodyguards for the General and his staff. Chief of Staff, Special Forces Adviser, Commander of the Air Forces(General),Navy Air Wing Commander(Commander), Navy Aide/Liaison. 40 other senior officers, 160-220 junior officers, 800 troops(Entire Armored Brigade), A Special Forces Unit and a Engineering Unit.
One M.A.R.S. Construction Unit or Mobile Strike Base Or 4 X-5000 Devastators
150-175 Robots
200-250 Ground Vehicles of all types
700-800 Powered Armor Suits.

Air Forces:
24 XM-275 Lighting VTOL Jet Fighters
30 XM-UAV Drones
14 Flying Robots
4 XM-180 Dragonfly Dropships
Single XM-270 VTOL APC & Airship.
XM-170 Infantry Repair Barges or XM-250 medical Hover Station can dock/ enter the Hangar Bay. (No more than one is permitted inside the Hangar. They are the lifeblood of the NGR. Many do not stay long thus are only mentioned here briefly.)
1500 worker robots(Small Automated Robots)
2000 Dv-12 Dyna Bots(Most are in storage. Only 1000 are active at any one time. Used for labor or to help guard the hull.)
500 DV-15 Sentry-Bots(Posted At key locations. 100 are active at any one time. Unless its an emergency.)
500 DV-40 Hunter/Killer Drone(Dropped off to wage war in monster infested areas.)

M.D.C. By Location:

*Main Bridge Communications Mast/ECM Suite (3)--50

*Secondary Bridge Communications Mast/ECM Suite (3)--50

**Lower Portion,Radar/Mast(2)--100

Crows Nest/Communications Room(2)-150

CIWS Bridge Mounted Rail Guns(8)( 4 per Bridge)-75

Main Bridge Tower--200

Main Lower Bridge Tower--300

Secondary Bridge Tower--150

Secondary Bridge Lower Tower- 200

Main Bridge Side Mounted Short Range Missile Pods(2) --75

Secondary Bridge Side Mounted Short Range Missile Pods(2)--75

**Main Gun Sensor Masts(4)--50

****Main Gun Turrets(4)--500

Each Triple 16" Main Gun Tubes-100(4 sets of three;total of 12 guns)

Super Laser Cannons(6)--120

Quad Mounted Rail Guns(6)--75

****Forward Mounted Long Rang Missile Launchers.(2)150

****Left side Medium Missile launchers(2)-75

****Right side Medium Missile Launchers(2)-75

Hangar Bay Doors(2)--300

Giant Repair Rig/Crane(2)--100

**Main Body--20,000

Reinforced Pilots/Crew Compartments(50)--100

Underside Mounted Laser Cannon Turrets(8)--75

Rear Cargo Troop Door--500

Underside/Bottom

***Large Hover Engines/VTOL(8)--125

***Small Hover Engines/ VTOL(16)--60

***Large Secondary Hover Chambers(6)

***Medium Secondary Sized Hover Chambers(15)--50

***Small Secondary Hover Chambers(30)--20

*****Force Field.--5000

Notes:Weapon Shielded Mounts(On the hull)--40 (man portable heavy weapons.) A Bulkhead hatch or Door--50 Experimental Force Field has bee added during a small refit see sensornotes.

*/**A Called Shot at -4 it will hit. Radar and communications must rely on secondary systems for each section of the ship . Thus no bonuses apply. Hitting all sensor devices. destroys all sensors and radar thus blinding the vessel. If half of the Sensor Masts are down secondary systems take over are reduced to Half as Communications are limited. If all sensor masts are destroyed the crew must use its own sight and hearing.

**Depleting the M.D.C. of the Main Body will shut down The Hover Battleship, Rendering it useless.

*** If they are destroyed in uneven fashion or are destroyed the Battleship grounds in its location. It can lose one or two without unbalancing it then it has a 1-30% to start listing to one side. It takes no damage over water. A grounding does 2D6X100 damage to the secondary hover system then to the hull.

**** Depleting the turrets on the Main Guns or Missile Launchers will cause the Turret or Missile Launcher to explode, Doing Damage of one missile or Shells, times the number of remaining missiles in a 600 ft area. An enemy attack striking a missile while launched is a difficult called shot at -4, Causing a chain reaction as above.

***** Experimental force field technology adapted from the X-1000 Ulti-Max Robot then later used on the ships. Once depleted it has a 1-20% of shorting out until repaired That will take 1D8 hours. It recharges in twenty four hours if shut off or 100 M.D.C. replaced every hour. This is a secret system installed when one or the other ship was in Drydock.

Speed: VTOL Hover System: Top Speed is 200 Mph. Cruising speed is 40 mph. Unable to go past 300 feet. Secondary Hover System Top Speed 120 Mph. Cruising speed is 30 Mph. Is about 5 feet off the ground. Ship is able to enter water after a small conversion of the VTOL and Hover Systems. Water Speed is 20 mph as the boat uses an intake; much like an airplane to push itself in the water.

Statistical Data:

Height:150 feet (50 m)
Width :150 feet (50 m)
Length:900 feet (300 m)
Weight:60,643 Tons fully loaded.
Cargo:Every Crew member has a 6X6X6 foot locker to store personal items in. Most Crew Share Bunk Style rooms with 4 bunk beds to a room. Junior Officers share rooms with another in a dorm style. Senior officers and V.I.P. get a single stateroom. Armory's are manned by a small staff of three; plus mixed squad of Sentry Bots and Ships Security . Main Armory is Located in the Hangar Deck. (3000 suits of body armor. 100 suits of power armor. Thousands of Weapons and Heavy man portable weapons. Most weapons are stored here. Full selection of equipment.) Secondary Armory's are located in the Main Bridge Area, Secondary Bridge, War Room and In Engineering.(10 suits of Body Armor. Two Power Armor Suits, Survival kits, Flares, 20 rifles or pistols of any type. one dozen grenades. some are smoke. One heavy weapon(Choose One). with three reloads. Two Fully stocked medical kits with two IRMSS.)

Troop Section has modular barracks for twenty troops. Officers share quad style bunks and senior officers get quarters ship side. General with his staff also have a office that features a pull down bunk for long nights. Also another large Armory is Located here as well.(See Main Armory above. instead have one squad of soldiers and one squad of Sentry-Bots) A motor pool and repair facilities are located here to keep Robots and Power armor in full repair. More Troops can be housed in modular housing. Up to a maximum of 3000 total troops.

Power System:Experimental Plasma/ Nuclear Reactor.(Range Unlimited, 30 years estimate life.)

Black Market Cost: Better off trying to buy Paris from the Gargoyles. Only Two have been made so far. Third one under construction. Construction costs are 30 Billion Credits.

Weapon Systems:

.1 Main Guns: Tri-Cannon 16 Inch Rail Guns:(4)Perhaps one of the most powerful Pre-Rifts Artillery weapon ever devised. Each gun osculates to fire one projectile much like a gatling gun. Each shell is fitted or designed with smart technologies. It also uses special .50 shells designed to inflict even greater damage. Destructive power of just one gun plus it shell would equal a squad of Glitter Boys in raw power!

Triax is the leader of robotics, thus the Guns are nearly fully automated. Only a small crew is needed to man each turret. Many of the problems plaguing, old ship designs with its guns, were negated by advancements in technology. Four Gun Turrets house three Tri-Cannons that can fire over distances up to 50 miles away. So each Tri-cannon has 16 inch Guns that are more accurate than any battleship ever made by humans. Its shells can all land on the same target at the same time.

The Gun system uses caseless shells that require no gunpowder thus are fired out using electromagnets at speeds up to Mach 2.0 or Mach 2.5; The Smart Warheads allows it with the fire control computer and drones or a spotter can bring down the hammer on Gargoyles, Demons, Gods and Alien Forces who up till now feel pretty omnipotent.

Worker robots are sent in in case of major repairs or loss of human life with so much ordinance in one section of the ship. All turrets are inspected and constantly repaired. Turrets have a tendency to lock up so often. As the weak traversing mechanism is looking to be replaced (1-20% It locks up after loosing half the turrets M.D.C.)

A Crew of four works each gun. A sensor mast is above each gun to allow them to keep firing at targets even if the bridge primary fire control or the secondary bridge is knocked out. The well designed reload system allows for ammunition to be loaded swiftly.

Two Guns each are on both sides of the ship(Front and Back). Alpha and Beta turrets are mounted forward of the Primary Bridge. Delta and Charlie turrets are mounted in the aft, forward on the rear deck below the Secondary Bridge. The guns are able to swivel to port or starboard to deliver massive broadsides.

Each gun turret has a crew of four. Commander, Gunner, Communications and a Sensor Operator.

Note:Truth Be told the Splugorth are terrified of such a weapon as rumors(yet to be confirmed.) of it rivaling even the Kittani: Dragon Dreadnought, Thus will have more incentive to keep supplying the Gargoyles and send agents to verify the existence of a weapon.

Primary Purpose: Artillery
Secondary Purpose: Defense.
Weight:40 tons(per gun)
Rate of Fire:One, Two, or all three is a single attack in a melee each; No bursts or sprays . Firing all three 16 inch Tri-Cannons takes one melee round to reload if all three fired or one attack to reload each shell fired. So for each shell fired it takes one attack or all melee attacks if all three were fired in the previous melee round.
Mega-Damage: Special caseless shells are used with a booster shell for Long Range bombardment(Adds up to 25 miles of range).(Use medium missile table for smoke) including Cluster Bomb Shells 3D6x10(Breaks into small bomblets) Blast Radius 30 ft,Homing Shells that send out a homing beacon to the ship.(+2 to strike with all weapons even shells. It broadcasts the targets position to the ship. Used for Robots, Power armor or giant sized creatures. ) Cryo Shells Blast Radius 30ft(Freezes target for a melee. Need a P.S. 30+(Use medium missile table for MDC of ICE.) to break free takes one melee. Frozen damage is 3D6 per melee till clear. Roll with punch to be frozen 1D4 attacks. Mine Shells(15 deployable mines)Use Short range missile table. except fire retardant and smoke Blast Radius is a 50ft area(5ft for mines) feet. Laser Mounted Super Armor Piercing Shells;LMSAP(Designed to drill into armor then explode) 3D6x10 Blast Radius: none. Thermite Fuel Air Shell 1D4X100 Blast Radius 30 ft, Super Plasma High Explosive(SPHE) 4D6x10 Blast Radius: 15 feet, EMP Shell Blast Radius 20 ft(It does 1 point of damage. It shuts down all electronic and high tech devices. Roll 2D6 as the target is shut down that many melees. Roll punch with fall to half the penalties or take minus dice rolls to parry doge and strike.)Nuclear shells available as well as it requires special permission from the General and Captain of the Ship not to mention NGR High Command.(See long range missile table.)
Effective Range:25 miles(50 with booster shell)
Payload: 2,000 shells including the boosters. (See shell types above.)
Note:Turrets can rotate 180 Degrees. Rotate up 180 degrees. Rotate down 90 Degrees.

.2 Super Laser Cannon Turrets(6)These are secondary armaments designed to give the Battleship flexibility. Two are mounted on the bow near the long range missile launchers.Two Mid Ship and two on the stern on both sides of turrets Charlie and Delta near the secondary bridge. All turrets are in clear fire zones. They can rotate 180 degrees and up down up to 90 degrees.

Primary Purpose:Anti-Aircraft, Anti-Robot, Anti-Dragon, Anti-Ship & Anti-Gargoyle.
Secondary Purpose: Defense.
Rate of Fire:Equal to the Number of Attacks per melee round.
Mega-Damage:1D6x10 single blast. 2D6x10 Double blast.
Effective Range:8000 feet
Payload:Unlimited.

.3 Foredeck Long Range Missile Launchers:(2) Two box like long range missile launchers sit on the main deck in front of the main bridge, behind Alpha and Beta guns. Each hold two long range missiles. Launchers face to the side but can rotate 90 degrees forward. They can rotate up 90 degrees as well.

Primary Purpose:Artillery/Anti-Ship
Secondary Purpose: Defense.
Weight:10 tons
Mega-Damage:Varies with missile type.
Rate of fire: one at a time, Or volleys of two at a time.(Reload time is one attack per missile.)Also has special torpedo types use medium missile table. As the Missile divers the torpedo as it sinks to a depth then goes active.
Effective Range:see missile type(400 to 500 miles)
Payload:24 Long Range Missiles.(5 Volleys total)

.4 Quad Mounted Rail Guns:(6)These Are primarily used for air defense. A crew of two or three normally work the guns. One Gunner, One sensor operator and at times a spotter/communications. They are placed along the main deck between both bridges and between both Medium Range Missile Launchers (Note 1-30% chance that crew will get hit by fire due to the open frame and field of fire each attack.)Each one is able to Rotate 360 degrees. Guns Upward 180 Degrees and Depress 60 degrees.

Primary Purpose:Anti-Aircraft & Anti Gargoyle
Weight:5 tons
Mega-Damage:2d4x10 Per Quad burst.
Rate of fire: Equal to the number of attacks per melee round.
Effective Range:4000 feet
Payload:4000 rounds(100 bursts per gun)

.5 Medium Missile Launchers.(4) Both "Six Packs"(Six Tube Launchers) along with the Super Laser Turrets sit in between both bridges. Each straddling a single quad rail gun each. Both launchers face port and starboard at 30 Degree angles to allow clear field of fire by the quad guns. They add to the vessels tremendous firepower. Mostly used to shoot down air targets. Rotate 360 Degrees. Elevates 90 degrees. Lowers 30 Degrees.

Primary Purpose:Anti-Aircraft or Artillery.
Secondary Purpose:Defense
Weight:10 tons
Mega-Damage:Varies with missile type.
Rate of fire: one at a time, Or volleys of two,four, six. Can fire three volleys per melee
Effective Range:Varies with missile type. About 40 miles.
Payload:240 missiles(10 Volleys per launcher )

.6 Short Range Missile Pods(4) Two each are mounted on the lower sides to each bridge. Anti-Missile Defense and Anti-Air defense weapon. Also used to protect the Bridges from harm. Each hold six missiles. 180 degree side to side and 90 Degrees up and down.

Primary Purpose: Anti-Aircraft & Anti-Missile
Secondary Purpose: Defense
Weight:5 tons
Mega-Damage:Varies with missile type. Uses a torpedo that is missile delivered. Use Short range table
Rate of fire: one at a time, Or volleys of two,four, six.
Effective Range:5 miles depending on missile type.
Payload:96 short range missiles of all types.(4 reloads per launcher)

.7 Underside Mounted Laser Cannons: Four of these these laser turret guns on both port and starboard are inverted. Mounted along the bottom sides to protect the ship from being attacked underneath. They Guard the VTOL and Hover Systems. As well as destroy those who attempt boarding actions. Each is able to rotate 360 Degrees each is able to depress 180 degrees.

Primary Purpose: Defense.
Mega-Damage:1D4x10
Rate of fire:Equal to the number of attacks per melee.
Effective Range:4000 feet
Payload:Unlimited.

.8 CIWS Gatling Rail Guns(8) Anti-Missile defense that can rotate 180 degrees plus, up down 90 degrees. Four are mounted on the upper part of each corner of the Primary and Secondary Bridges. These engage missiles or flying enemy's as needed.

Primary Purpose: Missile Defense.
Secondary Purpose: Defense
Rate of Fire: Six attacks per round
Mega-Damage: 3D4x10(burst)
Effective Range: 6000 feet
Payload: 36,000 rounds(500 bursts)per gun.

Sensor Notes:

Advanced Fire Control and Targeting:The Main 16 inch Tri-Barrel guns get +2 to strike when lasers paint a target.
Smart Ordinance: All shells are fitted with smart technologies or have it built into the design. +1 to strike on all shells and +5 to Nuclear shells and Thermite Fuel Air Shells.

Each turret also gets +1 to strike with direct fire; due to laser range finder and advanced sights. while the sensor mast is working.

Advanced Fire Control for Air Defense: As long as the Bridges and Communications Towers are still active. All Air Defense guns and missiles gain a +2 to strike all air targets. This bonus is lost if the aforementioned is destroyed.

Advanced Radar Systems:(LADAR)500 mile range. 306 targets can be tracked simultaneously above 300 feet.

Advanced Sonar Systems: 10 mile range can track 30 underwater targets simultaneously.

Advanced Modular Design:Parts of the ship can open up to allow it to repair large robots or become a sea going vessel or even an artillery base.

VTOL Hover engines: VTOL Hover engines allow the battleship to be 20% maneuverable when these are engaged. It can hover over large bodies of water to more advanced maneuvers despite the ships bulk for a short time. One should keep in mind the mass of such a ship when performing such emergency maneuvers.

Space Age Design:It is able to operate in hostile environments. Even in space.

Advanced Power Source: Experimental plasma engine is newer better version of a nuclear reactor. It has a secondary fusion nuclear reactor on standby.

Extending Cranes and repair systems: It is able to pick up or repair robots up to the X-5000 or bigger(Such as the mobile strike base) using cranes or opening the Rear Troop Transport Door for later repairs.

Experimental force field technology adapted from the X-1000 Ulti-Max Robot Force Field technology. Even with the plasma reactor it Has to shut down one of the secondary weapons systems to engage it. Medium or Long Range Missile Launchers or Super Cannon Laser Turrets.

Note:It does not transform, as much as shift its sections to allow it to perform multiple missions and roles. Even to hold more troops or people if necessary.

NGR and Triax have spent billions to try to keep the people safe. Should worse come to worse, these vessels will be the last hope in all of Europe. NGR is Determined to not let that happen if they have weapons such as this. Currently a third one is being built in secret.

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:39 am

Sorry it took so long but i needed to make sure i got it right and it was unique. Typing it in took two days!. It has Destroyer escorts i will put up with the M.A.R.S. System. I hope every one enjoys.

Slight001 · Unread post by **Slight001** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:27 pm

Personally I don't think you have anything to feel sorry for. This looks to be a labor of love and as such is highly personal that you are sharing at all is to be commended.

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:09 pm

Slight001 wrote:Personally I don't think you have anything to feel sorry for. This looks to be a labor of love and as such is highly personal that you are sharing at all is to be commended.

When you grow up with Robotech and Rifts for years it inspires you to appreciate people like Kevin S. Kevin Long, Late Great Eric Wujcik who's TMNT and Ninjas and Superspies i still adore to this day. Not to mention all the hard working Palladium artist, authors and writers both out and in over the years. Not to mention the countless fans.

I could not be the person i am today without them. Its nice to know that many of you share the same passion i hope. I love to game and i love to write even with my horrible grammar. My way of giving back i hope. I know many have been here longer but its like coming home in a way here.

I have not met them and i am not seeking to get into the Rifter or to be published at all really. I just hope that its used and people can enjoy it. If it inspires a book on Artillery then so be it. I just am happy it gets used and people like it.*Eats Humble Pie*

PS. What i really want to say is i met allot of great people over the years playing Rifts or Robotech and Palladium has given quite a bit to me. Figure i give it back to the next generation of gamer's and old timers. Sorry musings of a long time fan and gamer.

I like to think that if i say i will make something i will do it. Oh i kinda winged it mostly out of my imagination if any one is curious. I feel like i got three Galaxy's of stuff floating in my head or is it Five now. ?

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:30 am

I am so happy i ordered Two books!..NGR & TRIAX and Sourcebook one! Cant wait to get Triax 2 and CS books!. Atlantis is a cool one also as is Underseas. Darn*Dreams of winning the lottery*Been working off memory for some of it. Hope you all enjoy!

Yes i will be making more cool stuff to come for Artillery. Finish up with NGR and Triax then move onto Norther Gun W.I. And Golden Age Weapon Smiths.

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Fri Feb 28, 2014 4:24 am

Vanguard Hover Destroyer Class.

NGR Needed an Escort ship for the Battleships in the wake of the first ship being constructed. These were designed by a Triax team of engineers ten years ago. They are mostly based on the the technology Warlord class yet were smaller and more maneuverable. They use Advanced Nuclear reactors instead of the plasma drive as it is far to big to fit into these ships.

They have a good balance of weapons, speed and modular design. The Modular design means it can some what transform parts of the vessel or allow it to shift decks somewhat inside. Outside it means it does not have to lock down its VTOL engines as it looks like a dragonfly on the water yet in the air.

It has the most precise control system ever built. allowing it to pull off maneuvers short of inverting the ship or feats of greatness depending on the helmsmen. This means it can lock things down to squeeze into large mountain passes or skim the trees of the Black Forest. They also can walk on the VTOL shielded legs should the ship need to ground for some reason. It can also walk on water by retracting the VTOL thrusters and engaging the special Bouncy system.

Its weapon system is quite advanced. The man gun is a Arc Ion Laser Beam System(A.I.L.B.S.)It ionizes the air firing a laser that heats the air. A few seconds later super heated ions of charged particles ignite in the air. This weapon took five years to develop not to mention countless prototype testing before finally being mounted on the Destroyers.

So far only eight were developed and are being used to screen the Hover Battleships. A Heavy Cruiser is being discussed as a blend of the Battleship and Destroyers. So far the Vanguard Hover Destroyers are proving to be apt and reliable. Some are even discussing using the A.I.L.B.S. on the next Hover Battleship instead of the Sixteen inch guns. Even retrofitting it with more advanced and destructive main guns.

Price tag and faster construction has made many groan less than the Battleship. NGR High Command however reminds the ministers that its a necessary cost unless they wish to have lunch with Gargoyles. Other projects have spun out of the Warlord Program. This just happens to be the more visible ones.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:06 pm

Flying German Warships are SCARY German Warships.
British Isles rogue scholars are probably thinkng to themselves 'Yeah, they're big, but give us a few TW Fairey Swordfish and we can still sink the blighters..."

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:45 pm

taalismn wrote:Flying German Warships are SCARY German Warships.
British Isles rogue scholars are probably thinkng to themselves 'Yeah, they're big, but give us a few TW Fairey Swordfish and we can still sink the blighters..."

Might be able to sneak in using stealth magic. Otherwise they would get shelled or spotted before they even came close.

Problem with magic is most of the time you need to be close in or get close in. Most battleship groups have escorts as do carrier groups.

Going off what i do remember from the England Worldbook i would have to say they have a good chance of being detected before they even come in range. Only way to really hit it with magic is a splugorth mother ship. Otherwise you would need 100 TW vessels to get past the outer defences of robots and aircraft. Not to mention the escorts and its complement of robots and power armor.

Funny thing is like most big ships is that a clever enemy follows the supply lines right to it. Its a Good thing most Gargoyles are not that clever. Some might be, yet they curious would go down first. Overall i say good chances the battleship sinks half the vessels before they even know they are under attack.

hehhehhee..NGR has BIG SCARY SHiPS..*Wonders if i can put a Death Star Laser Cannon on them ?* :twisted:

Slight001 · Unread post by **Slight001** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:13 pm

Combat magic has a spell for shielding the caster (and possibly others?) from detection by technology. However, the spell only works so long as the sensor operator fails their save versus magic. So automated systems will auto-fail but human operated systems at least have a chance to detect the shielded individual/object.

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:15 pm

Commander wrote:[q

hehhehhee..NGR has BIG SCARY SHiPS..*Wonders if i can put a Death Star Laser Cannon on them ?*

Once you get the two Triax books, you can loot the heavier robots for heavy energy weapons.
Rifts Underseas also has a few Triax naval warships you can loot for naval weapons.
Hell, the Jaeger anti-aircraft cannons alone have excellent range and respectable damage.

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:37 pm

taalismn wrote:
Commander wrote:[q

hehhehhee..NGR has BIG SCARY SHiPS..*Wonders if i can put a Death Star Laser Cannon on them ?*

Once you get the two Triax books, you can loot the heavier robots for heavy energy weapons.
Rifts Underseas also has a few Triax naval warships you can loot for naval weapons.
Hell, the Jaeger anti-aircraft cannons alone have excellent range and respectable damage.

The Game Masters Guide Has Quite a Few of them listed but in short hand. Yes having the books is so much better as its been years since i have last held some of them. Most of the Weapon Systems here except for those out of the books i have made up on my own.

Thinking of having a Refit of the Battleships as they will have Bigger Main Guns. Most of the NGR weapons are energy based. I am not saying this is bad but if the NGR can come up with a plasma shell system like the Nurani corporation did in the Rifts Mercenaries or other shell based system i have yet to think of then they could be retrofitted to even higher standards.

I might come up with a new weapon all together. For now i think the Sixteen inch guns are quite powerful as is most of its armaments. Still it could not hurt to upgrade.

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:48 pm

Slight001 wrote:Combat magic has a spell for shielding the caster (and possibly others?) from detection by technology. However, the spell only works so long as the sensor operator fails their save versus magic. So automated systems will auto-fail but human operated systems at least have a chance to detect the shielded individual/object.

If they are in the water and the Hover Battleship is in the water that depends. Anything that gets in five miles of it should be hostile or detected at some point sonar or radar if they are in the air. Not to mention the robots jets even power armor patrolling around it.

Now if you hijacked a barge dressed up as NGR troops or sailors. Used psionics to change minds or mind control them. Then yes i can see that. Even if you hide in dense cover as it passes over. Shifter opens a rift lets loose a demon on it. Otherwise you are going to get shelled or hit by missiles or have power armor robots even jets come visit you.

Also on huge ships like this they do not have just one operator but half a dozen. If you have seen Red October then sort of like that except Rifts style. Or even the LADAR so to speak like the New Battlestar Galactica. Also they have people on the deck with robots.

Some one is going to spot you at some point unless you plan on being clever or tricky.

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:08 pm

Commander wrote:
Slight001 wrote:Combat magic has a spell for shielding the caster (and possibly others?) from detection by technology. However, the spell only works so long as the sensor operator fails their save versus magic. So automated systems will auto-fail but human operated systems at least have a chance to detect the shielded individual/object.

If they are in the water and the Hover Battleship is in the water that depends. Anything that gets in five miles of it should be hostile or detected at some point sonar or radar if they are in the air. Not to mention the robots jets even power armor patrolling around it.

Now if you hijacked a barge dressed up as NGR troops or sailors. Used psionics to change minds or mind control them. Then yes i can see that. Even if you hide in dense cover as it passes over. Shifter opens a rift lets loose a demon on it. Otherwise you are going to get shelled or hit by missiles or have power armor robots even jets come visit you.

Also on huge ships like this they do not have just one operator but half a dozen. If you have seen Red October then sort of like that except Rifts style. Or even the LADAR so to speak like the New Battlestar Galactica. Also they have people on the deck with robots.

Some one is going to spot you at some point unless you plan on being clever or tricky.

Invisibility:Superior and Cosmic Armor would get you to it unless you flew within 120' of someone who was actively using the See Invisible psionic ability. And even if they saw you, they probably couldn't stop you as you fly by at 300+ mph.

--flatline

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:01 am

flatline wrote:
Commander wrote:
Slight001 wrote:Combat magic has a spell for shielding the caster (and possibly others?) from detection by technology. However, the spell only works so long as the sensor operator fails their save versus magic. So automated systems will auto-fail but human operated systems at least have a chance to detect the shielded individual/object.

If they are in the water and the Hover Battleship is in the water that depends. Anything that gets in five miles of it should be hostile or detected at some point sonar or radar if they are in the air. Not to mention the robots jets even power armor patrolling around it.

Now if you hijacked a barge dressed up as NGR troops or sailors. Used psionics to change minds or mind control them. Then yes i can see that. Even if you hide in dense cover as it passes over. Shifter opens a rift lets loose a demon on it. Otherwise you are going to get shelled or hit by missiles or have power armor robots even jets come visit you.

Also on huge ships like this they do not have just one operator but half a dozen. If you have seen Red October then sort of like that except Rifts style. Or even the LADAR so to speak like the New Battlestar Galactica. Also they have people on the deck with robots.

Some one is going to spot you at some point unless you plan on being clever or tricky.

Invisibility:Superior and Cosmic Armor would get you to it unless you flew within 120' of someone who was actively using the See Invisible psionic ability. And even if they saw you, they probably couldn't stop you as you fly by at 300+ mph.

--flatline

Depends on the level of the caster and how long he can keep it up. Unless they can turn invisible for hours on end or can remain hidden in brush it comes down to them having the spells. Most casters exposing themselves in such a way open up for Robots power armor and troops to attack them. Dyna bots would engage said person as such spells affect the mind. Robots do not have minds so unless its a optical cammo of sorts.

Unless you plan on infiltrating or spying or happen to have a army or happen to have forces you still run into the same problem. Enemies who expose that position will be fired on. Charging right in just means that some one will see you and Dyna bots will open fire. Thus will any automated guns. CIWS Guns or other automated guns are not affected. So yes they will need magic armor to get in close but if its just a few vs 1000 then they will be shot from every place. Boarding from the bottom will be problematic due to the laser cannons being set to blast those who try boarding actions. I am saying that you will need to be inventive.

Just flying straight in is not a good approach. you will be shot and detected. Then more guns shoot you and soon you will have a army of robots on you. If not other weapons or troops searching for you. NGR is not the CS. I am sure that they have search patterns to counter magic and have protocols when dealing with when magic is found due to the war with Gargoyles. Likely Psychics and Juicers to PSI-Stalkers, Even Borgs will hunt the magic user down.

It is possible to evade but plain foolish to take on a ship that will track down the person whose magic can counter only so much. Lets not forget the advanced ship sensors. So unless they are an advanced commando team or the like they will not really survive too long.

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:40 am

Commander wrote:
flatline wrote:
Commander wrote:
Slight001 wrote:Combat magic has a spell for shielding the caster (and possibly others?) from detection by technology. However, the spell only works so long as the sensor operator fails their save versus magic. So automated systems will auto-fail but human operated systems at least have a chance to detect the shielded individual/object.

If they are in the water and the Hover Battleship is in the water that depends. Anything that gets in five miles of it should be hostile or detected at some point sonar or radar if they are in the air. Not to mention the robots jets even power armor patrolling around it.

Now if you hijacked a barge dressed up as NGR troops or sailors. Used psionics to change minds or mind control them. Then yes i can see that. Even if you hide in dense cover as it passes over. Shifter opens a rift lets loose a demon on it. Otherwise you are going to get shelled or hit by missiles or have power armor robots even jets come visit you.

Also on huge ships like this they do not have just one operator but half a dozen. If you have seen Red October then sort of like that except Rifts style. Or even the LADAR so to speak like the New Battlestar Galactica. Also they have people on the deck with robots.

Some one is going to spot you at some point unless you plan on being clever or tricky.

Invisibility:Superior and Cosmic Armor would get you to it unless you flew within 120' of someone who was actively using the See Invisible psionic ability. And even if they saw you, they probably couldn't stop you as you fly by at 300+ mph.

--flatline

Depends on the level of the caster and how long he can keep it up. Unless they can turn invisible for hours on end or can remain hidden in brush it comes down to them having the spells. Most casters exposing themselves in such a way open up for Robots power armor and troops to attack them. Dyna bots would engage said person as such spells affect the mind. Robots do not have minds so unless its a optical cammo of sorts.

Go read the spell description for Inv:Sup. The text that I've bolded above indicates that you're not familiar with the spell.

--flatline

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:16 pm

flatline wrote:
Commander wrote:
flatline wrote:
Commander wrote:
Slight001 wrote:Combat magic has a spell for shielding the caster (and possibly others?) from detection by technology. However, the spell only works so long as the sensor operator fails their save versus magic. So automated systems will auto-fail but human operated systems at least have a chance to detect the shielded individual/object.

If they are in the water and the Hover Battleship is in the water that depends. Anything that gets in five miles of it should be hostile or detected at some point sonar or radar if they are in the air. Not to mention the robots jets even power armor patrolling around it.

Now if you hijacked a barge dressed up as NGR troops or sailors. Used psionics to change minds or mind control them. Then yes i can see that. Even if you hide in dense cover as it passes over. Shifter opens a rift lets loose a demon on it. Otherwise you are going to get shelled or hit by missiles or have power armor robots even jets come visit you.

Also on huge ships like this they do not have just one operator but half a dozen. If you have seen Red October then sort of like that except Rifts style. Or even the LADAR so to speak like the New Battlestar Galactica. Also they have people on the deck with robots.

Some one is going to spot you at some point unless you plan on being clever or tricky.

Invisibility:Superior and Cosmic Armor would get you to it unless you flew within 120' of someone who was actively using the See Invisible psionic ability. And even if they saw you, they probably couldn't stop you as you fly by at 300+ mph.

--flatline

Depends on the level of the caster and how long he can keep it up. Unless they can turn invisible for hours on end or can remain hidden in brush it comes down to them having the spells. Most casters exposing themselves in such a way open up for Robots power armor and troops to attack them. Dyna bots would engage said person as such spells affect the mind. Robots do not have minds so unless its a optical cammo of sorts.

Go read the spell description for Inv:Sup. The text that I've bolded above indicates that you're not familiar with the spell.

--flatline

Just because the spell exists does not mean the Caster has it. In fact many of the more powerful spells should be Rped unless its a NPC. Also unless you made your own home brew it does not cover more than one object or person. Most if not many of the illusion spells affect the mind. You are lucky if it cloaks them.

Still it does not negate things that technology can make up for like thermal footprints if near or the like. NGR tends to shoot monster ask questions later yet when it comes to humans they ignore things that are not threats unlike the CS. So unless you plan on having a Rift open on the ship or unleashing a demon, charging in is still foolish. Espionage route is smarter as is infiltration. I have magic you cannot hit me theory is just silly. As is i cannot be tracked. Also silly. I will admit using skills track will be hard on a ship. Much better on open ground with less penalties.

Its Vage but i kinda remember it as i might need to re look it up again. Most modern day weapon systems have redundancy. So shooting movement from an automated gun would get a penalty. Two things with most spells not to mitigate magic. .1: Person must know spell. Unless they are a god or the like these spells take time to accumulate.(Not to mention good Rp as how the get them) .2 Spells do not negate all modern devices. Example an automated weapon with a motion tracker and Thermal vision and IR would not pick up till the motion tracker got close. It would take a penalty to strike. It will fire at your movement. Other two devices would not detect the person using the more powerful invisibility spell. Otherwise it will see them plain as day as the magic affects the mind not inorganic objects.

Seeing does not mean you cannot be detected. This goes for any ship from Underseas to the big space ships in Phase world.They might not see you yet they can detect the vicinity most of the time you are in. Unless you plan on taking out the sensors or the communication room. More advanced sensors can detect O2 rates even air temperature. Tech VS Magic just takes a great deal of good GM judgment. I go by what the book says but it cannot cover all situations.

Colonel_Tetsuya · Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:43 pm

Actually, Invisibilty: Superior straight up makes you invisible, period. (Even to robots and the like) And theres another relatively low level spell that makes you immune to sensors of all kinds.

As for having the spells.. They arent that high level that they woukd be hard to acquire. Invisibility: Superior is only 7th Level; sensor invisibility is even lower.

Also, Teleport: Simple and a good set of distancing binoculars + explosives makes for a devestating anti-vehicle punch that can be delivered from miles away and total concealment with literally ni chance of giving your location away. If you can get your hands on a few LRM warheads, Teleport: Simlple can sink warships or defeat heavy armor handily. Even a few heavy fusion blocks can seriously ruin your day when they are very suddenly stuck to you with a Carpet of Adhesion. A few seconds later and BOOM.

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:07 am

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Actually, Invisibilty: Superior straight up makes you invisible, period. (Even to robots and the like) And theres another relatively low level spell that makes you immune to sensors of all kinds.

As for having the spells.. They arent that high level that they woukd be hard to acquire. Invisibility: Superior is only 7th Level; sensor invisibility is even lower.

Also, Teleport: Simple and a good set of distancing binoculars + explosives makes for a devestating anti-vehicle punch that can be delivered from miles away and total concealment with literally ni chance of giving your location away. If you can get your hands on a few LRM warheads, Teleport: Simlple can sink warships or defeat heavy armor handily. Even a few heavy fusion blocks can seriously ruin your day when they are very suddenly stuck to you with a Carpet of Adhesion. A few seconds later and BOOM.

Again the fact they have no escorts or the fact that they will not detect some one is like saying that people with magic can do anything. And no invisibility does not make you invisible to everything. It depends on the spell. Read the spell description. Apparently people think they cannot be detected.

Again unless you hide in a bush have a visible place a ship can see with its sensors mile around with escorts and patrols of Robots or power armor. its quite pointless to teleport since you have zero idea where you are teleporting to as you have not seen it nor have personal knowledge of it. So unless you want to be detected getting on the deck you could try to random teleport. So you need to get in close. Most Battleships have Battlegroups that screen them. As do Carrier groups. Escorts that do a wonderful job of just that.

So if what you say was true i am sure the CS would loose the fleet of ships they have been building out on the Great Lakes. You still need to get close to the ship. NGR again is not the CS but they are aware of magic. I do not understand why people just assume if you have magic or the spell that you will just be able to do all these things with zero counters to it or that people will make people unaware.

I am here to tell you you can be stopped or detected. They cannot see you but if some one using a motion detector will be able to detect movement. It does not make you undetectable as long as they are aware. Modern day sensors can detect heart beats. Not to mention have a troubleshooter squad to hunt such people down. Some ships will have guards posted at all times to times of ship emergency.

On another note spells that blind sensors will not blind them all. Spell description tells how far. With 600 to up to 100,000 people on a ship eventually some one is going to notice you sneaking into an area. If its a sea going vessel then they have guards walking the deck or Robots like the Skelebot or Dynabot. Not to mention the sensor operators whose job it is to detect such things.

Most spells work on peoples mind as it tricks them into thinking no one is there. Countless Palladium books point this out. 7th level can be far away yet again they have to get the spell. Unless its an army of mages i do not see how they cannot detect you in some way. Nor how things will engage you that are not organic. So unless the spell states that it works on every one..not everything then you still can be detected. Now i am going back to making the escort class before this goes on and on. Magic VS Tech. One has counters to the other. Not saying Magic is Useless as you can use it to Detect or find just about anyone even do amazing things. Tech can do the same only its more limited. So just flying straight in at 7th level is kinda of foolish. So you will be shot at and people will be made aware you exist.

How did they detect you ? Simply put that sensors that can pick up motion to heartbeat do not need eyes to see. now they will need to find you but they can call out coordinates to your position. More than one sensor operator nor does that mean that you will be able to find the senors or knock all of them out. Robots or Power armor will be patrolling as will a reaction force waiting to check out disturbances.

I imagine it would not be easy to get in as you would need to get past patrol's of guards or robots. Some ships are able to detect just about any life form like star trek. Now the Battleship above sure you might get on it but does that mean that they will not detect you ? You are stating they cannot see. Since when do sensors need to see the object visually unless its a passive devices like IR or Thermal. Also Blinding the sensors is a good way for people to notice.

You would think that a people who have been at war for years would have things to counter it. I could make a list so please just use logic and good judgment. Such big ships would have many sensor operators with sensors that detect things. So while they cannot see you good chances they can narrow down the location. They might not detect you right away. But whole sensors going down i would assume would get a security team to check such out.

For nearly every magic spell is a tech counter. Some cannot be countered due to the nature or power like Thoths spells to magic pigeon . If you are going to make bold claims on spells yet not give Tech its due or that they will detect you. Then i am sorry even palladium has admitted that spells do not make you undectedable. If you can see blinded then obviously you should put a blindfold on then feel around for about twenty minutes did that take it all away or were you able to adjust ? People who are blind have a better sense of smell and hearing also they use other senses like vibration.

So moving on.

eliakon · Unread post by **eliakon** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:17 am

to be fair, even if a caster DID have spells to be completely invisible (several different ways to do that), most mages are not going to be able to take out a warship on their own, especially not in one strike. And since invisibility gives a -10 to strike not a blanket immunity....Yes a warship with swarms of soldiers, and robots, and what ever is going to be able to take out a single mage or two or three. The biggest danger that an invisible person poses is things like espionage, spotting for enemy long range strikes, sabatoge and the like.

I would think that the major threat to a craft like this would be dealing with a zerg rush attack. Its pretty easy to kill of a pack of ten gargoyles, its much harder to kill a flock of thousands.

Colonel_Tetsuya · Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:05 am

Commander wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Actually, Invisibilty: Superior straight up makes you invisible, period. (Even to robots and the like) And theres another relatively low level spell that makes you immune to sensors of all kinds.

As for having the spells.. They arent that high level that they woukd be hard to acquire. Invisibility: Superior is only 7th Level; sensor invisibility is even lower.

Also, Teleport: Simple and a good set of distancing binoculars + explosives makes for a devestating anti-vehicle punch that can be delivered from miles away and total concealment with literally ni chance of giving your location away. If you can get your hands on a few LRM warheads, Teleport: Simlple can sink warships or defeat heavy armor handily. Even a few heavy fusion blocks can seriously ruin your day when they are very suddenly stuck to you with a Carpet of Adhesion. A few seconds later and BOOM.

Again the fact they have no escorts or the fact that they will not detect some one is like saying that people with magic can do anything. And no invisibility does not make you invisible to everything. It depends on the spell. Read the spell description. Apparently people think they cannot be detected.

Because that is what the spell description for Invisibility: Superior says. Maybe YOU should read the spell description.

Here, ill make it easy for you:

RUE, Page212-213 wrote:A powerful incantation that makes the spell caster invisible to all means of detection. Ordinary vision, infrared, ultraviolet, and other optics, heat, motion detectors, and even an animals sense of smell, can NOT locate the invisible person. No footprints are made, and little sound (automatic 84% prowl)

That's as clear-cut as it gets. Invisible to all means of detection.

Again unless you hide in a bush have a visible place a ship can see with its sensors mile around with escorts and patrols of Robots or power armor. its quite pointless to teleport since you have zero idea where you are teleporting to as you have not seen it nor have personal knowledge of it.

Maybe you should read what i actually wrote. And then read the description for Teleport: Lesser. Im not suggesting you somehow teleport inside of the thing. Im suggesting that you use a pair of binoculars to see the target, and then teleport a warhead or warheads, or fusion blocks, straight onto it. If you want to make them hard to get rid of, you can first wrap them in a Carpet of Adhesion and then stick them to anywhere you can see.

This attack leaves no trace of where you came from and doesn't cause you to expose more than a pair of binoculars to possible sensors (which are miles away) - not that these sensors can see through brush, cover, trees, or terrain.

So unless you want to be detected getting on the deck you could try to random teleport. So you need to get in close. Most Battleships have Battlegroups that screen them. As do Carrier groups. Escorts that do a wonderful job of just that.

So if what you say was true i am sure the CS would loose the fleet of ships they have been building out on the Great Lakes. You still need to get close to the ship.

Actually, you dont. You just need to be able to see the ship and be within 5 miles PER LEVEL. Even a video feed relayed by someone at the front will do. Seriously, go read Teleport: Lesser. It's amazing.

NGR again is not the CS but they are aware of magic. I do not understand why people just assume if you have magic or the spell that you will just be able to do all these things with zero counters to it or that people will make people unaware.

Because there is no tech countermeasure to what im talking about. None. They have no way to prevent teleportation.

I am here to tell you you can be stopped or detected. They cannot see you but if some one using a motion detector will be able to detect movement. It does not make you undetectable as long as they are aware.

Funny, that's exactly what it (Invisibility: Superior) does. Invisibility to Sensors (level Six Combat Magic, which is actually just normal Invocation Magic that can be learned by anyone) makes you completely immune to all sensors other than optics; the "victim" can still save vs magic to see the caster normally as though the optics werent there. That's it. So, even if they make the save, all they get is normal, mark-1 eyeball vision on you. That's if they are even looking at you through optics, since it provides NO save for other sensors and makes you 100% immune to them. Read the spell.

Modern day sensors can detect heart beats.

Great. Both spells make you immune to those sensors, so that's totally irrelevant.

Not to mention have a troubleshooter squad to hunt such people down. Some ships will have guards posted at all times to times of ship emergency.

On another note spells that blind sensors will not blind them all. Spell description tells how far. With 600 to up to 100,000 people on a ship eventually some one is going to notice you sneaking into an area. If its a sea going vessel then they have guards walking the deck or Robots like the Skelebot or Dynabot. Not to mention the sensor operators whose job it is to detect such things.

Again, Invisibility: Superior makes you outright immune to the sensors. No save. Invisibility to Sensors only allows a save for them to see you through OPTICS; and even if they MAKE the save, they only see you as if they were looking at you with their eyeball - the optics themselve are useless. Says so right in the spell description. And ALL other sensors are 100% fooled. The two spells together make you 100% immune to detection by anything other than a dog boy at close range or a psychic with See Invisibility at EXTREMELY short range.

Most spells work on peoples mind as it tricks them into thinking no one is there. Countless Palladium books point this out. 7th level can be far away yet again they have to get the spell.

A lot of mages can start with it, actually. (None of the ones in the base book, but the Temporal classes can, and so can many of the alternate mages in Fed of Magic). Also, as discussed in the Book of Magic, 7th level is still within the realm of "if you have enough money you can usually just buy it". It isnt until you get to 9th+ that you have to start doing special jobs or quests.

Unless its an army of mages i do not see how they cannot detect you in some way. Nor how things will engage you that are not organic. So unless the spell states that it works on every one..not everything then you still can be detected. Now i am going back to making the escort class before this goes on and on. Magic VS Tech. One has counters to the other. Not saying Magic is Useless as you can use it to Detect or find just about anyone even do amazing things. Tech can do the same only its more limited. So just flying straight in at 7th level is kinda of foolish. So you will be shot at and people will be made aware you exist.

Ive already shot down your detection theory, so well move on to the next part: Go back and read what i actaully said. At no point did i advocate going anywhere near the ship. In fact, what i advocated was sitting about 3-20 miles away with either a remote camera feed or a good telescope or binoculars and simply teleporting bombs directly onto the hull of the ship to cause it to sink. There's nothing to track, no vector to trace, nothing. You're sailing along and the next thing you know there's a rolled up carpet of adhesion full of fusion blocks or missile warheads stuck to your hull at the waterline. And then BOOM. No way to interdict it. No way to even get to them to disarm them in time. I never have to reveal myself to your sensors. (There's actually even a few spells that can let you see far away good enough for the purposes of Teleport: Lesser).

How did they detect you ? Simply put that sensors that can pick up motion to heartbeat do not need eyes to see. now they will need to find you but they can call out coordinates to your position. More than one sensor operator nor does that mean that you will be able to find the senors or knock all of them out. Robots or Power armor will be patrolling as will a reaction force waiting to check out disturbances.

I imagine it would not be easy to get in as you would need to get past patrol's of guards or robots. Some ships are able to detect just about any life form like star trek. Now the Battleship above sure you might get on it but does that mean that they will not detect you ? You are stating they cannot see. Since when do sensors need to see the object visually unless its a passive devices like IR or Thermal. Also Blinding the sensors is a good way for people to notice.

You would think that a people who have been at war for years would have things to counter it. I could make a list so please just use logic and good judgment. Such big ships would have many sensor operators with sensors that detect things. So while they cannot see you good chances they can narrow down the location. They might not detect you right away. But whole sensors going down i would assume would get a security team to check such out.

For nearly every magic spell is a tech counter. Some cannot be countered due to the nature or power like Thoths spells to magic pigeon . If you are going to make bold claims on spells yet not give Tech its due or that they will detect you. Then i am sorry even palladium has admitted that spells do not make you undectedable. If you can see blinded then obviously you should put a blindfold on then feel around for about twenty minutes did that take it all away or were you able to adjust ? People who are blind have a better sense of smell and hearing also they use other senses like vibration.

So moving on.

I agree, all your thoughts on how some mystical heartbeat sensor is going to defeat a pair of spells that outright say that such sensors dont work have been thoroughly debunked. Not that anything i suggested was so bold as "teleport onboard and assault them in close combat". (You cant teleport yourself with Teleport: Lesser anyway; no living beings, just objects).

I suggested "sit far away in safety and teleport explosives onto the ship to blow it up in such a manner that there is nothing for them to detect". There's no vector for them to trace, no need for you to give yourself away.. nothing. Just a quick look at what im trying to teleport the object to, which can be accomplished with a telescope, binoculars, a remote video camera, clairvoyance, and several spells that allow distance-viewing.

It really just depends on what kind of resources (explosives) the mage can reliably lay his hands on. Enough Heavy Fusion Blocks can do some serious damage.. and they are only the size of a small briefcase. You can pretty easily load 10-20 of them up in a Carpet and teleport the whole shebang. And they are readily available on the market pretty much anywhere you can get guns and not terribly expensive.

If you have more cash and can lay your hands on a few LRM Warheads... can you say KABOOM?

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:00 am

eliakon wrote:to be fair, even if a caster DID have spells to be completely invisible (several different ways to do that), most mages are not going to be able to take out a warship on their own, especially not in one strike. And since invisibility gives a -10 to strike not a blanket immunity....Yes a warship with swarms of soldiers, and robots, and what ever is going to be able to take out a single mage or two or three. The biggest danger that an invisible person poses is things like espionage, spotting for enemy long range strikes, sabatoge and the like.

I would think that the major threat to a craft like this would be dealing with a zerg rush attack. Its pretty easy to kill of a pack of ten gargoyles, its much harder to kill a flock of thousands.

That -10 applies to melee combat. The chances of you hitting something that you can't see that is hundreds or thousands of feet away from you is pretty much nil. As the GM, I would consider it an automatic miss.

--flatline

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:54 pm

Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:
Commander wrote:
Colonel_Tetsuya wrote:Actually, Invisibilty: Superior straight up makes you invisible, period. (Even to robots and the like) And theres another relatively low level spell that makes you immune to sensors of all kinds.

As for having the spells.. They arent that high level that they woukd be hard to acquire. Invisibility: Superior is only 7th Level; sensor invisibility is even lower.

Also, Teleport: Simple and a good set of distancing binoculars + explosives makes for a devestating anti-vehicle punch that can be delivered from miles away and total concealment with literally ni chance of giving your location away. If you can get your hands on a few LRM warheads, Teleport: Simlple can sink warships or defeat heavy armor handily. Even a few heavy fusion blocks can seriously ruin your day when they are very suddenly stuck to you with a Carpet of Adhesion. A few seconds later and BOOM.

Again the fact they have no escorts or the fact that they will not detect some one is like saying that people with magic can do anything. And no invisibility does not make you invisible to everything. It depends on the spell. Read the spell description. Apparently people think they cannot be detected.

Because that is what the spell description for Invisibility: Superior says. Maybe YOU should read the spell description.

Here, ill make it easy for you:

RUE, Page212-213 wrote:A powerful incantation that makes the spell caster invisible to all means of detection. Ordinary vision, infrared, ultraviolet, and other optics, heat, motion detectors, and even an animals sense of smell, can NOT locate the invisible person. No footprints are made, and little sound (automatic 84% prowl)

That's as clear-cut as it gets. Invisible to all means of detection.

Again unless you hide in a bush have a visible place a ship can see with its sensors mile around with escorts and patrols of Robots or power armor. its quite pointless to teleport since you have zero idea where you are teleporting to as you have not seen it nor have personal knowledge of it.

Maybe you should read what i actually wrote. And then read the description for Teleport: Lesser. Im not suggesting you somehow teleport inside of the thing. Im suggesting that you use a pair of binoculars to see the target, and then teleport a warhead or warheads, or fusion blocks, straight onto it. If you want to make them hard to get rid of, you can first wrap them in a Carpet of Adhesion and then stick them to anywhere you can see.

This attack leaves no trace of where you came from and doesn't cause you to expose more than a pair of binoculars to possible sensors (which are miles away) - not that these sensors can see through brush, cover, trees, or terrain.

So unless you want to be detected getting on the deck you could try to random teleport. So you need to get in close. Most Battleships have Battlegroups that screen them. As do Carrier groups. Escorts that do a wonderful job of just that.

So if what you say was true i am sure the CS would loose the fleet of ships they have been building out on the Great Lakes. You still need to get close to the ship.

Actually, you dont. You just need to be able to see the ship and be within 5 miles PER LEVEL. Even a video feed relayed by someone at the front will do. Seriously, go read Teleport: Lesser. It's amazing.

NGR again is not the CS but they are aware of magic. I do not understand why people just assume if you have magic or the spell that you will just be able to do all these things with zero counters to it or that people will make people unaware.

Because there is no tech countermeasure to what im talking about. None. They have no way to prevent teleportation.

I am here to tell you you can be stopped or detected. They cannot see you but if some one using a motion detector will be able to detect movement. It does not make you undetectable as long as they are aware.

Funny, that's exactly what it (Invisibility: Superior) does. Invisibility to Sensors (level Six Combat Magic, which is actually just normal Invocation Magic that can be learned by anyone) makes you completely immune to all sensors other than optics; the "victim" can still save vs magic to see the caster normally as though the optics werent there. That's it. So, even if they make the save, all they get is normal, mark-1 eyeball vision on you. That's if they are even looking at you through optics, since it provides NO save for other sensors and makes you 100% immune to them. Read the spell.

Modern day sensors can detect heart beats.

Great. Both spells make you immune to those sensors, so that's totally irrelevant.

Not to mention have a troubleshooter squad to hunt such people down. Some ships will have guards posted at all times to times of ship emergency.

On another note spells that blind sensors will not blind them all. Spell description tells how far. With 600 to up to 100,000 people on a ship eventually some one is going to notice you sneaking into an area. If its a sea going vessel then they have guards walking the deck or Robots like the Skelebot or Dynabot. Not to mention the sensor operators whose job it is to detect such things.

Again, Invisibility: Superior makes you outright immune to the sensors. No save. Invisibility to Sensors only allows a save for them to see you through OPTICS; and even if they MAKE the save, they only see you as if they were looking at you with their eyeball - the optics themselve are useless. Says so right in the spell description. And ALL other sensors are 100% fooled. The two spells together make you 100% immune to detection by anything other than a dog boy at close range or a psychic with See Invisibility at EXTREMELY short range.

Most spells work on peoples mind as it tricks them into thinking no one is there. Countless Palladium books point this out. 7th level can be far away yet again they have to get the spell.

A lot of mages can start with it, actually. (None of the ones in the base book, but the Temporal classes can, and so can many of the alternate mages in Fed of Magic). Also, as discussed in the Book of Magic, 7th level is still within the realm of "if you have enough money you can usually just buy it". It isnt until you get to 9th+ that you have to start doing special jobs or quests.

Unless its an army of mages i do not see how they cannot detect you in some way. Nor how things will engage you that are not organic. So unless the spell states that it works on every one..not everything then you still can be detected. Now i am going back to making the escort class before this goes on and on. Magic VS Tech. One has counters to the other. Not saying Magic is Useless as you can use it to Detect or find just about anyone even do amazing things. Tech can do the same only its more limited. So just flying straight in at 7th level is kinda of foolish. So you will be shot at and people will be made aware you exist.

Ive already shot down your detection theory, so well move on to the next part: Go back and read what i actaully said. At no point did i advocate going anywhere near the ship. In fact, what i advocated was sitting about 3-20 miles away with either a remote camera feed or a good telescope or binoculars and simply teleporting bombs directly onto the hull of the ship to cause it to sink. There's nothing to track, no vector to trace, nothing. You're sailing along and the next thing you know there's a rolled up carpet of adhesion full of fusion blocks or missile warheads stuck to your hull at the waterline. And then BOOM. No way to interdict it. No way to even get to them to disarm them in time. I never have to reveal myself to your sensors. (There's actually even a few spells that can let you see far away good enough for the purposes of Teleport: Lesser).

How did they detect you ? Simply put that sensors that can pick up motion to heartbeat do not need eyes to see. now they will need to find you but they can call out coordinates to your position. More than one sensor operator nor does that mean that you will be able to find the senors or knock all of them out. Robots or Power armor will be patrolling as will a reaction force waiting to check out disturbances.

I imagine it would not be easy to get in as you would need to get past patrol's of guards or robots. Some ships are able to detect just about any life form like star trek. Now the Battleship above sure you might get on it but does that mean that they will not detect you ? You are stating they cannot see. Since when do sensors need to see the object visually unless its a passive devices like IR or Thermal. Also Blinding the sensors is a good way for people to notice.

You would think that a people who have been at war for years would have things to counter it. I could make a list so please just use logic and good judgment. Such big ships would have many sensor operators with sensors that detect things. So while they cannot see you good chances they can narrow down the location. They might not detect you right away. But whole sensors going down i would assume would get a security team to check such out.

For nearly every magic spell is a tech counter. Some cannot be countered due to the nature or power like Thoths spells to magic pigeon . If you are going to make bold claims on spells yet not give Tech its due or that they will detect you. Then i am sorry even palladium has admitted that spells do not make you undectedable. If you can see blinded then obviously you should put a blindfold on then feel around for about twenty minutes did that take it all away or were you able to adjust ? People who are blind have a better sense of smell and hearing also they use other senses like vibration.

So moving on.

I agree, all your thoughts on how some mystical heartbeat sensor is going to defeat a pair of spells that outright say that such sensors dont work have been thoroughly debunked. Not that anything i suggested was so bold as "teleport onboard and assault them in close combat". (You cant teleport yourself with Teleport: Lesser anyway; no living beings, just objects).

I suggested "sit far away in safety and teleport explosives onto the ship to blow it up in such a manner that there is nothing for them to detect". There's no vector for them to trace, no need for you to give yourself away.. nothing. Just a quick look at what im trying to teleport the object to, which can be accomplished with a telescope, binoculars, a remote video camera, clairvoyance, and several spells that allow distance-viewing.

It really just depends on what kind of resources (explosives) the mage can reliably lay his hands on. Enough Heavy Fusion Blocks can do some serious damage.. and they are only the size of a small briefcase. You can pretty easily load 10-20 of them up in a Carpet and teleport the whole shebang. And they are readily available on the market pretty much anywhere you can get guns and not terribly expensive.

If you have more cash and can lay your hands on a few LRM Warheads... can you say KABOOM?

Putting the issue to rest. Despite what it says in the books as i have yet to post the Destroyer class ship due to this going on i shall wait till the issue is put to rest before posting.

Tech VS Magic. I have reviewed the spell. Its the failure of the operator to detect the person not the device. Robots are in a quasi grey area. As are automated guns. Here are a few rules of thumb to handle such.

People can feel as they are being watched or have a Sixth Sense feeling. Superior Invisibility only works if no combat is engaged. Thus hand held devices or such being used by living beings will not work as the person fails to recognize the invisible person.

Should said person engage in hostile actions they become visible. That being said using good judgement i would say that any ship that is able to detect things hundreds of miles away have detected the person. Psychics might also mill about as the NGR does not use magic.

Now in this case due to it not being a starship but a ship none the less. Sensor operators are not seeing the object. Nor will a hand held device or anything that would be robot like. How ever since the NGR has things like Fusion reactors and the like to advanced sensors or nano bots i would assume that the ships automated defences will not see the intruder on passive devices like IR. How ever the spell says motion detectors.

So if you plan on flying right in laden down with a suitcase nuke or explosives thus are using a flying spell thus you have a chance to be detected. Patrols of craft not to mention robots patrolling the hull as it would be locked down against intruders. So avoiding patrols of robots and patrols of craft or robots.

A automated defense system will engage the said person if he or she is aggressive. It might not be able to see that person but it can try to track or target it. Robots like the Dyna-Bot, Skelebot or Sentry Bot Dv-40 or Archies robots all are able to process information or even computers. So if the computer recognizes an anomaly it will flag it.

Robots would have penalties to track or see what ever it is that is invisible due to a failure but illusions nor mind control works on them. They do not have a human mind as does a borg so the sensory input is not the same. So doing things or moving too fast also gives a chance for them to Detect. Not see them per se.

-30% To -40% as ghost like actions like bumping into people or the like. Increase +5% actions like bumping into someone ect. that some ghost or thing is aboard. They cannot see it but it exists. Also the person would be sneaking around. Anything that would constitute as not normal. Doors opening or some one puts a suitcase down yet the are not around. Remember if its hostile you loose Invisibility Superior spell. Is going to be suspicious.

Sections of the ship will have safeguards during wartime. Not to mention things locked down so intruders cannot get below decks. As for the robots if you do something that is odd as a computer can process things faster than a human than it can alert some one that a person or thing(even a Fairy) Is aboard.

Invisibility does not mean that said person avoids detection. If you look in RUE In the Magic Section the spells do cost something. So a mage might be reluctant unless they have good reasons for doing what people are trying to describe. I am not saying the person is not invisible to be clear but that once people are aware that strange events that Video Tape ect can be used to piece together if some one is on board the ship that should not be or even use psychics or robots to ferret out the intruder.

I am stating the person will need to be inventive. Ships sensors depending on the tech can do many things with a power source like a fusion reactor or nuclear reactor. Thus if people make a roll just using sensors if very high tech like spaceflight unless they have magic means of detection.

So this means if the person thinks some one is aboard or somehow the computer picks up an anomaly thus they cannot see it yet its flagged. Yet its on the deck or nearing the ship they can make a roll to see if they can spot it or they can use the sensors with a hefty penalty to be aware of the mage or person.

So any person who can see the invisible person make sounds or attract attention via automated weapons that fire at anything yet they cannot see it. Thus it takes good judgment. A mage who is careless thus thinking the motion detector would not pick them up on a automated weapon would fire at the mage who is flying faster than normal. It does not have a IFF or is a target it can see as it likely is telling the computer that something is moving. Computer says to fire at it as it is motion.

Thus robots have exceptions as they are not exactly tricked unless the magic is so powerful it really ignores common sense or logic. Thus it is used like the description. Exceptions will happen. Any Ship with expensive sensors, Plus a good crew and a power core might be able to figure things out in time.

As for Teleport i know that one also. Sure the question is why would some one spend all that money or favors ect to get that one spell only to die in a suicide attack. So unless the mage is rich or understands how to make or even how to steal a nuke even pay off the right people i am sorry to say that its unlikely this will happen.

I also want to point out that Archie has no problem through tracking or detecting Splugorth so i would assume if such people were to do such things it would be ferreted out NGR informants. So all of this would be a waste of time as the mage never reaches his destination going to pick up the bomb from the informant who arrests or kills the mage. It takes high tech in Rifts earth to have such a bomb. CS And NGR to name a few. Unless they want to go digging in Pre-Rifts missile silos then have to get the key to unlock or arm such a device even the pass codes that are long gone as Presidents or Prime Ministers ect are long dead with the access to even get a code.

Subject of Sensor Spells. So you need a target area even a Area of Effect Spell. AOE. So unless you plan on blanketing the communication towers and the ship. You need to know how it works. So you can disable or deactivate them with magic. Otherwise it would be silly to just throw spells around on the off chance that would happen. You would run out of PPE. Lets not forget that someone would notice.

Fallowed by alarms unless you know where you are going and what to disable. Otherwise you are shooting in the dark. Power Armor and Robots will be coming at you from all directions. Why lets ignore logic or good judgement. Oh right the mage has all these spells, he would not waste on a suicide attack that will fail.

Why do you ask ? As great as magic is it does have limitations. As Does tech. So going around randomly casting spells that would disable a hand held device or Security Camera but Radar ? Its hooked into the ships main power supply. You the caster unless you have a powerful version of it will need more power to blanket out the entire system Or several castings.

So the person with all these spells would be great for espionage learning what goes on as a spy. When the time is right plant a bomb. Problem is that only humans will be on board. So they might or might not catch the mage. It depends on the escape plan.

It would cost more wealth than to just hire a thousands of gargoyles or persuade them to destroy such a thing. Much easier than spending hundreds of thousands on spells or millions even all that time or effort only to be eaten by a Demon or such a mad quest end in so many ways before they would even be able to carry it out. Explosives sure i could see that. Infiltration i could see that also as the person with a forged papers a uniform via the black market ect. Sneaking around a bit.

But just bluntly flying in and no one noticing ? Not to mention the act of planting the bomb would make the person visible. Nor that people might sense what they cannot see even normal people ? Not to mention the personal sacrifice unless you plan on sneaking it aboard ? Also the question of does the person have spells to Make Sensors Not function ?

So much better to use a monster or demon heck send it into a Rift. Much less danger to a mage.

I think this discussion would be better suited for another topic as my wish was to post up Artillery and Air-Defenses not to mention man portable ones.

So the longer this off topic goes on the longer that people have to wait.

eliakon · Unread post by **eliakon** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:45 pm

*suggests splitting the discussion of what is or is not affected by various cloaking magic and how to/not to see/not see through them to its own thread and letting this one get back to the topic of air defenses.*

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:06 pm

eliakon wrote:*suggests splitting the discussion of what is or is not affected by various cloaking magic and how to/not to see/not see through them to its own thread and letting this one get back to the topic of air defenses.*

Agreed. That topic can be applied to a number of possible targets and security systems.
I want to see more tech-toys!

Colonel_Tetsuya · Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:24 pm

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=142556

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:55 pm

Vanguard Hover Destroyer Class

It is one of the more strange designs as it looks bug like despite its shark like head. It is well designed by Triax making it a marvel of innovation. This Destroyer Escort can engage targets with a new weapons system. Arc Ion Laser Beam System(A.I.L.B.S.) And the Multiple Warhead Missile System. (M.W.M.S.) Each ship is equipped to handle targets below water and above.

Its state of the art sensor system is a more robust and compact design yet it allows the ship to be vigilant in its escort duties. It also allows the ship perform its duty as a early warning detector and engaging targets beneath the ocean floor. Ability for it to float on its legs reduces the signature below water.

It secretly has built in stealth systems and even a force field! One of the key features is a optical camo effect that makes the bottom of it reflect the sky. So it appears as if it is just another cloud or the like. This is great as it can drift slowly collecting information or remain hidden.

This new design gives the NGR flexibility as it can respond to mass attacks. Help in evacuation efforts. It does have a small hangar for robots and power armor. This means it can act independently or work with other ships without loss of effectiveness. Each ship is named after Pre War German City's.

Model Type: Vanguard-Class-Destroyer
Class: Destroyer.
Crew:Ships Captain(Commander), X.O.(Lt. Commander), Communications Officer, Chief Engineer. Medical Officer, Gunnery Officer, Security Officer, 30 petty officers, 260 crewmen of various types & specialties.

Commander of Ships Forces.( Major), Second in command(Sgt. Major) 10 lower ranking officers, 15 N.C.O.'s(One Gunnery Sergeant. 14 Staff Sergeants.) Navy Air Wing Commander (Lt.Commander ) 30 robot pilots, 100 power armor pilots,(Armored Company) 30 techs. Often has a Special Forces Squad or Engineers on board.
100 T-31 Super trooper suits(30 being used by ships security)
100 X-10A Predators
30 X-2700 Dragonwing
300 worker bots
200 DV-12 Dyna bots(100 are used to help guard the outside of the ship)
200 Dv-15 Sentry bots(100 are used to guard key points inside the ship)
200 Dv-40 Hunter/Killer drones.(Dropped off to wage war in monster areas)
10 XM-U.A.V.
It can allow a single XM-170 Infantry Repair Barge To dock only or a XM-250 medical hover station.

M.D.C. By Location:

Topside Arc Ion Laser Beam Turret --200

Topside Forward Cylinder Multiple Missile Launching System.--300

*Main Body-- 3000

Bottom mounted Arc Ion Laser Beam Turret--200

Bottom Forward Mounted Cylinder Multiple Missile Launching System.-300

***Rear mounted sensor array.-100.

Shark Head/Bridge-500

**Upper Legs/Flight Thrusters(4)-300

**Lower Legs/VTOL Thrusters(4)-150

**Thruster Pods/Feet(4)-60

**VTOL Bottom Side Hover Thrusters.(4) 200

****Force Field--750

***Sensor Cluster(8)--50

*Depleting the M.D.C. of the Main Body will shut down The Hover Destroyer, Rendering it useless.

** If they are destroyed in uneven fashion or are destroyed the destroyer grounds in its location. It can lose one or two without unbalancing it then it has a 1-30% to start listing to one side. It takes no damage over water. A grounding does 1d6X100 damage to the hull.

***A Called Shot at -4 it will hit. Radar and communications must rely on secondary systems for each section of the ship . Thus no bonuses apply. Hitting all sensor devices. destroys all sensors and radar thus blinding the vessel. If half of the sensor clusters are down secondary systems take over are reduced to half as communications are limited. If all sensor masts are destroyed the crew must use its own sight and hearing.

****Experimental force field technology adapted from the X-1000 Ulti-Max Robot then later used on the ships. Once depleted it has a 1-20% of shorting out until repaired That will take 1D8 hours. It recharges in twenty four hours if shut off or 5O M.D.C. replaced every hour.

Speed:VTOL Hover System:Top Speed is 620 mph Cruising speed is 120 mph. Prowling speed is 15 mph. Unable to go past 1000 ft. Ship is able to enter water after a small conversion of the VTOL or Hover Systems. 60 mph in water Or it can use special ballast tanks in the feet to walk on the water speed is 30 mph.

Run speed on land: 60 mph.

Statistical Data:

Height:65 feet three inches.
Width:50 feet
Length:450 feet
Weight:20,523 Tons
Cargo:Every Crew member has a 3X3X3 foot locker for personal items. Each crew member has a bunk mate who shares the same bunk. Twelve bunks per room. Junior Officers get a four bed dorm room. Senior officers get a personal state room. A Main Armory is located in the Hangar area(most weapons are stored here. One squad of Dyna and Security bots with three staff.). Weapons Lockers are located at key points in the ship like the bridge engineering ect.(4 rifles 4 pistols. Six grenades. Survival Pack. Two Medical kits, three flares and Two IRMSS)

Marine Complement and Navy Robot Pilots use ship quarters listed above.

Power System: Nuclear Reactor(20 year life)

Black Market Cost:unavailable. Exclusive to the NGR. Construction Costs Run 15 billion.

Weapon Systems:

.1 Arc Ion Laser Beam System(A.I.L.B.S.)(2)Both of these main guns are on the top and bottom of the Destroyer mounted in dome turrets allowing it to have a 360 degree rotation and 180 Degree forward and back. It can pivot 60 degrees to one side or another.

It fires a laser that heats up the Ions thus creating a heat beam seconds later. . While the destroyer cannot go underwater it can hit sea monsters close to the surface, bots or ships. Anything flammable like dry trees clothing or the like catches fire.

Primary Purpose:Anti-Ship, Anti-Robot, Anti-Gargoyle, & Anti-Dragon
Secondary Purpose:Defense
Weight:30 tons
Rate of Fire:No more than once per round.
Mega-Damage:1D4x100
Effective Range:10,000 feet.(2000feet Underwater)
Payload:Unlimited.

.2 Multiple Warhead Missile System. (M.W.M.S.)(2)This innovative missle system is built into the hull as it uses Pods to deliver ordinance. Six pods can be launched from each one. With six chambers much like a revolver chamber only it holds two mini-missiles each or torpedoes. It can even swap out the Pods rocket engine for a propeller or vice versa!.

The Pods are the Perfect Delivery System. It can use standard mini-missiles or Special Types. Modular robotic technology has allowed this to be possible. It can shower the target with missiles. Allowing the Destroyer to take on a variety of enemies at close or medium range.

These mini-missiles use smart tech as they can lock on or the torpedos can use sonar it is limited to one mile. Each Mni-missle is paired with a twin or a Torpedo. Idea here is to shower the target and overwhelm its defences.

Primary Purpose:Artillery
Secondary Purpose:Defense
Mega-Damage:Use mini missle table or Special mini-missile types: Sticky Mines/Bombs 1D4x10 M.D.C. per missle/torpedo. Blast radius 5 ft. (sticks to target then detonates) Laser Armor Cutter. 1D6x10 M.D.C Blast Radius:None.(It surrounds target in a laser grid after it hits.) Volcano Mini missiles. 1D4X10 M.D.C. on impact with 4D6 M.D.C.for two melees Blast Radius:5ft ( The missle unleashes a liquid plasma/phosphate that keeps burning ) Zapper 2D4x10 M.D.C. Blast Radius: None.(Shocks target after it sticks unleashing its electrical charge.)
Effective Range: Each pod can deliver mini-missiles out to 50 miles with a mile range on the missiles. Underwater pods(Use mini-missle table for torpedos) 5 miles down with the pods and a mile for the mini-torpedoes.
Payload:7,200 mini-missiles. 1,440 Mini-Torpedoes(They come in special types also.)

.3 Force Field. Force Field is from the X-1000 Ulti-Max project as it was adapted and designed into the Destroyer as the A.L.B.I.S. was being co-developed.

750 M.D.C.

Sensor Notes:Advanced Fire Control and Targeting. Gets a +2 to Strike on Underwater and Air Targets. +1 to strike with Mini-missiles if someone is using a laser designator to highlight a target.

Advanced Radar Systems:(LADAR)500 mile range. 306 targets can be tracked simultaneously above 300 feet.

Advanced Sonar Systems: 10 mile range can track 30 underwater targets simultaneously.

Advanced Stealth System.:A.I.L.B.S cannot be used while in this mode nor can the force field be up. Ship has panels that are used to reflect the sky. 80% to prowl. -30% to detect on Read Sensor instruments.

VTOL Hover engines: VTOL Hover engines allow the Destroyer to be 50% maneuverable when these are engaged. It can hover over large bodies of water to more advanced maneuvers despite the ships bulk for a short time. One should keep in mind the mass of such a ship when performing such emergency maneuvers.

Precise thrusters:The Destroyers can fit through narrow passages and feats that would be plausible all except inverting the ship.

Advanced Modular Design:It can shift parts of the ship to make more space. It can swing its VTOL thruster arms down for more precise maneuvering or to land on land or water. Feet have special Ballast tanks to keep it afloat in each foot. It can walk on the ground like a four legged robot or walk across the water.

Space Age Design:It is able to operate in hostile environments. Even in space

Experimental Force Field Technology

Note:Only the thruster arms can unlock as the ship does not transform. It can shift or adjust decks to accommodate more troops in the hangars.

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:07 pm

Ion guns that can fire under water?

--flatline

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:09 pm

flatline wrote:Ion guns that can fire under water?

--flatline

Yes due to it heating up the the ions instead of just firing. So water heats up when the small laser fires as it is a conductor of heat. You can boil water so it loses no real effectiveness. Still does damage. Ie Heat Beam.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:07 pm

Commander wrote:Vanguard Hover Destroyer Class.

Wow, guess someone made it overseas and have begun infiltrating the NGR military. Watch out Rasheen.

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:17 pm

Commander wrote:
flatline wrote:Ion guns that can fire under water?

--flatline

Yes due to it heating up the the ions instead of just firing. So water heats up when the small laser fires as it is a conductor of heat. You can boil water so it loses no real effectiveness. Still does damage. Ie Heat Beam.

It seems like you've read about using a laser to create ionized air so that charged particles follow the path of the laser and you're assuming a similar effect will work under water. Am I close?

If so, consider the following: air is an insulator, so by creating a path of ionized air, you're creating a path for your charged particles to follow through an insulator. Non-distilled water, however, is a conductor. In fact, liquid water is a better conductor than most any vapor, including water vapor, so your laser boiling water will actually create a path that is, relatively speaking, an insulator compared to the liquid water around it. Do you expect the charged particles to follow it?

--flatline

Commander · Unread post by **Commander** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:01 am

flatline wrote:
Commander wrote:
flatline wrote:Ion guns that can fire under water?

--flatline

Yes due to it heating up the the ions instead of just firing. So water heats up when the small laser fires as it is a conductor of heat. You can boil water so it loses no real effectiveness. Still does damage. Ie Heat Beam.

It seems like you've read about using a laser to create ionized air so that charged particles follow the path of the laser and you're assuming a similar effect will work under water. Am I close?

If so, consider the following: air is an insulator, so by creating a path of ionized air, you're creating a path for your charged particles to follow through an insulator. Non-distilled water, however, is a conductor. In fact, liquid water is a better conductor than most any vapor, including water vapor, so your laser boiling water will actually create a path that is, relatively speaking, an insulator compared to the liquid water around it. Do you expect the charged particles to follow it?

--flatline

Well the idea was to create a useful weapon. I mean if Volcanos can heat up under water i mean its theoretically possible that the laser heating up the particles would not follow it or else the water would never really cool down if i understand the question correctly.

So the idea is to heat up ion particles as the small laser does this but the after effect is that it creates a heat beam of sorts meaning that the charged particles cool down. Otherwise it would heat the air thus overheat the gun thats why i did not allow it to fire more than once. Otherwise well who knows what would happen but it might melt the gun barrel. To Heat up the air around the destroyer so much it would cause a temperature change like a heat spike.

Even boil the seas that would be really bad if you started heating up the ocean.

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:20 am

Commander wrote:
flatline wrote:
Commander wrote:
flatline wrote:Ion guns that can fire under water?

--flatline

Yes due to it heating up the the ions instead of just firing. So water heats up when the small laser fires as it is a conductor of heat. You can boil water so it loses no real effectiveness. Still does damage. Ie Heat Beam.

It seems like you've read about using a laser to create ionized air so that charged particles follow the path of the laser and you're assuming a similar effect will work under water. Am I close?

If so, consider the following: air is an insulator, so by creating a path of ionized air, you're creating a path for your charged particles to follow through an insulator. Non-distilled water, however, is a conductor. In fact, liquid water is a better conductor than most any vapor, including water vapor, so your laser boiling water will actually create a path that is, relatively speaking, an insulator compared to the liquid water around it. Do you expect the charged particles to follow it?

--flatline

Well the idea was to create a useful weapon. I mean if Volcanos can heat up under water i mean its theoretically possible that the laser heating up the particles would not follow it or else the water would never really cool down if i understand the question correctly.

So the idea is to heat up ion particles as the small laser does this but the after effect is that it creates a heat beam of sorts meaning that the charged particles cool down. Otherwise it would heat the air thus overheat the gun thats why i did not allow it to fire more than once. Otherwise well who knows what would happen but it might melt the gun barrel. To Heat up the air around the destroyer so much it would cause a temperature change like a heat spike.

Even boil the seas that would be really bad if you started heating up the ocean.

Okay, if you're just looking for a weapon to use underwater, weapons that use particles are a bad idea unless they have a propulsion system built in (like a torpedo). Blue-green lasers work well enough since sea water is mostly transparent to them.

--flatline

eliakon · Unread post by **eliakon** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:50 am

In Palladium world, if you want to shoot an energy beam underwater use either Blue/Green Lasers, Ion Beams or Sonic Weapons. All of them have no range reduction. Why do Ion Beams get a pass? Who knows, but they do.