The Best Missile

[Tor]

Initially Rifts (and I think also Robotech) lacked the "x100" type missiles we had seen in SDC settings like HU. Coalition War Campaign introduced some higher-damage long-range missiles that were exclusive to the CS, and Triax 2 made it clear that NGR had also attained them. I'm not sure what other nations have access to these higher-damage versions, but the text in CWC was clear that both versions of damage coexist and that it was not merely retconning existing missiles.

Phase World introduced some very high-damage cruise missiles (such as carried by the Battleram) though the range they had seemed a bit inconssitent.

Overall though, in Rifts Sourcebook 4: Coalition Navy, page 48, would the Tomahawk cruise missile still basically be the most destructive missile in the Palladium megaverse?

While the anti-matter version of the Pop-Up Cruise Missile (Phase World p 135 and other places) does more damage, I've never been clear on the blast radius of that thing.

Anything do more than 3d4 or 4d6 in hundreds? I could've sworn there was some vague reference to a "time thousand" MD missile out there.

[glitterboy2098]

tomahawk currently has the biggest warhead.. 400 to 2400 md to everything in a 3 mile blast radius? yikes. other big missiles might do similar MD damage or more.. but none of them have that huge blast radius.

the downside? Tomahawk is subsonic, has a mere 1000 mile range, and can't be fit on everything that uses LRM's, just a few specific launcher's that say they can use them.

[drewkitty ~..~]

With in the last year I did a study of all the missile in current PB megavercial canon for something I'm working on.
(This does mean I did not look into the RT1/RT2 books for the project.)

So....all I had to say is this....

Any missile in rifts outside of the CS Navy book that has a mega-tonnage rating has be seriously nerfed to almost death. The best bet is to only believe the mega-ton ratings in the CS Navy book and just cross out in perm ink any words that are "mega-ton" in any other Rifts book.

Besides,.....it is not the missile that does the damage; unless it runs into the target, speed damage; it is the warhead that does the damage.

Cours if it is a Anti-Matter war head or drive then you's add the warhead's damage to the speed damage. Not sure how much damage to add from a AM drive that looses containment on impact. There is too many calculations to do (the drive eats up the AM so the amount of AM is a variable), that I don't know how to do.

In the 3G setting the most effective missile is the phase penetrator missile. It explodes inside the ship's armor.
The smartest missile is more like a smart kamikaze drone. It is in the Naruni:wave 2 book. (hummmm what happened to wave one? *ponders* )

[Tor]

By speed damage do you mean that whole +4dmg per 20mph we see in HU? I kind of like the idea of adding it... although it would be reduced if you rolled with it (much like a frag payload, but not a plasma one).

Has any of the places where the anti-matter cruise missiles (I assume 3 galaxies tech) every been specific about the blast radius? It does more damage than the CS' best but the CS best mentions radius and I'm not sure if the anti-matters ever have.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Crash Damage Page 89 HUr2 MB.

Using the under 1000 lb. table.
SRM: crash damage: @200mph 1d6x20, @300mph 1d6x30, @450 1d6x45, @500 mph:1d6x50, @650 mph 1d6x65

skips MRM

LRM crash damage: @ 1400 1d6x1400, @2010 1d6x2010

Even @ +4 SD per 20mph (which is found in a super power and describing how much more damage a person would do 'at speed'): 200mph is +40 SD and @ 2010mph is +48 SD Not even taking in account of the SD done by the weight for the impactor (Damage from heavy object pg. 55 HUGMG). However, finding a weights for individual missiles in PB text is like hunting for a needle in a hay stack.

[glitterboy2098]

best you can find is the robotech 2nd ed weights..

compilation from various entries in the mecha stats..

Mini-missile - 5lbs/2.25kg Missile Size: 60mm, 70mm, 78mm
Short Ranged Missile - 33lbs/15kg Missile Size: 190mm, 178mm
Medium Range Missile - 80lbs/36.6kg Missile Size: 178mm, 377mm, 530mm
Long Range Missile - 1000lbs/450kg Missile Size: 430mm, 800mm, 914.4mm

[Tor]

Knowing the dimensions would also be useful, since some powers are volume or length based instead of weight-based. Figuring out if a missile is small enough for a Dream Maker or Morpheomoth to create it within their realms, for example.

While I don't think I've ever seen dimensions directly given, you can approximate their range somewhat based on various weapons or robot vehicles capable of storing and launching missiles.

In RiftsWB5(Triax1)p121 with the XM-140 we can see an illustration of just how huge an LRM is. We know the length of the platform is 20 feet, so I would say an LRM is at LEAST that long. Personally I think the LRM actually looks to project slightly behind and in front of the platform, so they're more likely to be 25-30 feet long.

We can also estimate the height, because the XM-140, normally 6ft, is 8ft with missile in lowest position, meaning that LRMs are at least 2 feet tall. My guess is they're probably taller, and that the lower portion of the missile actually sinks into the platform.

How is this feasible even though I think the LRM is longer than the vehicle? That's because the walls are not consistent. If you look at binoculars-guy who is standing up, the reason we can see his knees is because the wall sinks down a bit, between the 2 walls with "15" painted on them. I expect in the lowest position, the LRM missile rotates so that it protects through that opening. What we see in the picture is not the lowest position, I think. If we look at even the top of the tailfins of the missile (which is the lowest point, since it slopes up), that height is about equivalent to the main body, or 6 added feet for a total of 12 (and that's just at the lowest point) instead of 8, so sinking the missile into (through) the main body is really the only way, and I think doing that would limit the number of personal who could ride on it. I expect we would only see this done when the XM-140 is put into storage, like when it is carried on pg141's XM-288.

So yeah, my estimation is that LRMs are ~25 long and with a diameter of ~6ft (a radius of 3feet) based on the 140. Any other specific references indicate otherwise?

There is the Iron Bolt on page 110 of Rifts Mercs. We know that the LRMs are in the top portion (my guess is the middle one, since the holes are bigger, though we can't go too much by the illustration since it has rows of 5 columns and the stats say rows of 6), and that the overall length of the vehicle is 32 feet, but the bottom portion looks to be longer than the top portion, so the top might be something more like ~25 feet. Based on this, my previous length estimate might've been a bit big, and perhaps I should guess that LRMs are more like 22 feet long? Heck, make it 21, multiples of 3 are nice.

The most confusing thing about this vehicle is the width. Merely 10 feet wide means even if we went by the illustration and the top was only 5 LRMs wide (stats say 6) this would mean that each missile would have to have a diameter of 2 feet, so that's way thinner than my estimate based on the thick-looking appearance of LRMs in NGR's XM-140. I mean... if you hold Mercsp144 up next to NGRp121, I guess I can't picture those thick-looking things filling those dimensions in the Iron Bolt. If we go by the stats saying 6, this means 10/6 = 5/3 = 1'8" diameter per LRM, and it'd be even less than that (probably 1.5 feet LRM diameter) because we have to take into account the side casing of the missile launchers AND the internal dividers separating them. Not only that, but 'width' tends to represent the WIDEST dimension and the base of the vehicle appears wider than the top (much as it appears longer on the bottom than on the top) which, if we incorporate that and don't make the missile dividers and armor paper-thin, probably gives LRMs a diameter of 1 foot, which is way too thin to make sense with the lengths we acquire from NGR.

[glitterboy2098]

note that the CS nighthawk also showsLRm's.. 3 per wing. and those are no where near SLBM sized, closer top the LRm's from robotech's VF-1. 5-6ft long, nor more than 2-3 ft wide. same for the CS's F-14's.. those are the size of Phoenix missiles. (about 6ft long, 2ft wide)


this is why art is not fully canon.. it is too inconsistent, both in appearance and in relation to the rules.

[Tor]

I guess I should go more by stats than illustrations, in the case of the annoying Iron Bolt this means I do have to go with 6 missiles width, but on the other hand, I could choose to assume that the top holding the missiles is just as wide as the base. If the picture can be wrong about how many missiles in a row it can be wrong about it having a stable design too.