Steve Carroll wrote:The update was just posted. The explanations seem good to me. We will see in the next update Friday or Saturday. Hopefully some pictures of the Assembled piece without the glue and primer gunk so we can see what was described originally and not what we were shown.
We'll see. Even if the models look fantastic assembled, it doesn't address the problem that the number of pieces required for assembly is going to be a significant barrier to entry for some people. Hyper detail is great, but if they stay sitting in the box, it's not a great outcome.
Wayne did say that the particular piece shown has more pieces than the average and that the customizable pieces were included in that image. So, not as many as feared, still alot though. We won't really know how many pieces the others come in until we are shown however, but not as many as that one at least we know.
Ninja'd by Jorel!
One of the Creative Minds behind the Blocker Combat Robot!
I have over 1200 miniatures coming. I may have spent too much... not to support PB, but to support Robotech getting more love.
I have a feeling that without selling a kidney and maybe 2 legs, they'll never be put together and will end up on ebay in 20 years when I die from a little debbie and mountain dew overdose.
At least they are plastic and I can use plastic glue and get a buzz while assembling them, instead of superglue that tends to make my fingers less than sensitive for a few days after any miniature assembling spree.
Any way somebody could compare the size of the constructed Spartan to a Battletech Archer? I'd love to see if I need to get all my macross battletech painted in RDF colors
Jorel wrote:he says that is the worst of them, not that they are all 20+ piece units
Of the three figures we've seen, the Spartan is around 34, the Veritech was around 21 (22?) and the Battlepod was around 15 (I think someone said 16, but counting the base is wrong, because I said so).
20'ish seems like around average at this rate, and unless the Lancer and Ghost are a single piece each, that seems unlikely to change much.
But hey, don't worry Jorel.
It probably won't be 7,000 pieces.
More like 4,000! Way less! Nearly half what you were worried about!
Maybe this poses a good opportunity for a second kickstarter? Now that people have seen what will be involved in assembling the miniatures, they should have the opportunity ot upgrade their pledge to the already assembled and painted units. In the original kickstarter, there was only going to be a limited number of already assembled units being sold - that number would obviously have to rise too or better yet, remove the limit altogether.
This will be my first foray into miniatures, and miniature gaming. I got into it because it interested me (and to support both Palladium and Robotech), and by the time I pledged the Battle Cry was a bargain that couldnt be passed up.
That said, as someone new to miniatures it also is starting to seem like I probably will never get to play the game, nor get any units outside of my original pledge. If those with great experience are on the fence, or just this side of 'ok' regarding assembly that doesn't exactly fill me with hope as a novice.
13 months of dedicated work before one can even play the game? How many hours a night exactly? Cause I get the feeling that for me the time is gonna be 5x that...
How come these Cthulhu mini's are so awesomely detailed in cool poses without having to be assembled from 40 tiny bits of plastic you have to sand, glue, patch and paint?
Sheesh what a mess.
I feel sorry for anyone who has to do all that work just to play essentially a boardgame.
Just think of how different the two unboxing experiences are going to be at Gen Con (in theory).
Cthulhu Wars...."Holy throbbing tentacles! By Nyarlathotep's gaping maw...let's play this frukker! NOW!!!"
Robotech RPG Tactics.....[consumer shakes the box, a head scratch, then the opening]..."You gotta be kidding me! Is this a joke? There must be 3000 little bits in here. Where's the RPG part of this game, unless RPG stands for Ridiculous [amount of] Preparation [needed to play] Game?"
“It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.” - Anton LaVey
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." - Voltaire
"The die is cast." - Julius Caesar [Ultimate Powergamer]
Jorel wrote:I'm glad we got an answer. I'm kinda surprised that there are still a lot of unsatisfied voices and many of them seem now to me.
You're surprised? Wayne's explanation doesn't change the product we were shown. If you thought the minis looked like bad gashapon offerings due to the static poses (and, no, just changing the angle of the limbs on a sagittal plane doesn't make it dynamic) and ugly multiple seams running across the front, simply being told "that's the way it'll be" doesn't change that. Do we know whether or not we're getting multiple sculpts for each mecha? In a pack of three destroids, will we get three identical sprues or will there be multiple models with varying poses that don't just change the swing of the identical arms? Wayne telling me that's the best they can do when other companies do so much better (check out the terminator sprues from Space Hulk for very well designed 2-4 piece models the same size as veritechs that have varied 3D poses and details on all sides with less than a quarter the number of pieces) isn't comforting. The june delivery date is a unlikely (and that is the *nice* way of putting it) and we have substandard looking models to account for the extra 8 months and counting that the project has been delayed.
edit: Before some misinformed person starts arguing against adding chains, medals, and ribbon bling to Robotech models, that's not why I wrote that above. It is simply to point and that multidimensional raised detail on a minimal amount of pieces is definitely possible despite those model shapes (40k terminators) being designed in the late 1980's without consideration for plastic molds much like Robotech. The early 1990's plastic terminators that followed years after the initial metal ones have the same posability as these Robotech 2014 offerings. If the goal for this 2014 game is to look like it was designed and made in 1994 (similar to the metal Rifts minis offerings), then stay the same course. If the goal is instead to live up to the "mouth watering miniatures" talk from last year, some significant course correction is needed and quickly.
Congratulations, Palladium Books. You just threw away a customer of 28 years because of how you handled Robotech Tactics.
*I* do NOT want poseable. 1-3 options in position is fine, but I hate having stuff that looks like its moving when it sits on my shelf. Plus the extra time, lessened durability, and extra complexity of the the miniatures themselves.
I am fine with 1980s miniatures. In fact, the battletech "unseen" of all the macross designs still look pretty darned good to me. These aren't humans, they are 30' tall robots with lots of flat surfaces. They simply aren't that detailed, and they are mirroring a cartoon that didn't have that much detail in the mecha, or heck, even the characters and their japanimation faces. I can't see any reason why the 1.5" tall miniatures should look any better than the 10" version on my TV screen.
I also am not sure about complaining any modern miniature manufacturer to GW. I don't want to defend them, $50 for a codex is insane, but they have been doing miniatures, and LOTS of them, for decades. They have some of the best artists in the industry IMO, and are extremely experienced and produce the miniatures themselves. They seem like what all miniature producers should be striving to be, not feebly attempting to emulate. Also, look at the price differences, that alone should mean the Robotech minis won't be as good as GW.
The excessive pieces are a bit much IMO, the seams a major red flag, the missing PDF rulebook a personal annoyance, and the vague communication highly suspect, but overall I still have confidence in this project, and hope it becomes an extreme success as I'd like to see the other Robotech stuff, Rifts, and maybe even Macross II in the future.
I have notified Wayne, Kevin and Jeff Burke of this thread.
In the mean time, though I do understand your grievances, let us remember this is Palladiums Forums. Criticism is welcomed, but trolling and outright insulting Palladium on THEIR forums will NOT be tolerated. Some of you are edging close to the line.
Keep the comments and criticism CONSTRUCTIVE and there wont be any problems.
"Freedom is the recognition that no single person, no single authority or government has a monopoly on the truth, but that every individual life is infinitely precious, that every one of us put on this world has been put there for a reason and has something to offer." Megaversal Ambassador Coordinator My GoFund Me - Help Me Walk Again
NMI wrote:Keep the comments and criticism CONSTRUCTIVE and there wont be any problems.
Can somebody with good graphics ability make me a flyer I can hang up at my local gaming store a month or so before it ships? This way I can do some advertising and hopefully run a bunch of games and start trying to recruit the 40k crowds. Granted, no rush now, but something that would be useful at some point in the near future.
I've read that some Customers are asking for Refund and are being turned down. is this a reversal of the position taken with the Northren Gun Insiders where we were told we could receive refunds if we were unsatisfied with the progress of the project?
Give another Gamer a hand up with his education. "By no means am I an expert on Southern Cross (I cordially detest the series)"-Seto "Truth is determined by the evidence, not some nonexistent seniority system."-Seto
NMI wrote:Keep the comments and criticism CONSTRUCTIVE and there wont be any problems.
Can somebody with good graphics ability make me a flyer I can hang up at my local gaming store a month or so before it ships? This way I can do some advertising and hopefully run a bunch of games and start trying to recruit the 40k crowds. Granted, no rush now, but something that would be useful at some point in the near future.
Good initiative, I'd contact the Megaversal Ambassador program (or go a step further and actually call the office). I'm sure MadManMike or one of the other Pally artists could whip up an awesome flyer.
"I flew back to the states just to vote for Trump." Mumpsimus can be defined as someone who obstinately clings to an error, bad habit or prejudice, even after the foible has been exposed. I will not answer posts/questions/accusations by people on my foes list. The Ugly Truth - Carl Gleba on the Cabal of 24. Rifts® Online: Megaversal Highway.
I think your dedication to details is great and I commend you all for getting it done. All I ask gentlemen that for the vf-1 in battroid mode and the rest of the mecha line, could we have leg options that will allow for a model to be dynamically posed? One of the reasons I dropped battletech years ago was that everybody's models looked the same and it didn't allow for much creativity with their monoposes. I think the idea of zentradi MPA posed like its about to drop kick a valkyrie would be awesome! Thank you kindly for your time.
Shawn Merrow wrote:After Wayne's update not worried but I'm good at the assembly line when putting similar units together.
Me either. I assembled a few groups of infantry for Warmachine the other day, and was confused as to what people were actually complaining about.
Ziggurat the Eternal wrote:I'm not sure if its possible, but if it isn't, then possible will just have to get over it.
Ninjabunny wrote:You are playing to have fun and be a part of a story,no one is aiming to "beat" the GM, nor should any GM be looking to beat his players.
Marrowlight wrote: The Shameless Plug would be a good new account name for you.
I think that most of the complaints come from people who aren't familiar or experienced and it seems like a lot more work than they either planned for or in my case may be capable of. I didn't realize it would be assembling so many small parts. I thought it would be a few bigger pieces and a few small ones.
Customer Service Director for Northern Gun
"The Devil's among us! Stay back boy!...This calls for Divine Intervention! I kick arse for the Lord!" -Father McGruder- Braindead (a.k.a. Dead Alive)
Colonel Wolfe wrote:I've read that some Customers are asking for Refund and are being turned down. is this a reversal of the position taken with the Northren Gun Insiders where we were told we could receive refunds if we were unsatisfied with the progress of the project?
I do not speak for Palladium.
However given that this project is through Kickstarter, and not in-house (as the NG books were), the option of a Refund for simply not agreeing with or liking a finished product may not actually be there, terms of service and what-not.
I may be wrong, but I can't find anything about refunds on Kickstarter outside of non-completion of a product (and not liking how the product turns out is not the same as non-completion).
Last edited by 13eowulf on Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I now fear that the Later eras won't be possible in this scale with these models being broken up in to 20-30 pieces per model... the VHT at this scale is going to be 22 MM tall... if its broken into as many pieces as the Spartan Its going to be impossible... even worse would be cyclones broken up into pieces...
Give another Gamer a hand up with his education. "By no means am I an expert on Southern Cross (I cordially detest the series)"-Seto "Truth is determined by the evidence, not some nonexistent seniority system."-Seto
Colonel Wolfe wrote:I've read that some Customers are asking for Refund and are being turned down. is this a reversal of the position taken with the Northren Gun Insiders where we were told we could receive refunds if we were unsatisfied with the progress of the project?
I do not speak for Palladium.
However given that this project is through Kickstarter, and not in-house (as the NG books were), the option of a Refund for simply not agreeing with or liking a finished product may not actually be there, terms of service and what-not.
I may be wrong, but I can find anything about refunds on Kickstarter outside of non-completion of a product (and not liking how the product turns out is not the same as non-completion).
The TOU on Kickstsrter also says "Project Creators agree to make a good faith attempt to fulfill each reward by its Estimated Delivery Date." and as Tommy Yune a Director at Harmony Gold has been saying the game is delayed until December 2014 while answering questions on the Robotech convention tour....
Give another Gamer a hand up with his education. "By no means am I an expert on Southern Cross (I cordially detest the series)"-Seto "Truth is determined by the evidence, not some nonexistent seniority system."-Seto
Colonel Wolfe wrote:I've read that some Customers are asking for Refund and are being turned down. is this a reversal of the position taken with the Northren Gun Insiders where we were told we could receive refunds if we were unsatisfied with the progress of the project?
I do not speak for Palladium.
However given that this project is through Kickstarter, and not in-house (as the NG books were), the option of a Refund for simply not agreeing with or liking a finished product may not actually be there, terms of service and what-not.
I may be wrong, but I can find anything about refunds on Kickstarter outside of non-completion of a product (and not liking how the product turns out is not the same as non-completion).
The TOU on Kickstsrter also says "Project Creators agree to make a good faith attempt to fulfill each reward by its Estimated Delivery Date." and as Tommy Yune a Director at Harmony Gold has been saying the game is delayed until December 2014 while answering questions on the Robotech convention tour....
Then perhaps as part of the contract HG (or maybe ND, or both) has a say in whether or not refunds be made available, from what you quoted there it isnt a requirement to deliver, just be able to show that good faith attempts have been made. We just dont have enough information to make any assumptions, but I doubt the answer is in any way simple.
Tommy said what? So now it's been moved back to December? I sincerely hope the powers that be take the extra time to make bits that will combine to make outstanding mini dioramas. I thought the parts breakdown for Max and Miriya was fine. I still got some awesome preview minis.
We do know that through Kickstarter there are no refunds as they are producing the game they said they would and the date says estimate right before it so there is no question. They have violated nothing and there is no reason to refund. Palladium has also stated that they will not do refunds at this point. They are using the money to build the game and likely don't have that much extra when you consider they have to pay double shipping and they mentioned the creation taking more money than they initially planned. It isn't like anyone is actually signed or violated any contracts. Palladium is busting there hump to get us and a quality product and it is costing them their profits. They are not just sitting on piles of money that they can just give back.
Customer Service Director for Northern Gun
"The Devil's among us! Stay back boy!...This calls for Divine Intervention! I kick arse for the Lord!" -Father McGruder- Braindead (a.k.a. Dead Alive)
Presumably the December date is a reflection of their desire to get boxes on store shelves at retail in time for the christmas shopping season. Palladium has stated in a definitive fashion that RRT will be at Gencon (August), and the current (slowly shrinking) delivery to backers target is "The end of June, maybe early May".
Jorel wrote:think you meant July not may as in "Early July"
No, I meant exactly what I said.
Update #128 Jan 30 2014 Special Robotech® RPG Tactics™ Update – January 30, 2014
Wave One products will ship to Kickstarter supporters as soon as we get them; probably early June, 2014. If we’re really lucky, possibly in May. A few weeks later, the Wave One products will ship to distributors.
Release Dates: Ships in early June to Kickstarter supporters. Ships a few weeks later to distributors. Should be in your hands no later than June and in stores by the beginning of July, 2014.
Which means my numbers regarding the end of June are even more generous than I thought.
Yes, that was a mistake on my end. Posting between reports at work, got turned around mentally for a moment.
Point stands, they said June. It's mid March and the molds aren't even done. It'd take a miracle to begin firing packages off to backers in June at this point.
And before anyone bothers bringing it up, they're already taking a bath on Shipping and Handling with the 2 wave approach. It'd be utterly shocking if they paid to air-freight this much stuff too.
The Galactus Kid wrote:Me either. I assembled a few groups of infantry for Warmachine the other day, and was confused as to what people were actually complaining about.
I think a lot of the complaints about the number of pieces are really coming from those of us at the Showdown and Reckless pledges. Personally, my friend and I went in on a double Reckless, so that would be a HUGE undertaking...
It might help if Palladium would SPECIFICALLY state that the pieces being shown (in BOLD letters so to speak) are NOT the final product and are not even from the molds that are being created. A line breezing past that fact in the middle of an update gets missed.
On the topic of Further Kickstarter expansions for Human sized and slightly larger figures (Cyclone Riders, etc.), check out a lot of the 6mm wargames. You can get a lot of detail and still have the small figures and have them in a single mold. Now, at that scale however, I do not know if they could be done with plastic. They would most likely need to be metal (if I am wrong please point me in the right direction guys ). However, 6mm metal wargamming is VERY reasonably priced, especially for the number of figures you can get at one time!
One of the Creative Minds behind the Blocker Combat Robot!
Colonel Wolfe wrote:I've read that some Customers are asking for Refund and are being turned down. is this a reversal of the position taken with the Northren Gun Insiders where we were told we could receive refunds if we were unsatisfied with the progress of the project?
I do not speak for Palladium.
However given that this project is through Kickstarter, and not in-house (as the NG books were), the option of a Refund for simply not agreeing with or liking a finished product may not actually be there, terms of service and what-not.
I may be wrong, but I can find anything about refunds on Kickstarter outside of non-completion of a product (and not liking how the product turns out is not the same as non-completion).
The TOU on Kickstsrter also says "Project Creators agree to make a good faith attempt to fulfill each reward by its Estimated Delivery Date." and as Tommy Yune a Director at Harmony Gold has been saying the game is delayed until December 2014 while answering questions on the Robotech convention tour....
Myself and others would like to see/hear proof of that. More specifically, VERIFIABLE proof.
"Freedom is the recognition that no single person, no single authority or government has a monopoly on the truth, but that every individual life is infinitely precious, that every one of us put on this world has been put there for a reason and has something to offer." Megaversal Ambassador Coordinator My GoFund Me - Help Me Walk Again
Colonel Wolfe wrote:I've read that some Customers are asking for Refund and are being turned down. is this a reversal of the position taken with the Northren Gun Insiders where we were told we could receive refunds if we were unsatisfied with the progress of the project?
I do not speak for Palladium.
However given that this project is through Kickstarter, and not in-house (as the NG books were), the option of a Refund for simply not agreeing with or liking a finished product may not actually be there, terms of service and what-not.
I may be wrong, but I can find anything about refunds on Kickstarter outside of non-completion of a product (and not liking how the product turns out is not the same as non-completion).
The TOU on Kickstsrter also says "Project Creators agree to make a good faith attempt to fulfill each reward by its Estimated Delivery Date." and as Tommy Yune a Director at Harmony Gold has been saying the game is delayed until December 2014 while answering questions on the Robotech convention tour....
Myself and others would like to see/hear proof of that. More specifically, VERIFIABLE proof.
I suspect it's just a case of a simple mistake combined with a misquote. He quoted at AODCON panel may to june but a later slide mentioned "scheduled to ship in december" but didn't have a year attached.
Is it possible to get the rules done and in our hands? Some of us do not need the minis to actually play the game. Counters/standees will suffice for most of us. We DO need the rules however. I can run a demo at my local con with just the rules. Well not the next one as it is less than two weeks away but I know I can certainly run the game in September IF I had the rules, regardless of having the minis or not.
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of the day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree
jaymz wrote:Is it possible to get the rules done and in our hands? Some of us do not need the minis to actually play the game. Counters/standees will suffice for most of us. We DO need the rules however. I can run a demo at my local con with just the rules. Well not the next one as it is less than two weeks away but I know I can certainly run the game in September IF I had the rules, regardless of having the minis or not.
I'd like to second this. I've kickstarted quite a few other miniature based skirmish games, and they've all released PDF rules. Not always to non-kickstarter folks, but almost always released. It would be nice if we could know the rules and actually run some games ourselves at Gencon.
bielmic wrote:I suspect it's just a case of a simple mistake combined with a misquote. He quoted at AODCON panel may to june but a later slide mentioned "scheduled to ship in december" but didn't have a year attached.
Is it possible to get the rules done and in our hands? Some of us do not need the minis to actually play the game. Counters/standees will suffice for most of us. We DO need the rules however. I can run a demo at my local con with just the rules. Well not the next one as it is less than two weeks away but I know I can certainly run the game in September IF I had the rules, regardless of having the minis or not.
Haven't they already had a PDF posted on the Kickstarter or something? I know I have seen the rules somewhere. They are virtually the same as Rifts except you use a D6 instead of a D20.
NMI wrote:Keep the comments and criticism CONSTRUCTIVE and there wont be any problems.
Can somebody with good graphics ability make me a flyer I can hang up at my local gaming store a month or so before it ships? This way I can do some advertising and hopefully run a bunch of games and start trying to recruit the 40k crowds. Granted, no rush now, but something that would be useful at some point in the near future.
We are working on trying to get something for everyone- trust me, we are working on trying to make this roll-out memorable, and I have been working on the posters/flyers issue for a while now.
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NMI wrote:Keep the comments and criticism CONSTRUCTIVE and there wont be any problems.
Can somebody with good graphics ability make me a flyer I can hang up at my local gaming store a month or so before it ships? This way I can do some advertising and hopefully run a bunch of games and start trying to recruit the 40k crowds. Granted, no rush now, but something that would be useful at some point in the near future.
We are working on trying to get something for everyone- trust me, we are working on trying to make this roll-out memorable, and I have been working on the posters/flyers issue for a while now.
The problem is, is that we 4 Coordinators can't just whip something up and push it out to you guys as flyers/posters/etc... because from our understanding of a talk we had with Palladium on this very subject is that Harmony Gold/Tommy Yune have licensing/approval rights on any new art related to Robotech. I believe we can use existing art and whip something together in Photoshop [or GIMP], but we'll need to work with PB on that.
It is an awesome suggestion.
"Freedom is the recognition that no single person, no single authority or government has a monopoly on the truth, but that every individual life is infinitely precious, that every one of us put on this world has been put there for a reason and has something to offer." Megaversal Ambassador Coordinator My GoFund Me - Help Me Walk Again
NMI wrote:Keep the comments and criticism CONSTRUCTIVE and there wont be any problems.
Can somebody with good graphics ability make me a flyer I can hang up at my local gaming store a month or so before it ships? This way I can do some advertising and hopefully run a bunch of games and start trying to recruit the 40k crowds. Granted, no rush now, but something that would be useful at some point in the near future.
We are working on trying to get something for everyone- trust me, we are working on trying to make this roll-out memorable, and I have been working on the posters/flyers issue for a while now.
The problem is, is that we 4 Coordinators can't just whip something up and push it out to you guys as flyers/posters/etc... because from our understanding of a talk we had with Palladium on this very subject is that Harmony Gold/Tommy Yune have licensing/approval rights on any new art related to Robotech. I believe we can use existing art and whip something together in Photoshop [or GIMP], but we'll need to work with PB on that.
It is an awesome suggestion.
I'm all for it it just galls me that HG as usual messes with us fans. NMI I can't wait to see what you or the other moderators come up with. I'm eagerly awaiting you results.
The only rule I have seen are not as all encompassing as you think. Also I mean the actual finalized rules not rules in progress. By this pint they should have these done shouldn't they? I mean if production is to begin and minis are to ship by July you'd think the rules would at a least be completed by now. It would be a good bone to throw to the rabid masses.
Edit - And mean full rules with the game stats etc. maybe the game cards as those are separate from the minis themselves and something (printing a paper product) Palladium is actually experienced in and has more direct control over (as in not needing to worry about things like Chinese new year or factory issues)
I just think releasing the above would actually relieve much if the tension and anger that is growing since it would let us see how awesome the game itself is going to be.
Last edited by jaymz on Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am very opinionated. Yes I rub people the wrong way but at the end of the day I just enjoy good hard discussion and will gladly walk away agreeing to not agree
