Noticed something odd in the Priest of Light

[Thinyser]

So under the prayer of intervention it gives the option to cast any spell the god knows at an effective strength 5 levels above their actual level. Success rate is 21% +7% per level. So at level 5 the Priest has a 56% chance to cast any spell known by their patron deity at 10th level ability... This is better then the miracles that are supposed to be limited and this is a prayer you can do pretty much whenever just like super healing (also part of the prayer of intervention.)

Isis knows all wizard magic, including all spells of legend. Ra knows all elemental spells and all wiz spells from levels 1-7. Thoth knows all magic except for elemental and necromantic magic. The possibilities are pretty much endless depending on which deity you worship.

I'm not sure as a GM how I would handle this. Should it be allowed anytime like Super healing or be limited like miracles?

[Tor]

It's a pretty sweet level, you could even (since it doesn't include any limitation preventing it) cast a spell at a HIGHER level than the god in question, if it were a god with rather low-level spellcasting abilities.

Priests aren't even limited to learning spells that the god knows nowadays. Apparently even if the god doesn't know a spell, he can impart it to a priest, which is why Viracocha's priests can do all that elemental stuff (not even Illapa's priests can do air elemental spells, LOL). In classic PRPG the priests were limited to casting spells the god knew, had to pick your patron more carefully then I s'pose.

This really adds cool reasons why gods (especially less-magerific ones) would desire priests.

[Thinyser]

It's a pretty sweet level, you could even (since it doesn't include any limitation preventing it) cast a spell at a HIGHER level than the god in question, if it were a god with rather low-level spellcasting abilities.

Priests aren't even limited to learning spells that the god knows nowadays. Apparently even if the god doesn't know a spell, he can impart it to a priest, which is why Viracocha's priests can do all that elemental stuff (not even Illapa's priests can do air elemental spells, LOL). In classic PRPG the priests were limited to casting spells the god knew, had to pick your patron more carefully then I s'pose.

This really adds cool reasons why gods (especially less-magerific ones) would desire priests.

So the priestess in our group (who is 4th level) worships Isis (who knows all wizard spells, even spells of legend).
She (the priestess) is the secondary character of our Player who plays the Longbowman as his primary PC. We told him he either attacks or heals just to simplify matters for him since its only his time playing PFRPG. Anyhow I don't want to short change him by not fully utilizing her (the priestess') abilities. Being that the goddess has taken an active interest in our group (we are the chosen that the Jeridu prophesies spoke of) I don't think she will mind regular use of non miracle prayers.

Wondering if a normal priest (one not favored and under the god's wing as ours has been) would get unlimited access to this freakishly strong ability?

[Grug]

You are correct, according to canon they can attempt it as often as they want.

As a gm though, I wouldn't make it as rare as miracles. But it differently would be something that as a gm if it got out hand (hey Arrin it's kind of dark in here, ask Thoth for globe of daylight, Arrin I'm thirsty and hungry ask Thoth for create bread and milk.) I'm going to have Thoth become very disappointed in you.
Now if Arrin is only asking for help like so,"Oh great Thoth, the demon lord of cupcakes & frosting is about to destroy us. I ask you grant the spell finger of Lictalon." Then the player would get more leeway.

Sidenote: It would only be 49% at level five, you never add the + per level for level one... For anything in PFRPG. Not sure why, it's just what the book says.

[Killer Cyborg]

It's a pretty sweet level, you could even (since it doesn't include any limitation preventing it) cast a spell at a HIGHER level than the god in question, if it were a god with rather low-level spellcasting abilities.

Priests aren't even limited to learning spells that the god knows nowadays. Apparently even if the god doesn't know a spell, he can impart it to a priest, which is why Viracocha's priests can do all that elemental stuff (not even Illapa's priests can do air elemental spells, LOL). In classic PRPG the priests were limited to casting spells the god knew, had to pick your patron more carefully then I s'pose.

This really adds cool reasons why gods (especially less-magerific ones) would desire priests.

So the priestess in our group (who is 4th level) worships Isis (who knows all wizard spells, even spells of legend).
She (the priestess) is the secondary character of our Player who plays the Longbowman as his primary PC. We told him he either attacks or heals just to simplify matters for him since its only his time playing PFRPG. Anyhow I don't want to short change him by not fully utilizing her (the priestess') abilities. Being that the goddess has taken an active interest in our group (we are the chosen that the Jeridu prophesies spoke of) I don't think she will mind regular use of non miracle prayers.

Wondering if a normal priest (one not favored and under the god's wing as ours has been) would get unlimited access to this freakishly strong ability?

Offhand, I'd say that it's up to the god's whim at the time, and that the gods don't like being called upon unnecessarily.
If you don't NEED the spell, they might ignore that request, or even start ignoring you in general.

[Thinyser]

You are correct, according to canon they can attempt it as often as they want.

As a gm though, I wouldn't make it as rare as miracles. But it differently would be something that as a gm if it got out hand (hey Arrin it's kind of dark in here, ask Thoth for globe of daylight, Arrin I'm thirsty and hungry ask Thoth for create bread and milk.) I'm going to have Thoth become very disappointed inyou.
Know if Arrin is only asking for help like so,"Oh great Thoth, the demon lord of cupcakes & frosting is about to destroy us. I ask you grant the spell finger of Lictalon." Then the player would get more leeway.

Sidenote: It would only be 49% at level five, you never add the + per level for level one... For anything in PFRPG. Not sure why, it's just what the book says.

Good catch on the %. I tend to agree with your assessment.

[glitterboy2098]

i think grug has a point.. it's a prayer, so your asking for divine intervention. if it happens too often, or for poor reasons, the deity is liable to get upset with you and either stop helping you like that, or make your life difficult in other ways.

[Thinyser]

i think grug has a point.. it's a prayer, so your asking for divine intervention. if it happens too often, or for poor reasons, the deity is liable to get upset with you and either stop helping you like that, or make your life difficult in other ways.

I totally agree that would be a "realistic" way to control its (ab)use by characters, and probably a more correct way to have written the rules regarding these more potent prayers, and probably how I would house rule it I suppose. However by the rules as written its clear the prayers should work any time the character prays and makes their % check for success. The % indicates the god's chance of hearing and paying heed to the priest enough to respond by granting the request.

I suppose if the god gets angry for being disturbed for trifling matters then he can either lower the priests level as a punishment (example of Maryanne's character) or lower their % of success (effectively the god stops listening to the priest as much) but I think that any of the goodly gods would give a warning before punishment. Something along the lines of "Stop praying for Bread and Milk every morning and get your own breakfast or you shall no longer be graced by my responses!"

[Killer Cyborg]

i think grug has a point.. it's a prayer, so your asking for divine intervention. if it happens too often, or for poor reasons, the deity is liable to get upset with you and either stop helping you like that, or make your life difficult in other ways.

I totally agree that would be a "realistic" way to control its (ab)use by characters, and probably a more correct way to have written the rules regarding these more potent prayers, and probably how I would house rule it I suppose. However by the rules as written its clear the prayers should work any time the character prays and makes their % check for success. The % indicates the god's chance of hearing and paying heed to the priest enough to respond by granting the request.

Not exactly.
Look at the percentile as a skill check. Or better yet, a Mental Affinity check.
The GM gets a lot of say in when, where, and how you can use your skills, attribute checks, etc.
You can't just say, "I use my Mental Affinity to take over the world." The GM decides when it is or is not appropriate for you to roll, and the GM decides what is within the scope of your abilities.
If you want to use a Spell of Legend to avoid flipping on a light switch, the GM can (and should) decide that no, you don't even get to roll the dice for that.

[eliakon]

Just a note here.....But it would seem to me to be the height of presumption to have a priest telling their god. "I made my roll, so you have to do what I want."
If the spell advances the gods agenda it will work...if its abusive or demeaning at best it will not work.....

[Thinyser]

i think grug has a point.. it's a prayer, so your asking for divine intervention. if it happens too often, or for poor reasons, the deity is liable to get upset with you and either stop helping you like that, or make your life difficult in other ways.

I totally agree that would be a "realistic" way to control its (ab)use by characters, and probably a more correct way to have written the rules regarding these more potent prayers, and probably how I would house rule it I suppose. However by the rules as written its clear the prayers should work any time the character prays and makes their % check for success. The % indicates the god's chance of hearing and paying heed to the priest enough to respond by granting the request.

Not exactly.
Look at the percentile as a skill check. Or better yet, a Mental Affinity check.
The GM gets a lot of say in when, where, and how you can use your skills, attribute checks, etc.
You can't just say, "I use my Mental Affinity to take over the world." The GM decides when it is or is not appropriate for you to roll, and the GM decides what is within the scope of your abilities.
If you want to use a Spell of Legend to avoid flipping on a light switch, the GM can (and should) decide that no, you don't even get to roll the dice for that.

Well technically I said the % indicates the god's chance of hearing an paying heed to the priest enough to respond, so I think the GM, playing the part of the god, should roll in secret. This way they can say "oh your god didn't grant your request, and you get the feeling that you best not try that s#!+ again."

[Giant2005]

i think grug has a point.. it's a prayer, so your asking for divine intervention. if it happens too often, or for poor reasons, the deity is liable to get upset with you and either stop helping you like that, or make your life difficult in other ways.

I totally agree that would be a "realistic" way to control its (ab)use by characters, and probably a more correct way to have written the rules regarding these more potent prayers, and probably how I would house rule it I suppose. However by the rules as written its clear the prayers should work any time the character prays and makes their % check for success. The % indicates the god's chance of hearing and paying heed to the priest enough to respond by granting the request.

I suppose if the god gets angry for being disturbed for trifling matters then he can either lower the priests level as a punishment (example of Maryanne's character) or lower their % of success (effectively the god stops listening to the priest as much) but I think that any of the goodly gods would give a warning before punishment. Something along the lines of "Stop praying for Bread and Milk every morning and get your own breakfast or you shall no longer be graced by my responses!"

That isn't actually how it works. What you are describing are miracles, not prayers.
Prayers are all handled automatically and the God doesn't even know when or why they are happening unless he is personally auditing a particular Priest for whatever reason. Under normal circumstances, it is left entirely in the hands of the Priest.
The above is detailed on page 88 of Dragons and Gods.

[Thinyser]

i think grug has a point.. it's a prayer, so your asking for divine intervention. if it happens too often, or for poor reasons, the deity is liable to get upset with you and either stop helping you like that, or make your life difficult in other ways.

I totally agree that would be a "realistic" way to control its (ab)use by characters, and probably a more correct way to have written the rules regarding these more potent prayers, and probably how I would house rule it I suppose. However by the rules as written its clear the prayers should work any time the character prays and makes their % check for success. The % indicates the god's chance of hearing and paying heed to the priest enough to respond by granting the request.

I suppose if the god gets angry for being disturbed for trifling matters then he can either lower the priests level as a punishment (example of Maryanne's character) or lower their % of success (effectively the god stops listening to the priest as much) but I think that any of the goodly gods would give a warning before punishment. Something along the lines of "Stop praying for Bread and Milk every morning and get your own breakfast or you shall no longer be graced by my responses!"

That isn't actually how it works. What you are describing are miracles, not prayers.
Prayers are all handled automatically and the God doesn't even know when or why they are happening unless he is personally auditing a particular Priest for whatever reason. Under normal circumstances, it is left entirely in the hands of the Priest.
The above is detailed on page 88 of Dragons and Gods.

Ok so this is a 2nd cannon reference to support that essentially the priest can use any magic his god knows as often as he likes (can keep making % checks til it works) without respect for the god's time or interests. See I knew this was ripe for abuse!

[say652]

Unless you worship Thor or any other god that enjoys strong independent followers. And Odin is known throughout history for his kindness and care of mortals. Lol. Not to mention Zues unless you're a hot chick wouldn't count on much help there.

[Grug]

I still stand by my original post, especially after reading the second paragraph under the heading of 'Exchanging ppe for priest powers, on pg.88 of the Dragon & gods book.

[Thinyser]

I still stand by my original post, especially after reading the second paragraph under the heading of 'Exchanging ppe for priest powers, on pg.88 of the Dragon & gods book.

The way its worded, and the context, seems to read between the lines as "but they generally don't".

So while of course they could audit their priests, they generally don't. Blessings and Prayers go on behind the scenes and don't garner the god's time and attention unless they decide to pay attention.

I however agree that in the end its up to the GM as to what is too much and thus draws the negative attention of your god. Now if you are on a mission for your god, with their direct blessing, one can safely assume that they will let the prayers be granted at the normal % w/o audits.

[say652]

I mean all you have to do Pray for carpet of adhesion and you can take down CosmoCalledaKnightbutdonotactlikeone type things.

[Tor]

Not to mention Zues unless you're a hot chick wouldn't count on much help there.

Are you sure?

[say652]

Not to mention Zues unless you're a hot chick wouldn't count on much help there.

Are you sure?

Ok then according to his description in the Pantheons Book. Also says unless Oltmpia is attacked he could careless also.

[Tor]

Zeus explicitly likes the ladies, but he doesn't explicitly dislike guys