To whom it may concern at Palladium

[Asterios]

This message goes out to anyone at Palladium, we the Backers of the Robotech Tactical RPG game would like to know when you are going to give us an update, it has been 2 weeks since your last update and you have been silent and the backers are becoming restless and demanding answers, even your staunch supporters have gone silent, and even more backers have popped up demanding answers and not happy with the lack of communication.

Not sure who you talked to about running a kickstarter, but this is not it, you have an obligation to us the backers to give us regular updates and to keep us clued into the project as it progresses.

in fact these are your very words themselves:

It is our commitment to you, the Kickstarter backers, that we will maintain consistent communication throughout the process. This means regular updates, product photos, and plenty of behind the scenes insight as we complete the creation of Robotech® RPG Tactics™.

Do you think you can try living up to them ?

[bielmic]

This message goes out to anyone at Palladium, we the Backers of the Robotech Tactical RPG game would like to know when you are going to give us an update, it has been 2 weeks since your last update and you have been silent and the backers are becoming restless and demanding answers, even your staunch supporters have gone silent, and even more backers have popped up demanding answers and not happy with the lack of communication.

Not sure who you talked to about running a kickstarter, but this is not it, you have an obligation to us the backers to give us regular updates and to keep us clued into the project as it progresses.

in fact these are your very words themselves:

It is our commitment to you, the Kickstarter backers, that we will maintain consistent communication throughout the process. This means regular updates, product photos, and plenty of behind the scenes insight as we complete the creation of Robotech® RPG Tactics™.

Do you think you can try living up to them ?

Don't expect this thread to stay open. You'll likely get a trolling warning along with a suggestion to fax, telegraph, or snail mail palladium with concerns as they don't read the forums much. Also, they don't respond to negative commentary in any case but instead are much more likely to respond to purely positive feedback according to the owner's comments before the Robotech KS. The recent update marginalizing folks who aren't happy to a vocal minority is consistent as well with the super secret poll of 2012 that found only 1% of fans are unhappy with the current state of the RPG (mainly by again relegating customers both current and past who are unhappy to non-fan status). In the end, nothing will come of your thread other than trouble for you.

[Mike1975]

What he said, this is not the first time the battlecry has been raised, erased, raised, and erased again. Swept under the rug. If it was not for the link in the KS comments I would not have even bothered to look in. This is a place for rainbows not debate.

[Kryptt]

I didn't see his post as trolling. He's only voicing his concern over RRT. If anything someone will pipe in to get it locked, which is a shame because I would like to know what's going on myself.

To palladium books
Will the wave two models come in as many parts as many in wave one? Will you continue to manufacture models with seams in the front?

[bielmic]

To palladium books
Will the wave two models come in as many parts as many in wave one? Will you continue to manufacture models with seams in the front?

Unless they change the wave 1 molds, there will always been models manufactured with seams in the front. I assume thought that you mean will they continue to design model sprues that result in seams along the front though which is still up in the air.

[The Galactus Kid]

Well, The last few updates have happened on the same day as the regular updates, so I'm guessing we'll probably see an update tonight or next thursday. As for the original post and the part he quoted, I don't see how they are not providing regular updates. It's been two weeks. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!

[Jorel]

I think it would be great if Palladium would actually answer these questions. Only reason I tend to post most things about Robotech over in the All Things Palladium Forum is because I'd guess that is almost the only place the staff will notice anything.

[Mike1975]

Did you ever send in the 2 or 3 additional questions that were brought up in the KS comments?

[Jorel]

Well, The last few updates have happened on the same day as the regular updates, so I'm guessing we'll probably see an update tonight or next thursday. As for the original post and the part he quoted, I don't see how they are not providing regular updates. It's been two weeks. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!

You're not helping. It has been much longer than that and they do not acknowledge any of the backers questions or comments on the KS page so now people are forced to bring it here to ask. The only way people got Wayne to answer a few questions was to have Mike submit them because no one over there can figure out why there isn't an email option to contact Palladium. You really don't want to get on the wrong side of this when there are a lot of valid complaints that PB is choosing not to address.

[The Galactus Kid]

I think it would be great if Palladium would actually answer these questions. Only reason I tend to post most things about Robotech over in the All Things Palladium Forum is because I'd guess that is almost the only place the staff will notice anything.

Maybe Wayne will address the new questions in the next update.

[Jorel]

Did you ever send in the 2 or 3 additional questions that were brought up in the KS comments?

If that was addressed to me, I am not sending any questions for the lot over there. They need to figure out how to communicate for themselves like Rick is doing with this thread. Next step is Rick sending his list of demands to Palladium by fax I guess.

[Jorel]

I think it would be great if Palladium would actually answer these questions. Only reason I tend to post most things about Robotech over in the All Things Palladium Forum is because I'd guess that is almost the only place the staff will notice anything.

Maybe Wayne will address the new questions in the next update.

He still needs to finish answering the original 10 submitted a month ago.

[Asterios]

I think it would be great if Palladium would actually answer these questions. Only reason I tend to post most things about Robotech over in the All Things Palladium Forum is because I'd guess that is almost the only place the staff will notice anything.

Maybe Wayne will address the new questions in the next update.

which update will that be? already they have posted 2 oblique updates to their own site, and have totally ignored the Kickstarter backer site.

do you like to troll much Galactus?

[Mike1975]

Did you ever send in the 2 or 3 additional questions that were brought up in the KS comments?

If that was addressed to me, I am not sending any questions for the lot over there. They need to figure out how to communicate for themselves like Rick is doing with this thread. Next step is Rick sending his list of demands to Palladium by fax I guess.

Fair enough, I was curious because they kinda went to the wayside

[The Galactus Kid]

I think it would be great if Palladium would actually answer these questions. Only reason I tend to post most things about Robotech over in the All Things Palladium Forum is because I'd guess that is almost the only place the staff will notice anything.

Maybe Wayne will address the new questions in the next update.

which update will that be? already they have posted 2 oblique updates to their own site, and have totally ignored the Kickstarter backer site.

do you like to troll much Galactus?

I see you are new here. I'm not trying to troll, but give some information regarding observations.
1) Kevin is primarily responsible for the updates on this site.
2) Wayne Smith or the Ninja Division guys are primarily responsible for the Kickstarter updates.
3) My last point was genuine since Wayne DID answer many questions in one of the most recent updates, so stating that he might again isn't trolling.

[bielmic]

Did you ever send in the 2 or 3 additional questions that were brought up in the KS comments?

If that was addressed to me, I am not sending any questions for the lot over there. They need to figure out how to communicate for themselves like Rick is doing with this thread. Next step is Rick sending his list of demands to Palladium by fax I guess.

That is probably a good idea. The more people that individually come to this forum and post their complaints in separate new threads and raise concerns on their facebook page with every post the better. There is a slim chance that might disabuse Palladium of the notion that their inner circle of employees, potential employees, and self selected "fans" are indicative of general sentiment towards the company and that the complainers are a vocal minority much like the 1% of people unhappy with the RPG.

[Jorel]

They are in a bubble of their own making and reality doesn't often penetrate such a bubble. Look at Fox News for examples of such a bubble.

[Mike1975]

CNN, MSNBC, that Maddow chick, now those are bubbles!

[bielmic]

I see you are new here. I'm not trying to troll, but give some information regarding observations.
1) Kevin is primarily responsible for the updates on this site.
2) Wayne Smith or the Ninja Division guys are primarily responsible for the Kickstarter updates.
3) My last point was genuine since Wayne DID answer many questions in one of the most recent updates, so stating that he might again isn't trolling.

Have you followed the kickstarter since it ended? If so, could you post links to the Ninja Division updates to the Kickstarter site from the last 6 months? Maybe I missed a few but everyone I've seen was by Palladium since around last summer but feel free to post the links to the wealth of information direct from Ninja Division that I'm apparently not privy to. With how the information is being sprinkled about murmurs, press releases, facebook, the occasional comment, and finally the appropriate kickstarter update page, it is possible that I've missed it despite doing my best to keep track of this massively delayed project. To my knowledge, Ninja Division only reposts days to weeks later links to Palladium's own updates and pretty much nothing else except for a uncharacteristic single facebook update months ago showing some colored pics of a model's parts.

[Jorel]

CNN, MSNBC, that Maddow chick, now those are bubbles!

Look at Fox News for examples of such a bubble.
I try not pay attention to anyone pushing news on a 24 hr basis.

[Jorel]

I see you are new here. I'm not trying to troll, but give some information regarding observations.
1) Kevin is primarily responsible for the updates on this site.
2) Wayne Smith or the Ninja Division guys are primarily responsible for the Kickstarter updates.
3) My last point was genuine since Wayne DID answer many questions in one of the most recent updates, so stating that he might again isn't trolling.

Have you followed the kickstarter since it ended? If so, could you post links to the Ninja Division updates to the Kickstarter site from the last 6 months? Maybe I missed a few but everyone I've seen was by Palladium since around last summer but feel free to post the links to the wealth of information direct from Ninja Division that I'm apparently not privy to. With how the information is being sprinkled about murmurs, press releases, facebook, the occasional comment, and finally the appropriate kickstarter update page, it is possible that I've missed it despite doing my best to keep track of this massively delayed project. To my knowledge, Ninja Division only reposts days to weeks later links to Palladium's own updates and pretty much nothing else except for a uncharacteristic single facebook update months ago showing some colored pics of a model's parts.

So...if he amends #2 to be just Wayne, and no Ninjas is that valid?

[Asterios]

I think it would be great if Palladium would actually answer these questions. Only reason I tend to post most things about Robotech over in the All Things Palladium Forum is because I'd guess that is almost the only place the staff will notice anything.

Maybe Wayne will address the new questions in the next update.

which update will that be? already they have posted 2 oblique updates to their own site, and have totally ignored the Kickstarter backer site.

do you like to troll much Galactus?

I see you are new here. I'm not trying to troll, but give some information regarding observations.
1) Kevin is primarily responsible for the updates on this site.
2) Wayne Smith or the Ninja Division guys are primarily responsible for the Kickstarter updates.
3) My last point was genuine since Wayne DID answer many questions in one of the most recent updates, so stating that he might again isn't trolling.

1: Kevin is posting blurbs on his own site, would be nice if he took the time to respond to the backers

2: Wayne has been absent and ND said they are not responsible for responses and refer us back to Palladium to get a response

3: Wayne did not answer many questions, he gave a lot of don't knows and will get back to you responses and many of the answers he gave are not panning out to be honest answers.

If i'm forced to draft a letter to Palladium they will not like it, since we as backers/investors do have rights that Palladium has ignored, they are treating us backers/investors as if we were customers or fans of palladium, we are not, first off were fans of Robotech, and were investors not some fans of Palladium.

[Kendachi]

If there's going to be another list of questions, please put mine in for consideration:

"Why will you not show us the rules?"

[Forar]

Well, The last few updates have happened on the same day as the regular updates, so I'm guessing we'll probably see an update tonight or next thursday. As for the original post and the part he quoted, I don't see how they are not providing regular updates. It's been two weeks. DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!

Two weeks since an update was given that answered some of a list of questions, and left others hanging, during what is presumably a time where massive amounts of info and progress are being made, what with having 3 months to produce and transport hundreds of thousands of sprues to make the current "June/July" target, as per their comments on the KS page (or May/June, as per the front page, someone might want to change that).

They were getting really good about weekly updates for a while there. They generally weren't much info (usually just a 3D printed prototype for a long while, but something all the same), and yet while the information should be coming in greater amounts and quality (assuming they are actually moving along the production process), the information to backers is coming less frequently (though admittedly, Wayne's massive missive was more than we've gotten in a long time, so kudos for that).

Also, they've been sending out KS updates generally between Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays for quite some time now, though when the last update was literally two weeks ago, I'll admit to hoping they don't push it out to 16+ days.

Did you ever send in the 2 or 3 additional questions that were brought up in the KS comments?

I don't know about which exact 2 or 3 questions you're referring to, but I pulled together a list of 7 or 8 with feedback in the comments and fired them over. According to said help desk ticket, it has been closed/resolved, in that Alex passed them onto Wayne.

"Hi,

I have passed your questions on to Wayne who is buried in work at the moment. Thanks for writing."

Received April 14th.


Edit: as for Kevin's updates; while Wayne (or is it Jeff? Or both?) may be tasked with the campaign contact, when he posts things like how much he loves the Spartan and directs people to the KS updates (while that update's comments were actively a roiling cluster-shenanigans), and has been stating for a year now how far along everything is, so close to production, etc, etc, it comes across as significantly disconnected from the realities of the project.

But hey, the last newsletter commented that there was going to be 'big news' this week for a ton of projects, including RRT, so I guess between that and the pending update, we should have plenty to talk about and reassure some rather anxious backers with...

[Jorel]

If there's going to be another list of questions, please put mine in for consideration:

"Why will you not show us the rules?"

From what Mike has said they cannot because of HG and the fact the Images in the rules are licensed images.

[Kendachi]

Jorel, sorry to be blunt, but I'm not asking you.


Mind you, I'm not looking to hear from anyone but Palladium. Second hand news playing grapevine to get to me is not what I want.

98% Horse's Mouth.

[Jorel]

I don't see anyone official answering this thread any time soon so good luck with that.

[Forar]

According to what I've read, they don't read the forums.

They do read some KS comments, in that they've responded to people directly several times (myself included), but it's not common, I'll grant that.

[Jorel]

I saw AlexM pop up as reading it today. I know that Kevin and Wayne have both posted on here on the past, but I usually only see AlexM on here and he is rare to post. Usually just perusing.

[Forar]

Well then, I guess the next time someone tells me they don't read the forums or the comments, I'll know better that they do, at least on occasion.

Thanks buddy!

[Jorel]

The others aren't on often if ever and not often enough to read all the comments.

[The Galactus Kid]

1: Kevin is posting blurbs on his own site, would be nice if he took the time to respond to the backers

2: Wayne has been absent and ND said they are not responsible for responses and refer us back to Palladium to get a response

3: Wayne did not answer many questions, he gave a lot of don't knows and will get back to you responses and many of the answers he gave are not panning out to be honest answers.

If i'm forced to draft a letter to Palladium they will not like it, since we as backers/investors do have rights that Palladium has ignored, they are treating us backers/investors as if we were customers or fans of palladium, we are not, first off were fans of Robotech, and were investors not some fans of Palladium.

1) Aside from the rare post, he won't. Those updates will be coming from Wayne probably.
2) So, when the next update comes it will probably be Wayne making the post. Wayne does not get that information in a vacuum and will relay informnation he gets from the Ninja Division guys.
3) Wayne answered a bunch of questions, though not all. He said that he would try to answer more and get additional information. I don't see how going back to get additional information is a bad thing.

If you are forced to draft a letter to palladium, I'm sure they'll take it with a grain of salt. Depending on how it is worded, it might be received as constructive criticism, or at worst angry ranting. If you are fans of Robotech and not fans of Palladium, then I'm sorry that this process is disturbing to you. I'm sure that waiting years between comic books, video or movie releases only makes these delays even harder to deal with. I understand it's frustrating. As for being an investor, I understand that relationship too. However, is Palladium violating any rules of the kickstarter process? As far as I understand it, they are not. They are just not going as quickly as everyone would like. They have been upfront with delays and provided regular input regarding their processes. I feel as though they have done their due diligence and will continue to do so.

[Asterios]

1: Kevin is posting blurbs on his own site, would be nice if he took the time to respond to the backers

2: Wayne has been absent and ND said they are not responsible for responses and refer us back to Palladium to get a response

3: Wayne did not answer many questions, he gave a lot of don't knows and will get back to you responses and many of the answers he gave are not panning out to be honest answers.

If i'm forced to draft a letter to Palladium they will not like it, since we as backers/investors do have rights that Palladium has ignored, they are treating us backers/investors as if we were customers or fans of palladium, we are not, first off were fans of Robotech, and were investors not some fans of Palladium.

1) Aside from the rare post, he won't. Those updates will be coming from Wayne probably.
2) So, when the next update comes it will probably be Wayne making the post. Wayne does not get that information in a vacuum and will relay informnation he gets from the Ninja Division guys.
3) Wayne answered a bunch of questions, though not all. He said that he would try to answer more and get additional information. I don't see how going back to get additional information is a bad thing.

If you are forced to draft a letter to palladium, I'm sure they'll take it with a grain of salt. Depending on how it is worded, it might be received as constructive criticism, or at worst angry ranting. If you are fans of Robotech and not fans of Palladium, then I'm sorry that this process is disturbing to you. I'm sure that waiting years between comic books, video or movie releases only makes these delays even harder to deal with. I understand it's frustrating. As for being an investor, I understand that relationship too. However, is Palladium violating any rules of the kickstarter process? As far as I understand it, they are not. They are just not going as quickly as everyone would like. They have been upfront with delays and provided regular input regarding their processes. I feel as though they have done their due diligence and will continue to do so.

and therein lies the problem, your going by Kickstarter rules, you fail to take into effect the Federal laws and governing laws regarding investments and investors, furthermore, my letter I draft to Palladium will not be one they take with a "grain of salt" since it will have the full force of the law behind it, and addressed to them thru the legal system.

[Jorel]

I have to wonder if people think they properly researched the miniature endeavor like they claimed when the KS began? If not how can anyone stand by and say they are cool with how it is playing out. We may see it in October 2013 is a far cry from where we are today and that speaks volumes to anyone who has been paying attention. If they were lying to themselves about what was necessary to achieve the millions of pieces needed to satisfy the orders of the 5,342 backers at that point when the KS ended, who is to say they aren't still lying to themselves about what it takes to get this game out by GenCon let alone October 2014 or even 2015. If they don't know then maybe that is why they keep quiet.

[The Galactus Kid]

and therein lies the problem, your going by Kickstarter rules, you fail to take into effect the Federal laws and governing laws regarding investments and investors, furthermore, my letter I draft to Palladium will not be one they take with a "grain of salt" since it will have the full force of the law behind it, and addressed to them thru the legal system.

This would likely fall under fundraising instead of investng and investors.
Also, this:
•The Estimated Delivery Date listed on each reward is not a promise to fulfill by that date, but is merely an estimate of when the Project Creator hopes to fulfill by. (Which it was)
•Project Creators agree to make a good faith attempt to fulfill each reward by its Estimated Delivery Date. (Which Palladium can make every claim to doing)
I'm not a lawyer, so my opinion doesn't really matter here, but if there is a legal case here, Good luck with all that.

[Asterios]

and therein lies the problem, your going by Kickstarter rules, you fail to take into effect the Federal laws and governing laws regarding investments and investors, furthermore, my letter I draft to Palladium will not be one they take with a "grain of salt" since it will have the full force of the law behind it, and addressed to them thru the legal system.

This would likely fall under fundraising instead of investng and investors.
Also, this:
•The Estimated Delivery Date listed on each reward is not a promise to fulfill by that date, but is merely an estimate of when the Project Creator hopes to fulfill by. (Which it was)
•Project Creators agree to make a good faith attempt to fulfill each reward by its Estimated Delivery Date. (Which Palladium can make every claim to doing)
I'm not a lawyer, so my opinion doesn't really matter here, but if there is a legal case here, Good luck with all that.

And once again your going by the kickstarter rules, when you back a project whether thru kickstarter or other avenues you are considered an investor and investing in a project;


Also this project is as far away from fundraising as one can get.


If I have to draft a motion it will be for Palladium to release what the money was spent on and if spent on anything other then things dealing with the project they are at default and could be libel for fraud, furthermore as investors we have the right to reliable and accurate information in a timely manner and upon request, furthermore we have the right to access of information and access to the company staff involved with said project.

you should seriously go look up the laws regarding investors and investing and then you will realize that Palladium is not in a very good position.

[Forar]

What we have is evidence of actual progress towards production. The test sprues of the Support Pods. I've heard rumour that the others molds and test sprues (of the 11 remaining figures, presumably?) have also been run, though obviously that should be taken with a grain of salt until we actually hear it officially. However, 14 days after hearing about the first, I'd certainly hope there was plenty to showcase, because those days counting down to "July/June" are dwindling.

It seems unlikely that wave one will be pushed back another year or eight or whatever because they are clearly already paying for things, for molds, for test runs, and presumably will take a penalty if they fail to go ahead with their allotted factory slot (which puts everything askew again).

Are these guarantees things won't fall apart? Of course not. But I think it can be seen as them finally having a vested interest in achieving the goals they have set. They *need* to make Gencon, to have product on hand to rake in full MSRP (presumably, if any other hot new releases at GC are any indicator) from thronging masses. There is no reason to waste time and money making molds that aren't intended to be used, or punching out sprues of things that'll just sit around wasting warehouse space.

There remain many unknowns. Shipping issues can happen, the boat might sit for weeks waiting to fill up or for a priority item, or customs might get a bee in their bonnet and hold up the containers for extra weeks after finding a little baby powder on the deck, whatever. But intentionally holding back seems unlikely at this point.

[Forar]

Actually, Asterios, I hate to say it, but no, we're not actually investors. In a general sense, yes, but in the same fashion that someone on the stock exchange or a venture capitalist might be? Not quite. I'm sure it'd be an interesting brief to file, and it wouldn't shock me if the cost of just paying you back your $100 or $1000 or whatever wasn't seen as simpler than testing the waters of the local courts, but part of the problem with Kickstarter is that it is like so many things.

It's *like* pre-ordering, it's *like* being an investor, it's *like* a PBS pledge fund, but it's not really actually/literally any of those things, and thus the same legislation designed to protect consumers/customers in those regards doesn't quite apply, or might only in a limited degree.

Don't get me wrong, people have sued and been bankrupted over KS failures. But any victory would probably be based on "oh god, this guy got an actual lawyer to draft a letter, send him his cash to get him off our cases" rather than some fear of the courts upholding some form of investor protection laws.

Or that's how I understand it at least. I'm pretty sure KS is quite clear about backers not being investors, but I've gotta jet, so I lack the time to go looking for it.

[Mike1975]

From DakkaDAkka site

Was at the sakuracon convention in seattle last weekend when to my surprise who should I see in the dealer's hall but ninja division! went over to ask them some questions about robotech and this is what I heard.

the test molds are either complete or being cut for all models. the Valkyrie has been particularly tricky. the test molds that are finished have had a test run which are with palladium for checking (the artillery pod is just one, ND said PB have more than that currently)

now how much of this is blowing smoke who knows. but that's what I was told at the con. they didn't have any robotech on hand to look at, just super dungeon, relic knights, and tentacle bento.

maybe someday i'll get my box of goodies

[Asterios]

Actually, Asterios, I hate to say it, but no, we're not actually investors. In a general sense, yes, but in the same fashion that someone on the stock exchange or a venture capitalist might be? Not quite. I'm sure it'd be an interesting brief to file, and it wouldn't shock me if the cost of just paying you back your $100 or $1000 or whatever wasn't seen as simpler than testing the waters of the local courts, but part of the problem with Kickstarter is that it is like so many things.

It's *like* pre-ordering, it's *like* being an investor, it's *like* a PBS pledge fund, but it's not really actually/literally any of those things, and thus the same legislation designed to protect consumers/customers in those regards doesn't quite apply, or might only in a limited degree.

Don't get me wrong, people have sued and been bankrupted over KS failures. But any victory would probably be based on "oh god, this guy got an actual lawyer to draft a letter, send him his cash to get him off our cases" rather than some fear of the courts upholding some form of investor protection laws.

Or that's how I understand it at least. I'm pretty sure KS is quite clear about backers not being investors, but I've gotta jet, so I lack the time to go looking for it.

Actually Forar Kickstarter does not say anything about it not being an investment, and while yes there are laws regarding stock/bonds investment, there are other laws regarding project investments and such which this would fall under, furthermore the term backer is also referred to as investors since your investing/backing a project, the only thing Kickstarter says is once the project is funded it is out of their hands.

[The Galactus Kid]

you should seriously go look up the laws regarding investors and investing and then you will realize that Palladium is not in a very good position.

I really shouldn't I'm not a lawyer and I really don't care that much. Being someone who funded this kickstarter, I'm more than happy with the ammount of information that has been provided and I'm pleased with all the models we've seen so far. I'm not the one complaining about the product and I already wished you luck on any legal matters involving this.

[Forar]

Actually Forar Kickstarter does not say anything about it not being an investment, and while yes there are laws regarding stock/bonds investment, there are other laws regarding project investments and such which this would fall under, furthermore the term backer is also referred to as investors since your investing/backing a project, the only thing Kickstarter says is once the project is funded it is out of their hands.

Dude, whatever, you're splitting hairs. This isn't going to go before a court. Get a lawyer buddy to draft something up and get your couple hundred bucks back. You've probably spent more time talking about doing it than it's going to take to do.

They have denied people refunds repeatedly at this point, and it wouldn't shock me if they did so to you as well, but nor would it surprise me if going that extra bit of distance helped you recoup your losses.

*shrug* I really don't care. I'm an unhappy backer, but my crew of 3 all went in together, so for now at least, I'm in it for the long haul.

[Forar]

BTW, why, in the year of our Lord 2014, does Palladium happen to not have an email address?

It's right there in his forum signature!

Because DINOSAURS.

[Asterios]

Actually Forar Kickstarter does not say anything about it not being an investment, and while yes there are laws regarding stock/bonds investment, there are other laws regarding project investments and such which this would fall under, furthermore the term backer is also referred to as investors since your investing/backing a project, the only thing Kickstarter says is once the project is funded it is out of their hands.

Dude, whatever, you're splitting hairs. This isn't going to go before a court. Get a lawyer buddy to draft something up and get your couple hundred bucks back. You've probably spent more time talking about doing it than it's going to take to do.

They have denied people refunds repeatedly at this point, and it wouldn't shock me if they did so to you as well, but nor would it surprise me if going that extra bit of distance helped you recoup your losses.

*shrug* I really don't care. I'm an unhappy backer, but my crew of 3 all went in together, so for now at least, I'm in it for the long haul.

Actually Forar if I do this I'll be doing it myself, this is my area of expertise (contract law) and it will be ugly for Palladium.

[Forar]

Go for it, man. Lay down the law and be sure to share with us on the backer comments your success. I know a good dozen+ people who will be happy to hear it, and to know the steps necessary to properly receive recompense for this cluster-shenanigans.

[Jorel]

I do have to wonder how that refund facebook page is coming along. Has anyone on there had any results?

[The Galactus Kid]

Actually Forar if I do this I'll be doing it myself, this is my area of expertise (contract law) and it will be ugly for Palladium.

Again, good luck with that, but I doubt it will be ugly for Palladium.

[Forar]

I do have to wonder how that refund facebook page is coming along. Has anyone on there had any results?

On the page? Not sure. There are only a dozen members last I checked, and not all of them were seeking refunds. It's not particularly active at the moment. Maybe the Support sprues gave a few of them the little bit of hope necessary to carry them on a few more weeks. Or they're waiting to hear back from said banks/credit cards.

Not to mention that some have already claimed to have received them from their bank or credit card, meaning they never needed to join in the first place. That's come up a few times on another forum.

[jaymz]

The last KS update Wayne promised to try and do better. I hate to say it but it has to be said. Do or do not. There is no try. Wayne has effectively failed at improving communications after promising to improve communications.

[Jerell]

Being someone who funded this kickstarter, I'm more than happy with the ammount of information that has been provided and I'm pleased with all the models we've seen so far. I'm not the one complaining about the product and I already wished you luck on any legal matters involving this.

Very reasonable. My view of this matter is in line with The Galactus Kid.

ND needs some more time? S'okay with me. For the most part, my expectations are being met. Best wishes to all.