To whom it may concern at Palladium

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:30 pm

Forar wrote:As an aside, while I'm sure Jeff and Wayne have to slide things across Kevin's desk for final 98% approval, I thought Kevin was the one writing NG-1 and 2.... so how would RRT be heavily impacting his work? Sure, presumably some things needed attending to, but he's a writer, and presumably a miniatures game doesn't exactly need a ton of writing. Nor is the rules book particularly huge.

Just saying; while it might be the case that the two projects conflicted, unless Wayne or Jeff were pivotal in NG-1/2 as well, is it really a matter of the two conflicting?

Not saying there weren't other issues at hand either, and admit I didn't follow either campaign, so I say this out of legit curiosity, having mostly just read a few threads here and there, and perused the comments made in the weekly newsletters on the matter.

Because Kevin runs the business and wears all the hats there. Not just Writer. Editor. Business Contact. Consultant. Gotta assume there is some level of Accounting going on. He is the one that signs off on all things that go out the door with the Palladium logo. Even the fan material in the Rifter gets at least a once over by him.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:32 pm

Wayne and Jeff may be handling the RRT side of things, but I would almost guarantee they are running every big decision or sudden arrival of information across his desk. Kevin does not spend all that time writing.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:46 pm

I dunno. He seems to knock like 100 pages out a week, going by the murmurs.

But I suppose "whelp, I guess both ends just suffer" is also a viable option.

I consider myself better informed.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:50 pm

better informed about what?

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 3:57 pm

How instrumental Kevin is to both aspects while wearing, like, seven hats.

That's Team Fortress 2 levels of hattery.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:07 pm

As far as I know up until now Wayne handled the Rifter before RRT and Kevin still had his input in that. They hired Jeff to handle Robotech and they keep mentioning some kind of art associated with that. Still not sure how Jeff takes the load off Kevin but I guess he handles calls and transfer of information like emails. Wayne and Alex handle editing after Kevin writes/rewrites. Not sure what they all do while waiting for Kevin to finish the most recent manuscript he is working on (still NG-2) but I'd guess it is the busy work needed to get RRT to us and the Rifter. I don't think Wayne, Alex, or Jeff handle the running of the business type stuff and he also has an agent that is shopping the IP out there so he regularly mentions talking to him as well as HG.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:08 pm

I do think Wayne is doing more of the Communication both with HG and with the Kickstarter Community than he was a year ago.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:19 pm

He is. His name is all over a bunch of updates lately.

But where has Jeff gone? I don't recall the last time I saw him do an update.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:31 pm

I don't think he is handling that aspect.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:36 pm

*shrug* He was for a while, and then he wasn't.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:48 pm

how long? like more than 3 posts? there was one that said Kevin and Jeff I recall...

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:55 pm

Huh. They had 102 where they introduced Jeff, but then went right into Wayne.

I stand corrected.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 4:56 pm

Just checkin. Thanks for lookin.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:59 pm

Good Enough Dude.

Kryptt · Unread post by **Kryptt** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:06 pm

Ninjabunny wrote:If you know so much about data collect and what not then do some ? Otherwise folks like me who watched our books get pushed back for miniatures are going to tell you to shut up and get in line, because you aren't even near as late on your product as I am on my books. I have given a list of books that are late and some are over ten years. You guys are just over six months and looking like you well get them before years end. Putting you at just about or under a year late from announced shipping dates. While my books are taking longer and longer to get out for your guys miniatures.

Your right we backers are in line after you. Seems like your getting NG-2 soonish and hopefully MF soonish. Although I think well get wave one before MF comes out. Or it could be the other way. Some backers are already preparing themselves for the eventual update that reads wave two for sometime in 2015.

Asterios · Unread post by **Asterios** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:15 pm

Ninjabunny wrote:If you know so much about data collect and what not then do some ? Otherwise folks like me who watched our books get pushed back for miniatures are going to tell you to shut up and get in line, because you aren't even near as late on your product as I am on my books. I have given a list of books that are late and some are over ten years. You guys are just over six months and looking like you well get them before years end. Putting you at just about or under a year late from announced shipping dates. While my books are taking longer and longer to get out for your guys miniatures.

If you already paid for these items, then I'm surprised you and the other backers for the books have done nothing as of yet? makes me wonder if this is why Palladium thinks it can screw over backers because they allow them too.

Kryptt · Unread post by **Kryptt** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:32 pm

I was thinking the same.

Forar · Unread post by **Forar** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:48 pm

And thus, the first Palladium crowdfunding war began...

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:57 pm

They haven't screwed over anyone at this point. They are delayed. Severely in most cases. If you had read up on your Palladium history before investing, you'd know they are basically doing as they always have. Sure we can want better of them, but they do eventually deliver a product. They don't screw people over.

Tiree · Unread post by **Tiree** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:13 pm

Some of the products are... Underwhelming. That is my fear with Kickstarter. You are almost guaranteed to get something you backed. But it may not be the quality of what was hoped for.

Now people who have backed PB have done so for a variety of different reasons. But those who want their money back, but don't ask for it are in a bind. I'm a digital supporter. If I want a legit copy of a PDF, this is the only way I'm getting it. I have to suck it up, as I can't buy it later.

I just hope PB doesn't do the same garbage they did last time and make the PDF supporters wait 2 weeks after the hardcovers shipped, then delay and delay and delay again and again

Asterios · Unread post by **Asterios** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:18 pm

Jorel wrote:They haven't screwed over anyone at this point. They are delayed. Severely in most cases. If you had read up on your Palladium history before investing, you'd know they are basically doing as they always have. Sure we can want better of them, but they do eventually deliver a product. They don't screw people over.

I know of nowhere else other then with Palladium are delays like this considered acceptable, the mere fact you allow Palladium to forgo sending product you paid for years ago, belies understanding, seriously this is the work of sheep if you ask me, and then you dare to belittle us because our product is late and we will not go quietly into that good night as you have ? sorry if we refuse to be sheep like you, since that is all you are since you have allowed PB to lead you around like a shepherd.

Asterios · Unread post by **Asterios** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:31 pm

Speaking of which the latest update has been posted https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rr ... 0?ref=dash and I find it very underwhelming.

bielmic · Unread post by **bielmic** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:50 pm

Eh, I'll give credit where credit is due. They may not be showing the high profile stuff but they are showing new stuff like the finalized clear plastic template, dice, and a part of the painting guide that took them two months to do as well as May as a production start date which means that June and likely July are out of the running as delivery dates for the peasants (but might maybe still be possible for nobles who pay full retail at Gencon with some limited rush shipping for the con).

Jerell · Unread post by **Jerell** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:57 pm

Wayne wrote:I’m not going to rush through putting this one together like I did with the prototypes (because that went well, right?)

I'd say he's been listening quite intently to what has been said. Is that not what was wanted this time around?

I just read over the whole update. Looks like a good update to me. Quite informative. :bandit:

Asterios · Unread post by **Asterios** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:58 pm

bielmic wrote:Eh, I'll give credit where credit is due. They may not be showing the high profile stuff but they are showing new stuff like the finalized clear plastic template, dice, and a part of the painting guide that took them two months to do as well as May as a production start date which means that June and likely July are out of the running as delivery dates for the peasants (but might maybe still be possible for nobles who pay full retail at Gencon with some limited rush shipping for the con).

Problem is Palladium needs a retailers permit to sell at GenCon, so technically that means retail will have it before backers, which goes against everything PB said.

Also is it just me or do those dice look goofy or cartoony ?

Jerell · Unread post by **Jerell** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:00 pm

Nah, they look like normal dice. I would prefer green dice for Zentraedi though.

Asterios · Unread post by **Asterios** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:01 pm

Jerell wrote:Nah, they look like normal dice. I would prefer green dice for Zentraedi though.

You ever see the Dice Chessex does, now those dice look good, these dice look like they were done by the lowest bidder.

Jerell · Unread post by **Jerell** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:07 pm

Yeah. I've got a large variety of dice from all over the place. The ones in the update are opaque, look well formed. I wasn't expecting frosted or dwarven gemstone or anything like that.

Looks like they need a macro lens for the shot though.

Asterios · Unread post by **Asterios** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:12 pm

Jerell wrote:Yeah. I've got a large variety of dice from all over the place. The ones in the update are opaque, look well formed. I wasn't expecting frosted or dwarven gemstone or anything like that.

Looks like they need a macro lens for the shot though.

yeah but if you compare the dice in this update to the ones shown in the kickstarter I liked the look of the kickstarter ones over these.

Kryptt · Unread post by **Kryptt** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:14 pm

I thought the dice looked they were made by the lowest bidder too. Im seeing now that there is a huge discrepancy between PB RPG fans and PB miniatures fans. There's things that the RPG crowed will take lying down while those of us who play minis games won't.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:19 pm

I don't see a difference between any kind of fans as we are all dealing with the same company.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:20 pm

It is noble to think you can change the world perhaps. It is another thing entirely to convince a company head that the choices they have made for their business are wrong because you don't agree with them.

Jerell · Unread post by **Jerell** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:23 pm

The Zentraedi dice did look better in the KS picture, but the RDF ones look fairly dead on to me.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:30 pm

I like the descriptive text. Good one.

Jerell · Unread post by **Jerell** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:31 pm

Ninjabunny wrote:
Jerell wrote:The Zentraedi dice did look better in the KS picture, but the RDF ones look fairly dead on to me.

Palladium doesn't always use good photos when they post pictures. So the dice may look better in person.
As for this different player crap, the "rpg" players ride palladium harder then a cheap hooker in Amsterdam. So try that line some where else.

That's why I was saying it looked like they needed a macro lens for that shot.

Asterios · Unread post by **Asterios** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:49 pm

Wow just wow, the new update hasn't even reached 50 comments and it already has a few new faces voicing their displeasure with Palladium and the product, this is not boding well for Palladium.

Jorel · Unread post by **Jorel** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:09 pm

Take the drama back to the KS page with all your talk of things not boding well...it really is getting more and more like an announcer on WWE or whatever it is called now. Go ahead...read your post in that fake announcer voice and see how it sounds to you...

Jerell · Unread post by **Jerell** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:24 pm

Asterios wrote:Wow just wow, the new update hasn't even reached 50 comments and it already has a few new faces voicing their displeasure with Palladium and the product, this is not boding well for Palladium.

Like, relax man. Things are looking up.

bielmic · Unread post by **bielmic** » Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:29 pm

Asterios wrote:
bielmic wrote:Eh, I'll give credit where credit is due. They may not be showing the high profile stuff but they are showing new stuff like the finalized clear plastic template, dice, and a part of the painting guide that took them two months to do as well as May as a production start date which means that June and likely July are out of the running as delivery dates for the peasants (but might maybe still be possible for nobles who pay full retail at Gencon with some limited rush shipping for the con).

Problem is Palladium needs a retailers permit to sell at GenCon, so technically that means retail will have it before backers, which goes against everything PB said.

I used to think the same thing and spent some time trying to find exactly where they said it. Unfortunately, while I agree selling to consumers at gencon would be the latest in a series of poor moves if pledgers are left waiting and against the spirit of the proclamation, the exact text said we'd get the stuff before retailers and distributors. IIRC one place they mention it is the nov 1st update.