RRT - Getting rid of the vocal minority

[Jorel]

Makes sense, but it seams that is not the current policy.

[Asterios]

Palladium cannot afford to refund all discontenters, since right now I believe they cannot afford to do Wave 2 production and are having problems with wave 1 production.

[Alpha 11]

Palladium cannot afford to refund all discontenters, since right now I believe they cannot afford to do Wave 2 production and are having problems with wave 1 production.

Were did you get that info?

[Jorel]

He makes up lies to spread gossip and has been doing it constantly on the Kickstarter pages. His story themes change week to week, but the fox news world is ending chicken little drama is constantly there.

[bielmic]

Makes sense, but it seams that is not the current policy.

LOL.. can't tell if the seam/seem wordplay about the poor sprue layout is just a happy coincidence or on purpose.

[Asterios]

He makes up lies to spread gossip and has been doing it constantly on the Kickstarter pages. His story themes change week to week, but the fox news world is ending chicken little drama is constantly there.

Really go check my posts before the Spartan update had nothing but positivity for the project, then saw what they were trying to pass off as quality miniatures and about gagged.

[The Galactus Kid]

That doesn't mean that what you are saying in the earlier post is anything but speculation. Jorel is not wrong.

[Asterios]

That doesn't mean that what you are saying in the earlier post is anything but speculation. Jorel is not wrong.

well in the point about Palladium not having the money that is my opinion and I stated that's what I believe, did not say it is fact, or even stated it was fact, just that I believe it, but can honestly say i'm not the only one who thinks that either.

[Scott Gibbons]

That doesn't mean that what you are saying in the earlier post is anything but speculation. Jorel is not wrong.

well in the point about Palladium not having the money that is my opinion and I stated that's what I believe, did not say it is fact, or even stated it was fact, just that I believe it, but can honestly say i'm not the only one who thinks that either.

I think what everyone is getting at is 'what led you to this belief'?

[Scott Gibbons]

It's really very simple. Palladium says that only some tiny minority of backers are unhappy and they are accounted for by all the vocal posters like myself. This presents a very simple solution, give rebate to anyone who wants one and all the rest who are supposedly happy Palladium fans backing this Kickstarter will enjoy the peace and quiet.

In my own experience (from a different industry), giving the money back to the 'vocal minority' would not bring about 'peace and quiet', as that action does not actually address the problem, which is the disappointed expectations of those people. It might cause one or two to go away, but from what I've seen of human nature (which admittedly, is not from a gaming-business experience) the desire to complain will still be there because the feeling of disappointment will still be there.

I will quote this: “You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.” - Abraham Lincoln

[Jorel]

Also Peter Tosh...Get Up Stand Up.

[Kryptt]

That doesn't mean that what you are saying in the earlier post is anything but speculation. Jorel is not wrong.

well in the point about Palladium not having the money that is my opinion and I stated that's what I believe, did not say it is fact, or even stated it was fact, just that I believe it, but can honestly say i'm not the only one who thinks that either.

I think what everyone is getting at is 'what led you to this belief'?

It's probably a guess based on the extra expenses, paying for factory time, and such. In fact if PB was sincer about going into production 45 after the ks ended then that's even more money wasted like on the gencon miniatures and advertising for the game when nothing ever came of it. The longer this game takes to hit retail the shorter their profits.

[Kryptt]

That doesn't mean that what you are saying in the earlier post is anything but speculation.

Anymore than today's murmur. Just go ask the PF players. How many of them really think they'll get a book this year?


"I will try to squeak out one or two of these books this year, the rest will be 2015 releases."

I hope I'm wrong for their sake since they've been pinning away for some time.

[NMI]

Palladium cannot afford to refund all discontenters, since right now I believe they cannot afford to do Wave 2 production and are having problems with wave 1 production.

You do not know this for fact, nor has anything been said to even be led to this wild speculation. Now if you began this "belief" with "I believe,....." or "I think,....." then I probably would not have commented.

[Forar]

Sadly, it wouldn't work anyway. Not all of us providing critique are seeking a refund. I backed jointly with 2 friends, so even if I wanted one, I'm stuck moving part of my contribution (roughly half) on the secondary market to recoup costs.

Edit: I mean, I think giving appropriate refunds to those who seek them is a good idea.

But it wouldn't shut everyone up. >.>

[Asterios]

Palladium cannot afford to refund all discontenters, since right now I believe they cannot afford to do Wave 2 production and are having problems with wave 1 production.

You do not know this for fact, nor has anything been said to even be led to this wild speculation. Now if you began this "belief" with "I believe,....." or "I think,....." then I probably would not have commented.

Actually the First part I do know for a fact.

As it goes the longer this takes to get done, the less money that is left because more of it is being used, not too mention right now Palladium is robbing Peter to pay Paul, they will most likely end up trying to get a batch of the game to sell at GenCon before shipping to backers for 2 reasons:

1: if they have no product at GenCon for the game then they might as well give up, their window of opportunity will be over and the game will not get the desired advertising they are hoping for, furthermore their already tarnished reputation will take a punch to the gut like never before.

Remember they advertised the game would be available at GenCon. not might be available, but will be available.

2: They need the money plain and simple, the last of their reserves will be used to fast track a batch of product for GenCon so they can make the cash reserves to continue product shipment, which is one of the 2 reasons why they split up production into 2 waves.


They are foundering and treading water right now and its only getting worse thru mismanagement and mistakes.

[Kryptt]

Well PB did get rid of the vocal minority. Some over eager fanboy got the mods to move all our threads. Funny thing is no one broke any rules this time. Just some fan that can't handle grown ups talking.

[glitterboy2098]

to be fair, they just moved it to the correct forum.

[Kryptt]

There was a better way, actually a more "professional" way, by cloning the threads here, then closing and locking the others with a link over here.

Oh, actually, I quite believe that Palladium cannot afford to give refunds out. Why? Simple, the evidence I've gathered shows that the discontented backers are in the higher end of the money/backer ratio, usually having over 2x the average spent. So, if only 10% bailed out, at a minimum Palladium would be looking at losing ~$250,000 off the pledge amount. If my estimates are low, as I think they are, then it might by a third or more of the money gone. They cannot afford it.

Oh, yeah, I know the project has been hemorrhaging money every month, it might not be to the percentages others believe, but I've seen enough similar business situations and there are going to be lots of little expenses not related directly to delivering product going out.

I don't find it unlikely that a Peter/Paul scenario occurs as well. Otherwise, Palladium could take a couple of weeks to fix some of the more glaring issues with the minis they are supposed to be pushing long term. The way this is going, either the Kevin is crazy and farts unicorn rainbows theory is true, or this is more of a slash & burn deal where as much gets eaten up in expenses as possible, the backers get covered and retailers get dumped on with the cheapest crap possible to get by with.

That and NMI got pretty upset over this line of thinking. Maybe there's more to it than we are led to believe. Or not.

[Spinachcat]

I fully agree that PB should rebate the most vocal upset backers. It would be good defensive PR, if you could then be assured those backers no longer had access to the KS comment section. I don't know if that's possible.

I don't LIKE this idea, but from a business perspective, I see its value as potential PR tool.

[Seto Kaiba]

Well PB did get rid of the vocal minority. Some over eager fanboy got the mods to move all our threads. Funny thing is no one broke any rules this time. Just some fan that can't handle grown ups talking.

Er... at the risk of pointing out what may be a very significant hole in your reasoning, if the moderators on these forums were actually interested in silencing the discontent of the "vocal minority", then they're doing a pretty rubbish job of it. I mean, all they did was move the threads where people had been voicing their discontent over the handling of the game to the part of the boards dedicated to that game.

Seriously. If they were trying to actually get rid of the people complaining about Palladium's work on RRT, they'd have followed Harmony Gold's example of dealing with dissatisfied fans and other people who won't drink the proverbial Kool-Aid by summarily banning everyone for trivial or entirely fictitious offenses.*

*This is why Robotech.com has been a virtual ghost town since ~2009.



EDIT:

I fully agree that PB should rebate the most vocal upset backers. It would be good defensive PR, if you could then be assured those backers no longer had access to the KS comment section. I don't know if that's possible.

Considering public attitudes toward the Kickstarter lately... that might provoke a stampede of people demanding their money back.

[Kryptt]

Seto I clicked on your link and it showed me that LA WEEKLY was at HG. That's a free newspaper with ads for ladies of the night. HG must be desperate.lol

[Seto Kaiba]

Seto I clicked on your link and it showed me that LA WEEKLY was at HG. That's a free newspaper with ads for ladies of the night. HG must be desperate.lol

Er... what? I haven't posted any links, and the only link in my signature is to the Macross Mecha Manual's main index page.

I mean, I know Tommy's joked about the RTSC character designs being the result of lonely creative staff members... but still...

[Kryptt]

Robotech.com

Scroll down and it talks about how LA WEEKLY was at the HG offices. I still can't believe HG is bragging about it. It's like bragging your advertising on the adult section of Craig's list.lmaol
I'm in Hollywood too so I see those papers on the street all the time with the tart of the week gracing the cover.lol

The funny part is HG is only minutes away from the hustler store on sunset. The yune bros must get the same BS my friends and I get with ladies of the evening always hitting them up. Especially on the weekends. Anyways thanks for the laughs. Even if unintentional.

[Seto Kaiba]

Robotech.com

Scroll down and it talks about how LA WEEKLY was at the HG offices.

Oh... that didn't get rendered as a link, did it? Oh well. Yeah, not being from that area, that's news to me, my friend. I honestly haven't paid their news section any mind since... ... ... actually, I don't think I EVER paid their news section any mind, because the internal approvals process to post something on the company website meant that Harmony Gold was always the last one to post news about its own products.

I wonder how long after that interview the news entry was posted?

I still can't believe HG is bragging about it. It's like bragging your advertising on the adult section of Craig's list.lmaol
I'm in Hollywood too so I see those papers on the street all the time with the tart of the week gracing the cover.lol

Yeah, looking at the article itself and the website for the paper... that it's clearly not a publication of any repute is the kindest thing I can possibly say. I'm not sure what amuses me more about the article... the clear statement that they find Robotech depressing, or that Tommy made a valiant effort to claim it had an impact similar to an actually successful series like Game of Thrones. I also couldn't help but chuckle at their evasion of Harmony Gold's self-prepared plaudits... for all their other faults, clearly even LA Weekly's writers are not foolish enough to believe a show nobody remembers was a genre-defining masterpiece.

Especially on the weekends. Anyways thanks for the laughs. Even if unintentional.

You're welcome... I think.

[Kryptt]

Robotech.com

Scroll down and it talks about how LA WEEKLY was at the HG offices.

Oh... that didn't get rendered as a link, did it? Oh well. Yeah, not being from that area, that's news to me, my friend. I honestly haven't paid their news section any mind since... ... ... actually, I don't think I EVER paid their news section any mind, because the internal approvals process to post something on the company website meant that Harmony Gold was always the last one to post news about its own products.

I wonder how long after that interview the news entry was posted?

I still can't believe HG is bragging about it. It's like bragging your advertising on the adult section of Craig's list.lmaol
I'm in Hollywood too so I see those papers on the street all the time with the tart of the week gracing the cover.lol

Yeah, looking at the article itself and the website for the paper... that it's clearly not a publication of any repute is the kindest thing I can possibly say. I'm not sure what amuses me more about the article... the clear statement that they find Robotech depressing, or that Tommy made a valiant effort to claim it had an impact similar to an actually successful series like Game of Thrones. I also couldn't help but chuckle at their evasion of Harmony Gold's self-prepared plaudits... for all their other faults, clearly even LA Weekly's writers are not foolish enough to believe a show nobody remembers was a genre-defining masterpiece.

Especially on the weekends. Anyways thanks for the laughs. Even if unintentional.

You're welcome... I think.

I need to go read it because your making me laugh! I just saw la weekly and clicked back here. That was all I needed to know. I can't stop grinning! I think in HS tommy wasn't popular and still struggles to get people to take him and his job seriously. I mean can u imagine out on a date and then your asked, "so what do you do." What's he supposed to say? "Yeah I'm steward to a kids cartoon show from the mid 80's."lmaol. What then take her back to his place and watch shadow chronicles? Better yet LLA.LOL

God I still can't stop laughing.

[Seto Kaiba]

I need to go read it because your making me laugh! I just saw la weekly and clicked back here. That was all I needed to know. I can't stop grinning! [...]

Yeah, that article left a great big grin on my face... it's not often you find a newspaper being arm-twisted into covering Robotech savvy enough to do more than parrot the self-hagiography in Harmony Gold's press packet. Doubly so because it's such a scummy little rag and Harmony Gold is so PROUD of an article that doesn't speak well of them.

Then again, they've reached the point where their own employees are so sick of their own management's intransigence that they occasionally rant about it on the company's own forums. They don't even want to talk about the company's controversial stuff, so they throw the volunteer mods everyone hates at those threads until even the mods get sick of having egg on their faces.

I think in HS tommy wasn't popular and still struggles to get people to take him and his job seriously. I mean can u imagine out on a date and then your asked, "so what do you do." What's he supposed to say? "Yeah I'm steward to a kids cartoon show from the mid 80's."lmaol.

I dunno... my own personal experiences with Tommy left me thinking he's a fairly outgoing and reasonably affable guy. I doubt he was mister popularity back in the day, but he probably wasn't a "Sheldon Cooper" or anything like that. His job? Yeah, definitely date repellent. He's got enough of a sense of humor that he can joke about it, though.

[Warshield73]

Well PB did get rid of the vocal minority. Some over eager fanboy got the mods to move all our threads. Funny thing is no one broke any rules this time. Just some fan that can't handle grown ups talking.

Er... at the risk of pointing out what may be a very significant hole in your reasoning, if the moderators on these forums were actually interested in silencing the discontent of the "vocal minority", then they're doing a pretty rubbish job of it. I mean, all they did was move the threads where people had been voicing their discontent over the handling of the game to the part of the boards dedicated to that game.

Seriously. If they were trying to actually get rid of the people complaining about Palladium's work on RRT, they'd have followed Harmony Gold's example of dealing with dissatisfied fans and other people who won't drink the proverbial Kool-Aid by summarily banning everyone for trivial or entirely fictitious offenses.

Seto, why do you have to ruin a perfectly good persecution complex with your cursed logic?
And Kryppt, we're talking about little plastic toys here, not much "grown up talk" to be had.

Palladium cannot afford to refund all discontenters, since right now I believe they cannot afford to do Wave 2 production and are having problems with wave 1 production.

You do not know this for fact, nor has anything been said to even be led to this wild speculation. Now if you began this "belief" with "I believe,....." or "I think,....." then I probably would not have commented.

Actually the First part I do know for a fact.

As it goes the longer this takes to get done, the less money that is left because more of it is being used, not too mention right now Palladium is robbing Peter to pay Paul, they will most likely end up trying to get a batch of the game to sell at GenCon before shipping to backers for 2 reasons:

1: if they have no product at GenCon for the game then they might as well give up, their window of opportunity will be over and the game will not get the desired advertising they are hoping for, furthermore their already tarnished reputation will take a punch to the gut like never before.

Remember they advertised the game would be available at GenCon. not might be available, but will be available.

2: They need the money plain and simple, the last of their reserves will be used to fast track a batch of product for GenCon so they can make the cash reserves to continue product shipment, which is one of the 2 reasons why they split up production into 2 waves.

They are foundering and treading water right now and its only getting worse thru mismanagement and mistakes.

Actually, nothing in this post is a fact, your just making things up. When the backers get wave 1 before things go to Gen Con what are you going to do, come on here and apologize or just slither away and find something else to complain about? Now, if they take the first run to Gen Con and the backers have to wait you will have something to howl and scream about and this "fan boy" will absolutely join you. Until then your just pulling nonsense out of your...

As for refunding money to the vocal critics that is ridiculous. This game is really not what I was looking for either but it is still well within the guidelines of what they advertised and the time frame is not really that bad for a Kickstarter. I wish they had a better idea of the manufacturing time when they started this, if for no other reason then we wouldn't have to listen to the whining, but they didn't. Lots of Kickstarters finish behind schedule, I backed a video game where the beta, not even the finished game, is over a year late, and you can see examples like that all over. I have only backed two projects that have come in within 3 months of the due date.

If you give refunds to the complainers you destroy the purpose of the Kickstarter. The whole reason is to give people a chance to do something new, to see if it has a market before risking there own capital. Ever one of us backers, and by the way I put up over $500 and I am not demanding a refund, signed off on the "Risks and Challenges" disclaimer, I suggest reading it before asking for the refund.

I do apologize if I offended anyone, but I am truly sick of this rampant speculation and recriminations making an annoying wait for my new toys into a travesty of justice.

[Forar]

I do apologize if I offended anyone, but I am truly sick of this rampant speculation and recriminations making an annoying wait for my new toys into a travesty of justice.

So... don't read the threads?

They're pretty well marked out, and until we get a hell of a lot more info, there's not much else to talk about.

[Seto Kaiba]

Seto, why do you have to ruin a perfectly good persecution complex with your cursed logic?

It's a compulsion... I'm one of those madmen who believes the world should be governed by reason.

And Kryppt, we're talking about little plastic toys here, not much "grown up talk" to be had.

There's a fun dichotomy there... the tabletop war-gaming hobby in the UK, where the industry's dominant company is headquartered, is considered kid's stuff. Over here in the US, it's considered more of an adult hobby because of the prices involved. It takes all kinds, I guess... but in the grand scheme of things, the backers doing the complaining appear to, by in large, be ones who didn't read the terms and conditions of Kickstarter before throwing their money at it. Yeah, Palladium has their money, but they should never have thrown any more money at it than they were entirely prepared to lose in the worst-case scenario.

Actually, nothing in this post is a fact, your just making things up. When the backers get wave 1 before things go to Gen Con what are you going to do, come on here and apologize or just slither away and find something else to complain about?

I'll put $5 on the slithering.

[Kryptt]

Probably find something else to complain about. Especially after the last update. For those who are tired of the complaining stop responding. Your only helping divide the community more. In 40k circles some of us prefer different versions of the rules, but no one puts them down for it. We fans can all get along without putting each other down. I'm not happy that were getting cheap looking mini models and not proper miniatures. I though the plastic would reflect the parts breakdown of the GC minis. Now that I know how PB works I won't help fund any of their projects ever. I'll wait for retail if or when it comes out.

[Warshield73]

Probably find something else to complain about. Especially after the last update. For those who are tired of the complaining stop responding. Your only helping divide the community more. In 40k circles some of us prefer different versions of the rules, but no one puts them down for it. We fans can all get along without putting each other down. I'm not happy that were getting cheap looking mini models and not proper miniatures. I though the plastic would reflect the parts breakdown of the GC minis. Now that I know how PB works I won't help fund any of their projects ever. I'll wait for retail if or when it comes out.

See, here is the problem. If me people like me stand up for well reason and the basic tenants of Kickstarter then we "divide the community". If we don't, this very loud minority of complainers is allowed to pretend like they speak for all of us who funded through kickstarter.

Truth, I go out of my way to avoid these threads but the thread title was too much to ignore. I mean come on, "Getting rid of the vocal minority" when there are like 30 threads dedicated to it, plus the Kickstarter comments. Not a chance I am going to let someone get away with that, this far and farther.

And as far as

We fans can all get along without putting each other down.

No we can't. When somebody is stating there opinions and there frustration with the time tables yes would should all respect that and just move along if we don't want to read it. But when somebody is just through assertions out there (and I am desperately trying to avoid the other "L" word, sounds like dying) and presenting them as facts the rest of us must stand up.

I'm not happy that were getting cheap looking mini models and not proper miniatures. I though the plastic would reflect the parts breakdown of the GC minis. Now that I know how PB works I won't help fund any of their projects ever. I'll wait for retail if or when it comes out.

One problem with this. I spent $510 on minis (plus whatever the carry case cost) and I did a little math on the retail price. With estimated retail price what I purchased would cost around $680 to $710. So no matter how you slice it, we are getting a great deal as backers.

[Warshield73]

Seto, why do you have to ruin a perfectly good persecution complex with your cursed logic?

It's a compulsion... I'm one of those madmen who believes the world should be governed by reason.

And Kryppt, we're talking about little plastic toys here, not much "grown up talk" to be had.

There's a fun dichotomy there... the tabletop war-gaming hobby in the UK, where the industry's dominant company is headquartered, is considered kid's stuff. Over here in the US, it's considered more of an adult hobby because of the prices involved. It takes all kinds, I guess... but in the grand scheme of things, the backers doing the complaining appear to, by in large, be ones who didn't read the terms and conditions of Kickstarter before throwing their money at it. Yeah, Palladium has their money, but they should never have thrown any more money at it than they were entirely prepared to lose in the worst-case scenario.

Actually, nothing in this post is a fact, your just making things up. When the backers get wave 1 before things go to Gen Con what are you going to do, come on here and apologize or just slither away and find something else to complain about?

I'll put $5 on the slithering.

Seto Kaiba is my new hero.

[Seto Kaiba]

In 40k circles some of us prefer different versions of the rules, but no one puts them down for it.

Er... that's a statement with no connection to objective reality. The Warhammer 40,000 fanbase is forever up in arms over rules changes, just look at all the outrage every time we get some new codex or a rulebook update from your spiritual liege Matt Ward, or Robin Cruddance. Some players get condemned just for using units that are generally considered to be excessively cheesy, many of which are connected to the your spiritual liege's Matt Ward's Grey Knights codex. Before the update, Necron players got a lot of this too thanks to Gauss weapons auto-glancing on a 6.

Is the the kind of passion that leads to such debates necessarily bad? No... at least I don't think so.

What IS bad is people raging over completely unproveable accusations that Kevin is running some kind of investment scam and is using most of the capital for this game to save his business instead of develop the game... or because Kevin and co. didn't meet some arbitrary definition of quality they conceived without any actual involvement from the developers, etc. The people who are screaming themselves hoarse about how the game is garbage before it's even out are the ones hurting the game and the fandom... because they're preemptively spreading word that the game isn't worth anyone's time.

I'm not happy that were getting cheap looking mini models and not proper miniatures. I though the plastic would reflect the parts breakdown of the GC minis. Now that I know how PB works I won't help fund any of their projects ever. I'll wait for retail if or when it comes out.

Well, it was a Robotech project... so failure was always an option.

[Kryptt]

Sigh.

[Seto Kaiba]

Sigh.

Sorry, but we have to have a realistic outlook on this if we want our observations to mean anything... and the Warhammer 40,000 and Warhammer Fantasy fan bases are certainly no strangers to that exact kind of acrimonious bickering you claimed they didn't indulge in.

In truth, I doubt any game's fandom is immune to this.

[Warshield73]

I'm not happy that were getting cheap looking mini models and not proper miniatures. I though the plastic would reflect the parts breakdown of the GC minis. Now that I know how PB works I won't help fund any of their projects ever. I'll wait for retail if or when it comes out.

Well, it was a Robotech project... so failure was always an option.

Very true. I mean what happened to the 2 other animated movies that were supposed to come out as well as the live action movie? I love Robotech, it was my first PB game and the adds in one of the books are what got me to buy Rifts, but it is a black hole that devours all time and resources of PB.

[Seto Kaiba]

Well, it was a Robotech project... so failure was always an option.

Very true. I mean what happened to the 2 other animated movies that were supposed to come out as well as the live action movie? [...]

Oh, man... now there's a tale of madness and failure even Giorgio Tsoukalos couldn't blame on alien intervention!

Shortly after the Shadow Chronicles came out, Harmony Gold's Robotech staff was estimating the sequel would be ready within two years. Within a year, they'd changed their tune to saying RTSC II was on indefinite hiatus. Then they started saying that they'd placed RTSC II on indefinite hiatus for an actual reason... so that they'd be able to get an actual budget by riding the hype that the success of a live-action Robotech movie would generate. Naturally, that didn't work out either... after their big talk about how the movie being fast-tracked and set to become Warner's new tentpole sci-fi/action film franchise proved to be so empty that even the fans drinking the proverbial Kool-Aid started to ask some very uncomfortable questions. When the 25th Anniversary rolled around, the best they could muster to commemorate it after Carl Macek died was a hilariously revisionist documentary about Robotech to celebrate Macek's contribution and five minutes of new animation slapped onto a bad edit of the original Genesis Climber MOSPEADA's wrap-up OVA... and thus Love Live Alive was marketed as "new" and "never before seen" despite anyone with access to YouTube having been able to see it there for at least ten years now. The edited Robotech: Love Live Alive was was only released as a DVD extra with the latest completely unnecessary re-release of the Robotech series on home video.

Since then, all they've done is recant their previous claims that "on indefinite hiatus" didn't honestly mean they weren't working on RTSC II and announce that they've resumed work on Part II of the 4th Robotech saga.

('course, that's coming back to bite Harmony Gold in the arse with the few remaining fans drawing rather unfavorable comparisons between Robotech's 8+ years of saying "the stars are not right" to excuse their failure to produce now that Macross has announced another series is in the offing.)

I love Robotech, it was my first PB game and the adds in one of the books are what got me to buy Rifts, but it is a black hole that devours all time and resources of PB.

I dunno about that... now that Harmony Gold has basically put the kibosh on Palladium developing original material for the Robotech RPG, their doesn't exactly runneth over with Robotech related to-dos apart from the RPG Tactics game.

[Warshield73]

I love Robotech, it was my first PB game and the adds in one of the books are what got me to buy Rifts, but it is a black hole that devours all time and resources of PB.

I dunno about that... now that Harmony Gold has basically put the kibosh on Palladium developing original material for the Robotech RPG, their doesn't exactly runneth over with Robotech related to-dos apart from the RPG Tactics game.

I hope this is true. Once tactics and the two UEEF Marines books are out maybe the black hole stops sucking so much.

Notice how we don't here about the promised Robotech Spacecraft book(s) and I could swear they mentioned a New Macross era SB in a weekly update a few months back but then poof, nothing.

[Seto Kaiba]

I hope this is true. Once tactics and the two UEEF Marines books are out maybe the black hole stops sucking so much.

Well, they're outta ideas after that's done though... Harmony Gold seems to be pretty dedicated to keeping the RPG on a short leash, and they're technically already out of material. What's going into the those UEEF Marines books is rejected concept art from the original Genesis Climber MOSPEADA.

Notice how we don't here about the promised Robotech Spacecraft book(s) and I could swear they mentioned a New Macross era SB in a weekly update a few months back but then poof, nothing.

Er... Warshield, buddy... I got some bad news for you that you may have missed. The reason they don't talk about the Spaceships book is because it was canceled years ago. The "new" Macross Saga book is also just a reprint of the existing one at the traditional 8 1/2 x 11 size instead of manga-sized.

[Warshield73]

Notice how we don't here about the promised Robotech Spacecraft book(s) and I could swear they mentioned a New Macross era SB in a weekly update a few months back but then poof, nothing.

Er... Warshield, buddy... I got some bad news for you that you may have missed. The reason they don't talk about the Spaceships book is because it was canceled years ago. The "new" Macross Saga book is also just a reprint of the existing one at the traditional 8 1/2 x 11 size instead of manga-sized.

Yeah I know this, I should have phrased my comment better. As for the Macross SB, it was a separate one called Zentraedi Protectorate Sourcebook, they mentioned it in October but then I heard nothing about it. I assumed it met the same fate as the spacecraft books I so desperately wanted but I did not go to great lengths to check.

Again, I should have phrased this better as sarcasm does not come across well in text.

[Seto Kaiba]

Again, I should have phrased this better as sarcasm does not come across well in text.

Ah, ok... sarcasm detection failure. Oh well.

As for the Macross SB, it was a separate one called Zentraedi Protectorate Sourcebook, they mentioned it in October but then I heard nothing about it. I assumed it met the same fate as the spacecraft books I so desperately wanted but I did not go to great lengths to check.

Possible... though, if memory serves, the Spaceships book got canned because Palladium let the author go while it was still a work in progress. It may have also been dropped if Harmony Gold didn't think the idea at the heart of it was in compliance with the story they've set down.

[Warshield73]

Possible... though, if memory serves, the Spaceships book got canned because Palladium let the author go while it was still a work in progress. It may have also been dropped if Harmony Gold didn't think the idea at the heart of it was in compliance with the story they've set down.

It could be either reason, but the spaceship books were still being listed in Rifters last spring and they let Jason Marker go years ago so I have to wonder...

[Jerell]

IDK, but I would love to have a dedicated Robotech spaceships book. I'd use the stuff in 3G if nothing else. It'd be great reference for fans too.

[Warshield73]

I mainly wanted it for the different fleet ships of the UEEF/ASC. I mean in the old books we didn't even have the Tristars stats, now we do. It would be nice to add the Tokugawa as well plus there is all the Zentreadi ships they still have not given us updated stats for.

[Kryptt]

I really wish Kevin would have the ninjas redo the vf-1. After seeing those pics I'm really disappointed. Yes seto I know it's PB and HG and it's RT so it's automatically doomed to fail. But I did have hope. On the plus side when this is over most of us unhappy backers will go away and these forums can go back to normal.

[Seto Kaiba]

IDK, but I would love to have a dedicated Robotech spaceships book. I'd use the stuff in 3G if nothing else. It'd be great reference for fans too.

I'd love to have a Macross Saga one as a starting point for me to heavily correct and use in my Macross game... but no dice, I guess.

EDIT: As far as reference material goes, that's what the OSM is for... the authentic specifications of the ships and mecha by the people who actually created the animation. The only problem is that because no specs were created for the ships (and almost none of the mecha) of Southern Cross, there isn't any material to go to for that part.

I really wish Kevin would have the ninjas redo the vf-1. After seeing those pics I'm really disappointed. Yes seto I know it's PB and HG and it's RT so it's automatically doomed to fail. But I did have hope. On the plus side when this is over most of us unhappy backers will go away and these forums can go back to normal.

I didn't think they were THAT awful... not great, but not beyond the ability of a competent miniatures gamer to salvage into something presentable.

[Kryptt]

The latest updates on ND's FB are doing more to restore backer confidence than the PB ones. I'm more confident with the fact that their still tweaking the vf-1 and we'll get various leg poses with the other vf variant kits.

[Forar]

I didn't think they were THAT awful... not great, but not beyond the ability of a competent miniatures gamer to salvage into something presentable.

Given how many people in the comments have noted that RRT will be their first miniatures game, needing to be a "competent miniatures gamer" to "salvage it into something presentable" could be... a rather significant issue.

NOTE: before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, it's certainly a given that those with experience will have an edge on those that don't, but there's a vast spectrum in user friendliness between "assembles in 10 minutes without much trouble" and "requires a small tool box, specialty gear and a pile of green stuff/putty/files/etc to produce a good looking piece".

[Seto Kaiba]

Given how many people in the comments have noted that RRT will be their first miniatures game, needing to be a "competent miniatures gamer" to "salvage it into something presentable" could be... a rather significant issue.

Possibly... though few of the miniatures I've seen would pose much challenge to anyone with a relatively modest level of competency in model-building. While it's true there's a bit of a gap between "competent with miniatures assembly and painting" and "new to the hobby", it's not a very big one. I'm not saying it would be easy to make these look professional, merely that it wouldn't be too difficult to turn what Ninja Division is kicking out the door into something that you could show people without them saying you suck.

At this scale, I think seams are ultimately going to be less of an issue than the new gamers not properly thinning their paints and slopping on detail-eradicating layers. There's a reason the "entry level" army in most tabletop games tends to have a lot of broad, flat, low-detail surfaces that are forgiving for newbie painters... and I see RRT's miniatures having a pretty steep learning curve in that respect.

NOTE: before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, it's certainly a given that those with experience will have an edge on those that don't, but there's a vast spectrum in user friendliness between "assembles in 10 minutes without much trouble" and "requires a small tool box, specialty gear and a pile of green stuff/putty/files/etc to produce a good looking piece".

Most miniatures shouldn't be slapped together in ten minutes if you want the end result to look good... but, as it stands, I don't see RRT's miniatures needing green stuff and a pile of specialist knives, rasps, sandpaper, and so on. Ninja Division's handiwork is mediocre, maybe even poor, but not so much so that you'd need to send in the art majors just to get something that doesn't look like abstract art.