mega hero? natural genius?

[hinomaru]

why is the natural genius a mega hero? if a mutant who is not can get nearly everything as a natural genius ... if it really mega hero or is it a typo because in 1 printing it says its a mega hero and the other it doesn't...can you clear this up for me?
mutant can get 6 minors your better then the mega hero natural genius which is crazy then it should be a normal class...

[Glistam]

In the first printing of Powers Unlimited 2, on page 75, the "Natural Genius" power category is directed to use the Psionics xp chart. No-where in the write up of the character do I see it noted that they are a Mega Hero.

[Incriptus]

It is a difference between printings

2nd printing 2006. Directly under the heading "Natural Genius" it has some sub text saying "Optional Mega-Hero Character (or NPC Villian)

I can't imagine why such a note was added as I agree I don't see the Natural Genius as a Mega Hero at all. Vast Education and 4 very minor powers does not make a Mega Hero.

Also it's kind of funny ... notice that the Minor Hero Option includes Natural Genius as one of the categories that you create as normal. Somehow Natural Genius is both a Mega-Hero and a Minor-Hero at the same time

[NMI]

I believe it is due to the sheer # of skills AND special abilities that they get.

Somewhere along the lines of 10+ programs and 12+secondaries.

They start with something like 4-5 special abilities that can be traded in for MORE programs.

[BillionSix]

Yeah, there was a lot of argument along the lines of "Why would anyone want to take the Hardware type, when the Natural Genius does everything better?"
So, my guess is they made it a Mega-Hero to address that. Like it's like the Hardware but advance slower.

[hinomaru]

I believe it is due to the sheer # of skills AND special abilities that they get.

Somewhere along the lines of 10+ programs and 12+secondaries.

They start with something like 4-5 special abilities that can be traded in for MORE programs.

you can do the exact same thing just playing an immortal which some are not mega heroes.... roll education play the human immortal masters and up plus if your 400+ yrs tah dah 11 programs and like 18 secondary.....plus you roll on the power category they have see where you get majors and minors possibly master psionics or a wizard supreme maybe 3 major 2 minors or 2 majors 3 minors and more skills thats why the natural genius IS NOT! a power category that should be labelled as a mega hero... i mean there are so many things you can do that out shine the natural genius 4 minors does not make a mega hero with those skills... oh wait lets use the dual class method hardware-Mutant or hardware-alien or hardware-experiment tah dah again much more for a mega hero a natural genius is kinda of lame of you guys to label it so.... the hardware weapons give away some W.P another 1 class that has more skills, budget and gear then the natural genius..and it doesnt make a hardware a megahero shyt you even have a mega hero version of a hardware which is sicking making the natural genius was a very limiting to the class and having a narrow scope of the entire system when you compare it to everything in heroes unlimited alone.. that is trash that its a natural genius...next printing if it happens you should remove it or make an errata and remove it because again when you look at the scope of the system when making a class you make it equivalent to the others with its strengths and weaknesses what you did is put superman next to macgyver and called him a mega hero lol that's which is not a mega hero..see if the natural genius was broken up in to different specializations ( hardware like ) like the mechanical/electrical specialist and makes an IRON Man armor or have a huge budget to do stuff i can see it close to a mega hero but again its just a hardware and the natural genius has NOTHING!!!!! just cause your smart doesn't mean you have the resources to build things, a mega hero is a larger then life to heroes character not a smart nerd that can get shot and killed by a street punk with a .22 caliber i don't want to insult you guys did a great job creating a class not amega hero but productive criticism helps build a better game.. i think i'll go to the next open house and just talk to you guys ....because you need a better scope of what you guys are doing....lol

[hinomaru]

Yeah, there was a lot of argument along the lines of "Why would anyone want to take the Hardware type, when the Natural Genius does everything better?"
So, my guess is they made it a Mega-Hero to address that. Like it's like the Hardware but advance slower.

i think they didnt put serious thought in to it or a look at the entire system and then judge it...its a hardware with no budget...lol yeah lets call it a mega hero lol it should be called a mega squishy plus trading away there special powers that make them natural geniuses uhm no that makes you a normal guy with a ton of skills why WHY WOULD you trade away the thing that makes you your class?.

[NMI]

I believe it is due to the sheer # of skills AND special abilities that they get.

Somewhere along the lines of 10+ programs and 12+secondaries.

They start with something like 4-5 special abilities that can be traded in for MORE programs.

you can do the exact same thing just playing an immortal which some are not mega heroes.... roll education play the human immortal masters and up plus if your 400+ yrs tah dah 11 programs and like 18 secondary.....plus you roll on the power category they have see where you get majors and minors possibly master psionics or a wizard supreme maybe 3 major 2 minors or 2 majors 3 minors and more skills thats why the natural genius IS NOT! a power category that should be labelled as a mega hero... i mean there are so many things you can do that out shine the natural genius 4 minors does not make a mega hero with those skills... oh wait lets use the dual class method hardware-Mutant or hardware-alien or hardware-experiment tah dah again much more for a mega hero a natural genius is kinda of lame of you guys to label it so.... the hardware weapons give away some W.P another 1 class that has more skills, budget and gear then the natural genius..and it doesnt make a hardware a megahero shyt you even have a mega hero version of a hardware which is sicking making the natural genius was a very limiting to the class and having a narrow scope of the entire system when you compare it to everything in heroes unlimited alone.. that is trash that its a natural genius...next printing if it happens you should remove it or make an errata and remove it because again when you look at the scope of the system when making a class you make it equivalent to the others with its strengths and weaknesses what you did is put superman next to macgyver and called him a mega hero lol that's which is not a mega hero..see if the natural genius was broken up in to different specializations ( hardware like ) like the mechanical/electrical specialist and makes an IRON Man armor or have a huge budget to do stuff i can see it close to a mega hero but again its just a hardware and the natural genius has NOTHING!!!!! just cause your smart doesn't mean you have the resources to build things, a mega hero is a larger then life to heroes character not a smart nerd that can get shot and killed by a street punk with a .22 caliber i don't want to insult you guys did a great job creating a class not amega hero but productive criticism helps build a better game.. i think i'll go to the next open house and just talk to you guys ....because you need a better scope of what you guys are doing....lol

[ADMIN VOICE]First, let's try and be a little bit more respectful of the company whose forums you are a member of.[/ADMIN VOICE]

Although yes, it is possible for a "non-mega" Immortal to gain a similar amount of skills, a: you have to make very specific rolls on the various tables or b: specifically choose the right selections from the various tables to get as many skills as a Natural Genius. c: An Natural Genius is pretty much garaunteed to start with most of their skills at or above 80% at 1st level -- an Immortal is not. d: most immortals [Mega or not] get fairly decent attribute bonuses, higher then normal SDC, HP bonuses, and other bonuses AND powers -- the Natural Genius might get an IQ bump, a handful of minor power-like abilities and lots of skills. e:By the book, your dual-class mutant/hardware, etc... is not legal with the possible exception of Alien/Hardware or Alien/Mutant, etc... though I look at "Alien" as just choosing your race and mutant/hardware/etc is choosing your class.

In my opinion, I think all of the Immortals should be considered Mega-Heroes. But that is just my opinion.

By the way, I use the "class" and "Power Category" interchangeably as to me, they mean the same thing.

[hinomaru]

but if you consider them all then you contradicted your self when you read the heroes unlimited mega hero section which i have notice you guys do a lot....its suppose to be a larger then life character type jumping in front of bullets stopped trucks from driving over little dogs or children or some of the immortals that state MEGA hero the godling or demon lord i can see them as mega heroes comic book icons.....and by using your rules in the rifter or aliens books where you can choose an occ you can come up with the skills legally...plus you forget an immortal starts at 2nd to 5th level meaning there skills will be equal or higher then a natural genius...even the heroic hellion shouldn't be a mega hero have to seen what they get lol its laughable. let me clear that comment up the straight heroic hellion generic i'm talking about.. you need to add a skills table so a player can roll and see what type of position he held, spy assassin stuff like that a hand full or skills and i want to ask a funny question about that class... you clearly say the powers on that list for the heroic hellion but the power in the beginning of the book says you had to have been an evil person to have chosen this or a devil or demon blah blah or heroic hellion. when you look up the heroic hellion your stuck with whats on the list in that section? why is that its a contradiction? back to the other subject there are rules in the rifter that state you can chose a skill class and power class mix only and you cant chose a mega hero class to do this... so its totally legal about mutant hardware or the sort because of the mix of course its clear on the no powers and power class combos or skills and skills... for a game that is called heroes unlimited its very limiting.. and i have played everyone of your games since around 1983-1984 ish when i had the black book... i even still own rifts: man hunter which you guys never continued...

I believe it is due to the sheer # of skills AND special abilities that they get.

Somewhere along the lines of 10+ programs and 12+secondaries.

They start with something like 4-5 special abilities that can be traded in for MORE programs.

you can do the exact same thing just playing an immortal which some are not mega heroes.... roll education play the human immortal masters and up plus if your 400+ yrs tah dah 11 programs and like 18 secondary.....plus you roll on the power category they have see where you get majors and minors possibly master psionics or a wizard supreme maybe 3 major 2 minors or 2 majors 3 minors and more skills thats why the natural genius IS NOT! a power category that should be labelled as a mega hero... i mean there are so many things you can do that out shine the natural genius 4 minors does not make a mega hero with those skills... oh wait lets use the dual class method hardware-Mutant or hardware-alien or hardware-experiment tah dah again much more for a mega hero a natural genius is kinda of lame of you guys to label it so.... the hardware weapons give away some W.P another 1 class that has more skills, budget and gear then the natural genius..and it doesnt make a hardware a megahero shyt you even have a mega hero version of a hardware which is sicking making the natural genius was a very limiting to the class and having a narrow scope of the entire system when you compare it to everything in heroes unlimited alone.. that is trash that its a natural genius...next printing if it happens you should remove it or make an errata and remove it because again when you look at the scope of the system when making a class you make it equivalent to the others with its strengths and weaknesses what you did is put superman next to macgyver and called him a mega hero lol that's which is not a mega hero..see if the natural genius was broken up in to different specializations ( hardware like ) like the mechanical/electrical specialist and makes an IRON Man armor or have a huge budget to do stuff i can see it close to a mega hero but again its just a hardware and the natural genius has NOTHING!!!!! just cause your smart doesn't mean you have the resources to build things, a mega hero is a larger then life to heroes character not a smart nerd that can get shot and killed by a street punk with a .22 caliber i don't want to insult you guys did a great job creating a class not amega hero but productive criticism helps build a better game.. i think i'll go to the next open house and just talk to you guys ....because you need a better scope of what you guys are doing....lol

[ADMIN VOICE]First, let's try and be a little bit more respectful of the company whose forums you are a member of.[/ADMIN VOICE]

Although yes, it is possible for a "non-mega" Immortal to gain a similar amount of skills, a: you have to make very specific rolls on the various tables or b: specifically choose the right selections from the various tables to get as many skills as a Natural Genius. c: An Natural Genius is pretty much garaunteed to start with most of their skills at or above 80% at 1st level -- an Immortal is not. d: most immortals [Mega or not] get fairly decent attribute bonuses, higher then normal SDC, HP bonuses, and other bonuses AND powers -- the Natural Genius might get an IQ bump, a handful of minor power-like abilities and lots of skills. e:By the book, your dual-class mutant/hardware, etc... is not legal with the possible exception of Alien/Hardware or Alien/Mutant, etc... though I look at "Alien" as just choosing your race and mutant/hardware/etc is choosing your class.

In my opinion, I think all of the Immortals should be considered Mega-Heroes. But that is just my opinion.

By the way, I use the "class" and "Power Category" interchangeably as to me, they mean the same thing.

[NMI]

I have said my piece on the matter. I have nothing else to add.

MY Opinion: I think the Natural Genius deserves to be considered a Mega and in MY games, I will consider the Power Category of Natural Genius a Mega.

[wyrmraker]

In my opinion, the Natural Genius can easily be a Mega-Hero. For a good example, look at the Iron Man movies. "Tony Stark built this! In a cave! With a box of scraps!"
Depending on how the NG is run, they can easily do everything that an Invention sort can do. Advanced powered armor? Sure. Fiddle with the quantum structure of the universe and make a blaster out of it? Why not? They have the skills, they just need the resources.

In fact, I think that the lack of resources is about the only thing I dislike about the NG. I don't see why a Natural Genius wouldn't have thousands of dollars of income every month from patent rights and the like, they're effectively written up as essentially broke from first level.

[Nightmask]

In my opinion, the Natural Genius can easily be a Mega-Hero. For a good example, look at the Iron Man movies. "Tony Stark built this! In a cave! With a box of scraps!"
Depending on how the NG is run, they can easily do everything that an Invention sort can do. Advanced powered armor? Sure. Fiddle with the quantum structure of the universe and make a blaster out of it? Why not? They have the skills, they just need the resources.

In fact, I think that the lack of resources is about the only thing I dislike about the NG. I don't see why a Natural Genius wouldn't have thousands of dollars of income every month from patent rights and the like, they're effectively written up as essentially broke from first level.

Maybe they're all broke like that because they spent everything at that point to acquire all those skills and abilities? They haven't had time to exploit it in trying to set up marketable patents (just being a genius doesn't mean you can automatically manage them after all) or otherwise make a mint off of what they are.

[wyrmraker]

In my opinion, the Natural Genius can easily be a Mega-Hero. For a good example, look at the Iron Man movies. "Tony Stark built this! In a cave! With a box of scraps!"
Depending on how the NG is run, they can easily do everything that an Invention sort can do. Advanced powered armor? Sure. Fiddle with the quantum structure of the universe and make a blaster out of it? Why not? They have the skills, they just need the resources.

In fact, I think that the lack of resources is about the only thing I dislike about the NG. I don't see why a Natural Genius wouldn't have thousands of dollars of income every month from patent rights and the like, they're effectively written up as essentially broke from first level.

Maybe they're all broke like that because they spent everything at that point to acquire all those skills and abilities? They haven't had time to exploit it in trying to set up marketable patents (just being a genius doesn't mean you can automatically manage them after all) or otherwise make a mint off of what they are.

I get where you're going with that, but a wise Genius would take a skill that gives them business acumen. And as I recall, in the description for money they don't seem to ever save anything. "Down and out", "Between jobs", and "Living off a big score" are the money options. Kind of short sighted for a modern Genius. After all, any Natural Genius would know that working for a company means that their inventive genius would belong to that company while they work for them.

[Nightmask]

In my opinion, the Natural Genius can easily be a Mega-Hero. For a good example, look at the Iron Man movies. "Tony Stark built this! In a cave! With a box of scraps!"
Depending on how the NG is run, they can easily do everything that an Invention sort can do. Advanced powered armor? Sure. Fiddle with the quantum structure of the universe and make a blaster out of it? Why not? They have the skills, they just need the resources.

In fact, I think that the lack of resources is about the only thing I dislike about the NG. I don't see why a Natural Genius wouldn't have thousands of dollars of income every month from patent rights and the like, they're effectively written up as essentially broke from first level.

Maybe they're all broke like that because they spent everything at that point to acquire all those skills and abilities? They haven't had time to exploit it in trying to set up marketable patents (just being a genius doesn't mean you can automatically manage them after all) or otherwise make a mint off of what they are.

I get where you're going with that, but a wise Genius would take a skill that gives them business acumen. And as I recall, in the description for money they don't seem to ever save anything. "Down and out", "Between jobs", and "Living off a big score" are the money options. Kind of short sighted for a modern Genius. After all, any Natural Genius would know that working for a company means that their inventive genius would belong to that company while they work for them.

Being a genius doesn't mean you're also wise, while many geniuses do well many others don't even though you'd think they'd be highly successful. So yes modern geniuses are just as vulnerable to being short-sighted as everyone else, maybe even more susceptible BECAUSE they're thinking too much about how smart that they refuse to consider options from 'lesser' minds.

Now from the meta viewpoint it's to restrict them at start due to having so many bonuses and abilities available to them, so the Natural Genius category is made up of only people who've got that level of short-sightedness even though realistically some should be starting out with greater wealth and/or a better and steadier revenue stream.

[wyrmraker]

In my opinion, the Natural Genius can easily be a Mega-Hero. For a good example, look at the Iron Man movies. "Tony Stark built this! In a cave! With a box of scraps!"
Depending on how the NG is run, they can easily do everything that an Invention sort can do. Advanced powered armor? Sure. Fiddle with the quantum structure of the universe and make a blaster out of it? Why not? They have the skills, they just need the resources.

In fact, I think that the lack of resources is about the only thing I dislike about the NG. I don't see why a Natural Genius wouldn't have thousands of dollars of income every month from patent rights and the like, they're effectively written up as essentially broke from first level.

Maybe they're all broke like that because they spent everything at that point to acquire all those skills and abilities? They haven't had time to exploit it in trying to set up marketable patents (just being a genius doesn't mean you can automatically manage them after all) or otherwise make a mint off of what they are.

I get where you're going with that, but a wise Genius would take a skill that gives them business acumen. And as I recall, in the description for money they don't seem to ever save anything. "Down and out", "Between jobs", and "Living off a big score" are the money options. Kind of short sighted for a modern Genius. After all, any Natural Genius would know that working for a company means that their inventive genius would belong to that company while they work for them.

Being a genius doesn't mean you're also wise, while many geniuses do well many others don't even though you'd think they'd be highly successful. So yes modern geniuses are just as vulnerable to being short-sighted as everyone else, maybe even more susceptible BECAUSE they're thinking too much about how smart that they refuse to consider options from 'lesser' minds.

Now from the meta viewpoint it's to restrict them at start due to having so many bonuses and abilities available to them, so the Natural Genius category is made up of only people who've got that level of short-sightedness even though realistically some should be starting out with greater wealth and/or a better and steadier revenue stream.

I see where you're coming from with that, but I'm going to have to disagree. Just taking the skill Business & Finance would solve that problem.

[Nightmask]

In my opinion, the Natural Genius can easily be a Mega-Hero. For a good example, look at the Iron Man movies. "Tony Stark built this! In a cave! With a box of scraps!"
Depending on how the NG is run, they can easily do everything that an Invention sort can do. Advanced powered armor? Sure. Fiddle with the quantum structure of the universe and make a blaster out of it? Why not? They have the skills, they just need the resources.

In fact, I think that the lack of resources is about the only thing I dislike about the NG. I don't see why a Natural Genius wouldn't have thousands of dollars of income every month from patent rights and the like, they're effectively written up as essentially broke from first level.

Maybe they're all broke like that because they spent everything at that point to acquire all those skills and abilities? They haven't had time to exploit it in trying to set up marketable patents (just being a genius doesn't mean you can automatically manage them after all) or otherwise make a mint off of what they are.

I get where you're going with that, but a wise Genius would take a skill that gives them business acumen. And as I recall, in the description for money they don't seem to ever save anything. "Down and out", "Between jobs", and "Living off a big score" are the money options. Kind of short sighted for a modern Genius. After all, any Natural Genius would know that working for a company means that their inventive genius would belong to that company while they work for them.

Being a genius doesn't mean you're also wise, while many geniuses do well many others don't even though you'd think they'd be highly successful. So yes modern geniuses are just as vulnerable to being short-sighted as everyone else, maybe even more susceptible BECAUSE they're thinking too much about how smart that they refuse to consider options from 'lesser' minds.

Now from the meta viewpoint it's to restrict them at start due to having so many bonuses and abilities available to them, so the Natural Genius category is made up of only people who've got that level of short-sightedness even though realistically some should be starting out with greater wealth and/or a better and steadier revenue stream.

I see where you're coming from with that, but I'm going to have to disagree. Just taking the skill Business & Finance would solve that problem.

Given how many people have that skill in RL and are failures I have to disagree with the idea that 'hey all I need is Business and Finance skill and I'm certain to be a success', nothing's that certain (although I agree that it's at least as unrealistic that Natural Geniuses are all the failures when they start the game even when many would have business/finance skills as part of their collection of skills).