Rune weapon Question

[kamikazzijoe]

In RUE (pg 221 gold edition) it also says rune weapons lose all their abilities including the +1 save and telepathy. They retain indestructibility and inflict M.D. That says any benefits of bonding are gone while in the cloud leading to the conclusion that the wielder would have to save.

[MADMANMIKE]

So it depends on which game you're playing; if you're playing Palladium Fantasy, it specifically says that the caster is exempt from the effects (as are Rune and Holy Weapons), allowing them to cast magic with impunity (and thus the G.M. should rule whether or not that ability transfers from Rune Weapon to bonded owner), but in RIFTS no such immunity is granted to either the caster or rune/holy weapons. Heroes Unlimited 2E works the same as Palladium Fantasy 2E.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The cloud's effect is as singular as it is spectacular; it simply negates all magic! Practitioners of magic cannot use magic of any kind, and most magic weapons, items, devices, scrolls, potions, fumes and charms are impotent. Any object of magic (except runes and rune swords/weapons) are rendered harmless as long as it is under the anti-magic cloud.

In the PFRPG2 MB is the same paragraph of the text is the same as the HU2 text.
The NS/NB MB does not have the AMC listed in it's spells

There are a few operative words in the text; Negate, impotent, and harmless; each with different meanings.
As they appear to be used in the sentences they appear in.
Negate: to cancel forcibly from the outside.
Impotent: to have not power to have any effect.
Harmless: to make it unable to be used to harm others.

To take things as a whole there are two things that are said in the text, "Active Magic is canceled and can not be activated." and "Magic stuff (except the most powerful) does not work while in a AMC."

So the answer to the OP Q is...
Since the magic is coming from the Rune Weapon, it is the Rune Weapon that does any saving throw rolls cause they are what is making the magic.

Other things...
Rune Weapons spell magic is not available for use while in a AMC unless they save vs the AMC magic. But their weapon damage is still 'active'.
Whether the roll is "vs 18" or vs "Nat 18" is dependent on the setting.

Other based on text from all the books...
Rune weapons, HU Magic Weapons, Holy Weapons, and NB Artifacts all "Rune Weapons!".

[kamikazzijoe]

AMC cloud takes 3 actions to cast as a level 11 spell (in rifts).

OP, did your character use his actions to cast the spell or did the weapon do it for you?

If the weapon did it, then you would be hard pressed to say your character is the caster for purpose of the caster's immunity.

[kamikazzijoe]

...but in RIFTS no such immunity is granted to either the caster or rune/holy weapons.

Source?

The BOM seems to say rune weapons are immune. (BOM, p138, AMC)

I would like to point out that RUE and BOM do not have the exact same text. As RUE came later, it should be the reference for Rift environments.

[drewkitty ~..~]

AMC cloud takes 3 actions to cast as a level 11 spell (in rifts).

Yep, you are right that in rifts and when using the spell casting times in RUE or if using RUE as your canon.
In other settings have not been changed so the canon is still two spells per melee.
However, in PF2 using the RUE rules are optional as of MoM1.

[MADMANMIKE]

...but in RIFTS no such immunity is granted to either the caster or rune/holy weapons.

Source?

The BOM seems to say rune weapons are immune. (BOM, p138, AMC)

I would like to point out that RUE and BOM do not have the exact same text. As RUE came later, it should be the reference for Rift environments.

That's certainly a valid point.

Yes, as kamikazzijoe says, it's at the end of the spell description in RUE. I have first, and second printings (must have given away my 6th printing), and the gold edition, and it's the same in all three.

[Tor]

Does RUE explicitly state that the immunity described in BoM is gone?

If something from preceding books not being mentioned in RUE means it doesn't exist then we may as well ignore RUE as its own dimension book that doesn't fit with any other books.

[eliakon]

Does RUE explicitly state that the immunity described in BoM is gone?

If something from preceding books not being mentioned in RUE means it doesn't exist then we may as well ignore RUE as its own dimension book that doesn't fit with any other books.

If something is reprinted though, the new version is generally considered to be the...new version. So yes, if something is redone, and it does not have something in it, that thing is not in the new version. The BoM version said it had immunity, the RUE version doesn't that means that the RUE version....doesn't have the immunity, since its not in its description.

[kamikazzijoe]

So to rephrase for clarity (RUE gold edition), Rune weapons are devastated by an AMC losing every power but indestructibility and inflicting MDC. No casting, no soul sucking or other special picks, no telepathy, no +1 saving throw
The AMC caster is still immune to his own AMC.

[Tor]

If something is reprinted though, the new version is generally considered to be the...new version.

If it changes something, sure. But changing something is different from omitting something.

To use the magic system as an example: how (and how much) PPE you could draw from people was changed (decreased). How much PPE you could draw from ley lines was also explicitly changed (increased).

Range/duration/damage multipliers from ley lines and nexus points was not addressed. Some spells initially in RMB were also not reprinted. These omissions do not necessarily mean that these rules/spells no longer exist. Similarly, the omission of horned/fire/ice/poison dragons does not mean you can no longer play them, just that Kev was nice enough to give us some new dragons instead of unnecessary reprints (which I like).

if something is redone, and it does not have something in it, that thing is not in the new version.

I don't agree with that, unless you can point out a place in RUE where it says "anything we left out no longer exists".

Sometimes things are left out due to space concerns, or by accident. Unless you want to cut RUE off from everything Rifts that preceded it, previous books must apply in full unless directly contradicted.

The BoM version said it had immunity, the RUE version doesn't that means that the RUE version....doesn't have the immunity, since its not in its description.

If the Book of Magic is only applicable to RMB and not the new RUEniverse then where does it end? Should all world books that preceded Book of Magic also not apply?

Omission is not the same as explicit negation or replacement. Omission alone is inadequate to disqualify data from inclusion in the RUEniverse unless you take the approach that it's a new dimension that ignores all preceding works.

Now let's check if there's even anything to argue about here...

Book of Magic p 148 states that magic weapons and rune weapons are not rendered harmless (but non-weapon magic objects are)

RUE p 221 still states the same thing, that rune and magic weapons are excepted from the 'magic objects are harmless' thing.

Having actually checked the text, I see that I have actually been misled as to the contents of Book of Magic based on preceding summaries of its contents. Eliakon, rune weapons were never said to have "immunity" to the cloud, merely that they could not be rendered harmless by it.

Since they still inflict MD, they are clearly not 'harmless', in spite of losing their spellcasting abilities, so no conflict exists.

Due to that, RUE is not in conflict with BoM at all, and I have no problem with the new notation in RUE.

[Tor]

I am wondering... why should the player make the save instead of the weapon?

Seems like a way to get better bonuses since weapons tend not to have PE attributes or OCCs that provide them.