Fold Drives in the 3G's

[keir451]

Robotech, in fact, had a few of different versions put out by the creative teams licensed to produce Robotech product.

None of which, according to Harmony Gold, were made with any involvement from Harmony Gold's creative staff or any kind of official oversight. They are, in Harmony Gold's estimation, not Robotech at all... and thus don't count any more than fan-fiction would.

I don't really mind the differences in the anime so much, except for Tommy suddenly deciding that they use "warp drives" instead of the original fold drives.

Eh... to be mercilessly accurate, because that's kinda my schtick, there was no original stance that the fold drives in Robotech worked the way they do in Macross because there wasn't any official stance on anything prior to 2001.

The ONLY time anything like a warp field is created is when Louie combines the Icarus' Shadow cloaking system with the fold drive, the rest is just cinematics.

It's all cinematics, but the depiction is consistent across the entire film and they do make it clear that they're just using the shadow field to shield the ship from the black hole's gravity so they could use the fold drive to get away. That'd support the idea that that is its normal mode of operation.

Anyway none of this has anything to do with the concept of how well fold drives operate in the Three Galaxies, so let's rein it back in shall we?

True, we have ended up on a bit of a tangent... but the definition of what a "fold drive" in the 3G is the bone of contention.

Phase World says "space fold drive", and that's implied to be the kind that uses gravitational fields and/or other, more exotic forces to fold the fabric of our three-dimensional universe.

The question that remains is, do the factors that cause interference with the 3G's version of space-fold drives affect the other, different varieties of things which are mechanically completely different but also are occasionally referred to (wrongly or otherwise) as "fold drives" of various types?

Rather than folding the fabric of our three-dimensional universe by various means, Macross's version of fold technology pushes the ship into a higher-dimension universe adjacent to our own, and compresses the fabric of that 10+ dimensional realm to get where it's going before returning to our own universe.

Our third variation we'll qualify by calling it the official version of Robotech's fold technology, which creates a bubble of normalized space and then distorts the fabric of our three-dimensional universe so it pushes that bubble of space through space towards its destination not unlike a hand squeezing the back of a wet bar of soap.



So... having identified our esteemed contenders, we must then consider what allegedly interferes with a fold drive in the Three Galaxies. Two candidate problems have been tabled from various books... one, a whole mess of gravimetric interference from more conventional stardrives, and the other being the drive system's power source being antimatter. How do these two concerns affect the smooth operation of a fold drive in the other settings where "fold" technology exists?

In the Macross universe(s), measurable gravitational distortions accompany the jump into or out of super dimension space... but gravity has never been mentioned as having a disruptive effect on the fold system's operation. Throughout the metaseries, we've seen ships successfully fold into or out the lower atmosphere of several Earth type planets, the gravity well of a fairly large star, and even in dangerously close proximity to a dimension eater detonation without incident. Ships in Macross power their fold drives with high-energy capacitors and their thermonuclear reaction power plants, which use the physics from that same higher-dimension universe to carry out a superefficient, super-potent fusion-like process.

In the Robotech universe, we do have a case of an intense gravitational field disrupting a ship's fold drive in operation... requiring the negation of the local gravitational field before the ship was again able to use its fold drive to escape. Because the official explanation for the fold drive's operation indicates that they operate on the fabric of three-dimensional space, distortions in the fabric of said space may affect their operation. Exactly how protoculture works officially... well... it's nonsensical, but it's definitely not antimatter.


So the verdict? Or at least, my verdict? The Macross fold technology would almost certainly work just fine in the Three Galaxies because it operates on the fabric of another universe. Whether the Robotech ones would work fine is a definite maybe... depending on how severe the disruptions the Three Galaxies have in the local gravity from other ships getting around.

Fair 'nough. I do appreciate your adding to this post and admit to my fair share of tangenting. I think (in retrospect) that my opinion on RT fold drives comes from the old RPG and our various discussions.
In the original Sentinels RPG the Shadow system was "simply" an extra dimensional cloaking system that concealed the "protoculutre signal" and had the added benefit of making RT VTs effectively invisible to radar.
As for Macrossfold drives in the 3G, I kinda agree w/ you on that one, in the sense that I feel they would work but might (and that's a BIG might) still, POTENTIALLY, run into issues where dimensional Rifts activity is high. I do believe that even if there were dimensional disturbances or gravitic issues along the path a Macross ship's cross-dimensional radar should detect them. Of course that ends up being the purview of the GM.

[Seto Kaiba]

In the original Sentinels RPG the Shadow system was "simply" an extra dimensional cloaking system that concealed the "protoculutre signal" and had the added benefit of making RT VTs effectively invisible to radar.

That hasn't changed, really... in canon, the "shadow device" or "shadow system" or whatever you feel like calling it is just generating a very slight dimensional shift effect that cloaks the ship or fighter mounting its generator from detection by various sensor systems. It doesn't explain how the sensors aboard that ship (or robot) still function, though... one of the many flaws in the concept.

(The original "Dark" mecha from Genesis Climber MOSPEADA were just suppressing the characteristic emissions of their HBT power plants with an engine design change... the black paint job just seems to be because someone at Mars Colony thought it looked cool, rather than for any practical reason.)

As for Macrossfold drives in the 3G, I kinda agree w/ you on that one, in the sense that I feel they would work but might (and that's a BIG might) still, POTENTIALLY, run into issues where dimensional Rifts activity is high.

I'd say it depends on how the Rifts work... the fold systems in Macross are vulnerable to dimensional faults (actual, severe discontinuities in the fabric of super dimension space). Simple instability or any type of wormhole effect probably wouldn't put a Macross fold system off its job unless it was somehow also distorting fold space... and even then, it's more an annoyance than an actual threat, since all it does is either force a course adjustment or slow the ship down. It's worth noting that Macross also has a workaround for that... zero-time fold technology.

I do believe that even if there were dimensional disturbances or gravitic issues along the path a Macross ship's cross-dimensional radar should detect them. Of course that ends up being the purview of the GM.

Absolutely they should... that's something we actually see happen in Macross Frontier. Luca uses the cross-dimension radar on his RVF-25 Mainstay to detect fold faults from realspace and even detect folding ships before they arrive in realspace.

[taalismn]

[
Absolutely they should... that's something we actually see happen in Macross Frontier. Luca uses the cross-dimension radar on his RVF-25 Mainstay to detect fold faults from realspace and even detect folding ships before they arrive in realspace.

"Guys, we got a crease in space where there shouldn't be one! I think we're about to have company!"
"What flavor of 'fold' drive is it this time? Hopefully not those damn doughnut-holers, origamists, or, perish the thought, the fruit roll-up technologists!"

[keir451]

[
Absolutely they should... that's something we actually see happen in Macross Frontier. Luca uses the cross-dimension radar on his RVF-25 Mainstay to detect fold faults from realspace and even detect folding ships before they arrive in realspace.

"Guys, we got a crease in space where there shouldn't be one! I think we're about to have company!"
"What flavor of 'fold' drive is it this time? Hopefully not those damn doughnut-holers, origamists, or, perish the thought, the fruit roll-up technologists!"