Mystic Australia?

[Malleable]

Guessing this one is never gonna be done?

I dug Australia, but really wanted to hear more about Aboriginal magic.
They have a beliefs about Dreamtime, psychics, voodoo, medicine men, spirits and totem.

I guess I could combine some ideas from Through the Looking Glass, and the african magic. But the aboriginals seem to read as more of a mystic in some ways.

Thoughts?

Mal

[flatline]

Guessing this one is never gonna be done?

I dug Australia, but really wanted to hear more about Aboriginal magic.
They have a beliefs about Dreamtime, psychics, voodoo, medicine men, spirits and totem.

I guess I could combine some ideas from Through the Looking Glass, and the african magic. But the aboriginals seem to read as more of a mystic in some ways.

Thoughts?

Mal

I recommend you roll your own (based on whatever sources you like) rather than hold your breath for the book to arrive.

--flatline

[Daniel Stoker]

It's more likely then Voidrunners, less likely then Tome Grotesque.


Daniel Stoker

[kaid]

There were some rumblings of a new navy source book that incorporated at least some of the things like the great barrier reef millenium tree type thing but no clue on if that is still in the pipeline or not.

[The Galactus Kid]

There were some rumblings of a new navy source book that incorporated at least some of the things like the great barrier reef millenium tree type thing but no clue on if that is still in the pipeline or not.

Last I heard, it was still in the hands of the freelancer writing it.

[BuzzardB]

Heh this made me double-check the results of that Quality and Power survey that was done. It would seem Mystic stuff, and Australian stuff are not too sought after.

[kaid]

Heh this made me double-check the results of that Quality and Power survey that was done. It would seem Mystic stuff, and Australian stuff are not too sought after.

The problem with most of the mystic stuff is most of it is so speciality and not normal invocations that unless you take a specific character from that book you can't use that magic. It is why federation of magic was popular where most of the other ones have not been as it actually expanded general invocation magic.

As for the original australia book that one I think really tanks in the ratings because it clearly does not stand well on its own when every other page is like look for australia 2 or 3 for actual information you care about and those two never happened which soured most on the book.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Guessing this one is never gonna be done?

I dug Australia, but really wanted to hear more about Aboriginal magic.
They have a beliefs about Dreamtime, psychics, voodoo, medicine men, spirits and totem.

I guess I could combine some ideas from Through the Looking Glass, and the african magic. But the aboriginals seem to read as more of a mystic in some ways.

Thoughts?

Mal

Short version: "No it's not going to be made"

Slightly longer version: There are some 'rumors' about what happened with Australia 2 and 3. I'd actually heard them from independent sources a few times and they seemed to agree, but were only rumors. No 'proof'. So I'm not going to repeat them in the open here. I will say it wasn't Palladium being bad in this instance, but instead Palladium doing the right thing. I actually applaud them in this. PM me if you want details.

[kaid]

Guessing this one is never gonna be done?

I dug Australia, but really wanted to hear more about Aboriginal magic.
They have a beliefs about Dreamtime, psychics, voodoo, medicine men, spirits and totem.

I guess I could combine some ideas from Through the Looking Glass, and the african magic. But the aboriginals seem to read as more of a mystic in some ways.

Thoughts?

Mal

Short version: "No it's not going to be made"

Slightly longer version: There are some 'rumors' about what happened with Australia 2 and 3. I'd actually heard them from independent sources a few times and they seemed to agree, but were only rumors. No 'proof'. So I'm not going to repeat them in the open here. I will say it wasn't Palladium being bad in this instance, but instead Palladium doing the right thing. I actually applaud them in this. PM me if you want details.

I think I probably heard the same rumblings and if what I heard was anywhere near true then palladium made the right call to cut their losses on that. But never say never just look at rifts lemuria. That was cancelled but a new writer wanted to take a swing as it and it came back from the graveyard and hit it out of the park.

[Reagren Wright]

According to Kevin the original Australian 2 manuscript had material in it that he simply would not
publish because some of the content was a bit insensitive toward a particular race of actual
living people. If some new freelancer wants to tackle the issue, sounds like a great idea to me.
Only be aware that the mythology we're using in our games is a religion and life style to actual
living people. Sort of the same issue why Kevin doesn't want to a Rifts Middle East. I only hope
the Voodoo Book of the south has been done in the same tasteful and repsectable manner.

[ScottBernard]

Yeah, its amazing how much his account differs with that of the author which has been publicly posted before. Lets just say its a LOT like what happened to Josh.

[kaid]

Sort of the same issue why Kevin doesn't want to a Rifts Middle East.

Yes, that could go sour REALLY QUICK.

Yup as much as it would be interesting unless you went all arabian knights with it there are so many landmines they could hit going with anything in the middle east it is WAY not worth it.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Sort of the same issue why Kevin doesn't want to a Rifts Middle East.

Yes, that could go sour REALLY QUICK.

Yup as much as it would be interesting unless you went all arabian knights with it there are so many landmines they could hit going with anything in the middle east it is WAY not worth it.

I've said this before, at length.

I still agree. Best to avoid it than run though that mine field with a blindfold.

[Tor]

Raiding the Mutants Down Under sourcebook for After the Bomb is one way to grab some additional info. Surprised all its content didn't get Rifts-adapted like how the China 1+2 books tried to do with Mystic China for N&SS.

[nero2137]

So, no Australia 2 or Middle East because of the religion of actual living people but we got the Spirit West book? As a Native American, I find that perplexing. Don't get me wrong, I like the book, I wasn't offended, but I know of some Elders that wouldn't have thought it was very endearing or accurate in some places.

I mean, I dig there's a line in at the beginning of the book stating it's "inspired" by but not intended as a real or accurate portrayal of my people. I'm just wondering where the differences lay in that being cool, but the other books not so much.

Anyway, not trying to stir trouble, just honestly wondering.

[Akashic Soldier]

In real life, they have been screwed royally over and over again by a variety of different non-indigenous Australians and have had to fight (with the help of Aboriginal agents) to retain their rights and their culture.

*Beats his head against a sharp rock*

No. Just no. I grew up with Aboriginals, real modern aboriginals. All my my mothers friends are aboriginals. I am so tired of this preconception foreigners have. They view Australia through their own cultural lens and don't realize how things really are here. The Aboriginals were not Native Americans, they were not a particularly wise people. They were talented survivalists but their culture was terrible, filled with everything from incest to cannibalism. People talk about atrocities, like the first settlers gave them blankets with small pox. That ISN'T what happened.

One of the things the aboriginal people have been most up in arms about is the poisoning that happened. However, no one ever tells the full story. They were not "poisoned" like with the blankets. The aboriginals had been stealing flour from the local farms during the night. Breaking into their sheds and stealing their livestock and their flour. So a bunch of the farmers got together and poisoned bags of their own flour, marked them and left them in the sheds. They didn't leave it out for people to get. However, when the aboriginals stole their flour, they took it all and so took the poisoned bags and that is why they were poisoned. When the first settlers came, the aboriginals tried to sell them women as slaves and were rejected. So instead, they pimped them to the sailors as prostitutes.

These were NOT a wizened tribe of enlightened beings with the knowledge of the dreamscape. However, Australia has been copping it ever since because unlike many other countries we don't want to be ********. So we give them better healthcare, we give them larger government subsidies, they get more money per month from the government from unemployment than the white man, they can legally travel anywhere in the country via government owned rail for $2.00 (it may have gone up, I will have to ask but it was $2.00 in 2004) when it costs anyone else between $25.00-180.00 dollars (depending on location). The Aboriginals already have more than the white man, its no longer equality and most do not even know nor respect their own heritage anymore. However, Australia can really put their foot down without looking bad because they will play the race card.

Still not convinced...
Just last month, my brother who lives in an Aboriginal Community in Warburton running a small government funded shopping center, had his shop smashed in during the night and everything (from food, ipods, EVERYTHING) stolen BY CHILDREN as their parents stood outside telling them what to do (because the kids could not be prosecuted). Stop and let that sink in for a minute and NO this isn't just ONE community. This is THEIR CULTURE by and large. The real issue for these people. But I hear you, "Akashic Soldier is just a racist", well is she a racist too? And she is being NICE.

The PROBLEM is, people (even some people in the cities who are away from it) don't see the problem. They look at the culture through rose tinted glasses and think its this great thing. However, on payday it isn't even safe to go into the street because you will be beaten and bashed, then likely dragged out of town and left to die. They administer justice (legally mind you), by driving a spear into your leg.

This is Australia's problem and if anyone who know ANYTHING about their history does a little digging, this is what they're going to find. The ugly, ugly truth of the matter.

STILL thing I am exaggerating?!

Here you go. Enjoy that. Aboriginal women are 15 times more likely to suffer from domestic violence and 10 times more likely to die from it.

Still, sound like an enlightened people or a wonderful fantasy culture?

We live in an ugly freaking world, an ugly brutal world. The thing is, the mythology of the Aboriginals is fantastical and unique. They are also an admirable people BECAUSE of this adversity and those with the strength of character and will to overcome it. However, most don't. Most blow their money on booze and drugs on payday and live a predatory or criminal lifestyle, either as criminals or victims of their friends and family. THAT is the real aboriginal culture. You put that in a book and its no wonder people have to take a step back.

You guys just don't see things for how they are. There is a reason my little brother needs to live in a cage. Yes, you read that correctly. His house is surrounded by a cage (to prevent people from getting in during the night!). There is a reason they do not send normal petrol to rural Australia (as huffing was causing death). The entire situations with the aboriginals is complete **** and I hate that they need to suffer because of it and I hate that they make others suffer because of it.

Sure, you can blame the First Settlers. You can say that all their problems started when we came and they wouldnt have so many communities in shambles without "the white man" introducing drugs or alcohol. However, that wouldn't stop the rape, incest or cannibalism that some tribes practiced. It wouldn't cure them from their illnesses or a lot them any of the modern convinces either.

So, you can either "offend" a bunch of people with the ugly truth of the matter (like I just have) or you can not write a book about the Aboriginals. Anything even half way "accurate" NEEDS to address these MASSIVE social issues.

So please, stop viewing Australia and its people and history as something its not. The aboriginals were never stolen from their families as some might claim. Anyone who even for a minute research the Stolen Generation will find that most of the "liberated" aboriginals were half-cast children who were abandoned to DIE in the desert by their tribes because they were the product of prostitution. This was their tradition! When the Catholic Church found out children were being left for dead, babies left in the sun to die, they went up and arms and started taking them. Was it wrong? Who can say. I sure as **** would rather be raised in an orphanage and educated than left to die on a god damn rock. However, we are supposed to "respect" these traditions.

Well, no sir. I do not think so. Killing babies, is not acceptable -- even if they're you're babies.

Disclaimer: Before you sling names at me and call me a racist, don't bother. I am not. I am a realist. I am also repeating almost verbatim what Nel (one of my mothers aboriginal friends who is an elder for the Clarence Valley) has said herself to me multiple times. To quote her exactly, "We shouldn't respect all of the old traditions. Some of that **** was nuts."

Warning: Racism is a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement. While I have no doubt that there are a number of social challenges facing aboriginal people in Australia, indicating that the cause of those issues is because they are Aborigines is a racist statement and a violation of our forum rules.

[eliakon]

Reads massive rant above. Well that pretty much is why there isn't a book no isn't there. Its a hot topic that causes people to rant and rave just thinking about it. Sounds like a perfectly safe subject for a game book that already looks at EVERYTHING through rose tinted glasses (we have the rose tinted Wild West, the rose tinted Nazis, rose tinted War, rose tinted Slavery, rose tinted Native Americans) so of course they are goring to rose tint this as well. And since you can't really rose tint it nicely, and be 'respectful' (however you want to define that) let alone also be accurate.....No book.

[taalismn]

Australia's history is still so recent and raw that using its religious elements as the basis of RPG material is asking for trouble.
Same reason why you'll never see a Rifts Middle East book come out (or anything beyond general geographical references).

[flatline]

Australia's history is still so recent and raw that using its religious elements as the basis of RPG material is asking for trouble.
Same reason why you'll never see a Rifts Middle East book come out (or anything beyond general geographical references).

Just wipe out all the humans in the region and then whatever religion they were won't make any difference.

--flatline

[calto40k]

Thank you, just thank you for proving me right all along

[Jefffar]

Thread locked because, really, it's been blown totally off the rails at this point.

Sorry for the delay here folks, but myself and the other mods wanted to talk about this thread, what racism was and a few other issues before we did anything.