Command Destroids

[Warshield73]

Has anyone thought about which Destroids would make the best command unit?

I have seen pictures of Tomahawks, Defenders & SPARTANs but when I was thinking about the job of a command unit I kind of thought the Phalanx.

[Phaze]

Tomahawks all the way...

Maybe a Spartan, depending on the situation.

Defenders and Phalanx are really behind the lines units and are 'commanded upon' not 'commanded from'.

Just my thought...

[glitterboy2098]

I don't want to make assumptions as to the combat abilities of the different designs, or which upgrades can go on what, but the idea of putting a C3 package on a supporting unit is tempting. Not sure I'd want to divide my pilots attention quite that much though. Which frankly seems to apply to all of them, IMO.

Not sure I like the look of the add on bit though.. I might leave it off and just drill holes for a bunch of paperclip antenna aerials. The extra combat computer stuff should be internal anyway, and extra radio aerials are how command vehicles are recognized IRL so should pass WYSIWYG. Plus should look nicer. The bit they provide will probably be used to bling out some terrain instead.

[FoxFang]

Going to take some experimenting to see what works. My first thought is keep my command assets cheap and mobile. Make them chase me around the map to try and silence my extra command points. Extend their lines, cut off the most vulnerable parts of their formation and destroy them. But we shall see.

[jedi078]

I'd go with a Tomahawk as the C3 unit, although it looks like you have to remove the searchlight. On the Defender it looks like you have to remove the radar. Not sure what you would 'lose' on the Phalanx or Spartan when attaching the C3 package.

[Warshield73]

Tomahawks all the way...

Maybe a Spartan, depending on the situation.

Defenders and Phalanx are really behind the lines units and are 'commanded upon' not 'commanded from'.

Just my thought...

To me Spartans are just a no way. They are close in brawlers that to me are unsuited as command units. A Defender's main job is anti-aircraft so it might draw a little too much fire but it already has the job of designating targets for others so command might be a natural fit.

Lots of people seem to like the Tomahawk for this but to me they are just way too tough to waste in what is essentially a support role. I am assuming that the command destroid will provide bonuses for all other destroids in the squad. Meaning you want the last mech destroyed to be the CD. This is why I was thinking Phalanx, they are suppose to stay away from the fire hit from the back. Perfect for a command unit.

I admit I am also thinking about this in terms of not just RRT but also in the regular Macros RPG. I am actually using a Command Destroid for a player in my Gen Con game.

[glitterboy2098]

is it a squad bonus or a company/force bonus? IIRC they are using some sort of command points mechanic that lets you do more in a turn with a unit than is normal if you spend command points on it.. a command destroid might be like the Squad leader in Spacehulk, giving you extra points to spend each turn to reflect better overall command and control. if so, you'd get the bonus as long as the mecha in the table and functional.. no matter where it is.

[Phaze]

From what I have played and previewed, it is closer to the Space Hulk reference.

Commanders give you points into a pool. You can use those points to effect the game in various ways...Taking extra shots, running for a further distance, extra dodge attempts, etc...

They are in a pool, so you could hide your leaders in the corners. But beyond the leaders on the UEDF side, every Mecha can give command points to reflect the fact that the UEDF are more independent than the regimented Zents. Only the Glaugs (or similar) have command points, as the common battle pod and infantry are just there to follow orders.

They are used by who ever needs them without regard to distance from the leader or LOS. It is a pool used by the entire force on the board.

There are other bonuses that can be given that are restricted by distance, LOS, and numerical superiority, but those are seperate from command points.

[Warshield73]

Guess I will have to wait and see what they use at Gen Con and how the Command Destroids work. I hope that the rules for the VF-1S and Glaug are the same. Just for simplicity.

[Phaze]

No, they are not the same... the Glaug can get 5 Command points (If I remember right), but the battle pods provide none.

The VF-1S (or J if deemed a leader) has +2 command points plus 1 for every Mecha (including the leader) in the squad for a total of 6 command points.

So, a Zent attack squad has 5 command points (1 Glaug and 9 Battle pods), while a Veritech squad (with optional leader) has 6. A stock Veritech squad would have 4.

All command points from all the units on one side get combined into a pool to be used on any unit in that force. Command points can be spent to provide extra dodge attempts, extra movement, or extra weapon attacks.

So, the situation that can often arise is the decision to spend your points on a unit that has good LOS to a priority target to get the extra shots in an attempt to destroy that target, or hold the points for the next unit that is going to get pounded by enemy fire in an attempt to keep it alive and still fighting.

A unit may fire one weapon system per turn for free and each weapon system can only fire once per turn, but the Mecha have multible weapon systems. To fire additional weapons, you must use command points.

At least thats a brief overview....

[Phaze]

Yes, and no.

Taking out the Glaug would cripple the use of the Zent Command points, but pods can be deadly in close quarters and cover, without command points.

Thats why the Zents also have the Attrition squad of 12 battle pods... zero command points.

And taking out a Glaug surrounded by pods that have an ability (life is cheap, I think) to shield the Glaug, isn't always an easy thing to do...for that matter, taking out a Glaug itself isn't easy.

[Phaze]

Correction.... 'Life is cheap' is not the rule. Close formation is the rule that allows a unit to spread damage out between two units in close formation, and can be used to spread out damage.

depending on the terrain and movement rules not as hard as you think I pointed out to mike a few fallacies in the movement phases that can occur with veritech fighters flying below the flight canopy thru buildings, especially with boost, they can go in hit and be out of range and LoS all in one turn before the pods even react. all the while doing impossible moves thru buildings and such.

Yes Afterburner will allow the fighters to escape 12". But, any surviving pods would be glad to leap 10" into the rear of the VF squad as they escape. They may be able to move out of LOS and range, but only until the pods get to move and fire. They can move quite a distance. It may end up a wash.

Just saying the game is not all about killing the Glaugs, I've seen a zent battle pod group stomp a tomahawk squad into the mud, without the help of command points...

[Phaze]

imagine this scenario, a veritech flying thru buildings turning on a dime, launch missile at shooting range distance, then go afterburner out of there thru the buildings turning around corners like turning on a dime and way out of range even after the pods move, and the VT's can do this all day long.

Uhhh... No. They can do it 3 times...as thier ammo holds out.

I would like to point out that your scenerio is very specific.

1. Clear LOS at range of 24" on the glaug from the angle of attack. (like I'm going to set my glaug in the middle of a four lane highway for you to shot at a range of 24"...with missles...not happening).
2. launching missles from the front arch.
3. turning up to 90 degrees and flying off in a SINGLE STRAIGHT direction (not dodgeing buildings, but if you had a street corner you could turn and fly down) for a required 12" and if you had the forsight, not end up off the board, or in the range or LOS of another enemy unit.

The range would be (remembering trig....(24")sqrd + (12")sqrd = (range)sqrd ) about 27 inches. Now Pods move with leap (landing per se on a building for better LOS) for 10". Range is now 17" in your rear arc and the range for the Pods weapons... yea...more than that.

Ok for a recap.
If you can get LOS on the Glaug after your initial movement at a range of 24"
If you can hit with your missles,
If your missles don't get shot down, blocked, or damage 'roll with'ed
If you can find cover, after your manditory 12" straight movement and escape the retribution of up to 9 battle pods, or fall into the crosshairs of another unit,

Then yes it is a good move. Go for it. Your opponent deserves it, and is desperately asking for it. Now if he could just stay still so you could rinse and repeat 2 more times. Good luck with that.

Not a tactic I will be employing, unless specifically warrented.

[Phaze]

I would agree that terrain is important.

In a dense Urban environment...I lay odds on the zents. The pods are beasts in Hand to Hand and short range.

In a clear area, the UEDF rule with the missles and cannons of the Tomahawks.

Last year at GENCON, the Tomahawks lay waste to the city (knocked down every building in range) to clear the terrain to get clear shots on the incoming pods...UEDF win. In another game, the Pods used terrain to close the gap and tied up enemy units in hand to hand and stomped them into submission. Zent Win.

Hence the term 'Tactics'.

"There are roads which must not be followed, armies which must be not attacked, towns which must not be besieged", Sun tzu

Edit... We are just dealing with the core units (pods, VTs, Tomahawks and Glaugs). Throw the Monster, arty pods, FPA, MPA, Gnerls, fighters, and other assorted units in to the fray...and you got a right decent battle on your hands, that could go either way.

[Forar]

The fact that "get close, tie them up in hand to hand, stomp them into submission" is even 'a thing' is going to drive a lot of people crazy.

The Zentraedi's most lethal attack: The Battlepod Kick-Line.

[Mike1975]

So for you guys to have info to argue with, commanders have 3 PIL and 3 GUN and they get a Leadership of 2. Standard Destroids have a PIL and GUN of 2.

If your concern is primarily the command points use a Defender. They are most likely to stay back and attack from a distance and that will increase their accuracy.

Phalanx, they only need to target an area, not the unit itself in the rules since their missiles have the Blast trait. The +1 to the GUN in really wasted in them but the +1 PIL helps them dodge.

The Spartan takes more damage and has an Anti-Missile turret and is excellent in Melee, depending upon your playing style they might be ideal since they can get in close and have a decent chance of surviving long enough to do some damage.

The Tomahawk is my preferred option, his only weakness is in HTH when compared to the Spartan. The increase PIL and GUN will both be used. The main cannons have overwhelming so they cannot be rolled against if they get a hit, and they do not have to get in close since their guns outrange Zentraedi units.

[Phaze]

So for you guys to have info to argue with, commanders have 3 PIL and 3 GUN and they get a Leadership of 2. Standard Destroids have a PIL and GUN of 2.

If your concern is primarily the command points use a Defender. They are most likely to stay back and attack from a distance and that will increase their accuracy.

Phalanx, they only need to target an area, not the unit itself in the rules since their missiles have the Blast trait. The +1 to the GUN in really wasted in them but the +1 PIL helps them dodge.

The Spartan takes more damage and has an Anti-Missile turret and is excellent in Melee, depending upon your playing style they might be ideal since they can get in close and have a decent chance of surviving long enough to do some damage.

The Tomahawk is my preferred option, his only weakness is in HTH when compared to the Spartan. The increase PIL and GUN will both be used. The main cannons have overwhelming so they cannot be rolled against if they get a hit, and they do not have to get in close since their guns outrange Zentraedi units.

Good breakdown... I concur.

[Warshield73]

I agree that the Spartan and Phalanx would probably be a waste of the bonuses, given the stats presented, so I can see why the Tomahawk would be the preferred destroid for command.

Just wondering though, how would those bonuses work on a Defender and is the Monster an option?

[Mike1975]

One detail, the Spartan also has a Defense of 6 making it a wee bit harder to hit and kill.

[Mike1975]

The Monster says it is a special option card, there are no specifics on if you could have a Command Monster since the command upgrade is also a special option card. I think the command upgrade should be just that, an upgrade and likely not use up a support card. Will check though.

[Mike1975]

I've given this a lot of thought. Kicklines have the advantage of limiting the firepower of the Destroid. A Tomahawk would normally fire it's gun clusters or arms doing 88 points and is reduced to kicking for 4. You can't fire weapons in Melee....yet. But the pods do less damage too by being reduced to kicking at 3 damage per kick vs 4 with their guns. The Pods main guns also have accurate and they have the Focused Fire trait. Pods can fire their main guns with a +1 Strike and if they do not move can fire their secondaries normally doing a potential 6 points. Kicklines Vs. Getting close and firing is a tactical decision. The added advantage is that friendly Destroids cannot fire into a melee. Really a toss up and depends upon the situation on what it best IMHO.