Helmut Mayer is human right ?

[ZINO]

world book 31 NGR BK 2
April 14, 107 P.A., the President of the NGR, Helmut Mayer, is killed by Gargoyle
Helmut Mayer is human right no stat on him right or i missed this.

[cornholioprime]

world book 31 NGR BK 2
April 14, 107 P.A., the President of the NGR, Helmut Mayer, is killed by Gargoyle
Helmut Mayer is human right no stat on him right or i missed this.

There is only one non-human that we know of in the NGR, and that's the Rahu-Man whose name I can't remember.

[ZINO]

world book 31 NGR BK 2
April 14, 107 P.A., the President of the NGR, Helmut Mayer, is killed by Gargoyle
Helmut Mayer is human right no stat on him right or i missed this.

There is only one non-human that we know of in the NGR, and that's the Rahu-Man whose name I can't remember.

thats General Rasheen's

[Tor]

I'm interested in the FQ and CS responses to Rasheen's being allowed to hold authority, much less EXIST, on NGR soil, with intercontinental relations.

[eliakon]

I'm interested in the FQ and CS responses to Rasheen's being allowed to hold authority, much less EXIST, on NGR soil, with intercontinental relations.

Considering that the NGR allows mages to exist, hold citizenship, and likely has them working for their military.....
Yah, the CS/NGR alliance seems to be one of convenience against a greater foe and not one of fellow ideological purists.

[ZINO]

I'm interested in the FQ and CS responses to Rasheen's being allowed to hold authority, much less EXIST, on NGR soil, with intercontinental relations.

good question in my campaign there at shaky at best for now

[cornholioprime]

I'm interested in the FQ and CS responses to Rasheen's being allowed to hold authority, much less EXIST, on NGR soil, with intercontinental relations.

If memory serves, this is covered in more depth in Triax 2; the CS knows about the NGR and how it strays from the light, but they patiently tolerate the situation.

The CS has its eyes on long-term goals, and one of those goals is the advanced technologies of Triax including force-field technology (which Triax wisely but quietly refuses to share with the CS, at least at the moment).

[Tor]

One hopes CS managed to acquire lots of Naruni tech to try and reverse-engineer prior to chasing them off NA.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

If you think the CS would have a problem FQ would have ten times the problem with the NGR.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

world book 31 NGR BK 2
April 14, 107 P.A., the President of the NGR, Helmut Mayer, is killed by Gargoyle
Helmut Mayer is human right no stat on him right or i missed this.

that's how i saw it when i wrote it. His stats are negligible since he was a career politician with no special powers.
but he can be anything you want him to be.

[ZINO]

OK TY MAN ?:)

[glitterboy2098]

I'm interested in the FQ and CS responses to Rasheen's being allowed to hold authority, much less EXIST, on NGR soil, with intercontinental relations.

If memory serves, this is covered in more depth in Triax 2; the CS knows about the NGR and how it strays from the light, but they patiently tolerate the situation.

The CS has its eyes on long-term goals, and one of those goals is the advanced technologies of Triax including force-field technology (which Triax wisely but quietly refuses to share with the CS, at least at the moment).

what i find interesting is no one has followed up the implications of the erin tarn story in WB5.. where the NGR officer she meets talks about Erin Tarn as a great folk hero within the CS, and doesn't seem to find it odd that a Cs officer (which is what ms. Tarn was posing as) would be conducting humanitarian missions to Dbee villages on the borders of the NGR..

this implies to me that either the CS or the NGR has been carefully misrepresenting the nature of the CS to the average NGR citizen.

[Tor]

What a loser, how do you even manage getting killed by a Gargoyle?

Must've been that Gargoyle Mage in the comic who dual-classes as a wizard, enabling him to throw lightning bolts.

There was originally one of those in PRPG, am betting it's him.

Also possible that Modeus merged a Gargoyle with an Air Jinn and it is secretly manipulating the Europe Gargoyles... won't Charun be surprised.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

What a loser, how do you even manage getting killed by a Gargoyle?

that's a good question. How do you sneak gargoyles inside the NGR for a presidential assassination?

[glitterboy2098]

What a loser, how do you even manage getting killed by a Gargoyle?

Must've been that Gargoyle Mage in the comic who dual-classes as a wizard, enabling him to throw lightning bolts.

i hope this is a joke, because its not like this guy would have been some combat soldier. if he had a character sheet, it would have been something like "12th level Politician."

that's a good question. How do you sneak gargoyles inside the NGR for a presidential assassination?

shapechange spells (remember the NGR does not have dogboys or psistalkers, so their antimagic sensing is much more limited than the CS's), teleport, human summoner/shifter in a safehouse nearby, stealthy suicide mission team walking overland..

or maybe he was just on tour near a border and got caught offguard.

[ZINO]

What a loser, how do you even manage getting killed by a Gargoyle?

Must've been that Gargoyle Mage in the comic who dual-classes as a wizard, enabling him to throw lightning bolts.

i hope this is a joke, because its not like this guy would have been some combat soldier. if he had a character sheet, it would have been something like "12th level Politician."

that's a good question. How do you sneak gargoyles inside the NGR for a presidential assassination?

shapechange spells (remember the NGR does not have dogboys or psistalkers, so their antimagic sensing is much more limited than the CS's), teleport, human summoner/shifter in a safehouse nearby, stealthy suicide mission team walking overland..

or maybe he was just on tour near a border and got caught offguard.

BEST EXPLANATION SO FAR !!!ops lost myself here

[eliakon]

What a loser, how do you even manage getting killed by a Gargoyle?

Must've been that Gargoyle Mage in the comic who dual-classes as a wizard, enabling him to throw lightning bolts.

i hope this is a joke, because its not like this guy would have been some combat soldier. if he had a character sheet, it would have been something like "12th level Politician."

that's a good question. How do you sneak gargoyles inside the NGR for a presidential assassination?

shapechange spells (remember the NGR does not have dogboys or psistalkers, so their antimagic sensing is much more limited than the CS's), teleport, human summoner/shifter in a safehouse nearby, stealthy suicide mission team walking overland..

or maybe he was just on tour near a border and got caught offguard.

BEST EXPLANATION SO FAR !!!ops lost myself here

Wasn't it that he was at an event at a border city when a major gargoyle army attacked? I don't have my book handy but I recall it was thousands of gargoyles against the locals and his bodyguards.

[RoadWarriorFWaNK]

Wasn't it that he was at an event at a border city when a major gargoyle army attacked? I don't have my book handy but I recall it was thousands of gargoyles against the locals and his bodyguards.

this sounds about right

shapechange spells (remember the NGR does not have dogboys or psistalkers, so their antimagic sensing is much more limited than the CS's), teleport, human summoner/shifter in a safehouse nearby, stealthy suicide mission team walking overland..

or maybe he was just on tour near a border and got caught offguard.

this too

[The Galactus Kid]

Wasn't it that he was at an event at a border city when a major gargoyle army attacked? I don't have my book handy but I recall it was thousands of gargoyles against the locals and his bodyguards.

this sounds about right

It was a small strike force of 23 gargoyles. Only 3 made it to the event site and one was killed istantly by a combat cyborg. A little more support and it may have been avoided, but the gargoyles were there with a purpose. That is how we discussed the assassination and you did an awesome job getting that feel on paper for the book.

shapechange spells (remember the NGR does not have dogboys or psistalkers, so their antimagic sensing is much more limited than the CS's), teleport, human summoner/shifter in a safehouse nearby, stealthy suicide mission team walking overland..

or maybe he was just on tour near a border and got caught offguard.

this too

Agreed.

[Tor]

one was killed istantly by a combat cyborg

Had to be a mini-missile volley, not sure borgs can do 100 MD in a hit, unless it was a crit or something to double it. Prob something out there could manage 50.

[dragonfett]

one was killed istantly by a combat cyborg

Had to be a mini-missile volley, not sure borgs can do 100 MD in a hit, unless it was a crit or something to double it. Prob something out there could manage 50.

Who said it was "on board" weapons and not something heavier that it had on it?

[Tor]

Who said it was "on board" weapons and not something heavier that it had on it?

Nothing, still fun to speculate what he had access to though. Besides missiles, other than him happening to have an upper-tier greatest rune weapon, it's hard to think of how someone could do 100 MD in an action. Borgs can carry heaven stuff, did he pull an Anhur and casual-wield a Boomgun maybe? Would like some rules on how pylon-less guys take the rebound from that...

Storyline, mechinics are irrelevant in that case.

Source? One should always assume megaversal rules support storylines, same with pics, same setting.

For example in Rifts Mercs, that missile vehicle clearly had an illusion spell placed on it to make the numbers off.

[glitterboy2098]

are we assuming it's a normal sized borg, and not one of their "borg brain in a giant robot body" soldiers mentioned in WB5?

[Tor]

I guess if anyone would have a BorgDevastator bodyguard it'd be the president.

But heck, it's main gun only does 80 max unless you roll crit, so I still think it had to be missiles.

Would I be right to assume that NGR had nought bought Glitter-Tech by this time?

[Tinker Dragoon]

one was killed istantly by a combat cyborg

Had to be a mini-missile volley, not sure borgs can do 100 MD in a hit, unless it was a crit or something to double it. Prob something out there could manage 50.

The book says the gargoyle was killed by "gunfire and mini-missiles from the cyborg defenders inside the vehicle," which implies multiple attacks from multiple bodyguards.

[Tor]

Kevin himself.

Did Kevin say that images don't matter at all, or just that text trumps images when conflicts arise (like missile battery count)?

one was killed istantly by a combat cyborg

Had to be a mini-missile volley, not sure borgs can do 100 MD in a hit, unless it was a crit or something to double it. Prob something out there could manage 50.

The book says the gargoyle was killed by "gunfire and mini-missiles from the cyborg defenders inside the vehicle," which implies multiple attacks from multiple bodyguards.

Ah so there was more than one...

[Killer Cyborg]

One hopes CS managed to acquire lots of Naruni tech to try and reverse-engineer prior to chasing them off NA.

Well, they've had access to Triax forcefield technology for 8 years or so, in the form of the Ultimax, and they still haven't managed to copy that.
So I assume that Naruni tech is even more beyond their understanding.

[Tor]

I asked you for a source for "Storyline, mechinics are irrelevant in that case." and you responded "Kevin himself". I asked for the context, of what Kevin actually said, and was not provided it.

You asked for source about story fluff not needing to mesh with game mechinics, you have been given that source.

Saying a name isn't a source, proper sourcing is saying where/when/how someone said something you're alleging supports a view.

I want to know where Kev said mechanics are irrelevant to storyline.

I believe art is part of the storyline, so it is a related line of discussion. Kevin giving artistic freedom and saying text trumps art doesn't make art irrelevant, just not the primary source.

[ZINO]

ok i hope we get back in topic with loving open arms

[ShadowLogan]

One hopes CS managed to acquire lots of Naruni tech to try and reverse-engineer prior to chasing them off NA.

Well, they've had access to Triax forcefield technology for 8 years or so, in the form of the Ultimax, and they still haven't managed to copy that.
So I assume that Naruni tech is even more beyond their understanding.

The republic of japan would have a good shot at it and maybe traix but IMO it's only because they have made force fields.

This of course assumes that Naruni doesn't take steps to prevent reverse engineering of their equipment. They have basically a monopoly on Plasma Cartridges IIRC.

[eliakon]

One hopes CS managed to acquire lots of Naruni tech to try and reverse-engineer prior to chasing them off NA.

Well, they've had access to Triax forcefield technology for 8 years or so, in the form of the Ultimax, and they still haven't managed to copy that.
So I assume that Naruni tech is even more beyond their understanding.

The republic of japan would have a good shot at it and maybe traix but IMO it's only because they have made force fields.

This of course assumes that Naruni doesn't take steps to prevent reverse engineering of their equipment. They have basically a monopoly on Plasma Cartridges IIRC.

True but wills has figured it out. They have plasma cartridge weapons in new west.

Wilks has a laser cartridge. Its an energy cartridge yes....but its much less powerful, shorter ranged, and more expensive.

[Tor]

Hyperboil and irreverent.

Hyperbole and irrelevant?

You have been given source

You gave me a name, when people ask for a source they usually would like information on how to verify the authenticity of your interpretation. IE where Kev said something so I can read the raw text and assess it for myself.

Because you don't wish to acknowledge it has no bearing on those facts. Kevin has stated at conventions from the open house to anime north.

Cool, point me out a video or a transcript, otherwise I'm not going to rely on paraphrasing of a fading memory.

He has said so on the forums

Would like to read the post, if possible.

it has been confirmed by freelance writers.

Secondary source data, would be interested in reading it but the possibility exists that they might broken-telephone what Kev said to them the same way people at a convention might broken-telephone statements he made there.

Your ability to agree does not change these facts.

Not sure what you mean here.

Facts are not enough, you need to be able to communicate facts' factualness to others to convince them.

You don't like source and examples given too bad

No actual source was given, just a vague claim that Kevin said something and I'm to take your word that your paraphrasing correctly represents what he said.

do your own research and find out if you don't think its truth.

The best I can think of doing based on this limited information is search posts made by Kevin on the boards and use related keywords Will get back to you if I find something.

For example I found 2 results of him saying "canon", one being "many factions and individuals may think they have the definitive or correct, or best, “interpretation,” at the end of the day it is still YOUR interpretation. Not fact, not canon, but interpretation, and that’s okay."

[dragonfett]

I wonder where are my hip-waders at? It's starting to get deep in here...

[Nightmask]

One hopes CS managed to acquire lots of Naruni tech to try and reverse-engineer prior to chasing them off NA.

Well, they've had access to Triax forcefield technology for 8 years or so, in the form of the Ultimax, and they still haven't managed to copy that.
So I assume that Naruni tech is even more beyond their understanding.

The republic of japan would have a good shot at it and maybe traix but IMO it's only because they have made force fields.

This of course assumes that Naruni doesn't take steps to prevent reverse engineering of their equipment. They have basically a monopoly on Plasma Cartridges IIRC.

The CCW has been secretly reverse-engineering and setting up factories to put out their own Naruni gear for some time now, and given the size of the megaverse and just how much volume of stuff they sell they simply aren't going to successfully prevent people from reverse-engineering their tech. At least not from the really determined.

[dragonfett]

One hopes CS managed to acquire lots of Naruni tech to try and reverse-engineer prior to chasing them off NA.

Well, they've had access to Triax forcefield technology for 8 years or so, in the form of the Ultimax, and they still haven't managed to copy that.
So I assume that Naruni tech is even more beyond their understanding.

The republic of japan would have a good shot at it and maybe traix but IMO it's only because they have made force fields.

This of course assumes that Naruni doesn't take steps to prevent reverse engineering of their equipment. They have basically a monopoly on Plasma Cartridges IIRC.

The CCW has been secretly reverse-engineering and setting up factories to put out their own Naruni gear for some time now, and given the size of the megaverse and just how much volume of stuff they sell they simply aren't going to successfully prevent people from reverse-engineering their tech. At least not from the really determined.

The CCW also has access to resources and money that the CS could never even imagine...

[Tor]

Hm, does sound like a save bet that we don't have to worry about CS duplication of Naruni until after CCW does it.

[NMI]

Play nice people. 2 specific people in this thread either need to agree to disagree or simply FOE each other.

[Tor]

If this is referring to me and Nightmask, I refuse to foe anyone, and agreeing to disagree is weird, agreements are made to coalesce mutual consent but disagreeing doesn't require another person's consent so having someone consent to my disagreement or my consenting to theirs is odd. Sounds more like "let's stop sharing our ideas".

This is a slight enough tiff. Night remembers Kevin saying something, I want to know the exact words, neither of us wants to go find it.

[Nightmask]

The republic of japan would have a good shot at it and maybe traix but IMO it's only because they have made force fields.

This of course assumes that Naruni doesn't take steps to prevent reverse engineering of their equipment. They have basically a monopoly on Plasma Cartridges IIRC.

The CCW has been secretly reverse-engineering and setting up factories to put out their own Naruni gear for some time now, and given the size of the megaverse and just how much volume of stuff they sell they simply aren't going to successfully prevent people from reverse-engineering their tech. At least not from the really determined.

The CCW also has access to resources and money that the CS could never even imagine...

Which isn't really relevant to whether or not the CS would attempt to reverse-engineer any Naruni technology they acquired (assuming that they'd want to do so with alien technology). They didn't bother with maintaining such a program with regards to Earth-born Glitter Boy technology, and at least one book mentions that the CS prefers to rely on things it's developed.

[Tor]

Odds are someone in the CS would want to give it a try, how much attention it gets through official efforts would be another story.

Assuming they have an Ulti-Max they'd probably at least be comparing notes between it's force field and Naruni's.

[dragonfett]

The republic of japan would have a good shot at it and maybe traix but IMO it's only because they have made force fields.

This of course assumes that Naruni doesn't take steps to prevent reverse engineering of their equipment. They have basically a monopoly on Plasma Cartridges IIRC.

The CCW has been secretly reverse-engineering and setting up factories to put out their own Naruni gear for some time now, and given the size of the megaverse and just how much volume of stuff they sell they simply aren't going to successfully prevent people from reverse-engineering their tech. At least not from the really determined.

The CCW also has access to resources and money that the CS could never even imagine...

Which isn't really relevant to whether or not the CS would attempt to reverse-engineer any Naruni technology they acquired (assuming that they'd want to do so with alien technology). They didn't bother with maintaining such a program with regards to Earth-born Glitter Boy technology, and at least one book mentions that the CS prefers to rely on things it's developed.

I never said that the CS couldn't at least try.

That being said, I do definitely see the CS trying to reverse engineer Naruni tech, as well as Glitter Boy tech too. It's just that they have not had not that much time to work on it (relatively speaking), not to mention that they don't have access to the factories needed to produce the parts (because they would also contain the schematics as well).

I say that due to the fact that they have a whole division of people studying ley lines and rifts and magic (not practicing it, just studying the ambient magic of the world. At least that is how I describe it). And they are canon.

[Nightmask]

This of course assumes that Naruni doesn't take steps to prevent reverse engineering of their equipment. They have basically a monopoly on Plasma Cartridges IIRC.

The CCW has been secretly reverse-engineering and setting up factories to put out their own Naruni gear for some time now, and given the size of the megaverse and just how much volume of stuff they sell they simply aren't going to successfully prevent people from reverse-engineering their tech. At least not from the really determined.

The CCW also has access to resources and money that the CS could never even imagine...

Which isn't really relevant to whether or not the CS would attempt to reverse-engineer any Naruni technology they acquired (assuming that they'd want to do so with alien technology). They didn't bother with maintaining such a program with regards to Earth-born Glitter Boy technology, and at least one book mentions that the CS prefers to rely on things it's developed.

I never said that the CS couldn't at least try.

That being said, I do definitely see the CS trying to reverse engineer Naruni tech, as well as Glitter Boy tech too. It's just that they have not had not that much time to work on it (relatively speaking), not to mention that they don't have access to the factories needed to produce the parts (because they would also contain the schematics as well).

I say that due to the fact that they have a whole division of people studying ley lines and rifts and magic (not practicing it, just studying the ambient magic of the world. At least that is how I describe it). And they are canon.

From what I remember the CS was said to have abandoned trying to Reverse-Engineer Glitter Boy technology (although that may have been changed, if only due to advancing the timeline maybe newer books have them trying again). I agree that they couldn't have had much time to acquire and try to reverse-engineer Naruni technology so really unlikely they could have made any headway yet (even Triax would need decades and a good number of samples to reverse-engineer and make use of just the HI Laser technology).

[Tor]

CS may officially abandon it by de-funding and focusing their money on other R*D but I'm sure there's still SOME people in there working on it, even if it were using their own funding.