Better GB Killer!

[eliakon]

The GAW-155 Electromagnetic Howitzer (Mercenary Ops pg. 126) Has a range of 20 miles, and several nice shells doing between 1d4x10 to 2d4x10 damage to areas of between 15' and 50'

[Zer0 Kay]

Well if were going for range why don't we just use the stats for the naval railgun? 32 Megajoules launches a 23 lbs guided shell 110 miles

1Mj = 1 ton moving at 100 mph

So that should mean that a 23 lbs object should be traveling at... Holy crap my math has to be wrong.
So the shell is 86.95 times smaller than a ton right we'll call this 's'
And 32 Mj should send a ton at 3200 mph right or send 32 tons at 100 mph
So shouldn't s x the speed 1Mj sends a ton x the number of Mj = the speed the round should be traveling at in mph and divide that by 750 for a rough mach number at sea level?

So Mach 370! That can't be right can it? What real world science am I missing or is that why it goes 110 miles and blows things up like a battleship shell but with kinetic force alone? If that is so, that stupid turtle in SA2 should skip the lame boomguns and go with a couple naval railguns.

[guardiandashi]

Well if were going for range why don't we just use the stats for the naval railgun? 32 Megajoules launches a 23 lbs guided shell 110 miles

1Mj = 1 ton moving at 100 mph

So that should mean that a 23 lbs object should be traveling at... Holy crap my math has to be wrong.
So the shell is 86.95 times smaller than a ton right we'll call this 's'
And 32 Mj should send a ton at 3200 mph right or send 32 tons at 100 mph
So shouldn't s x the speed 1Mj sends a ton x the number of Mj = the speed the round should be traveling at in mph and divide that by 750 for a rough mach number at sea level?

So Mach 370! That can't be right can it? What real world science am I missing or is that why it goes 110 miles and blows things up like a battleship shell but with kinetic force alone? If that is so, that stupid turtle in SA2 should skip the lame boomguns and go with a couple naval railguns.

read http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comm ... ajoule_as/

its a coincidence K = ½mv2 is the correct formula so an increase (or decrease of m) it changes at a 2x rate, whereas changes of v are much more significant)

[Slight001]

Seriously if the CS found the GB do you think they wouldn't produce it?

IIRC, Chi-Town used to have a few GBs however they were unable to properly maintain/repair them. I don't recall the source of this info nor do I recall what happened to the Chi-Town GBs. For all I know they are in a secret vault with full honors and history of each unit and its pilots.

[Shark_Force]

The GAW-155 Electromagnetic Howitzer (Mercenary Ops pg. 126) Has a range of 20 miles, and several nice shells doing between 1d4x10 to 2d4x10 damage to areas of between 15' and 50'

and how many of those can you buy with 25 million credits?

[Zer0 Kay]

Seriously if the CS found the GB do you think they wouldn't produce it?

IIRC, Chi-Town used to have a few GBs however they were unable to properly maintain/repair them. I don't recall the source of this info nor do I recall what happened to the Chi-Town GBs. For all I know they are in a secret vault with full honors and history of each unit and its pilots.

That'd be cool. I meant if they found manufacturing systems. It's not like any of their NEMA equipment they reverse engineered in the beginning, though I'm pretty sure by 109PA they've figured out how to do that.

[wyrmraker]

Seriously if the CS found the GB do you think they wouldn't produce it?

IIRC, Chi-Town used to have a few GBs however they were unable to properly maintain/repair them. I don't recall the source of this info nor do I recall what happened to the Chi-Town GBs. For all I know they are in a secret vault with full honors and history of each unit and its pilots.

That'd be cool. I meant if they found manufacturing systems. It's not like any of their NEMA equipment they reverse engineered in the beginning, though I'm pretty sure by 109PA they've figured out how to do that.

Going by the book, the Proseks have always been pretty cheesed that Quebec not only have the technology for the chromium armor, but refuse to share. If the CS at large had the technology to build the Glitter Boys, they would have swiftly taken up the legendry of the 'Neemans', claiming to be the 'last true legacy' of the Golden Age. In a way they are, but using the iconic Glitter Boy would have been a no-brainer.

As for reverse engineering the chromium armor, I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the books it's canon that it's impossible to do without the actual secrets themselves. Or at least it's been heavily implied throughout the books.

[Nightmask]

Seriously if the CS found the GB do you think they wouldn't produce it?

IIRC, Chi-Town used to have a few GBs however they were unable to properly maintain/repair them. I don't recall the source of this info nor do I recall what happened to the Chi-Town GBs. For all I know they are in a secret vault with full honors and history of each unit and its pilots.

That'd be cool. I meant if they found manufacturing systems. It's not like any of their NEMA equipment they reverse engineered in the beginning, though I'm pretty sure by 109PA they've figured out how to do that.

Going by the book, the Proseks have always been pretty cheesed that Quebec not only have the technology for the chromium armor, but refuse to share. If the CS at large had the technology to build the Glitter Boys, they would have swiftly taken up the legendry of the 'Neemans', claiming to be the 'last true legacy' of the Golden Age. In a way they are, but using the iconic Glitter Boy would have been a no-brainer.

As for reverse engineering the chromium armor, I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the books it's canon that it's impossible to do without the actual secrets themselves. Or at least it's been heavily implied throughout the books.

Well the idea of reverse-engineering is working out what the secrets are for constructing something and at least one organization has done so in Phase World as it's canon that someone manufactures and sells them in Phase World. People on Earth just don't generally try for various reasons.

[wyrmraker]

Seriously if the CS found the GB do you think they wouldn't produce it?

IIRC, Chi-Town used to have a few GBs however they were unable to properly maintain/repair them. I don't recall the source of this info nor do I recall what happened to the Chi-Town GBs. For all I know they are in a secret vault with full honors and history of each unit and its pilots.

That'd be cool. I meant if they found manufacturing systems. It's not like any of their NEMA equipment they reverse engineered in the beginning, though I'm pretty sure by 109PA they've figured out how to do that.

Going by the book, the Proseks have always been pretty cheesed that Quebec not only have the technology for the chromium armor, but refuse to share. If the CS at large had the technology to build the Glitter Boys, they would have swiftly taken up the legendry of the 'Neemans', claiming to be the 'last true legacy' of the Golden Age. In a way they are, but using the iconic Glitter Boy would have been a no-brainer.

As for reverse engineering the chromium armor, I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the books it's canon that it's impossible to do without the actual secrets themselves. Or at least it's been heavily implied throughout the books.

Well the idea of reverse-engineering is working out what the secrets are for constructing something and at least one organization has done so in Phase World as it's canon that someone manufactures and sells them in Phase World. People on Earth just don't generally try for various reasons.

I get that for the Phase World setting. And I'm not saying that Naruni Enterprises probably hasn't already done it. But on Rifts Earth, even Triax had to make a deal with Free Quebec to get the secrets to making the chromium armor. And since Triax lost very little of their technical data during the Time of Rifts, one would think that Triax, of anywhere on Earth, would be able to reverse-engineer that particular secret.

[Alrik Vas]

I can't think of the setting reason, but I think the mechanics are for FQ getting to be special.

[Nightmask]

That'd be cool. I meant if they found manufacturing systems. It's not like any of their NEMA equipment they reverse engineered in the beginning, though I'm pretty sure by 109PA they've figured out how to do that.

Going by the book, the Proseks have always been pretty cheesed that Quebec not only have the technology for the chromium armor, but refuse to share. If the CS at large had the technology to build the Glitter Boys, they would have swiftly taken up the legendry of the 'Neemans', claiming to be the 'last true legacy' of the Golden Age. In a way they are, but using the iconic Glitter Boy would have been a no-brainer.

As for reverse engineering the chromium armor, I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the books it's canon that it's impossible to do without the actual secrets themselves. Or at least it's been heavily implied throughout the books.

Well the idea of reverse-engineering is working out what the secrets are for constructing something and at least one organization has done so in Phase World as it's canon that someone manufactures and sells them in Phase World. People on Earth just don't generally try for various reasons.

I get that for the Phase World setting. And I'm not saying that Naruni Enterprises probably hasn't already done it. But on Rifts Earth, even Triax had to make a deal with Free Quebec to get the secrets to making the chromium armor. And since Triax lost very little of their technical data during the Time of Rifts, one would think that Triax, of anywhere on Earth, would be able to reverse-engineer that particular secret.

Never got the impression that Triax got the secrets for Glitter Boy production from Free Quebec, more that they got complete technical data from them on the original design that they added to their variant version line, since it was hardly likely they could develop the variant they had and mass-produce it in the time given. They also never suggested that Naruni Enterprises was the one who was mass-producing Glitter Boys in Phase world (seriously, they aren't the only manufacturer in the Three Galaxies).

[Nightmask]

I can't think of the setting reason, but I think the mechanics are for FQ getting to be special.

Not that special, different but not necessarily special. Seems like there's a group on each continent that can produce some version of the Glitter Boy. Japan has an entire pre-Cataclysm city that had the secrets and produces them, South America has several versions, the New German Republic has theirs, and even several Space versions.

[wyrmraker]

That'd be cool. I meant if they found manufacturing systems. It's not like any of their NEMA equipment they reverse engineered in the beginning, though I'm pretty sure by 109PA they've figured out how to do that.

Going by the book, the Proseks have always been pretty cheesed that Quebec not only have the technology for the chromium armor, but refuse to share. If the CS at large had the technology to build the Glitter Boys, they would have swiftly taken up the legendry of the 'Neemans', claiming to be the 'last true legacy' of the Golden Age. In a way they are, but using the iconic Glitter Boy would have been a no-brainer.

As for reverse engineering the chromium armor, I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the books it's canon that it's impossible to do without the actual secrets themselves. Or at least it's been heavily implied throughout the books.

Well the idea of reverse-engineering is working out what the secrets are for constructing something and at least one organization has done so in Phase World as it's canon that someone manufactures and sells them in Phase World. People on Earth just don't generally try for various reasons.

I get that for the Phase World setting. And I'm not saying that Naruni Enterprises probably hasn't already done it. But on Rifts Earth, even Triax had to make a deal with Free Quebec to get the secrets to making the chromium armor. And since Triax lost very little of their technical data during the Time of Rifts, one would think that Triax, of anywhere on Earth, would be able to reverse-engineer that particular secret.

Never got the impression that Triax got the secrets for Glitter Boy production from Free Quebec, more that they got complete technical data from them on the original design that they added to their variant version line, since it was hardly likely they could develop the variant they had and mass-produce it in the time given. They also never suggested that Naruni Enterprises was the one who was mass-producing Glitter Boys in Phase world (seriously, they aren't the only manufacturer in the Three Galaxies).

Triax & the NGR, p.45 "The creation of the Triax Glitter Boy has been made possible only from a technologies trade agreement between the NGR and Free Quebec. The original Glitter Bou technology was developed by an American corporation before the Great Cataclysm. Afterwards, the secrets of the infamous Glitter Boy, it's boom gun and unique laser resistant armor had been lost. Only Free Quebec was able to unearth the old GB technology, a secret they have never shared until now." So yeah, even Triax was unable to reverse engineer the chromium armor.

As for NE being the manufacturer of GB's in Phase world, I never said that. I only said that they would have what it takes to reverse engineer the technology, and I mentioned it as an example of the technological acumen of the Phase World setting.

[Aaryq]

I'm surprised that they don't have a setup like the one that the US Army was considering where a Stryker is modified so it only has the drivers position and the entire rear of the vehicle is vertical missile launch tubes. The unit follows behind an advancing line, designated soldiers are equipped with an under barrel laser marker that remote launches a missile from the vehicle. That would be awesome if they did that with a Mark V APC. those things are so tall they could have four SRM per VLT, 2 MRM per VLT or 1 LRM... heck with the tech they should have they could have a mix of missiles on board and allow the soldiers to call up whatever they need.

If you're interested I could re-post my modular Mark V APC creation. It's heavily influenced by the Stryker/LAV.

[Nightmask]

Going by the book, the Proseks have always been pretty cheesed that Quebec not only have the technology for the chromium armor, but refuse to share. If the CS at large had the technology to build the Glitter Boys, they would have swiftly taken up the legendry of the 'Neemans', claiming to be the 'last true legacy' of the Golden Age. In a way they are, but using the iconic Glitter Boy would have been a no-brainer.

As for reverse engineering the chromium armor, I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the books it's canon that it's impossible to do without the actual secrets themselves. Or at least it's been heavily implied throughout the books.

Well the idea of reverse-engineering is working out what the secrets are for constructing something and at least one organization has done so in Phase World as it's canon that someone manufactures and sells them in Phase World. People on Earth just don't generally try for various reasons.

I get that for the Phase World setting. And I'm not saying that Naruni Enterprises probably hasn't already done it. But on Rifts Earth, even Triax had to make a deal with Free Quebec to get the secrets to making the chromium armor. And since Triax lost very little of their technical data during the Time of Rifts, one would think that Triax, of anywhere on Earth, would be able to reverse-engineer that particular secret.

Never got the impression that Triax got the secrets for Glitter Boy production from Free Quebec, more that they got complete technical data from them on the original design that they added to their variant version line, since it was hardly likely they could develop the variant they had and mass-produce it in the time given. They also never suggested that Naruni Enterprises was the one who was mass-producing Glitter Boys in Phase world (seriously, they aren't the only manufacturer in the Three Galaxies).

Triax & the NGR, p.45 "The creation of the Triax Glitter Boy has been made possible only from a technologies trade agreement between the NGR and Free Quebec. The original Glitter Bou technology was developed by an American corporation before the Great Cataclysm. Afterwards, the secrets of the infamous Glitter Boy, it's boom gun and unique laser resistant armor had been lost. Only Free Quebec was able to unearth the old GB technology, a secret they have never shared until now." So yeah, even Triax was unable to reverse engineer the chromium armor.

As for NE being the manufacturer of GB's in Phase world, I never said that. I only said that they would have what it takes to reverse engineer the technology, and I mentioned it as an example of the technological acumen of the Phase World setting.

Well you do have me there, although that doesn't actually mean that Triax didn't have the capability to reverse engineer the Glitter Boy since we don't even know that they had access to any to try and reverse engineer. There aren't any examples I know of that there were any available for them to have the chance to reverse engineer them in the first place.

[wyrmraker]

I'm just saying that it's pretty much canon that nobody on Rifts Earth can reverse-engineer the Chromium Armor. The only ones with the secret of the stuff are either people who always had it (the rifted-in city in Japan, places in South America where the G-10 is still being manufactured, as mentioned in the Glitter Girl text) and the ones who rediscovered the secrets such as Quebec (they found a factory).

[Nightmask]

I'm just saying that it's pretty much canon that nobody on Rifts Earth can reverse-engineer the Chromium Armor. The only ones with the secret of the stuff are either people who always had it (the rifted-in city in Japan, places in South America where the G-10 is still being manufactured, as mentioned in the Glitter Girl text) and the ones who rediscovered the secrets such as Quebec (they found a factory).

'Pretty Much' isn't good enough though, there's nothing that actually says the technology is impossible to reverse-engineer on the part of anyone on Earth, just that no one has which could be for a variety of reasons including simply not being able to acquire enough samples by those that could (not hard to believe given how rare the things are).

[wyrmraker]

I'm just saying that it's pretty much canon that nobody on Rifts Earth can reverse-engineer the Chromium Armor. The only ones with the secret of the stuff are either people who always had it (the rifted-in city in Japan, places in South America where the G-10 is still being manufactured, as mentioned in the Glitter Girl text) and the ones who rediscovered the secrets such as Quebec (they found a factory).

'Pretty Much' isn't good enough though, there's nothing that actually says the technology is impossible to reverse-engineer on the part of anyone on Earth, just that no one has which could be for a variety of reasons including simply not being able to acquire enough samples by those that could (not hard to believe given how rare the things are).

Sorry, but I am still disagreeing with you. Granted, very little in Rifts is listed as 'impossible', but given the canon sources and directions that the writers have taken to prohibit all but select groups to gain access to the most durable material on Rifts Earth, I'm going to stick with saying that any reverse-engineering would have to be done in-game, with approval from the GM.

Especially since nobody on Rifts Earth has been able to actually reverse-engineer the material. Not Triax, Bandito Arms, the CS scientists, or even, apparently, Atlantis. At least, not canonically.

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm surprised that they don't have a setup like the one that the US Army was considering where a Stryker is modified so it only has the drivers position and the entire rear of the vehicle is vertical missile launch tubes. The unit follows behind an advancing line, designated soldiers are equipped with an under barrel laser marker that remote launches a missile from the vehicle. That would be awesome if they did that with a Mark V APC. those things are so tall they could have four SRM per VLT, 2 MRM per VLT or 1 LRM... heck with the tech they should have they could have a mix of missiles on board and allow the soldiers to call up whatever they need.

If you're interested I could re-post my modular Mark V APC creation. It's heavily influenced by the Stryker/LAV.

repost nah, could ya e-mail it to Ramease.shaw@gmail.com

[Zer0 Kay]

I'm just saying that it's pretty much canon that nobody on Rifts Earth can reverse-engineer the Chromium Armor. The only ones with the secret of the stuff are either people who always had it (the rifted-in city in Japan, places in South America where the G-10 is still being manufactured, as mentioned in the Glitter Girl text) and the ones who rediscovered the secrets such as Quebec (they found a factory).

'Pretty Much' isn't good enough though, there's nothing that actually says the technology is impossible to reverse-engineer on the part of anyone on Earth, just that no one has which could be for a variety of reasons including simply not being able to acquire enough samples by those that could (not hard to believe given how rare the things are).

Sorry, but I am still disagreeing with you. Granted, very little in Rifts is listed as 'impossible', but given the canon sources and directions that the writers have taken to prohibit all but select groups to gain access to the most durable material on Rifts Earth, I'm going to stick with saying that any reverse-engineering would have to be done in-game, with approval from the GM.

Especially since nobody on Rifts Earth has been able to actually reverse-engineer the material. Not Triax, Bandito Arms, the CS scientists, or even, apparently, Atlantis. At least, not canonically.

Rare by common knowledge, if they knew the army FQ had then they aren't very rare at all.

[GBAnnihilator]

Back on the Artillery idea. Could the CS make something like a Mountaineer, but with two huge Howitzer cannons on the back and multiple different turrets on the sides. Maybe they could also take the smart missile and turn it into a smart round so that infantry can laser target an enemy for more accuracy.

[Thinyser]

Could they? Yes seems pretty do-able by their tech nerds and manufacturing capabilities.
Would they? The GM gets to decide that.

[Nightmask]

I'm just saying that it's pretty much canon that nobody on Rifts Earth can reverse-engineer the Chromium Armor. The only ones with the secret of the stuff are either people who always had it (the rifted-in city in Japan, places in South America where the G-10 is still being manufactured, as mentioned in the Glitter Girl text) and the ones who rediscovered the secrets such as Quebec (they found a factory).

'Pretty Much' isn't good enough though, there's nothing that actually says the technology is impossible to reverse-engineer on the part of anyone on Earth, just that no one has which could be for a variety of reasons including simply not being able to acquire enough samples by those that could (not hard to believe given how rare the things are).

Sorry, but I am still disagreeing with you. Granted, very little in Rifts is listed as 'impossible', but given the canon sources and directions that the writers have taken to prohibit all but select groups to gain access to the most durable material on Rifts Earth, I'm going to stick with saying that any reverse-engineering would have to be done in-game, with approval from the GM.

Especially since nobody on Rifts Earth has been able to actually reverse-engineer the material. Not Triax, Bandito Arms, the CS scientists, or even, apparently, Atlantis. At least, not canonically.

We don't know that Triax or Atlantis were even in the position to try, and Atlantis being what it is and marketing its own products might not even feel like making the effort even if it had access to samples. We don't know what effort your other two examples have made into doing it, and it seems like the CS abandoned the effort early on after stealing that treasure trove of Pre-Rifts technology.

As far as the writing efforts trying to keep Glitter Boy construction unique, well that's not much different than the writing having it that no one on Rifts Earth seems able to figure out that there are a variety of space stations and a thriving space community even though it should be fairly obvious to figure out. After all the books has also never had problems with Glitter Boys being able to get repairs in spite of the fact that you can't repair something if you can't manufacture suitable replacement parts for it so SOMEONE'S able to produce replacement Glitter Boy Parts including the Chromium Armor and they aren't all coming from Free Quebec.

[wyrmraker]

I'm just saying that it's pretty much canon that nobody on Rifts Earth can reverse-engineer the Chromium Armor. The only ones with the secret of the stuff are either people who always had it (the rifted-in city in Japan, places in South America where the G-10 is still being manufactured, as mentioned in the Glitter Girl text) and the ones who rediscovered the secrets such as Quebec (they found a factory).

'Pretty Much' isn't good enough though, there's nothing that actually says the technology is impossible to reverse-engineer on the part of anyone on Earth, just that no one has which could be for a variety of reasons including simply not being able to acquire enough samples by those that could (not hard to believe given how rare the things are).

Sorry, but I am still disagreeing with you. Granted, very little in Rifts is listed as 'impossible', but given the canon sources and directions that the writers have taken to prohibit all but select groups to gain access to the most durable material on Rifts Earth, I'm going to stick with saying that any reverse-engineering would have to be done in-game, with approval from the GM.

Especially since nobody on Rifts Earth has been able to actually reverse-engineer the material. Not Triax, Bandito Arms, the CS scientists, or even, apparently, Atlantis. At least, not canonically.

We don't know that Triax or Atlantis were even in the position to try, and Atlantis being what it is and marketing its own products might not even feel like making the effort even if it had access to samples. We don't know what effort your other two examples have made into doing it, and it seems like the CS abandoned the effort early on after stealing that treasure trove of Pre-Rifts technology.

As far as the writing efforts trying to keep Glitter Boy construction unique, well that's not much different than the writing having it that no one on Rifts Earth seems able to figure out that there are a variety of space stations and a thriving space community even though it should be fairly obvious to figure out. After all the books has also never had problems with Glitter Boys being able to get repairs in spite of the fact that you can't repair something if you can't manufacture suitable replacement parts for it so SOMEONE'S able to produce replacement Glitter Boy Parts including the Chromium Armor and they aren't all coming from Free Quebec.

It's true, we don't know. Replacement GB parts and repairs being available doesn't make sense when the text states what I quoted. But how often does PB contradict themselves in the text?

[Alrik Vas]

I support repair by oogalie boogalie. Just SSHHHHH...and let it happen.

[wyrmraker]

I support repair by oogalie boogalie. Just SSHHHHH...and let it happen.

I have to disagree with the SSHHHHH method. I prefer the guy chanting and shaking chicken feet at the power armor until it works again.

[Shark_Force]

Back on the Artillery idea. Could the CS make something like a Mountaineer, but with two huge Howitzer cannons on the back and multiple different turrets on the sides. Maybe they could also take the smart missile and turn it into a smart round so that infantry can laser target an enemy for more accuracy.

well, you'd probably need to do more than just mount the howitzers on there.

self-propelled guns are a thing, but they're generally not designed to shoot while mobile. not sure more than one howitzer would be practical, but in any event i'd require you to install something similar to the glitter boy pylons into the mountaineer if you wanted to be able to deploy quickly (a slower version would probably take close to a minute to set up as it extends and drops braces that would need to be adjusted properly, but could reasonably undeploy very quickly i'd guess). the mountaineer itself is imo not heavy enough to handle the recoil of a howitzer on it's own, let alone two howitzers.

as to multiple different turrets on the sides, well... at some point, you run into a practical limit. with two howitzers, you're already going to have a lot of room dedicated to crew space for those howitzers, and ammunition. you'd need a very large vehicle to be able to mount a whole bunch of turrets on it.

besides, if anything i'd expect them to do a mark V variant with howitzers. even then, i'd say firing two howitzers in a volley is probably just too much to handle while moving, but since howitzers (and artillery in general) is not associated with an extreme firing rate, you could have multiple guns to basically increase firing rate, and there's certainly plenty of room to crew a pair of howitzers, and it already has turrets mounted on it (you'd likely have to give up most of the top-mounted guns for this variant, though).

[Thinyser]

So i'm sure most of you have seen these but I like watching stuff blow up

Here is the (now scrapped) crusader self propelled 155mm howitzer able to put 8 shells on target at the same time. I started it at the part that details this ability. It also states (earlier in the vid) that its accurate within 3 feet at range. However artillery is only good on stationary targets.

To take care of that Raytheon has developed the Excalibur 1b 155mm round The one shown in the vid has only GPS and is accurate within 2m at extended ranges. They have since upgraded the round (Excalibur S) to include a laser tracker that can change the rounds impact point after its in flight, making it able to hit targets that have repositioned after it was fired. I assume that it could work on slowly moving vehicles or troupes.

So with the ability to put 8 rounds on target at the same time AND to hit targets that have repositioned (or possibly a slow moving target) all from a single gun you could pretty much take out a GB with just two of these and coordinated fire, for one minute of firing (each puts out 10-12 rounds a minute, 8 of which can impact all at once due to the variation of trajectories). While from the GB perspective it gets hit with 16 shells all at once and a minute or two later (once the smoke clears from the first strike spotters can radio back if more rounds need to be fired) another simultaneously impacting salvo can finish the job if needed.

[Zer0 Kay]

Could they? Yes seems pretty do-able by their tech nerds and manufacturing capabilities.
Would they? The GM gets to decide that.

why would they want a truck with giant stomper tires when I coulda sworn they had a tank unit in CSWC that had dual cannons and was larger then the Stomper (tm) rip-off? just replace the cannons with artillery barrels.

[Alrik Vas]

I support repair by oogalie boogalie. Just SSHHHHH...and let it happen.

I have to disagree with the SSHHHHH method. I prefer the guy chanting and shaking chicken feet at the power armor until it works again.

I find this to be reasonable.

[wyrmraker]

Another modern method is to use high-altitude bombers. Bombing from 50,000 feet or just under 5 miles up. The bombs could be refitted LRM warheads. Using Proton Torpedoes (6D6x10 MD, 50 foot blast radius) or Heavy Plasma/Heat warheads (5D6x10 MD, 50 foot blast radius), and carpet bomb a battlefield full of Glitter Boys using refitted C-141s and the like.

[Alrik Vas]

Or the last of the Air Castles.

[GBAnnihilator]

Back on the Artillery idea. Could the CS make something like a Mountaineer, but with two huge Howitzer cannons on the back and multiple different turrets on the sides. Maybe they could also take the smart missile and turn it into a smart round so that infantry can laser target an enemy for more accuracy.

well, you'd probably need to do more than just mount the howitzers on there.

self-propelled guns are a thing, but they're generally not designed to shoot while mobile. not sure more than one howitzer would be practical, but in any event i'd require you to install something similar to the glitter boy pylons into the mountaineer if you wanted to be able to deploy quickly (a slower version would probably take close to a minute to set up as it extends and drops braces that would need to be adjusted properly, but could reasonably undeploy very quickly i'd guess). the mountaineer itself is imo not heavy enough to handle the recoil of a howitzer on it's own, let alone two howitzers.

as to multiple different turrets on the sides, well... at some point, you run into a practical limit. with two howitzers, you're already going to have a lot of room dedicated to crew space for those howitzers, and ammunition. you'd need a very large vehicle to be able to mount a whole bunch of turrets on it.

besides, if anything i'd expect them to do a mark V variant with howitzers. even then, i'd say firing two howitzers in a volley is probably just too much to handle while moving, but since howitzers (and artillery in general) is not associated with an extreme firing rate, you could have multiple guns to basically increase firing rate, and there's certainly plenty of room to crew a pair of howitzers, and it already has turrets mounted on it (you'd likely have to give up most of the top-mounted guns for this variant, though).

I wasn't meaning an actual Mountaineer, I was just using it as a size reference. I kind of figured that having two huge howitzers on one vehicle implied that it wasn't going to be moving, so yea it would probably need a couple stabilizers. If it can't have turrets they could just have a few SAMAS as close defense. Of course using railgun tech to boost the range.

[Thinyser]

Could they? Yes seems pretty do-able by their tech nerds and manufacturing capabilities.
Would they? The GM gets to decide that.

why would they want a truck with giant stomper tires when I coulda sworn they had a tank unit in CSWC that had dual cannons and was larger then the Stomper (tm) rip-off? just replace the cannons with artillery barrels.

Hey man don't ask me I never proposed the idea, I never said they would, I only said they could (based on their technical and manufacturing prowess).

[wyrmraker]

Well, how about we combine some ideas here. After all, the primary use of the Glitter Boy Killer idea is for the Coalition States to more efficiently combat Free Quebec, right?


Start the assault with strategic air support in the form of carpet bombers. Simply converting the old USAF bombers is far better than using the CAF-1 Flying Leviathan. The CAF-1 is a very expensive prototype bomber, whereas the classic B-52 is a tried and true model that is projected to still be in service into the 2040s.

Add in either towed or mobile artillery at sufficient range.

Use the Glitter Boy Killer upgrades. Urban combat is that unit's theatre.

While the Glitter Boy Killers operate, give them aerial fire support in the form of Warbird Rocket Cycles, SAMAS units, and Demon Locust attack helicopters.

What do you think? Are those a good start to fight Free Quebec's Glitter Boys as well as their support units?

[eliakon]

Well, how about we combine some ideas here. After all, the primary use of the Glitter Boy Killer idea is for the Coalition States to more efficiently combat Free Quebec, right?


Start the assault with strategic air support in the form of carpet bombers. Simply converting the old USAF bombers is far better than using the CAF-1 Flying Leviathan. The CAF-1 is a very expensive prototype bomber, whereas the classic B-52 is a tried and true model that is projected to still be in service into the 2040s.

Add in either towed or mobile artillery at sufficient range.

Use the Glitter Boy Killer upgrades. Urban combat is that unit's theatre.

While the Glitter Boy Killers operate, give them aerial fire support in the form of Warbird Rocket Cycles, SAMAS units, and Demon Locust attack helicopters.

What do you think? Are those a good start to fight Free Quebec's Glitter Boys as well as their support units?

THIS
This is how an army fights. You don't need to make a single uber super model that does it all AND makes Julian fries (though if you use some anti-juicer armor with some plasma weapons you can fry Julian....), you use multiple units in coordination to achieve your aims.

[kaid]

Forget howitzers just use 120mm mortars! They have a max range of 7200 meters (4.47 miles) so you could sit well outside the range of the boomgun and lob in shells from 10 of these stationed all around the GB, and assuming you could use MD explosives (that were equivalent to mini missiles for damage) in the warheads you could take him out with ease.

With 3 Sky Cycles you could probably carry the parts to assemble the gun and 9-15 shells. Once each team sets up the gun and drops off the ammo they leave one man to bombard the target while the other two engage the target from the air with mini-missiles, or just circle the battle and take measurements and act as the spotters to target the mortars.
With a little tech enhancement of laser guided mortars you significantly up the lethality as the other sky cycles can paint the target with a laser so if it moves while the mortars are aloft they still drop on target.

Yeah its 30 soldiers, 30 sky cycles, 10 mortar tubes and 90/150 shells (though not all would likely get used) But everybody stays safe out of sight behind terrain AND at extended range that the boom gun cannot touch. So I figure the investment is about the same 25 million as one GB and pilot but its spread out over many parts and likely to survive with minimal damage if not completely unscathed.

Motars are great for hitting fixed positions or shelling infantry but Given how fast power armor moves even glitter boys they would not be terribly effective vs them. Even if you manage to land a shell near a GB if its not a direct hit its doing half damage or less. Just as today you don't really use motars to take out main battle tanks as they are largely ineffective vs them baring some really lucky hits.

[Zer0 Kay]

Well, how about we combine some ideas here. After all, the primary use of the Glitter Boy Killer idea is for the Coalition States to more efficiently combat Free Quebec, right?


Start the assault with strategic air support in the form of carpet bombers. Simply converting the old USAF bombers is far better than using the CAF-1 Flying Leviathan. The CAF-1 is a very expensive prototype bomber, whereas the classic B-52 is a tried and true model that is projected to still be in service into the 2040s.

Add in either towed or mobile artillery at sufficient range.

Use the Glitter Boy Killer upgrades. Urban combat is that unit's theatre.

While the Glitter Boy Killers operate, give them aerial fire support in the form of Warbird Rocket Cycles, SAMAS units, and Demon Locust attack helicopters.

What do you think? Are those a good start to fight Free Quebec's Glitter Boys as well as their support units?

THIS
This is how an army fights. You don't need to make a single uber super model that does it all AND makes Julian fries (though if you use some anti-juicer armor with some plasma weapons you can fry Julian....), you use multiple units in coordination to achieve your aims.

Yeah because countries don't make tank hunters... Oh wait the Germans made the one based on the panzer III most of our light armors that mount TOW missiles would be considered H-K units. It doesn't need to be an Uber Swiss army unit, a H-K is supposed to be mobile cheap and able to take out a tank before the tank knows ots there. Heck in some cases now with effective man portable anti tank missiles a unit of men can be H-Ks.
One does not mobilize an entire army to get rid of a single tank column. Now I'd hope that the above scenario that it is FQ mobilizing and the CS countering. Saying what you said is like saying that a war is only big battles. So Desert Storm's only battle was 73 Easting right and WWII's was Normandy, everything else that happened wasn't the war.

[Zer0 Kay]

Another modern method is to use high-altitude bombers. Bombing from 50,000 feet or just under 5 miles up. The bombs could be refitted LRM warheads. Using Proton Torpedoes (6D6x10 MD, 50 foot blast radius) or Heavy Plasma/Heat warheads (5D6x10 MD, 50 foot blast radius), and carpet bomb a battlefield full of Glitter Boys using refitted C-141s and the like.

WHy not use smart bombs deployed enmass? Then instead of destroying a bunch of potential property you only get what ya want.

[Zer0 Kay]

Could they? Yes seems pretty do-able by their tech nerds and manufacturing capabilities.
Would they? The GM gets to decide that.

why would they want a truck with giant stomper tires when I coulda sworn they had a tank unit in CSWC that had dual cannons and was larger then the Stomper (tm) rip-off? just replace the cannons with artillery barrels.

Hey man don't ask me I never proposed the idea, I never said they would, I only said they could (based on their technical and manufacturing prowess).

Hey Thinny what's that <----

[Zer0 Kay]

Well if were going for range why don't we just use the stats for the naval railgun? 32 Megajoules launches a 23 lbs guided shell 110 miles

1Mj = 1 ton moving at 100 mph

So that should mean that a 23 lbs object should be traveling at... Holy crap my math has to be wrong.
So the shell is 86.95 times smaller than a ton right we'll call this 's'
And 32 Mj should send a ton at 3200 mph right or send 32 tons at 100 mph
So shouldn't s x the speed 1Mj sends a ton x the number of Mj = the speed the round should be traveling at in mph and divide that by 750 for a rough mach number at sea level?

So Mach 370! That can't be right can it? What real world science am I missing or is that why it goes 110 miles and blows things up like a battleship shell but with kinetic force alone? If that is so, that stupid turtle in SA2 should skip the lame boomguns and go with a couple naval railguns.

read http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comm ... ajoule_as/

its a coincidence K = ½mv2 is the correct formula so an increase (or decrease of m) it changes at a 2x rate, whereas changes of v are much more significant)

okay excuse my stupidity or rather physics ignorance... I'll call it phignorance, but what is K? Kinetic energy? Where is the Mj on the formula?

[eliakon]

Well, how about we combine some ideas here. After all, the primary use of the Glitter Boy Killer idea is for the Coalition States to more efficiently combat Free Quebec, right?


Start the assault with strategic air support in the form of carpet bombers. Simply converting the old USAF bombers is far better than using the CAF-1 Flying Leviathan. The CAF-1 is a very expensive prototype bomber, whereas the classic B-52 is a tried and true model that is projected to still be in service into the 2040s.

Add in either towed or mobile artillery at sufficient range.

Use the Glitter Boy Killer upgrades. Urban combat is that unit's theatre.

While the Glitter Boy Killers operate, give them aerial fire support in the form of Warbird Rocket Cycles, SAMAS units, and Demon Locust attack helicopters.

What do you think? Are those a good start to fight Free Quebec's Glitter Boys as well as their support units?

THIS
This is how an army fights. You don't need to make a single uber super model that does it all AND makes Julian fries (though if you use some anti-juicer armor with some plasma weapons you can fry Julian....), you use multiple units in coordination to achieve your aims.

Yeah because countries don't make tank hunters... Oh wait the Germans made the one based on the panzer III most of our light armors that mount TOW missiles would be considered H-K units. It doesn't need to be an Uber Swiss army unit, a H-K is supposed to be mobile cheap and able to take out a tank before the tank knows ots there. Heck in some cases now with effective man portable anti tank missiles a unit of men can be H-Ks.
One does not mobilize an entire army to get rid of a single tank column. Now I'd hope that the above scenario that it is FQ mobilizing and the CS countering. Saying what you said is like saying that a war is only big battles. So Desert Storm's only battle was 73 Easting right and WWII's was Normandy, everything else that happened wasn't the war.

If the CS is fighting Quebecs Glitter boys, I would say that by definition is going to be a full on war.
Now based on the layout of how those Glitter boys are deployed its not going to be penny packets of them (that whole fluff about how Quebec has enough of them to 'use them properly' with support and whatnot)....so yah, fighting the GBs will be likely in big battles.
And I would say that a 'glitterboy killer' is the definition of a special weapon. Especially when, as noted, a Samas can do just as good a job. That would make the Samas the 'Tank Hunter' (which btw, was abandoned for a reason). In penny packet battles just send in a Samas which can take on a GB or two. Then you don't need to have a specialized unit that is set up for one specific foe. If you ARE going to fight that foe, in numbers, then it STILL doesn't make sense to make a unique specialized unit when you can just, once again, use your general units as an integrated whole and STILL curbstomp them.
Honestly to me the whole idea of a GBK only makes sense for people like adventurers who might actually specialize in fighting glitterboys, in oneseeys and twosees.

[eliakon]

Well if were going for range why don't we just use the stats for the naval railgun? 32 Megajoules launches a 23 lbs guided shell 110 miles

1Mj = 1 ton moving at 100 mph

So that should mean that a 23 lbs object should be traveling at... Holy crap my math has to be wrong.
So the shell is 86.95 times smaller than a ton right we'll call this 's'
And 32 Mj should send a ton at 3200 mph right or send 32 tons at 100 mph
So shouldn't s x the speed 1Mj sends a ton x the number of Mj = the speed the round should be traveling at in mph and divide that by 750 for a rough mach number at sea level?

So Mach 370! That can't be right can it? What real world science am I missing or is that why it goes 110 miles and blows things up like a battleship shell but with kinetic force alone? If that is so, that stupid turtle in SA2 should skip the lame boomguns and go with a couple naval railguns.

read http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comm ... ajoule_as/

its a coincidence K = ½mv2 is the correct formula so an increase (or decrease of m) it changes at a 2x rate, whereas changes of v are much more significant)

okay excuse my stupidity or rather physics ignorance... I'll call it phignorance, but what is K? Kinetic energy? Where is the Mj on the formula?

The issue to me is that is mixing realworld weapons (battleship guns) with game (where weapons ranges and damages are WAY nerfed)
Although it makes a little bit more if you just assume that the huge damage IS megadamage....so that gun is doing 3d6x1000 damage to an SDC structure...

[Aaryq]

Well, how about we combine some ideas here. After all, the primary use of the Glitter Boy Killer idea is for the Coalition States to more efficiently combat Free Quebec, right?


Start the assault with strategic air support in the form of carpet bombers. Simply converting the old USAF bombers is far better than using the CAF-1 Flying Leviathan. The CAF-1 is a very expensive prototype bomber, whereas the classic B-52 is a tried and true model that is projected to still be in service into the 2040s.

Add in either towed or mobile artillery at sufficient range.

Use the Glitter Boy Killer upgrades. Urban combat is that unit's theatre.

While the Glitter Boy Killers operate, give them aerial fire support in the form of Warbird Rocket Cycles, SAMAS units, and Demon Locust attack helicopters.

What do you think? Are those a good start to fight Free Quebec's Glitter Boys as well as their support units?

THIS
This is how an army fights. You don't need to make a single uber super model that does it all AND makes Julian fries (though if you use some anti-juicer armor with some plasma weapons you can fry Julian....), you use multiple units in coordination to achieve your aims.

Yeah because countries don't make tank hunters... Oh wait the Germans made the one based on the panzer III most of our light armors that mount TOW missiles would be considered H-K units. It doesn't need to be an Uber Swiss army unit, a H-K is supposed to be mobile cheap and able to take out a tank before the tank knows ots there. Heck in some cases now with effective man portable anti tank missiles a unit of men can be H-Ks.
One does not mobilize an entire army to get rid of a single tank column. Now I'd hope that the above scenario that it is FQ mobilizing and the CS countering. Saying what you said is like saying that a war is only big battles. So Desert Storm's only battle was 73 Easting right and WWII's was Normandy, everything else that happened wasn't the war.

If the CS is fighting Quebecs Glitter boys, I would say that by definition is going to be a full on war.
Now based on the layout of how those Glitter boys are deployed its not going to be penny packets of them (that whole fluff about how Quebec has enough of them to 'use them properly' with support and whatnot)....so yah, fighting the GBs will be likely in big battles.
And I would say that a 'glitterboy killer' is the definition of a special weapon. Especially when, as noted, a Samas can do just as good a job. That would make the Samas the 'Tank Hunter' (which btw, was abandoned for a reason). In penny packet battles just send in a Samas which can take on a GB or two. Then you don't need to have a specialized unit that is set up for one specific foe. If you ARE going to fight that foe, in numbers, then it STILL doesn't make sense to make a unique specialized unit when you can just, once again, use your general units as an integrated whole and STILL curbstomp them.
Honestly to me the whole idea of a GBK only makes sense for people like adventurers who might actually specialize in fighting glitterboys, in oneseeys and twosees.

More reason for the CS to use Skelebots with targeted attacks to the GB weak points.

[Thinyser]

Well if were going for range why don't we just use the stats for the naval railgun? 32 Megajoules launches a 23 lbs guided shell 110 miles

1Mj = 1 ton moving at 100 mph

So that should mean that a 23 lbs object should be traveling at... Holy crap my math has to be wrong.
So the shell is 86.95 times smaller than a ton right we'll call this 's'
And 32 Mj should send a ton at 3200 mph right or send 32 tons at 100 mph
So shouldn't s x the speed 1Mj sends a ton x the number of Mj = the speed the round should be traveling at in mph and divide that by 750 for a rough mach number at sea level?

So Mach 370! That can't be right can it? What real world science am I missing or is that why it goes 110 miles and blows things up like a battleship shell but with kinetic force alone? If that is so, that stupid turtle in SA2 should skip the lame boomguns and go with a couple naval railguns.

read http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comm ... ajoule_as/

its a coincidence K = ½mv2 is the correct formula so an increase (or decrease of m) it changes at a 2x rate, whereas changes of v are much more significant)

okay excuse my stupidity or rather physics ignorance... I'll call it phignorance, but what is K? Kinetic energy? Where is the Mj on the formula?

yep K is the Joules (once over a million then you have MegaJoules)
Oh and to correct the formula the 2 should be squaring v so its acutally K = ½mv[sup]2[/sup] So small changes in Velocity are pretty important and Mass is less so.

[guardiandashi]

Well if were going for range why don't we just use the stats for the naval railgun? 32 Megajoules launches a 23 lbs guided shell 110 miles

1Mj = 1 ton moving at 100 mph

So that should mean that a 23 lbs object should be traveling at... Holy crap my math has to be wrong.
So the shell is 86.95 times smaller than a ton right we'll call this 's'
And 32 Mj should send a ton at 3200 mph right or send 32 tons at 100 mph
So shouldn't s x the speed 1Mj sends a ton x the number of Mj = the speed the round should be traveling at in mph and divide that by 750 for a rough mach number at sea level?

So Mach 370! That can't be right can it? What real world science am I missing or is that why it goes 110 miles and blows things up like a battleship shell but with kinetic force alone? If that is so, that stupid turtle in SA2 should skip the lame boomguns and go with a couple naval railguns.

read http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comm ... ajoule_as/

its a coincidence K = ½mv2 is the correct formula so an increase (or decrease of m) it changes at a 2x rate, whereas changes of v are much more significant)

okay excuse my stupidity or rather physics ignorance... I'll call it phignorance, but what is K? Kinetic energy? Where is the Mj on the formula?

yep K is the Joules (once over a million then you have MegaJoules)
Oh and to correct the formula the 2 should be squaring v so its acutally K = ½mv[sup]2[/sup] So small changes in Velocity are pretty important and Mass is less so.

sorry yes
K = ½mv[sup]2[/sup]
K- kenetic energy, ie the joules gets plugged in here
1/2m means a change of m only counts half the change so if you double or halve the mass its change is less.
v[sup]2[/sup] is velocity times velocity or in other words you could rewrite the formula as:
K=1/2mvv

[GBAnnihilator]

Well, how about we combine some ideas here. After all, the primary use of the Glitter Boy Killer idea is for the Coalition States to more efficiently combat Free Quebec, right?


Start the assault with strategic air support in the form of carpet bombers. Simply converting the old USAF bombers is far better than using the CAF-1 Flying Leviathan. The CAF-1 is a very expensive prototype bomber, whereas the classic B-52 is a tried and true model that is projected to still be in service into the 2040s.

Add in either towed or mobile artillery at sufficient range.

Use the Glitter Boy Killer upgrades. Urban combat is that unit's theatre.

While the Glitter Boy Killers operate, give them aerial fire support in the form of Warbird Rocket Cycles, SAMAS units, and Demon Locust attack helicopters.

What do you think? Are those a good start to fight Free Quebec's Glitter Boys as well as their support units?

THIS
This is how an army fights. You don't need to make a single uber super model that does it all AND makes Julian fries (though if you use some anti-juicer armor with some plasma weapons you can fry Julian....), you use multiple units in coordination to achieve your aims.

Yeah because countries don't make tank hunters... Oh wait the Germans made the one based on the panzer III most of our light armors that mount TOW missiles would be considered H-K units. It doesn't need to be an Uber Swiss army unit, a H-K is supposed to be mobile cheap and able to take out a tank before the tank knows ots there. Heck in some cases now with effective man portable anti tank missiles a unit of men can be H-Ks.
One does not mobilize an entire army to get rid of a single tank column. Now I'd hope that the above scenario that it is FQ mobilizing and the CS countering. Saying what you said is like saying that a war is only big battles. So Desert Storm's only battle was 73 Easting right and WWII's was Normandy, everything else that happened wasn't the war.

If the CS is fighting Quebecs Glitter boys, I would say that by definition is going to be a full on war.
Now based on the layout of how those Glitter boys are deployed its not going to be penny packets of them (that whole fluff about how Quebec has enough of them to 'use them properly' with support and whatnot)....so yah, fighting the GBs will be likely in big battles.
And I would say that a 'glitterboy killer' is the definition of a special weapon. Especially when, as noted, a Samas can do just as good a job. That would make the Samas the 'Tank Hunter' (which btw, was abandoned for a reason). In penny packet battles just send in a Samas which can take on a GB or two. Then you don't need to have a specialized unit that is set up for one specific foe. If you ARE going to fight that foe, in numbers, then it STILL doesn't make sense to make a unique specialized unit when you can just, once again, use your general units as an integrated whole and STILL curbstomp them.
Honestly to me the whole idea of a GBK only makes sense for people like adventurers who might actually specialize in fighting glitterboys, in oneseeys and twosees.

If you have one specific unit specifically designed to do the massive damage to the GB you don't need to make a huge army for only one kill. A GBK that can fight GBs in oneseeys and twosees, like you said, so instead of 100/1 its 2/1. Using a lot less manpower and getting the same results.

[GBAnnihilator]

Another modern method is to use high-altitude bombers. Bombing from 50,000 feet or just under 5 miles up. The bombs could be refitted LRM warheads. Using Proton Torpedoes (6D6x10 MD, 50 foot blast radius) or Heavy Plasma/Heat warheads (5D6x10 MD, 50 foot blast radius), and carpet bomb a battlefield full of Glitter Boys using refitted C-141s and the like.

WHy not use smart bombs deployed enmass? Then instead of destroying a bunch of potential property you only get what ya want.

Death from above.

[wyrmraker]

Sadly, the Palladium Roleplaying System has few (if any) provisions for mass combat. This limits the canonical options for the various player characters.

[Zer0 Kay]

Another modern method is to use high-altitude bombers. Bombing from 50,000 feet or just under 5 miles up. The bombs could be refitted LRM warheads. Using Proton Torpedoes (6D6x10 MD, 50 foot blast radius) or Heavy Plasma/Heat warheads (5D6x10 MD, 50 foot blast radius), and carpet bomb a battlefield full of Glitter Boys using refitted C-141s and the like.

WHy not use smart bombs deployed enmass? Then instead of destroying a bunch of potential property you only get what ya want.

Death from above.

Never a good reason to waste money, the only reason to use dumb bomb is if you don't know where to guide the bomb.