Euro as a language

SolCannibal · Unread post by **SolCannibal** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:18 pm

I have been reading some books and checking some NPCs here & there and some doubts have crossed my mind about Euro.

Euro is described in passing as "a blend of Russian, German, and Polish" and the fact it is included among the "nine major languages in the world of Rifts" sort of implies this pidgin has become the main language in Europe and/or its vicinities.

- But where is Euro actually a first language, if english, german, polish and russian are the languages of New Camelot, NGR, Tarnow and "Russia" respectively ? Are there any other minor (or not so minor) european states mentioned that are not ruled by monsters where one might speak it or is it a language of villagers, nomads, vagrants and explorers?

- Does it have a written form (probable, considering that most of the states mentioned above were isolated/besieged for centuries or are recent creations) and what is it based upon, a latin alphabet with some peculiar extras like german & polish, or a cyrillic one like russian and a number of south and east slavic languages? I could see points in favor of either or even both, depending on period, location and a number of other factors.

Trying to get a hang of this to make sense of a NPC or two and maybe organize things for a future game that will be at least partly set in europe.

Bood Samel · Unread post by **Bood Samel** » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:30 pm

Given that Rifts Europe tends to get ignored and is likely to do so for a long time to come, your take is good as any.

H.P. Hovercraft · Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:32 pm

Yeah, this language never really made a lot of sense to me, especially as later WB's came out. Then Euro's root languages made even less sense.

I'd imagine that in England, they still speak English. In Russia, Russian........and so on.

However, I could see a Euro language that consisted of French, Spanish, German and even English all mixing together seeing as they all have one common original root language. THIS version of Euro I could see as the dominant language of much of Europe (as poorly as much of Europe is defined; although I still see German as being the main tongue in the NGR).

.........................still not sure why Russian was ever thrown into the original mix.

grandmaster z0b · Thu Sep 04, 2014 9:51 pm

I'd say that it's used a lot for trade between the NGR and the various Russian Warlords/Sovietsky as well as for trade and communication for all the small states/kingdoms/towns that aren't part of the NGR or Russian states.

Also Spanish is a major language in North and South America but is it still spoken in Spain?

SolCannibal · Unread post by **SolCannibal** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:03 am

The blend of languages does point out to the idea of a greater proportion of people in central and eastern europe surviving the initial waves of chaos. Also, there's the fact that Rifts' definition of Russia is closer to "Soviet Union", adding up Belarus, Ukraine and some other contemporary countries that would be none too happy with the idea of being conflated with Russia. :badbad:

Anyway, russian and polish, divergent alphabets notwithstanding, are both slavic languages and phonetically closer to each other than to german, that is from a different family. Anyway, central and eastern europe are a melange of countries speaking different brands of germanic or slavic languages, what sort of contributes to such a mix being sort of inevitable in a post-apocalyptic context with groups of people switching between forced migration, conflict for resources, negotiations between bands of vagrants and the occasional alliance and mixing of groups of people in efforts to defend themselves or rebuild.

These things, combined with at least a few centuries of language drift make the actual preservation of german as first language in the NGR the more nonsensical fact (not to mention russian in the Warlords territories, that are overall much more savage and less enlightened or educated).

The lack of mention of romance languages is peculiar, but gargoyle dominance in France and atlantean presence in the Iberian Peninsula can, at least to some degree, explain that.

Britain is a peculiar case as, while english per se is a language in the germanic family, being an isle gives it a degree of separation. That said, exactly this degree of separation might have lead to waves of survivors from France, the Low Countries (and possibly the Iberian Peninsula) to cross the Channel in hope of "escaping the monsters" when the Splugorth started to make their presence known. This might lead to different but closely related mixes of english and romance languages to the one that formed "american", with possibly an expression here and there taken from either Euro or escaped slaves & guerilla fighters around the atlantean outpost.

Additionally, rechecking Rifts England it seems i was mistaken and english is NOT the dominant language, though neither is euro. Most people in the Isles seem to speak English, Euro, Gobblely and Faerie to varying degrees (and many probably speak more than one).

Also, it has crossed my mind that early apocalyptic survivors might try to preserve latin and cyrillic alphabets both, as you can hardly know beforehand what languages a stranger can read, can be used to make things purposefully more confusing to outsiders if need be, AND there are some modern languages with two alphabets or sets of symbols for different functions, so it's far from absurd.

Now all we need is some people in future books for whom Euro is the main spoken and/or written language...

SolCannibal · Unread post by **SolCannibal** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:31 am

Psionycx wrote:It pays to remember that Poland is Germany's neighbor, and a major trading partner even in the present-day real world. French speakers were likely almost entirely wiped out in Europe, leaving the Quebecois as the primary francophones on Rifts Earth. The fates of Italy and the Iberian Peninsula are vague, but they do not seem to be human-controlled anymore. That basically sticks a fork in the Romance languages post-Cataclysm. England is seething with magic, and has not had extensive contact with anybody else, therefore the English language would likewise fall into disuse on the continent. So it would not be surprising for a "European" language to be based on the nations which survived: which at the time were Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Poland and Russia.

Most people in the NGR still speak German in addition to Euro (being multilingual is a European thing after all). But given refugees fleeing Gargoyles and the like, some linguistic mixing was inevitable.

Yes, those are in part things i was getting at, though in a more elaborate and convoluted way.

kaid · Unread post by **kaid** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:37 pm

SolCannibal wrote:I have been reading some books and checking some NPCs here & there and some doubts have crossed my mind about Euro.

Euro is described in passing as "a blend of Russian, German, and Polish" and the fact it is included among the "nine major languages in the world of Rifts" sort of implies this pidgin has become the main language in Europe and/or its vicinities.

- But where is Euro actually a first language, if english, german, polish and russian are the languages of New Camelot, NGR, Tarnow and Russia? Are there any other minor (or not so minor) european states mentioned that are not ruled by monsters where one might speak it or is it a language of villagers, nomads, vagrants and explorers?

- Does it have a written form (probable, considering that most of the states mentioned above were isolated/besieged for centuries or are recent creations) and what is it based upon, a latin alphabet with some peculiar extras like german or polish or cyrillic like russian and a number of south and east slavic languages? I could see points in favor of either or even both, depending on period, location and a number of other factors.

Trying to get a hang of this to make sense of a NPC or two and maybe organize things for a future game that will be at least partly set in europe.

Since the other languages clearly exist I just took to have been a cannonnized language franca of the european union. It is one problem with the EU currently is there are a number of different languages which makes dealings across the EU a bit harder to standardize. I can see if it lasted long enough into the future a "trade language" would get made so that each state can still use their own language but they would have some basic language that would be taught to everybody so at very least you could make yourself understood to others in the EU.

If used for that it would make sense for it to have a written language as well likely for contract use so everybody involved in a contract no matter the country of origin in the EU would be able to understand it.

SolCannibal · Unread post by **SolCannibal** » Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:31 pm

kaid wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:I have been reading some books and checking some NPCs here & there and some doubts have crossed my mind about Euro.

Euro is described in passing as "a blend of Russian, German, and Polish" and the fact it is included among the "nine major languages in the world of Rifts" sort of implies this pidgin has become the main language in Europe and/or its vicinities.

- But where is Euro actually a first language, if english, german, polish and russian are the languages of New Camelot, NGR, Tarnow and Russia? Are there any other minor (or not so minor) european states mentioned that are not ruled by monsters where one might speak it or is it a language of villagers, nomads, vagrants and explorers?

- Does it have a written form (probable, considering that most of the states mentioned above were isolated/besieged for centuries or are recent creations) and what is it based upon, a latin alphabet with some peculiar extras like german or polish or cyrillic like russian and a number of south and east slavic languages? I could see points in favor of either or even both, depending on period, location and a number of other factors.

Trying to get a hang of this to make sense of a NPC or two and maybe organize things for a future game that will be at least partly set in europe.

Since the other languages clearly exist I just took to have been a cannonnized language franca of the european union. It is one problem with the EU currently is there are a number of different languages which makes dealings across the EU a bit harder to standardize. I can see if it lasted long enough into the future a "trade language" would get made so that each state can still use their own language but they would have some basic language that would be taught to everybody so at very least you could make yourself understood to others in the EU.

If used for that it would make sense for it to have a written language as well likely for contract use so everybody involved in a contract no matter the country of origin in the EU would be able to understand it.

It could be a pidgin formed through the centuries since the coming of the Rifts or a "trade language" developed in the decades between the present and the same event, either or even a mix of both, are possible explanations for its existence. Though considering the example of Esperanto's lack of success in that "international language" auxiliary role, i have some doubts an artificial language "coming from above" would work very well, pidgins tend to be more successful and organic in their spread.

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:08 pm

I've always seen Euro as a sort of Trade or 'Common" Language in Europe, probably because of the EU, with each culture retaining it's cultural language. I imagine it's orgins stem from before the time of the rifts, and since it's evolved. Just my thoughts though.

glitterboy2098 · Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:42 pm

i'd imagine that Euro started as something like the "city speak" of blade runner. a mishmash of language with complex rules to make it all work grammatically, used mainly to confuse those not in the know but picking up a popularity as novelty.

Gaff: Monsieur, azonnal kövessen engem, bitte!
[Deckard gestures to Sushi Master for translation]
Sushi Master: He say you under arrest, Mister Deckard.
Deckard: Got the wrong guy, pal.
Gaff: Lófaszt! Nehogy már! Te vagy a Blade, Blade Runner!
Sushi Master: He say you blade runner.
Deckard: Tell him I'm eating.
Gaff: Captain Bryant toka. Meni-o mae-yo.
Deckard: Bryant, huh?
Voice over (older versions of the film): That gibberish he talked was Cityspeak, gutter talk, a mishmash of Japanese, Spanish, German, what have you. I didn’t really need a translator. I knew the lingo, every good cop did. But I wasn’t going to make it easier for him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBiYAa5qdDE

city speak was the creation of Edward James Olmos, who's character Gaff was supposed to just speak another language, so he created a grammatically correct series of lines mixing Japanese, Spanish, and German, along with Hungarian, Chinese, and French.

SolCannibal · Unread post by **SolCannibal** » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:24 pm

Yes, yes, there are many ways to explore the lingo and its possible origins, presence and day-to-day use - written form(s) of it is just one that got my attention of late. Probably will work on it as part of a set-up of mine to Europe in Rifts. Not like everyone in the continent is going to keep using ancient pre-cataclysm country names & maps to define their current territories and identities.

Svartalf · Unread post by **Svartalf** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:36 am

Ravenwing wrote:I've always seen Euro as a sort of Trade or 'Common" Language in Europe, probably because of the EU, with each culture retaining it's cultural language. I imagine it's orgins stem from before the time of the rifts, and since it's evolved. Just my thoughts though.

Likely, but I can't see it supplanting real German in the NGR or real Russian in Russia

SolCannibal · Unread post by **SolCannibal** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 7:43 am

Svartalf wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:I've always seen Euro as a sort of Trade or 'Common" Language in Europe, probably because of the EU, with each culture retaining it's cultural language. I imagine it's orgins stem from before the time of the rifts, and since it's evolved. Just my thoughts though.

Likely, but I can't see it supplanting real German in the NGR or real Russian in Russia

That said the century or two of general breakdown of all states before things became a little more manageable and a post-apocalyptic set-up stabilized would be the perfect melting pot for such a mishmash of vocabularies to effectively grow and consolidate itself into an actual language. The key is not the NGR or the "Russian" territories (one of whom is actually Ukraine) per se, but the "masses" of city-states, small fixed or nomadic communities and fledgling & ephemeral minor nations that spread throughout Europe trying to comunicate with each other.

Ravenwing · Unread post by **Ravenwing** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:08 am

SolCannibal wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:I've always seen Euro as a sort of Trade or 'Common" Language in Europe, probably because of the EU, with each culture retaining it's cultural language. I imagine it's orgins stem from before the time of the rifts, and since it's evolved. Just my thoughts though.

Likely, but I can't see it supplanting real German in the NGR or real Russian in Russia

That said the century or two of general breakdown of all states before things became a little more manageable and a post-apocalyptic set-up stabilized would be the perfect melting pot for such a mishmash of vocabularies to effectively grow and consolidate itself into an actual language. The key is not the NGR or the "Russian" territories (one of whom is actually Ukraine) per se, but the "masses" of city-states, small fixed or nomadic communities and fledgling & ephemeral minor nations that spread throughout Europe trying to comunicate with each other.

Well with nearly a century of development before the Rifts, then two plus centuries as the only 'common' language between the various groups of survivors Euro would probably have came to dominate Europe really.

Of course cultural and regional languages would have survived.

SolCannibal · Unread post by **SolCannibal** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:50 pm

Ravenwing wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:I've always seen Euro as a sort of Trade or 'Common" Language in Europe, probably because of the EU, with each culture retaining it's cultural language. I imagine it's orgins stem from before the time of the rifts, and since it's evolved. Just my thoughts though.

Likely, but I can't see it supplanting real German in the NGR or real Russian in Russia

That said the century or two of general breakdown of all states before things became a little more manageable and a post-apocalyptic set-up stabilized would be the perfect melting pot for such a mishmash of vocabularies to effectively grow and consolidate itself into an actual language. The key is not the NGR or the "Russian" territories (one of whom is actually Ukraine) per se, but the "masses" of city-states, small fixed or nomadic communities and fledgling & ephemeral minor nations that spread throughout Europe trying to comunicate with each other.

Well with nearly a century of development before the Rifts, then two plus centuries as the only 'common' language between the various groups of survivors Euro would probably have came to dominate Europe really.

Of course cultural and regional languages would have survived.

Or mutated on their own into other dialects and even new languages, it all depends on local situation and written sources to help with the preservation of pre-rifts idioms.

DhAkael · Unread post by **DhAkael** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:05 pm

Best example (in use) of Euro is in the game 'Warframe'; specifically the Grineer.
The 'Blade Runner' city-speak is also a fine example as shown above.
So yeah, I actually CAN see it as a primary language, sorta like how English (which is an ungoldy mess of at least half a dozen root-languages, dialects and slang) became an official language over the centuries. Cuz the language Chaucer wrote & spoke is NOT the English we speak today by any stretch.

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:49 pm

H.P. Hovercraft wrote:Yeah, this language never really made a lot of sense to me, especially as later WB's came out. Then Euro's root languages made even less sense.

I'd imagine that in England, they still speak English. In Russia, Russian........and so on.

However, I could see a Euro language that consisted of French, Spanish, German and even English all mixing together seeing as they all have one common original root language. THIS version of Euro I could see as the dominant language of much of Europe (as poorly as much of Europe is defined; although I still see German as being the main tongue in the NGR).

.........................still not sure why Russian was ever thrown into the original mix.

Um... English is Anglish which was Germanic Which is Indo-European
French is an Oïl language which > Gallo-romance > western romance > romance > itallic > Indo-european
Spanish > Castillian > west Iberian > Ibero-romance > western romance
Russian > Slavic > Indo-European

Spanish and French share the romance but English is Germanic and the first time they see relation besides a few words which would be like claiming that Japanese is a romance language because of terrabee and rageo. So if Indo-European is the "shared" root then Russian shares it too.

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:52 pm

DhAkael wrote:Best example (in use) of Euro is in the game 'Warframe'; specifically the Grineer.
The 'Blade Runner' city-speak is also a fine example as shown above.
So yeah, I actually CAN see it as a primary language, sorta like how English (which is an ungoldy mess of at least half a dozen root-languages, dialects and slang) became an official language over the centuries. Cuz the language Chaucer wrote & spoke is NOT the English we speak today by any stretch.

I still wonder how much the language has to change before l can officially say I am speaking American.

SolCannibal · Unread post by **SolCannibal** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:03 am

Zer0 Kay wrote:
DhAkael wrote:Best example (in use) of Euro is in the game 'Warframe'; specifically the Grineer.
The 'Blade Runner' city-speak is also a fine example as shown above.
So yeah, I actually CAN see it as a primary language, sorta like how English (which is an ungoldy mess of at least half a dozen root-languages, dialects and slang) became an official language over the centuries. Cuz the language Chaucer wrote & spoke is NOT the English we speak today by any stretch.

I still wonder how much the language has to change before l can officially say I am speaking American.

A big enough group of people speaking the dialect start calling it so - sort of like ebonics, but with more time and less drama i guess.

As an aside, i think one of the most surreally awesome things i have seen in a comic book was a character in a series of Gamera, a pasty-white space elf lady that spoke in ebonics because it was the earth idiom closest to her own her starship's translator could find. And the sight of a goth vulcan chick speaking like Dolemite is something that has to be seen to be believed. :lol:

Svartalf · Unread post by **Svartalf** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:03 am

Zer0 Kay wrote:
H.P. Hovercraft wrote:Yeah, this language never really made a lot of sense to me, especially as later WB's came out. Then Euro's root languages made even less sense.

I'd imagine that in England, they still speak English. In Russia, Russian........and so on.

However, I could see a Euro language that consisted of French, Spanish, German and even English all mixing together seeing as they all have one common original root language. THIS version of Euro I could see as the dominant language of much of Europe (as poorly as much of Europe is defined; although I still see German as being the main tongue in the NGR).

.........................still not sure why Russian was ever thrown into the original mix.

Um... English is Anglish which was Germanic Which is Indo-European
French is an Oïl language which > Gallo-romance > western romance > romance > itallic > Indo-european
Spanish > Castillian > west Iberian > Ibero-romance > western romance
Russian > Slavic > Indo-European

Spanish and French share the romance but English is Germanic and the first time they see relation besides a few words which would be like claiming that Japanese is a romance language because of terrabee and rageo. So if Indo-European is the "shared" root then Russian shares it too.

Actually, French, despite being officially classified as a Romance language, is half Germanic and has many Frankish and Norman elements

glitterboy2098 · Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:44 am

H.P. Hovercraft wrote:.........................still not sure why Russian was ever thrown into the original mix.

because even in the old RMB, Germany, Poland, and Russia were established as the three big surviving groups in europe. though only germany got a mention of what polity existed for them.

and with a brief bit of googling, i've found something that might help GM's: a real world example of a hybrid russian/german written language, that started in 1990.
it apparently grew out of the soviet union collapsing, and a lot of russian speakers moving to germany. toss in some polish (which being geographically between the two regions and having a lot of people who speak/read all three languages) and you've basically got something close to euro in written form.. and applying the same rough rules to the spoken languages would get you most of the way.

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:57 am

Svartalf wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
H.P. Hovercraft wrote:Yeah, this language never really made a lot of sense to me, especially as later WB's came out. Then Euro's root languages made even less sense.

I'd imagine that in England, they still speak English. In Russia, Russian........and so on.

However, I could see a Euro language that consisted of French, Spanish, German and even English all mixing together seeing as they all have one common original root language. THIS version of Euro I could see as the dominant language of much of Europe (as poorly as much of Europe is defined; although I still see German as being the main tongue in the NGR).

.........................still not sure why Russian was ever thrown into the original mix.

Um... English is Anglish which was Germanic Which is Indo-European
French is an Oïl language which > Gallo-romance > western romance > romance > itallic > Indo-european
Spanish > Castillian > west Iberian > Ibero-romance > western romance
Russian > Slavic > Indo-European

Spanish and French share the romance but English is Germanic and the first time they see relation besides a few words which would be like claiming that Japanese is a romance language because of terrabee and rageo. So if Indo-European is the "shared" root then Russian shares it too.

Actually, French, despite being officially classified as a Romance language, is half Germanic and has many Frankish and Norman elements

The Oïl was influenced by the conquering Germanic tribes, mostly the Franks and was the language of the Anglo-Normans.

So it is more like a language developed from another language and then influenced by having another dialect of the language folded back into it. Already sounds like Euro.

SolCannibal · Unread post by **SolCannibal** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:44 pm

As an aside, i sometimes have something of a nagging suspicion that American might actually be a little closer to this than that. Anyone else ever considered that?

glitterboy2098 · Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:48 pm

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
H.P. Hovercraft wrote:Yeah, this language never really made a lot of sense to me, especially as later WB's came out. Then Euro's root languages made even less sense.

I'd imagine that in England, they still speak English. In Russia, Russian........and so on.

However, I could see a Euro language that consisted of French, Spanish, German and even English all mixing together seeing as they all have one common original root language. THIS version of Euro I could see as the dominant language of much of Europe (as poorly as much of Europe is defined; although I still see German as being the main tongue in the NGR).

.........................still not sure why Russian was ever thrown into the original mix.

Um... English is Anglish which was Germanic Which is Indo-European
French is an Oïl language which > Gallo-romance > western romance > romance > itallic > Indo-european
Spanish > Castillian > west Iberian > Ibero-romance > western romance
Russian > Slavic > Indo-European

Spanish and French share the romance but English is Germanic and the first time they see relation besides a few words which would be like claiming that Japanese is a romance language because of terrabee and rageo. So if Indo-European is the "shared" root then Russian shares it too.

Actually, French, despite being officially classified as a Romance language, is half Germanic and has many Frankish and Norman elements

The Oïl was influenced by the conquering Germanic tribes, mostly the Franks and was the language of the Anglo-Normans.

So it is more like a language developed from another language and then influenced by having another dialect of the language folded back into it. Already sounds like Euro.

english is Anglo-saxon (a mix of Germanic and Celtic tongues) being blended with frankish as spoken by a bunch of people descended from Norsemen. as the joke goes, english is the result of norman soldiers trying to use local language to woo anglo-saxon maids into their beds, and the result is about as legitimate..

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:33 pm

SolCannibal wrote:As an aside, i sometimes have something of a nagging suspicion that American might actually be a little closer to this than that. Anyone else ever considered that?

If the political correctness continues to drive out common sense and any form of national culture, it will be anything but English. As English will be deemed racist.

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:35 pm

glitterboy2098 wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
H.P. Hovercraft wrote:Yeah, this language never really made a lot of sense to me, especially as later WB's came out. Then Euro's root languages made even less sense.

I'd imagine that in England, they still speak English. In Russia, Russian........and so on.

However, I could see a Euro language that consisted of French, Spanish, German and even English all mixing together seeing as they all have one common original root language. THIS version of Euro I could see as the dominant language of much of Europe (as poorly as much of Europe is defined; although I still see German as being the main tongue in the NGR).

.........................still not sure why Russian was ever thrown into the original mix.

Um... English is Anglish which was Germanic Which is Indo-European
French is an Oïl language which > Gallo-romance > western romance > romance > itallic > Indo-european
Spanish > Castillian > west Iberian > Ibero-romance > western romance
Russian > Slavic > Indo-European

Spanish and French share the romance but English is Germanic and the first time they see relation besides a few words which would be like claiming that Japanese is a romance language because of terrabee and rageo. So if Indo-European is the "shared" root then Russian shares it too.

Actually, French, despite being officially classified as a Romance language, is half Germanic and has many Frankish and Norman elements

The Oïl was influenced by the conquering Germanic tribes, mostly the Franks and was the language of the Anglo-Normans.

So it is more like a language developed from another language and then influenced by having another dialect of the language folded back into it. Already sounds like Euro.

english is Anglo-saxon (a mix of Germanic and Celtic tongues) being blended with frankish as spoken by a bunch of people descended from Norsemen. as the joke goes, english is the result of norman soldiers trying to use local language to woo anglo-saxon maids into their beds, and the result is about as legitimate..

Lol

I've read the very name is a mispronunciation of Anglish.

Wait so does that make Old English, ancient Euro?

Svartalf · Unread post by **Svartalf** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:30 am

Euro is mainly a mix of German and Slavic, without the Romance and Celtic elements of French and English.

Athos · Unread post by **Athos** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 4:56 pm

When I ran a European campaign, they spoke American in England, with local dialects of course, but still understandable to the North Americans. I had most of the local French peoples speaking French, while the educated spoke Euro. NGR and it's peoples spoke Euro. It worked for me. I like having local people speak a local dialect and then the educated/merchant classes speaking a more widely known language. But, whatever works best for you is what you should use.

SolCannibal · Unread post by **SolCannibal** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:48 am

Ah, a little something i came across recently that i thought some people might find of interest: http://www.lucasinfografia.com/Mother-tongues

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:38 am

When I run it, I have it sounding somewhat like Nadsat.

SolCannibal · Unread post by **SolCannibal** » Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:58 am

Mark Hall wrote:When I run it, I have it sounding somewhat like Nadsat.

Would not have thought of that and it does make a bunch of sense.

I'm thinking of tweaking things a little with the NGR, Tarnow and the Warlords territories - make most people bilingual, speaking both Euro and their country's official language, proficiency with the later varying with distance from major urban/education centers, specially in the case of literacy. It should make more of a difference with the warlords per se (as most of them don't have public education high in their list of priorities, i think) and there's enough wiggle room in the fluff that it might not even be a break from canon.

Writen euro exists, its use would be commonplace both in a number of minor kingdoms/city-states and as a diplomacy/trade language (as it has been for a century or two at least) and is roughly divided between West Euro (based on the latin alphabet), the standard form west of Tarnow, East Euro (based on Cyrillic alphabet), more common in the warlord territories and some places hugging the Black Sea and the much less common South Euro (based on the arabic script), used by some coastal populations in both sides of the mediterranean.

His Dudeness · Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:06 pm

SolCannibal wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:I've always seen Euro as a sort of Trade or 'Common" Language in Europe, probably because of the EU, with each culture retaining it's cultural language. I imagine it's orgins stem from before the time of the rifts, and since it's evolved. Just my thoughts though.

Likely, but I can't see it supplanting real German in the NGR or real Russian in Russia

That said the century or two of general breakdown of all states before things became a little more manageable and a post-apocalyptic set-up stabilized would be the perfect melting pot for such a mishmash of vocabularies to effectively grow and consolidate itself into an actual language. The key is not the NGR or the "Russian" territories (one of whom is actually Ukraine) per se, but the "masses" of city-states, small fixed or nomadic communities and fledgling & ephemeral minor nations that spread throughout Europe trying to comunicate with each other.

This is essentially wha happened after the Roman Empire broke up. The locals stopped using Latin as their primary language and started reverting to the local languages, reserving Latin for religious and likely trade purposes. The same could be said of Arabic today. Many provinces in Afghanistan speak their own languages, but use Arabic when they pray or need to talk to a fellow Muslims who don't speak the same local language.

Although, this Euro language is more like Hawaiian or the Romani Language, than anything else.

FrankSerpico · Unread post by **FrankSerpico** » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:17 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Euro and American had a lot of similarities. With English being the closest thing to an international language seemingly well into the 21st century on Rifts Earth, (near as I can tell from the China books, China experienced the same economic boom they did on our Earth, but they didn't seem to engage in the same sort of quest for hegemony so many world powers before them did) it would make sense to have more than a few English/American coloquialisms in there at the very least.

Kagashi · Unread post by **Kagashi** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:25 am

Euro is just the common language of Europe. Its not a cosmic concept.

Library Ogre · Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:55 am

Kagashi wrote:Euro is just the common language of Europe. Its not a cosmic concept.

I disagree. Euro is clearly intended to be an alignment language.

[sub]:D[/sub]

Kagashi · Unread post by **Kagashi** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:07 pm

Mark Hall wrote:
Kagashi wrote:Euro is just the common language of Europe. Its not a cosmic concept.

I disagree. Euro is clearly intended to be an alignment language.

[sub]:D[/sub]

Source? Casue all RUE says is it widely spoken across Europe.

or is that a D&D joke (have not played that since 2nd edition over 20 years ago)?

SolCannibal · Unread post by **SolCannibal** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:39 pm

Kagashi wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:
Kagashi wrote:Euro is just the common language of Europe. Its not a cosmic concept.

I disagree. Euro is clearly intended to be an alignment language.

[sub]:D[/sub]

Source? Casue all RUE says is it widely spoken across Europe.

or is that a D&D joke (have not played that since 2nd edition over 20 years ago)?

Most probably the later, considering early D&D is the only place i remember even reading about alignment languages.

Zer0 Kay · Unread post by **Zer0 Kay** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:08 pm

His Dudeness wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:I've always seen Euro as a sort of Trade or 'Common" Language in Europe, probably because of the EU, with each culture retaining it's cultural language. I imagine it's orgins stem from before the time of the rifts, and since it's evolved. Just my thoughts though.

Likely, but I can't see it supplanting real German in the NGR or real Russian in Russia

That said the century or two of general breakdown of all states before things became a little more manageable and a post-apocalyptic set-up stabilized would be the perfect melting pot for such a mishmash of vocabularies to effectively grow and consolidate itself into an actual language. The key is not the NGR or the "Russian" territories (one of whom is actually Ukraine) per se, but the "masses" of city-states, small fixed or nomadic communities and fledgling & ephemeral minor nations that spread throughout Europe trying to comunicate with each other.

This is essentially wha happened after the Roman Empire broke up. The locals stopped using Latin as their primary language and started reverting to the local languages, reserving Latin for religious and likely trade purposes. The same could be said of Arabic today. Many provinces in Afghanistan speak their own languages, but use Arabic when they pray or need to talk to a fellow Muslims who don't speak the same local language.

Although, this Euro language is more like Hawaiian or the Romani Language, than anything else.

Which Hawaiian are you talking about?
Do you mean the one that uses phrases like brah, brahda, dakine, broke da mouth, or kay den
Or phrases like Mahalo, Aloha ahiahi, Mahalo nui loa na ho'olaule'a me la kaua?

If you think thuh first phrases are Hawaiian. Then you must think these sentences should be ya know, like, called English.

If your talking about the second set of phrases then your right. The first is Hawaiian pidgin and though it uses some Hawaiian words it is mostly comprised of English words with a thick Hawaiian accent heavily slathered over the top. Like an American learning just enough of a foreign language where the other person can understand them but probably make jokes about their phrasing behind their back.

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:49 pm

Kagashi wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:
Kagashi wrote:Euro is just the common language of Europe. Its not a cosmic concept.

I disagree. Euro is clearly intended to be an alignment language.

[sub]:D[/sub]

Source? Casue all RUE says is it widely spoken across Europe.

or is that a D&D joke (have not played that since 2nd edition over 20 years ago)?

Page 62 of Australia 2. ;-)

Kagashi · Unread post by **Kagashi** » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:31 pm

Mark Hall wrote:
Kagashi wrote:
Mark Hall wrote:
Kagashi wrote:Euro is just the common language of Europe. Its not a cosmic concept.

I disagree. Euro is clearly intended to be an alignment language.

[sub]:D[/sub]

Source? Casue all RUE says is it widely spoken across Europe.

or is that a D&D joke (have not played that since 2nd edition over 20 years ago)?

Page 62 of Australia 2.

Now you are just toying with me

Library Ogre · Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:52 pm

Kagashi wrote:
Now you are just toying with me

*bat*bat*

His Dudeness · Unread post by **His Dudeness** » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:24 pm

Zer0 Kay wrote:
His Dudeness wrote:
SolCannibal wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Ravenwing wrote:I've always seen Euro as a sort of Trade or 'Common" Language in Europe, probably because of the EU, with each culture retaining it's cultural language. I imagine it's orgins stem from before the time of the rifts, and since it's evolved. Just my thoughts though.

Likely, but I can't see it supplanting real German in the NGR or real Russian in Russia

That said the century or two of general breakdown of all states before things became a little more manageable and a post-apocalyptic set-up stabilized would be the perfect melting pot for such a mishmash of vocabularies to effectively grow and consolidate itself into an actual language. The key is not the NGR or the "Russian" territories (one of whom is actually Ukraine) per se, but the "masses" of city-states, small fixed or nomadic communities and fledgling & ephemeral minor nations that spread throughout Europe trying to comunicate with each other.

This is essentially wha happened after the Roman Empire broke up. The locals stopped using Latin as their primary language and started reverting to the local languages, reserving Latin for religious and likely trade purposes. The same could be said of Arabic today. Many provinces in Afghanistan speak their own languages, but use Arabic when they pray or need to talk to a fellow Muslims who don't speak the same local language.

Although, this Euro language is more like Hawaiian or the Romani Language, than anything else.

Which Hawaiian are you talking about?
Do you mean the one that uses phrases like brah, brahda, dakine, broke da mouth, or kay den
Or phrases like Mahalo, Aloha ahiahi, Mahalo nui loa na ho'olaule'a me la kaua?

If you think thuh first phrases are Hawaiian. Then you must think these sentences should be ya know, like, called English.

If your talking about the second set of phrases then your right. The first is Hawaiian pidgin and though it uses some Hawaiian words it is mostly comprised of English words with a thick Hawaiian accent heavily slathered over the top. Like an American learning just enough of a foreign language where the other person can understand them but probably make jokes about their phrasing behind their back.

I was referring to the second, which is also called Hawaiian Pidgin. The first is just English with a few local pidgin words added for slang. Similar to when Cajuns speak English or French, but will pepper their speech with Creole or Cajun French. Both Creole and Cajun French themselves could be seen as similar to Euro.