Suppose You Survive the World Tree

[Tor]

Your GM betrayed the law, you were wronged sir.

So how did you manage to survive a week's worth of blood-loss?

[GM Jay]

Your GM betrayed the law, you were wronged sir.

So how did you manage to survive a week's worth of blood-loss?

With saves vs comma/death.

[42dragon]

Saves vs. coma/death don't stop bleeding. As long as you are bleeding you keep taking damage and that has to be stopped (or you still have to be above 0) before you can even try to save vs. coma/death.

Even with just one sword wound to pin you to the tree you are losing 1 HP/SDC/MDC every minute. For nine days that means you will lose 12,960 HP/SDC/MDC without some sort of good bio-regeneration. Once your HP/MDC is reduced to negative below your PE you are dead, there is no save vs. coma/death at that point.

[Nightmask]

Saves vs. coma/death don't stop bleeding. As long as you are bleeding you keep taking damage and that has to be stopped (or you still have to be above 0) before you can even try to save vs. coma/death.

Even with just one sword wound to pin you to the tree you are losing 1 HP/SDC/MDC every minute. For nine days that means you will lose 12,960 HP/SDC/MDC without some sort of good bio-regeneration. Once your HP/MDC is reduced to negative below your PE you are dead, there is no save vs. coma/death at that point.

You can have thing stabbed into you and not bleed out, or even bleed much at all, previous discussion on the ritual tended to cover as worded that the ritual or tree itself keeps you alive for that time before you make that save at the end while negating anything you might use to make it easy (like having no need to eat or drink and bio-regeneration).

[42dragon]

Ok, that is one way to look at it. I would look at it the other way: First you would have to gain access to the tree. Second be able to survive the whole damage, bleeding out, lack of food and water (and hoping the Midgard Serpent doesn't find and eat you). Then finally make your saves. If the tree and ritual just automatically keep you alive that makes the whole process at least 1/3 easier. For the amount of power one could potentially get from the tree, I would make it as difficult as possible.

Hence why as far as known entities go, only Odin is documented as completing the ritual (and he was desperate to try it in the first place). Gods with high PE scores and the ability to be ressurected by their pantheons should be lined up trying for all this extra power. And the sheer number of mortals (even in Valhalla, Asguardian Dwarves, Elves, and Valkyries) odds are there would be many who would have completed the ritual, just by the numbers if they are automatically kept alive during the ritual.

[Nightmask]

Ok, that is one way to look at it. I would look at it the other way: First you would have to gain access to the tree. Second be able to survive the whole damage, bleeding out, lack of food and water (and hoping the Midgard Serpent doesn't find and eat you). Then finally make your saves. If the tree and ritual just automatically keep you alive that makes the whole process at least 1/3 easier. For the amount of power one could potentially get from the tree, I would make it as difficult as possible.

Hence why as far as known entities go, only Odin is documented as completing the ritual (and he was desperate to try it in the first place). Gods with high PE scores and the ability to be ressurected by their pantheons should be lined up trying for all this extra power. And the sheer number of mortals (even in Valhalla, Asguardian Dwarves, Elves, and Valkyries) odds are there would be many who would have completed the ritual, just by the numbers if they are automatically kept alive during the ritual.

I doubt the Midgard Serpent would be taking it so lightly with a line of people waiting to try the ritual out, and again if the tree DIDN'T keep you alive while simultaneously negating effects that would make it a cake-walk no one would survive to the end if everyone was reduced to having to survive 9 days without water like a mortal human. I'm not sure but I think there was a note that if you can somehow be raised after failing and dying you come back with some measure of insanity or penalty, if not well obviously there should be and why would all those people be lining up for something that for one few should even know is possible and for another much of it when you're immortal you could eventually learn over time. It's a shortcut you only take in extremes or because you're on the lazy path to power and don't care about the risks and most immortals tend to be far more afraid of dying than mortals who're used to the idea of death since again being mortal they normally live with that fear whereas to gods it's practically unheard of.

[Smooth Operator]

Wait, being impaled on the tree cancels sustain and prevents blood from clotting?

[Nightmask]

Wait, being impaled on the tree cancels sustain and prevents blood from clotting?

Where did anyone say it prevented blood from clotting? It's a grueling ritual that a god with impressive regenerative abilities and no need to eat, drink, or breathe nearly died from so obviously the tree must be preventing any cheat methods from working and really why would anyone think such a ritual would be a cakewalk that all you needed is a sustain spell to pull off? If it were that easy everyone who knew about the tree and could get past its defenses would be found hanging all over it to pick up the boons it grants or already in possession of the bonuses but to date all we know is that Odin risked it and won but that no on else either has or if they have they didn't survive to gain it.

[Smooth Operator]

Wait, being impaled on the tree cancels sustain and prevents blood from clotting?

Where did anyone say it prevented blood from clotting? It's a grueling ritual that a god with impressive regenerative abilities and no need to eat, drink, or breathe nearly died from so obviously the tree must be preventing any cheat methods from working and really why would anyone think such a ritual would be a cakewalk that all you needed is a sustain spell to pull off? If it were that easy everyone who knew about the tree and could get past its defenses would be found hanging all over it to pick up the boons it grants or already in possession of the bonuses but to date all we know is that Odin risked it and won but that no on else either has or if they have they didn't survive to gain it.

42dragon's post where he talked about bleeding out and needing to survive the lack of food and water is where I got that. You even quoted the post I'm talking about. The book says exactly what you need to do to survive it. People on this forum are trying to tack on additional complications that aren't stated to be outside the scope of the save you make at the end. I'm saying the save at the end is all-inclusive. If someone wants to tack on additional limitations, then the standard means for circumventing those limitations should be allowed.

[eliakon]

Wait, being impaled on the tree cancels sustain and prevents blood from clotting?

Where did anyone say it prevented blood from clotting? It's a grueling ritual that a god with impressive regenerative abilities and no need to eat, drink, or breathe nearly died from so obviously the tree must be preventing any cheat methods from working and really why would anyone think such a ritual would be a cakewalk that all you needed is a sustain spell to pull off? If it were that easy everyone who knew about the tree and could get past its defenses would be found hanging all over it to pick up the boons it grants or already in possession of the bonuses but to date all we know is that Odin risked it and won but that no on else either has or if they have they didn't survive to gain it.

42dragon's post where he talked about bleeding out and needing to survive the lack of food and water is where I got that. You even quoted the post I'm talking about. The book says exactly what you need to do to survive it. People on this forum are trying to tack on additional complications that aren't stated to be outside the scope of the save you make at the end. I'm saying the save at the end is all-inclusive. If someone wants to tack on additional limitations, then the standard means for circumventing those limitations should be allowed.

Actually I would say that its....neither.
The ritual, as laid out, is the bare minimum. You must do X to get Y.
Odin obviously has no need to worry about food, or bleeding, or such complications.....a human would. The ritual itself does not say that it removes these needs so I don't see any reason to assume that they are removed. However it also doesn't say that you have to worry about them either... Your in deep GMs call territory here. Which shouldn't be surprising. I mean your trying to emulate one of the primal deific feats of the Norse mythos don't expect it to be 'roll three dice and tell me what you get'

[Tor]

how did you manage to survive a week's worth of blood-loss?

With saves vs comma/death.

Since when does that stop blood-loss? That has to be done independently from stabilizing the coma patient, far as I know.

You're looking at losing at least 60 HP per minute or 1440 HP a day being impaled on that thing.

You essentially either need bio-regeneration abilities or a friendly mage or psi-healer tending to you throughout the process to survive this.

Since you have to remain impaled you can't stop up the wound, the bleeding can't be stopped, far as I know.

Unless of course you're a non-bleeding species, that's one out. Or maybe if it was some kind of flaming magic weapon then it might cauterize the wound.

Wait, being impaled on the tree cancels sustain and prevents blood from clotting?

Sustain might still work, but far as I know Palladium doesn't have any rules on blood-clotting, just that bleeding stops if you bandage the wound or something along those lines.

I also presume anyone healed via bio-regen/magic/psi/etc. will stop bleeding if restored to full life, or at least however much the stabby attack inflicted.

It's a grueling ritual that a god with impressive regenerative abilities and no need to eat, drink, or breathe nearly died from
so obviously the tree must be preventing any cheat methods from working

We don't know how powerful Odin actually was when he did the ritual, his stats could've been way lower.

why would anyone think such a ritual would be a cakewalk that all you needed is a sustain spell to pull off?

Nobody is saying that, you also need a way to survive being impaled and a coma.

If it were that easy everyone who knew about the tree and could get past its defenses would be found hanging all over it to pick up the boons it grants

Yes, which doesn't much matter because I don't think too many people know about it, and those that do know there's a Serpent who can 1-hit the vast majority of things with a bite, and for those who survive, they can't heal at all, so they will begin to bleed to death from the bite.

all we know is that Odin risked it and won but that no on else either has or if they have they didn't survive to gain it.

We do not know that no-one else has. Where is that stated? We simply may not be informed about others who succeeded in doing the ritual.

The book says exactly what you need to do to survive it. People on this forum are trying to tack on additional complications that aren't stated to be outside the scope of the save you make at the end. I'm saying the save at the end is all-inclusive.

It isn't, Pantheons doesn't say anything about ignoring standard blood-loss rules.

If someone wants to tack on additional limitations, then the standard means for circumventing those limitations should be allowed.

Agree with you here though, it doesn't say anything about the tree preventing these tactics, that's merely based on Odin-speculation. For all we know the reason Odin had a hard time was the Midgard serpent was biting him for the lulz every day.