Mages and WPs

[Mack]

Was thinking about Mages a few days ago and my assumption that most would spend one of their few skills on a ranged WP, and that the default would be WP Energy Rifle. But as I thought about it, I got to thinking that perhaps WP Energy Pistol makes more sense.

From an in-game perspective, lugging a rifle around is kind of a pain. Especially for someone who's main focus isn't using one. Carrying a pistol is much more convenient, and easier to live with. And there's several good rifle substitutes (Wilk's 237 for 6D6, or NG-45LP for 5D6 leap to mind). So you can still get decent damage without the rifle.

From a "what's my job" perspective, an employer doesn't hire a mage to be a trigger-puller. He hires a mage to whip out the magical mumbo-jumbo... shooting stuff is secondary.

There might also be a bit of pride involved: "No, I don't carry one of those things. I'm a mage. Those are for people who can't do what I do."

Finally, per RUE p189, "Hand gestures are also usually part of the spell casting process that helps focus and direct the mystic energy." So one could argue that holding a rifle would interfere with the process. Regardless, we can agree that a mage would probably be more comfortable if his hands were free.

Now, I don't mean to imply that all mages would eschew rifles, just that it may be more likely for them to prefer pistols.

So put yourself into a young mage's boots for a minute. You've got precious little time to spend learning "normal" skills ('cuz magic is way more awesome). What would you invest in?

[kaid]

The mages I have played usually pick up energy rifle mainly due to the one thing most mages lack is long range capability. If you are close enough to use a pistol you are in combat magic range which probably hits as hard or harder than all but a few outlier pistols like the particle beam ones.

[Mlp7029]

The mages I have played usually pick up energy rifle mainly due to the one thing most mages lack is long range capability. If you are close enough to use a pistol you are in combat magic range which probably hits as hard or harder than all but a few outlier pistols like the particle beam ones.

I agree. Remember WP Energy Rifle can be taken as a secondary skill.

[Shark_Force]

i'm actually quite fond of targeting. there are a few spells that explicitly use it, and a few more that also might use it

i'm also quite fond of picking up a skill to use a conventional firearm of some form.

but given a choice between energy pistol and energy rifle, i tend to choose rifle. rifle does a better job of covering the typical magic-user "blind spots" of damage, endurance, and range.

[Tor]

If I were a mage or psychic I'd be using TW gear to save on e-clip costs, and since the RMB rules for converting don't distinguish between pistol or rifle, the payload/damage advantages of rifles get negated so range becomes the remaining reason to use one, which is a bit less attractive, so I'd probably favour a TW-converted wilk's pistol or something.

[drewkitty ~..~]

In the PB gaming system somatic components are "window dressing" to invocations.

But when I give a mage of mine a tech weapon it is usually a pistol of some sort.

Any rifle they might have is for after they have run out of PPE.

[Tor]

The fun thing about Underseas is that while verbal casting was sped up in RUE, the non-verbal casting rules in Underseas are unchanged, so what was once only a little bit longer to do (wasn't it something like 3 actions instead of 2 to cast low level ones? or 50% more) now it's triple as long (200% more) ?

[flatline]

Most Rifts E. Pistols are 4+ pounds and almost as big as the rifles are. What's the point? They use the same expensive e-clips, but get fewer shots, have less range, and do less damage. Most regular people can't even hold a 4lb pistol for very long with both hands and keep it steady. It's like holding a half gallon of milk at arm's length!

E. Rifle is my choice if I can only choose one. My mages aren't typically strong enough to hold a 4lb pistol for very long. A 6lb rifle has a stock and is way more comfortable to use.

I'm also fond of Automatic Pistol (smaller, lighter, and great candidates for TK conversion), Shotgun (the most generically useful weapon ever made due to the wide variety of ammunition available for it) and, if I have a spare slot, either Sword or Targeting.

--flatline

[flatline]

The fun thing about Underseas is that while verbal casting was sped up in RUE, the non-verbal casting rules in Underseas are unchanged, so what was once only a little bit longer to do (wasn't it something like 3 actions instead of 2 to cast low level ones? or 50% more) now it's triple as long (200% more) ?

I thought the rules for tacit casting was "twice as long". So if, thanks to RUE, it takes 1 action to cast something, then wouldn't it take 2 actions to cast it tacitly?

--flatline

[ShadowLogan]

I think its going to come down to preference for the most part and where/when the mage expects to engage in ranged combat. The Mage also doesn't need the WP to use a given weapon type, only to be proficient with it's use, so could still carry around examples of weapons they aren't proficient with.

Somethings to keep in mind:
-is that you can probably repackage technology into a more "traditional" wand or staff type arrangement. So they can keep up appearances.
-rifles traditionally have slings (not saying something similar for pistols can't exist, but likely requires extra), so depending on how the mage carries the rifle they could "drop" it and the sling can keep it in a ready/accessible position where a pistol would require holstering (without paying extra). This would be useful for the gesture aspect of spell casting, it also runs counter to the previous point unless wand/staff use can be worked into the gestures (but then why couldn't you do it with regular items).

[Slight001]

My favorite tech weapon for my mages are wrist/forearm guns. Most GMs I've ran with have allowed pistols to be modified into wrist mounts. I had a lot of fun with a Talus Battle Magus with wrist mounted NE pistols with belt feed ammo...

[Athos]

I prefer a smg for my mage. When they get enchant weapon, they can make magical bullets, until then they can use ramjets. Silver bullets are great for a lot of supernatural baddies and it's always handy to have a sd weapon for cities and stuff where md might not be allowed. Plus, very few players go with smg's so it sets my guy apart a little.

[Secondhand Smoke]

I quite like using one of the sniper rifles from the merc book. I think it was the folding one or depending on strength the long long ranged one. As a side weapon a TW nuhr dwarf pistol. It has to be said I like making nuhr dwarf mages.

[Killer Cyborg]

My mages tend to use whatever fits the situation, but the main mage character I played did use paired e-pistols to good effect.

[Nox Equites]

Techno-wizards should have the E-rifle and E-pistol at a minimum if they do any actual adventuring. Heavy weapons are an option for the dream big TW.

[Alrik Vas]

The TW in our group has a modded TW chainsaw turned into a chainsword (no limb hacking penalties as long as it's wielded with SN str in 2 hands), an Ice Revolver (for making opponents lose APM) and a Demon Shotgun (I think for damage + HF...)

And he's proficient in all of them. He pretty much kicks butt.

He's also proficient with rail guns and rocket launchers.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I don't typically play mages, but if I were going to and had to pick pistol vs rifle, I'd likely choose rifle.

As someone pointed out above, Rifles (Typically) Have better range and better damage. Sure there's a few pistols that can keep up with damage but they're not super common (In compairison.) our GM jack up thep rices on 'Rifle powered pistols" because..... well so would people selling them, and again, the range usually factors in.

if you have to pick one or the other, I choose the one that can reach out and touch people a bit better.

Yes mages need the hand gesture to cast, but that's simply solved by clicking a 3 point harness onto the rifle. Carry it. If you need to cast just let it go. it falls down to the 3 point harness infront of you. Cast your spell then scoop the rifle up and keep going.

http://www.gearsector.com/img/misc/group1.jpg

Don't get me wrong, I like the suped up pistols. If the GM allows them (Some GM are more strict or restrictive with gear. You never know) I like them.

But yeah. Give me a rifle.

[eliakon]

Why do people keep talking about hand gestures to cast spells here? This isn't AD&D 2e. You just have to be able to speak audibly to cast magic in palladium (Unless the rules from Underseas are in play).
If I just get one W.P. I tend to take energy rifle (though some times I take pistol for my less combat oriented mages). They tend to be lightweight, common, have good range, decent damage, and there are a wide variety of kinds to choose from.
If I get a second W.P. it is often a physical bullet type weapons (pistol, rifle, shot gun, what ever). This is useful for having a wide rage of ammo types to cover the other eventualities that come up (silver, iron, enchanted, wood, what ever)

[Killer Cyborg]

Mages don't HAVE to use hand gestures... But as a rule, they do.

[Lenwen]

Why do people keep talking about hand gestures to cast spells here? This isn't AD&D 2e. You just have to be able to speak audibly to cast magic in palladium (Unless the rules from Underseas are in play).

Valid question, As is the whole "thats not common" does not apply to the player characters of any game system .. They are not lumped into the whole catagory of "nobody has this item" due to they are the exception the world's mechanic's / info is based off of ..

Does that makes sense ? (if not allow me to go a bit deeper)

Sayings like the following ..

Mystic's also seem attracted to motorcycles, dune buggies, and ground hover vehicles.

This statement while it may hold true for the vast majority of mystic's that are not the actual player character's holds absolutely no water, when speaking specifically about the player character mystic to whom your GM'ing.

The exact same thing, can be said about any mage of any class, (thats a player character) in your games. (This brings us back to the weapons and mages issue as it stands)
The fact that MOST people on this forum who play's mages actually can / do pick up armors and guns (various types / styles..) does not mean they represent the majority of that class but they are in fact thee "exception" to that class and generally not .. the Rule of it ..

Does this make any sense, Because THATS .. how I personally view it .

[Secondhand Smoke]

The TW in our group has a modded TW chainsaw turned into a chainsword (no limb hacking penalties as long as it's wielded with SN str in 2 hands), an Ice Revolver (for making opponents lose APM) and a Demon Shotgun (I think for damage + HF...)

And he's proficient in all of them. He pretty much kicks butt.

He's also proficient with rail guns and rocket launchers.

Chainsaw swords are a big yes in my book!!

I'm surprised not many of you do not take up sniping, death aura, chameleon or shadowmeld and then invisibility. Find a good spot, get yourself lying flat and then take aim and let loose!!!

[Shark_Force]

Why do people keep talking about hand gestures to cast spells here? This isn't AD&D 2e. You just have to be able to speak audibly to cast magic in palladium (Unless the rules from Underseas are in play).

Valid question, As is the whole "thats not common" does not apply to the player characters of any game system .. They are not lumped into the whole catagory of "nobody has this item" due to they are the exception the world's mechanic's / info is based off of ..

Does that makes sense ? (if not allow me to go a bit deeper)

Sayings like the following ..

Mystic's also seem attracted to motorcycles, dune buggies, and ground hover vehicles.

This statement while it may hold true for the vast majority of mystic's that are not the actual player character's holds absolutely no water, when speaking specifically about the player character mystic to whom your GM'ing.

The exact same thing, can be said about any mage of any class, (thats a player character) in your games. (This brings us back to the weapons and mages issue as it stands)
The fact that MOST people on this forum who play's mages actually can / do pick up armors and guns (various types / styles..) does not mean they represent the majority of that class but they are in fact thee "exception" to that class and generally not .. the Rule of it ..

Does this make any sense, Because THATS .. how I personally view it .

matter of perspective I guess. almost every mage OCC comes with tech-based armour and energy weapons of some form (plus often other tech equipment, like medical nanobots or computers or tape recorders etc), and WPs for modern weapons. the ones that don't come with those things tend to be the few that come with magical equivalents.

[flatline]

The TW in our group has a modded TW chainsaw turned into a chainsword (no limb hacking penalties as long as it's wielded with SN str in 2 hands), an Ice Revolver (for making opponents lose APM) and a Demon Shotgun (I think for damage + HF...)

And he's proficient in all of them. He pretty much kicks butt.

He's also proficient with rail guns and rocket launchers.

Chainsaw swords are a big yes in my book!!

I'm surprised not many of you do not take up sniping, death aura, chameleon or shadowmeld and then invisibility. Find a good spot, get yourself lying flat and then take aim and let loose!!!

I'm a big fan of Chameleon and Shadowmeld, but don't care much for Death Aura.

--flatline

[kaid]

The TW in our group has a modded TW chainsaw turned into a chainsword (no limb hacking penalties as long as it's wielded with SN str in 2 hands), an Ice Revolver (for making opponents lose APM) and a Demon Shotgun (I think for damage + HF...)

And he's proficient in all of them. He pretty much kicks butt.

He's also proficient with rail guns and rocket launchers.

Chainsaw swords are a big yes in my book!!

I'm surprised not many of you do not take up sniping, death aura, chameleon or shadowmeld and then invisibility. Find a good spot, get yourself lying flat and then take aim and let loose!!!

That is one reason I loved NG2's thunderhound. Pretty bare bones armor but it has really sweet chainsword.

[kaid]

Why do people keep talking about hand gestures to cast spells here? This isn't AD&D 2e. You just have to be able to speak audibly to cast magic in palladium (Unless the rules from Underseas are in play).

Valid question, As is the whole "thats not common" does not apply to the player characters of any game system .. They are not lumped into the whole catagory of "nobody has this item" due to they are the exception the world's mechanic's / info is based off of ..

Does that makes sense ? (if not allow me to go a bit deeper)

Sayings like the following ..

Mystic's also seem attracted to motorcycles, dune buggies, and ground hover vehicles.

This statement while it may hold true for the vast majority of mystic's that are not the actual player character's holds absolutely no water, when speaking specifically about the player character mystic to whom your GM'ing.

The exact same thing, can be said about any mage of any class, (thats a player character) in your games. (This brings us back to the weapons and mages issue as it stands)
The fact that MOST people on this forum who play's mages actually can / do pick up armors and guns (various types / styles..) does not mean they represent the majority of that class but they are in fact thee "exception" to that class and generally not .. the Rule of it ..

Does this make any sense, Because THATS .. how I personally view it .

matter of perspective I guess. almost every mage OCC comes with tech-based armour and energy weapons of some form (plus often other tech equipment, like medical nanobots or computers or tape recorders etc), and WPs for modern weapons. the ones that don't come with those things tend to be the few that come with magical equivalents.

Yup about the only mages that don't start with some tech weapons and other items that I can think of are things like native american shaman and biomancers both who get their versions of the same kinds of items.

[eliakon]

Mages don't HAVE to use hand gestures... But as a rule, they do.

On what basis do you make that statement?
Is it just a 'my mages do'
Is it a "in my games mages do"
Or is there actually some text someplace that says that mages in palladium use hand gestures? Because there is ZERO in the magic section that suggests that gestures of any sort are used, or even relevant to most magic. Its fine for people to want to add that as a flavor IF THEY WANT. But that's not the same as a blanket revision of the world to fit some one's view of the 'proper flavor'

[flatline]

Mages don't HAVE to use hand gestures... But as a rule, they do.

I'm scratching my head on this one.

--flatline

[Lenwen]

Mages don't HAVE to use hand gestures... But as a rule, they do.

I'm scratching my head on this one.

--flatline

This would appear to be an opinion, as only thing in any books ever printed for Palladium dealing with "magic" only the undersea's makes you use hand gestures. Open air environment mages would not need to do such a thing.

If they did, then why are there "mute" spells for casters to cast on other casters, or Mouth / face harnesses in game specifically utilized for the single purpose of ensuring your mage slave can in fact not cast spells ?

[Dustin Fireblade]

Mages don't HAVE to use hand gestures... But as a rule, they do.

On what basis do you make that statement?
Is it just a 'my mages do'
Is it a "in my games mages do"
Or is there actually some text someplace that says that mages in palladium use hand gestures? Because there is ZERO in the magic section that suggests that gestures of any sort are used, or even relevant to most magic. Its fine for people to want to add that as a flavor IF THEY WANT. But that's not the same as a blanket revision of the world to fit some one's view of the 'proper flavor'

According to RUE page 189 under Step 6: Casting Spells -

Hand gestures are also usually part of the spell casting process and that helps focus and direct the mystic energy.

[Lenwen]

Mages don't HAVE to use hand gestures... But as a rule, they do.

On what basis do you make that statement?
Is it just a 'my mages do'
Is it a "in my games mages do"
Or is there actually some text someplace that says that mages in palladium use hand gestures? Because there is ZERO in the magic section that suggests that gestures of any sort are used, or even relevant to most magic. Its fine for people to want to add that as a flavor IF THEY WANT. But that's not the same as a blanket revision of the world to fit some one's view of the 'proper flavor'

According to RUE page 189 under Step 6: Casting Spells -

Hand gestures are also usually part of the spell casting process and that helps focus and direct the mystic energy.

Note, it does not say must be used .. or Always used as part of the spell casting process.

All it says is it helps focus an direct the mystic energy .. That is not the same thing as saying .. Hand gestures are always needed to be utilized in order to cast any spell the caster is attempting to cast.

Aka .. it helps, but its not "needed" to cast spells.

[Killer Cyborg]

Mages don't HAVE to use hand gestures... But as a rule, they do.

On what basis do you make that statement?
Is it just a 'my mages do'
Is it a "in my games mages do"
Or is there actually some text someplace that says that mages in palladium use hand gestures? Because there is ZERO in the magic section that suggests that gestures of any sort are used, or even relevant to most magic. Its fine for people to want to add that as a flavor IF THEY WANT. But that's not the same as a blanket revision of the world to fit some one's view of the 'proper flavor'

According to RUE page 189 under Step 6: Casting Spells -

Hand gestures are also usually part of the spell casting process and that helps focus and direct the mystic energy.

Note, it does not say must be used .. or Always used as part of the spell casting process.

Kind of like I already said, and you questioned.

[Lenwen]

Mages don't HAVE to use hand gestures... But as a rule, they do.

On what basis do you make that statement?
Is it just a 'my mages do'
Is it a "in my games mages do"
Or is there actually some text someplace that says that mages in palladium use hand gestures? Because there is ZERO in the magic section that suggests that gestures of any sort are used, or even relevant to most magic. Its fine for people to want to add that as a flavor IF THEY WANT. But that's not the same as a blanket revision of the world to fit some one's view of the 'proper flavor'

According to RUE page 189 under Step 6: Casting Spells -

Hand gestures are also usually part of the spell casting process and that helps focus and direct the mystic energy.

Note, it does not say must be used .. or Always used as part of the spell casting process.

Kind of like I already said, and you questioned.

You edit your post ? To reflect that after the fact ? Or perhaps I merely missed this bit of data.

[eliakon]

Mages don't HAVE to use hand gestures... But as a rule, they do.

On what basis do you make that statement?
Is it just a 'my mages do'
Is it a "in my games mages do"
Or is there actually some text someplace that says that mages in palladium use hand gestures? Because there is ZERO in the magic section that suggests that gestures of any sort are used, or even relevant to most magic. Its fine for people to want to add that as a flavor IF THEY WANT. But that's not the same as a blanket revision of the world to fit some one's view of the 'proper flavor'

According to RUE page 189 under Step 6: Casting Spells -

Hand gestures are also usually part of the spell casting process and that helps focus and direct the mystic energy.

Note, it does not say must be used .. or Always used as part of the spell casting process.

Kind of like I already said, and you questioned.

Okay, I stand corrected. I will admit it does appear that hand gestures do appear to be a common flavor component of the spells. (presumably to make it easier to focus stuff, throwing motions, what not). Presumably not critical enough to block casting like the vocal parts....but common a enough "habit" to be noteworthy.

[Killer Cyborg]

You edit your post ? To reflect that after the fact ? Or perhaps I merely missed this bit of data.

Believe it or not, I don't have the power to edit my own post, PLUS the posts of people who quoted me.
So it must be that other thing.

[StormSeeker]

Techno-wizards should have the E-rifle and E-pistol at a minimum if they do any actual adventuring. Heavy weapons are an option for the dream big TW.

WP handgun and WP rifle/shotgun

For my latest character, I decided to try a TW for the first time.
I chose for a starting weapon the TW Spitfire revolver.The Spitfire, while lacking in range, shoots fireballs for a respectable 3d6 MD, and for a very economical 10 PPE/6 charges. I also carry ramjet ammo, standard sdc rounds and silver bullets.

Similarly, the TW Snaregun (a sawed-off shotgun which fires Magic Net) has the same advantages as the Spitfire, in that it continues to function as a normal weapon when not magically charged.
SDC buckshot, slug, silver, MDC armor-piercing explosive, frag grenade, flare, smoke, tear gas, wooden stake, etc. The ammo available for shotguns give this weapon a HUGE versatility,and I quickly fell in love with it.

As a bonus with both weapons, looking like an old sdc weapon will let you carry them into towns and such which have restrictions on MDC-capable and/or energy weapons, and many opponents will underestimate you.

I now make nearly all my TW weapon creations from non-energy guns. Additionally, if you use caseless ammo, you can save an action by not needing to unload the spent shells before charging it with PPE and using it's magical functions

[random_username]

Had a decent pair of TW 'muzzles against large stationary targets' dps energy rifles from back in the early RMB days... (RMB+CB1 original+SB1+WB1to4)
http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=113789&p=2184168#p2184168

[Sureshot]

Well in my games characters who play mages of any kind tend to stick with magic first. Mind you it required some houseruling on my part. Any and all protective magic and psionics starts out with a minimum of 50 MDC at first level. Any and all when it comes to direct damage start at 3D6 at first level. I'm still debating whether or not to give minimum ranges on both. At the same time I'm thinking of adding more combat actions for other occs that they and only they can do. It's not to say that players in my game don't take a WP or carry a backup weapon. But by and large they use their magic and psionics first. Weapons second.

[Khanibal]

The last time I played a spell-flinger, I used weapons as much as I could. They're a tool designed for a specific task, well designed. I saved Magick (note pretentious spelling) for the variety of tasks that a gat can't do. Since you don't have a lot of skills to spend on W.P.s, E. Rifle is the most useful.

Side note, any wizards I play either do not or soon learn not to dress like wizards. The Coalition isn't the only group that likes to shoot us first.

[Killer Cyborg]

Well in my games characters who play mages of any kind tend to stick with magic first. Mind you it required some houseruling on my part. Any and all protective magic and psionics starts out with a minimum of 50 MDC at first level.

Do you bump up all tech armor to a minimum of 50 MDC?

[Sureshot]

Not yet but I might. The tech based guys don't lose a Attack if they get damage. So imo it evens out. Still I might it's only far.

[Killer Cyborg]

Not yet but I might. The tech based guys don't lose a Attack if they get damage. So imo it evens out. Still I might it's only far.

I think that Aimed and Called shots should be disrupted about the same as spells, though it's never stated in canon.

[Alrik Vas]

just so we're clear, as of RUE, it takes a total of three attacks for a called shot? if or just if you aim beforehand? because if you don't spend an additional action aiming, it makes sharpshooting that much stronger as their special called shot gets even better bonuses.

[Shark_Force]

2 actions for an aimed shot or called shot (some people don't allow called shots without aiming i think?)

3 actions for a called aimed shot.

[Kagashi]

2 actions for an aimed shot or called shot (some people don't allow called shots without aiming i think?)

3 actions for a called aimed shot.

Yeah, a semantics thing really. Palladium chose the word "Aimed Shot" poorly and it should have been called something else. The way I see the game mechanic, you can either get a bonus to strike (by spending an attack aiming) or the ability to hit a specific body part (by spending an attack aiming). If you spend two extra attacks before shooting, you get both bonuses. Otherwise...

just so we're clear, as of RUE, it takes a total of three attacks for a called shot? if or just if you aim beforehand? because if you don't spend an additional action aiming, it makes sharpshooting that much stronger as their special called shot gets even better bonuses.

...Since New West or Rifts Conversion Book 1: Revised have not seen Shadow Updates yet, I would expect the Sharpshooting Called Shot to apply to both an RUE Aimed Shot and and RUE Called Shot, and by extension an RUE Aimed Called Shot. The difference being, instead of getting the static +2 from the RUE game mechanic, you get the PP Bonus listed in New West/RCB1:R. Personally, I would give the sharpshooter a minimum bonus of +2 in an RUE setting, even if the PP bonus would have be only +1 or zero from the character with a lower PP with the sharpshooting skill. Because even the lowest vagabond is getting +2 due to the RUE game mechanic of aimed shots...where as in RMB, you had to have the no kidding WP to enjoy the aimed bonus.

[wyrmraker]

You might want to look up the Battle Magus. They get Sharpshooting with magic spells involving throwing or firing blasts. I allow that as a Weapon Proficiency for mages. I just use the Targeting skill bonuses.

[kaid]

I would not worry about bumping tech armors up there are so many available that are 50+ MDC and the addition of things like the clothing lines from NG2 that have armored trench coats or armored jump suits to go under normal or over normal armor means if a tech user has less than 50 MDC in their armor its either due to battle damage or choice.

[Tor]

The fun thing about Underseas is that while verbal casting was sped up in RUE, the non-verbal casting rules in Underseas are unchanged, so what was once only a little bit longer to do (wasn't it something like 3 actions instead of 2 to cast low level ones? or 50% more) now it's triple as long (200% more) ?

I thought the rules for tacit casting was "twice as long". So if, thanks to RUE, it takes 1 action to cast something, then wouldn't it take 2 actions to cast it tacitly?

--flatline

I checked, Underseas only says 1 spell per round and it costs 3 actions to do it.

Although I think this was before they introduced the 'first spell costs 2 attacks' rule in FoM, most low level mages would only have 4 attacks (CB1 had introduced the 2-for-living) so it would still be more than half their attacks.

Of course, no longer time was given for the medium/high level spells so it's unclear how much longer they would take... RAW you might even consider non-verbal casting to be a speed-up. That's why I'm wondering if this got amended in later reprints of underseas in case they noticed the issue.