New Marine Book

[glitterboy2098]

the official HG timeline at robotech.com had the SDF-3 launched in 2022, so a 3 year trip. and scouting missiosn to find the master's empire (probably using salvaged zentreadi maps) started in 2016.

for point of reference, Khyron destroyed the SDF-1 in 2015 according to HG's timeline.

though the battle of reflex point was in 2044 (as shown in the shadow chronicles film). the prelude comics put the last battles against the regent in the 2040's sometime.. no specific details, but the time cues seem to indicate around 2042ish.

[Protoculture]

the official HG timeline at robotech.com had the SDF-3 launched in 2022, so a 3 year trip. and scouting missiosn to find the master's empire (probably using salvaged zentreadi maps) started in 2016.

UEEF mission as per Gloval Initiative 2014 seems to indicate that. 2015 -2016 would mark the buildup of nascent UEEF fleet consisting of early Tokugawas and Tristars with converted Zentraedi vessels scouting the outer parameter of Masters Empire and establishing both in-Solar colonies and outer-Sol colonies.

SDF-3 Pioneer Mission is another objective in which its mission solely to find Masters homeworld. So with SDF-3 folded in 2022 and rejoin the rest of UEEF in deep space, Space Station Liberty become the only source of information for UEG back home on any news in regards of UEEF activities.

The problem is that, IF UEEF discover Tyrol in 2025, how come no such information trickled down to UEG back on Earth via Liberty?

The only plausible explanation is that (my opinion that is anyway) while the large bulk of UEEF spread out all over the vast borders of Masters Empire and patrolling newly established space lanes connecting new extra Solar human colonies, SDF-3 and her Valivarre-class escorts would discovered Tyrol and stranded there due to faulty fold technology (won't be the first time ... remember SDF-1 fold mishaps). The disappearance of SDF-3 and its escorts would be treated as top secret by UEEF High Command and to avoid demoralization back home so no such news ever filtered down to Liberty.

When SDF-3 and her contingent finally made commo contact with the rest of UEEF, it was finally too late as Robotech Masters had shown up in Sol system and blockaded Earth from the rest of the universe in 2029, while UEEF get embroiled in somewhat broader Sentinels conflict against Invid Regent.

though the battle of reflex point was in 2044 (as shown in the shadow chronicles film). the prelude comics put the last battles against the regent in the 2040's sometime.. no specific details, but the time cues seem to indicate around 2042ish.

Hmmm, the final UEEF assault on Optera seems to be shortly after the 2nd Earth Reclaimation mission of 21st Mars Division in 2042.

[glitterboy2098]

i'm not so sure that you need fualty fold drives to explain the lack of contact..

we don;t have any details on FTL communications ranges, but i'd imagine that since fold drives are limited to trips of about 100 parsecs (a bit over 300 ly) at a go, communications can't be much longer ranged. since it took the SDF-3 three years to reach the master's empire, it is likely that the UEEF had travelled well beyond the range of communications to earth.

which would help explain why they sent Carpenter's ship to inform earth that the "pioneer mission" (which i assume would be the label used for the SDF-3's trip, and thus the bulk of the UEEF not watching over human colonies planted along the way) was busy. odds are the travel time was several years to get back to earth.. when Carpenter left the UEEF would have been really gearing up to liberate the tyrolian empire, having already begun the liberation of several worlds. (the sentinels races were described as "recently liberated" in their 2041ish appearance in the prelude comics, indicating the war took quite awhile to complete, at least 15 years since it started in 2025.) odds are his message wasn't "sorry we can't help" originally, but rather "the UEEF is busy fighting in the masters empire, earth is on its own until further notice".

since such a distance would require ships to act as couriers, information flow would be limited. and he delays would make it impossible to really act swiftly. heck, given the travel time, Lancer's invasion group, the 10th Mars, that arrived in 2038? probably was sent out within a year of receaiving word from escapee's (like dana sterling) that earth had fallen to the invid in 2031. dana's group of refugee's (seen in the comics) would have arrived at tyrol in 2034.. and for the 10th mars to arrive when it did they'd have to have left tyrol space in 2035.

the UEEF troops that arrived during the 2nd war were probably one's stationed nearer to earth.. scouting units exploring places other than along the road to Tyrol, defense units for the colonies the UEEF planted, etc.

of course, after the Nichols drive is developed in 2040, trips would take a lot less time. (the RPG has the shimikaze and SDF-4 with FTL drives that can travel for 4x farther per fold, which in itself would reduce travel time immensely. though i wish we had an actual speed for them, not just distance)

[Stormseed]

I was more amused than I probably should be by how that Praxian is blatantly checking out that UEG soldier's butt.

[Kagashi]

Do Karbarreans look like they do in Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles (Basically, bad ass talking bears)? In the RAW version, their description were like the older Sentinels stuff (mushroom ears, cartoon looking smile...) ?

[mech798]

So, what is the origin for the zentraedi battlepods? Also, did they use the origional art for them?

[Kagashi]

the official HG timeline at robotech.com had the SDF-3 launched in 2022, so a 3 year trip. and scouting missiosn to find the master's empire (probably using salvaged zentreadi maps) started in 2016.

for point of reference, Khyron destroyed the SDF-1 in 2015 according to HG's timeline.

though the battle of reflex point was in 2044 (as shown in the shadow chronicles film). the prelude comics put the last battles against the regent in the 2040's sometime.. no specific details, but the time cues seem to indicate around 2042ish.

In Prelude, the grey haired version of Rick all took place in 2044. Issue 1 took place in 2043.

[ShadowLogan]

for point of reference, Khyron destroyed the SDF-1 in 2015 according to HG's timeline.

Unless its changed somewhere, it is actually 2014 (early) when Khyron destroyed the SDF-1. That is from the old RT.com timeline (I used the internet wayback machine and set it to March of 2015) since the site is backup in a much more limited fashion.

we don;t have any details on FTL communications ranges, but i'd imagine that since fold drives are limited to trips of about 100 parsecs (a bit over 300 ly) at a go, communications can't be much longer ranged. since it took the SDF-3 three years to reach the master's empire, it is likely that the UEEF had travelled well beyond the range of communications to earth.

I'm not so sure about this. An FTL communication signal is likely much more energy efficient than trying to move a star ship after all. The UEEF could also have set up communications relay facilities (satellites, bases, space stations) instead of relying on courier ships.

When the Masters are informed of the destruction of over 4 million robotech vessels, they are said to be located in another galaxy IIRC. Now we do not know if they received this information by courier (nothing indicates it was or wasn't) or from their ship's own sensors. But this was ~2 years of the release of PC cited by the Terminator (per RT.com timeline). They wheren't at Tirol, so they could be closer/farther to Earth than Tirol is, plus they know where they are going (so a faster trip is possible than if you still have to find where you are going).

Now if it is courier ship(s) it doesn't help anyone establish FTL signal range/strength. But if it is based on ship's sensors (either that ship or a nearby escort) that changes things, since no matter how you slice it then someone had to detect the release of PC with some form of FTL given the distances involved. And while the distance in this scene resulted in a nearly 2 year delay, it still shows that FTL communication can occur w/ a much shorter turn around than you have going potentially.

[bielmic]

How do the new cyclones fit into the UEEF strategy? Are they still mainly a ground based infantry despite having the "space" name? Or are they designed to be used in space like boarding actions or actually just flying around? How are they powerwise (defensive and offensive) compared with later 30/40/50 series? I've always found the cyclones in the RPG to be too powerful for their size other than maybe the 30 series and I'm hoping that the earlier ones expand the roles but not the power levels.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

we don;t have any details on FTL communications ranges, but i'd imagine that since fold drives are limited to trips of about 100 parsecs (a bit over 300 ly) at a go, communications can't be much longer ranged. since it took the SDF-3 three years to reach the master's empire, it is likely that the UEEF had travelled well beyond the range of communications to earth.

Then the SDF-03 would have had to be nearby in Eps. #61 The Invid Invasion because:

Marlene: All communications systems are normal and the signal from Admiral Hunter's flagship is, 'Attack with first combat squadron immediately'.

[smkeyes]

How do the new cyclones fit into the UEEF strategy? Are they still mainly a ground based infantry despite having the "space" name? Or are they designed to be used in space like boarding actions or actually just flying around? How are they powerwise (defensive and offensive) compared with later 30/40/50 series? I've always found the cyclones in the RPG to be too powerful for their size other than maybe the 30 series and I'm hoping that the earlier ones expand the roles but not the power levels.

VR-010 are ground based infantry for a planetary surface.

VR-020 series are based for space combat and low gravity environments they suffer handling penitles for operations in an earth type gravity.

[eliakon]

we don;t have any details on FTL communications ranges, but i'd imagine that since fold drives are limited to trips of about 100 parsecs (a bit over 300 ly) at a go, communications can't be much longer ranged. since it took the SDF-3 three years to reach the master's empire, it is likely that the UEEF had travelled well beyond the range of communications to earth.

Then the SDF-03 would have had to be nearby in Eps. #61 The Invid Invasion because:

Marlene: All communications systems are normal and the signal from Admiral Hunter's flagship is, 'Attack with first combat squadron immediately'.

And?
Its not exactly uncommon for Flagships to be near (say 300 Light Years here...) to the main action.
And 300 light years is a rather significant distance really....that's tens of thousands of star systems........any one of which might have been the staging point for the final assault (i.e. where everyone formed up for the last jump to Earth space)

[glitterboy2098]

we don;t have any details on FTL communications ranges, but i'd imagine that since fold drives are limited to trips of about 100 parsecs (a bit over 300 ly) at a go, communications can't be much longer ranged. since it took the SDF-3 three years to reach the master's empire, it is likely that the UEEF had travelled well beyond the range of communications to earth.

I'm not so sure about this. An FTL communication signal is likely much more energy efficient than trying to move a star ship after all. The UEEF could also have set up communications relay facilities (satellites, bases, space stations) instead of relying on courier ships.

When the Masters are informed of the destruction of over 4 million robotech vessels, they are said to be located in another galaxy IIRC. Now we do not know if they received this information by courier (nothing indicates it was or wasn't) or from their ship's own sensors. But this was ~2 years of the release of PC cited by the Terminator (per RT.com timeline). They wheren't at Tirol, so they could be closer/farther to Earth than Tirol is, plus they know where they are going (so a faster trip is possible than if you still have to find where you are going).

Now if it is courier ship(s) it doesn't help anyone establish FTL signal range/strength. But if it is based on ship's sensors (either that ship or a nearby escort) that changes things, since no matter how you slice it then someone had to detect the release of PC with some form of FTL given the distances involved. And while the distance in this scene resulted in a nearly 2 year delay, it still shows that FTL communication can occur w/ a much shorter turn around than you have going potentially.

actually there is another galaxy within 300 light years of earth.
the Sagittarius Dwarf Spheroidal Galaxy (not actually a sphere, it's named after the shape of it's core, which was the first part discovered) is in the process of being consumed by the milky way, and it's stretched out arms interpenetrate the milky way in several spots. one of which is practically on top of the solar system. enough so that before stellar movement studies were rexamined, some scientist had proposed our solar system was part of it, not the milky way.

since galaxies are defined by the relative movement of their stars to determine shape, the stars of the Sagittarius Dwarf Spheroidal Galaxy remain another galaxy even when inside the plane of them ilky way.

plus, while FTL comm might be longer ranged, i doubt it is that much longer ranged.. with a travel time of 3 years.. the UEEF is likely all the way top the other side of the galaxy.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

actually there is another galaxy within 300 light years of earth. the Sagittarius Dwarf Spheroidal Galaxy

That's funny, cause from that Wikipedia article....

Sgr dSph is roughly 10,000 light-years in diameter, and is currently about 70,000 light-years from Earth

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Its not exactly uncommon for Flagships to be near (say 300 Light Years here...) to the main action.

Unless Tirol was 300 light years away in 2042, then that statement is completely and totally idiotic.

[taalismn]

Its not exactly uncommon for Flagships to be near (say 300 Light Years here...) to the main action.

Unless Tirol was 300 light years away in 2042, then that statement is completely and totally idiotic.

Depends on how dedicated your commanders are to 'leading from the front'.

"You know, if we keep 'repositioning' to spinward, we're going to end up repositioning into the enemy's rearguard...."

[glitterboy2098]

except that the masters were not at Tyrol at the time.. they were on their cityships. which could be anywhere. it would make sense that they took to their ships to have a mobile HQ center, allowing them to stay near the zentreadi grand fleet as it searched.

[bielmic]

How do the new cyclones fit into the UEEF strategy? Are they still mainly a ground based infantry despite having the "space" name? Or are they designed to be used in space like boarding actions or actually just flying around? How are they powerwise (defensive and offensive) compared with later 30/40/50 series? I've always found the cyclones in the RPG to be too powerful for their size other than maybe the 30 series and I'm hoping that the earlier ones expand the roles but not the power levels.

VR-010 are ground based infantry for a planetary surface.

VR-020 series are based for space combat and low gravity environments they suffer handling penitles for operations in an earth type gravity.

Thanks. Sorry to keep picking folks brains about this but I'm trying to figure out if I'm buying this book soon or if it'll be a bargain bin purchase years down the line. Are the 10/20 series sturdier than the light 30 series that followed them? Do they explain why they're not being used? Do they still have an autododge like the other cyclones?

[SRoss]

Been to the GenCon booth, flipped through the Marine book, looks cool.

[glitterboy2098]

How do the new cyclones fit into the UEEF strategy? Are they still mainly a ground based infantry despite having the "space" name? Or are they designed to be used in space like boarding actions or actually just flying around? How are they powerwise (defensive and offensive) compared with later 30/40/50 series? I've always found the cyclones in the RPG to be too powerful for their size other than maybe the 30 series and I'm hoping that the earlier ones expand the roles but not the power levels.

VR-010 are ground based infantry for a planetary surface.

VR-020 series are based for space combat and low gravity environments they suffer handling penitles for operations in an earth type gravity.

Thanks. Sorry to keep picking folks brains about this but I'm trying to figure out if I'm buying this book soon or if it'll be a bargain bin purchase years down the line. Are the 10/20 series sturdier than the light 30 series that followed them? Do they explain why they're not being used? Do they still have an autododge like the other cyclones?

not sure about the full book, but the RAW version had the 10's and 20's with durability depending on role (better than the -38's, not quite as good as a -52), they just were slower and lacked full flight ability in armor mode, instead being limited to power boosted jumps.
they did have modular forearm mounts though, which was a feature the -30's and later didn't. implied to be a change done to simplify mass production. (the -30's were the first to see mass production, but the -10's and -20's were the standard for the liberation campaigns against the invid due to their flexibility. presumably the -10's and -20's were built via LRIP in large enough batches to nearly keep up with losses.

[ShadowLogan]

actually there is another galaxy within 300 light years of earth.

While the galaxy in question might have elements w/n 300ly of Earth, the dialogue I am thinking of states that it is "somewhere within the recesses of another galaxy", it isn't the same scene as the discharge discussion (Ep29, this one is in Ep30).

I think that would rule it out being w/n 300ly of Earth. While the galaxy in question might have components w/n the Milkyway that location description seems to be at odds with the "recesses" part, the vagueness of "somewhere" does allow for it though, but at the same time it allows it to really be anywhere w/n the galaxy in question so we end up with a huge volume of space to consider.

plus, while FTL comm might be longer ranged, i doubt it is that much longer ranged.. with a travel time of 3 years.. the UEEF is likely all the way top the other side of the galaxy.

While I can agree the FTL signal can lose strength over distance, and won't allow real-time communication everywhere, it should offer much longer range. Couple that with Communication relay installations and the courier ship method just seems impractical and expensive (energy wise) since we know FTL communications exist from various bits of dialogue (TSC for sure, but IIRC even TRM has some references, though TMS and NG are silent on the issue IIRC) and we know they use to use satellite (TRM, by NG...)

[eliakon]

Its not exactly uncommon for Flagships to be near (say 300 Light Years here...) to the main action.

Unless Tirol was 300 light years away in 2042, then that statement is completely and totally idiotic.

Is there a statement anywhere that Admiral Hunters Flagship was at Triol when it gave the order to attack?
Because it would only be idiotic if there is one. Otherwise it makes perfect sense as I said it.
I.e. that the Flagship was 300ly or less from the Earth when the order to attack was transmitted.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

TSC for sure, but IIRC even TRM has some references, though TMS and NG are silent on the issue IIRC

Dude, seriously? I posted up-thread dialogue from The Invid Invasion that clearly indicates FTL-comm. Then there is the comm traffic from the SDF-04 in Ghost Town.

Is there a statement anywhere that Admiral Hunters Flagship was at Triol when it gave the order to attack? Because it would only be idiotic if there is one. Otherwise it makes perfect sense as I said it. I.e. that the Flagship was 300ly or less from the Earth when the order to attack was transmitted.

Yes, there is. Its called Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles, which is considered to be canon.

[mech798]

Is there a statement anywhere that Admiral Hunters Flagship was at Triol when it gave the order to attack? Because it would only be idiotic if there is one. Otherwise it makes perfect sense as I said it. I.e. that the Flagship was 300ly or less from the Earth when the order to attack was transmitted.

Yes, there is. Its called Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles, which is considered to be canon.

Which, surprise surprise, means that the plot as written is completely ridiculous, because that should mean the expeditionary force is completely up to date with that's happening on earth.

So, on a repeat note-- what is the backstory behind the zentraedi battlepod designs and did they recycle the old artwork?

[eliakon]

TSC for sure, but IIRC even TRM has some references, though TMS and NG are silent on the issue IIRC

Dude, seriously? I posted up-thread dialogue from The Invid Invasion that clearly indicates FTL-comm. Then there is the comm traffic from the SDF-04 in Ghost Town.

Is there a statement anywhere that Admiral Hunters Flagship was at Triol when it gave the order to attack? Because it would only be idiotic if there is one. Otherwise it makes perfect sense as I said it. I.e. that the Flagship was 300ly or less from the Earth when the order to attack was transmitted.

Yes, there is. Its called Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles, which is considered to be canon.

Well then I guess we could possibly have an issue......or we just leapfrog the com signal (I.e. he relays the order to ship B that is 300ly away, that sends it to ship C 300ly farther down the chain....)
*shrugs* I have only read the Prelude comic one time so I am not really sure how the order was done....

[bielmic]

So, on a repeat note-- what is the backstory behind the zentraedi battlepod designs and did they recycle the old artwork?

While I can't speak to the backstory, I asked a question about the visuals earlier in the thread and was told they incorporated alpha design characteristics into the zentraedi pods I guess like they did with the destroids. I don't have the book so can't help you more than that.

[bielmic]

not sure about the full book, but the RAW version had the 10's and 20's with durability depending on role (better than the -38's, not quite as good as a -52), they just were slower and lacked full flight ability in armor mode, instead being limited to power boosted jumps.
they did have modular forearm mounts though, which was a feature the -30's and later didn't. implied to be a change done to simplify mass production. (the -30's were the first to see mass production, but the -10's and -20's were the standard for the liberation campaigns against the invid due to their flexibility. presumably the -10's and -20's were built via LRIP in large enough batches to nearly keep up with losses.

Thanks for the info. It sounds like I'd have to see the entries in person before making a decision on the book as I like the above somewhat (depends on the relative power) but I'm worried about just how much more powerful than the 30 series they are (as in the actual bonuses and whether they get an autododge).

[ShadowLogan]

Dude, seriously? I posted up-thread dialogue from The Invid Invasion that clearly indicates FTL-comm. Then there is the comm traffic from the SDF-04 in Ghost Town.

The dialogue in Invid Invasion does not say the SDF-3 was present, only Admiral Hunter's flagship IIRC. It is possible for the operation Admiral Hunter was directing the action from a vessel other than the SDF-3, which would make it his flagship. That is why I don't think it clearly indicates FTL-com at least going off just the show. IIRC PttSC doesn't cover 21st, but does mention it after the fact.

Even the Garfish in Ghost Town doesn't establish the messages are FTL from w/n the show IIRC. Its only called a transceiver, and nothing I can recall points to it being an FTL message since messages can be relayed to Earth from the Moon Base by conventional means. And you would not need FTL to communicate between the Earth and the Moon since mankind's been doing it at that distance since 1959 (though we tried in 1958 with a string of launch failures). While there is a lag by conventional radio (~1.5seconds one way), it would hardly be noticable.

[Lt Gargoyle]

for communication with Earth, The ASC sends a team to Liberty stations to get communications back with the UEEF. I will assume that they have a systems set in place in the universe where satellite relays are in place and likely with a small team of personnel dedicated to maintain them, so they can maintain it. Carpenters ship folds back when the masters keep breaking it. At this point the UEEF is in a fight with the Regent and cannot send reinforcements.

it was established in the that hyperspace communications was designed into their fleets. We see it in generations when they get the signal to attack. We see it in the Shadow Chronicles, when the SDF-3 contacts the moon base. And again when Vince is not able to when he gets to space station liberty because they Haydonites are jamming their signal. its the distance that is in question. but going off HG stuff, they can have the SDF-3 in orbit of Tirol and communicate with earth. With or without relays is the question. And personally I imagine the masters already set up the relays for the zentraedi generations previous so they could stay in touch with their fleet.

[eliakon]

for communication with Earth, The ASC sends a team to Liberty stations to get communications back with the UEEF. I will assume that they have a systems set in place in the universe where satellite relays are in place and likely with a small team of personnel dedicated to maintain them, so they can maintain it. Carpenters ship folds back when the masters keep breaking it. At this point the UEEF is in a fight with the Regent and cannot send reinforcements.

it was established in the that hyperspace communications was designed into their fleets. We see it in generations when they get the signal to attack. We see it in the Shadow Chronicles, when the SDF-3 contacts the moon base. And again when Vince is not able to when he gets to space station liberty because they Haydonites are jamming their signal. its the distance that is in question. but going off HG stuff, they can have the SDF-3 in orbit of Tirol and communicate with earth. With or without relays is the question. And personally I imagine the masters already set up the relays for the zentraedi generations previous so they could stay in touch with their fleet.

So we are back to the basic questions....
1) What is the range on FTL coms.
2) What is required for it
3) Are ship coms as long ranged as station coms
4) What is the lag time on these coms

[Lt Gargoyle]

for communication with Earth, The ASC sends a team to Liberty stations to get communications back with the UEEF. I will assume that they have a systems set in place in the universe where satellite relays are in place and likely with a small team of personnel dedicated to maintain them, so they can maintain it. Carpenters ship folds back when the masters keep breaking it. At this point the UEEF is in a fight with the Regent and cannot send reinforcements.

it was established in the that hyperspace communications was designed into their fleets. We see it in generations when they get the signal to attack. We see it in the Shadow Chronicles, when the SDF-3 contacts the moon base. And again when Vince is not able to when he gets to space station liberty because they Haydonites are jamming their signal. its the distance that is in question. but going off HG stuff, they can have the SDF-3 in orbit of Tirol and communicate with earth. With or without relays is the question. And personally I imagine the masters already set up the relays for the zentraedi generations previous so they could stay in touch with their fleet.

So we are back to the basic questions....
1) What is the range on FTL coms.
2) What is required for it
3) Are ship coms as long ranged as station coms
4) What is the lag time on these coms

The time line in the new book clearly says that the Earth and Expeditionary force is in contact. However there are several inconsistency with this. The flag ship folds directly to Tirol, and is reaching earth, so the large capital ships can make the distance. Shuttles and the Garfish propably only have two to three times their fold range do to size of their mass. but as i said before there is likely a system wide communication system of the zentraedi and masters that the humans refurbish as they find them.

[Lt Gargoyle]

Do Karbarreans look like they do in Prelude to the Shadow Chronicles (Basically, bad ass talking bears)? In the RAW version, their description were like the older Sentinels stuff (mushroom ears, cartoon looking smile...) ?

they are the Prelude Looks, all the Sentinel races have been re-imaged.

[Kagashi]

Perytonian energy wizard occ

Are the spells just cut and paste basic invocations from PF2 and/or Rifts or are they tailored to Robotech?

pg46 "The use of Rifts spells is left ENTIRELY to the Game Master's discretion, and he or she has the absolute final word on which spells can be used in the robotech setting."

There is a list of 34 spells for the Perytonian Energy Spells. So it is tailored to Robotech and the Perytonian race.

So disappointing. looks like its the same cut and paste spells from the RAW edition. Should have been focused on technology and space, not negate magic which only works against other Perytonians. Unless you have a game where you are playing within the Perytonian endless battle, youll never use those spells again.

Why should a culture that is thousands of years old.....be specialized to assist in doing the new modern thing the PCs are off doing and ignore their actual culture.
If they DIDNT have stuff like negate magic I would be horribly disappointed. Just because it doesn't help min-max out the PCs combat power in a game doesn't mean that culturally relevant stuff should be ignored......especially since there IS that whole 'endless battle' thing.....

Im not saying it shouldnt be included, however they really didnt sit down and think about the game as a whole. That is what is disappointing.

Tossing in a bunch of renamed palladium fantasy spells and PPE just to include "magic" into the game just doesnt do it justice. The Perytonians are NOT Palladium Wizards or Rifts Ley Line Walkers. They are Perytonians. A race of people who understand the concept of technology and space travel. They are not idiots and their magic would sure to evolve just as humans technology evolves very quickly; we went from...what...58 years from the first flight to the first man in space! Why wouldnt their magic evolve the same way after dealing with both the Masters and the Invid and now the UEEF?

I just wish they put a little more thought into it instead of renaming Armor of Ithan and wasting a slot on Negate Magic in a game where the likelihood of going up against another group of Perytonians is not very good unless you are specifically playing the Endless Battle...in which most of the opponents will be negating the magic of the player rendering any and all of his powers useless anyway... The real bad guy in this is either the Invid or Haydonites (or Edwards), none of which provide ANY magical offensive or defensive capabilities at all (some slight psionics if you throw in the Masters, but they are not one in the same).

Including spells like Frequency Jamming or Negate Mechanics, or even creating new spells specifically for Robotech like "Sense Protoculture" (they are after all ENERGY wizards...) would have been better choices for a base spell list. Space magic would be extremely helpful as well, the ability to create water or air in a vacuum can prove to be extremely valuable, especially if you decide to play a "Battlestargate: Voyeger" game where natural resources are limited. Remember, the awesomeness of magic rarely has to do with how much you deal and how much you can take, but in flexibility and support to the other characters.

The bit of "if you dont like this, than do our work for us and do what you want" cop out is eye rolling. They put very little thought into it...at least in the RAW version (still dont have my finished copy yet).

[glitterboy2098]

for communication with Earth, The ASC sends a team to Liberty stations to get communications back with the UEEF. I will assume that they have a systems set in place in the universe where satellite relays are in place and likely with a small team of personnel dedicated to maintain them, so they can maintain it. Carpenters ship folds back when the masters keep breaking it. At this point the UEEF is in a fight with the Regent and cannot send reinforcements.

it was established in the that hyperspace communications was designed into their fleets. We see it in generations when they get the signal to attack. We see it in the Shadow Chronicles, when the SDF-3 contacts the moon base. And again when Vince is not able to when he gets to space station liberty because they Haydonites are jamming their signal. its the distance that is in question. but going off HG stuff, they can have the SDF-3 in orbit of Tirol and communicate with earth. With or without relays is the question. And personally I imagine the masters already set up the relays for the zentraedi generations previous so they could stay in touch with their fleet.

The time line in the new book clearly says that the Earth and Expeditionary force is in contact. However there are several inconsistency with this. The flag ship folds directly to Tirol, and is reaching earth, so the large capital ships can make the distance. Shuttles and the Garfish propably only have two to three times their fold range do to size of their mass. but as i said before there is likely a system wide communication system of the zentraedi and masters that the humans refurbish as they find them.

does it say specifically the ship folds directly to tyrol? or does it just list travel time. because a 3 year travel time does not mean a single fold, it can mean lots of little folds, plus time spent between folds in normal space recharging and doing other things (like planting the colonies the Pioneer mission has as its primary directive, mapping stars, etc.)

and actually, when reineheart (sp?) receives the order to prepare the Nuetron-S missiles, the SDF-3 and Hunter are in "Omicron sector", as per both Prelude and Shadow Chronicles. (see pg16 of issue 5) the evidence in shadow chronicles is that the Omicron sector is within 600 parsecs of earth, given the Icarus's fold distance. since the icarus folds there and back in one go.

in prelude the decision to bring the Nuetron-S missiles along with the invasion fleet was not at tyrol either.. it was at space station liberty, but all the people involved were sitting around a table together. including the sentinels representatives.

we don't know if Liberty moved after that meeting, but when Liberty shows up in shadow chronicles it's within only a jump or two of earth.. visual cues don't really allow for more than a day of travel, but they are limited enough in that segment to leave a little leeway as far as distance.

that still puts it within a 3000ly sphere of earth, and not the possible 70,000+ of the pioneer mission's trip. (it would have helped if we knew how much time the pioneer mission spent doing other things than traveling, would help narrow things down.)

[eliakon]

So disappointing. looks like its the same cut and paste spells from the RAW edition. Should have been focused on technology and space, not negate magic which only works against other Perytonians. Unless you have a game where you are playing within the Perytonian endless battle, youll never use those spells again.

Why should a culture that is thousands of years old.....be specialized to assist in doing the new modern thing the PCs are off doing and ignore their actual culture.
If they DIDNT have stuff like negate magic I would be horribly disappointed. Just because it doesn't help min-max out the PCs combat power in a game doesn't mean that culturally relevant stuff should be ignored......especially since there IS that whole 'endless battle' thing.....

Im not saying it shouldnt be included, however they really didnt sit down and think about the game as a whole. That is what is disappointing.

Tossing in a bunch of renamed palladium fantasy spells and PPE just to include "magic" into the game just doesnt do it justice. The Perytonians are NOT Palladium Wizards or Rifts Ley Line Walkers. They are Perytonians. A race of people who understand the concept of technology and space travel. They are not idiots and their magic would sure to evolve just as humans technology evolves very quickly; we went from...what...58 years from the first flight to the first man in space! Why wouldnt their magic evolve the same way after dealing with both the Masters and the Invid and now the UEEF?

I just wish they put a little more thought into it instead of renaming Armor of Ithan and wasting a slot on Negate Magic in a game where the likelihood of going up against another group of Perytonians is not very good unless you are specifically playing the Endless Battle...in which most of the opponents will be negating the magic of the player rendering any and all of his powers useless anyway... The real bad guy in this is either the Invid or Haydonites (or Edwards), none of which provide ANY magical offensive or defensive capabilities at all (some slight psionics if you throw in the Masters, but they are not one in the same).

Including spells like Frequency Jamming or Negate Mechanics, or even creating new spells specifically for Robotech like "Sense Protoculture" (they are after all ENERGY wizards...) would have been better choices for a base spell list. Space magic would be extremely helpful as well, the ability to create water or air in a vacuum can prove to be extremely valuable, especially if you decide to play a "Battlestargate: Voyeger" game where natural resources are limited. Remember, the awesomeness of magic rarely has to do with how much you deal and how much you can take, but in flexibility and support to the other characters.

The bit of "if you dont like this, than do our work for us and do what you want" cop out is eye rolling. They put very little thought into it...at least in the RAW version (still dont have my finished copy yet).

I guess I see things the opposite. I would have been upset if they HAD included some of the various highly specialized tech and space spells. The reason being that they are supposed to be energy wizards and not some super skilled Mary Sue race with all the answers.
Sure we could have loaded them up with a bunch of the various impressive tech spells like Machine Empathy, or Metamorphosis: Energy, or Engine Flame Out, or Electromagnetic Attack....but then they would be insanely powerful since as you pointed out....there are no other counters. Its not like Rifts or Palladium Fantasy where the opposition has access to magic of their own, or a selection of other counters. The spell selection is designed to allow for some flexibility with out being so powerful that the opposition has to include wizards to have a chance.

[Lt Gargoyle]

for communication with Earth, The ASC sends a team to Liberty stations to get communications back with the UEEF. I will assume that they have a systems set in place in the universe where satellite relays are in place and likely with a small team of personnel dedicated to maintain them, so they can maintain it. Carpenters ship folds back when the masters keep breaking it. At this point the UEEF is in a fight with the Regent and cannot send reinforcements.

it was established in the that hyperspace communications was designed into their fleets. We see it in generations when they get the signal to attack. We see it in the Shadow Chronicles, when the SDF-3 contacts the moon base. And again when Vince is not able to when he gets to space station liberty because they Haydonites are jamming their signal. its the distance that is in question. but going off HG stuff, they can have the SDF-3 in orbit of Tirol and communicate with earth. With or without relays is the question. And personally I imagine the masters already set up the relays for the zentraedi generations previous so they could stay in touch with their fleet.

The time line in the new book clearly says that the Earth and Expeditionary force is in contact. However there are several inconsistency with this. The flag ship folds directly to Tirol, and is reaching earth, so the large capital ships can make the distance. Shuttles and the Garfish propably only have two to three times their fold range do to size of their mass. but as i said before there is likely a system wide communication system of the zentraedi and masters that the humans refurbish as they find them.

does it say specifically the ship folds directly to tyrol? or does it just list travel time. because a 3 year travel time does not mean a single fold, it can mean lots of little folds, plus time spent between folds in normal space recharging and doing other things (like planting the colonies the Pioneer mission has as its primary directive, mapping stars, etc.)

and actually, when reineheart (sp?) receives the order to prepare the Nuetron-S missiles, the SDF-3 and Hunter are in "Omicron sector", as per both Prelude and Shadow Chronicles. (see pg16 of issue 5) the evidence in shadow chronicles is that the Omicron sector is within 600 parsecs of earth, given the Icarus's fold distance. since the icarus folds there and back in one go.

in prelude the decision to bring the Nuetron-S missiles along with the invasion fleet was not at tyrol either.. it was at space station liberty, but all the people involved were sitting around a table together. including the sentinels representatives.

we don't know if Liberty moved after that meeting, but when Liberty shows up in shadow chronicles it's within only a jump or two of earth.. visual cues don't really allow for more than a day of travel, but they are limited enough in that segment to leave a little leeway as far as distance.

that still puts it within a 3000ly sphere of earth, and not the possible 70,000+ of the pioneer mission's trip. (it would have helped if we knew how much time the pioneer mission spent doing other things than traveling, would help narrow things down.)

It says they fold into fantoma space and that it was not an instant trip, it took two weeks in fold time, however it was three years for the rest of the universe. an anomaly they will not fix for a awhile.

The Marine Book follows the Novels a lot more than the rest of RPG books. even hinting at events of end of the circle where the Sterling family Exador and Cabell are with them when the awareness wakes up.

you are correct, we do not know all the other factors. It would be nice to actually get the official rulings from PB or HG on it.

[Kagashi]

So disappointing. looks like its the same cut and paste spells from the RAW edition. Should have been focused on technology and space, not negate magic which only works against other Perytonians. Unless you have a game where you are playing within the Perytonian endless battle, youll never use those spells again.

Why should a culture that is thousands of years old.....be specialized to assist in doing the new modern thing the PCs are off doing and ignore their actual culture.
If they DIDNT have stuff like negate magic I would be horribly disappointed. Just because it doesn't help min-max out the PCs combat power in a game doesn't mean that culturally relevant stuff should be ignored......especially since there IS that whole 'endless battle' thing.....

Im not saying it shouldnt be included, however they really didnt sit down and think about the game as a whole. That is what is disappointing.

Tossing in a bunch of renamed palladium fantasy spells and PPE just to include "magic" into the game just doesnt do it justice. The Perytonians are NOT Palladium Wizards or Rifts Ley Line Walkers. They are Perytonians. A race of people who understand the concept of technology and space travel. They are not idiots and their magic would sure to evolve just as humans technology evolves very quickly; we went from...what...58 years from the first flight to the first man in space! Why wouldnt their magic evolve the same way after dealing with both the Masters and the Invid and now the UEEF?

I just wish they put a little more thought into it instead of renaming Armor of Ithan and wasting a slot on Negate Magic in a game where the likelihood of going up against another group of Perytonians is not very good unless you are specifically playing the Endless Battle...in which most of the opponents will be negating the magic of the player rendering any and all of his powers useless anyway... The real bad guy in this is either the Invid or Haydonites (or Edwards), none of which provide ANY magical offensive or defensive capabilities at all (some slight psionics if you throw in the Masters, but they are not one in the same).

Including spells like Frequency Jamming or Negate Mechanics, or even creating new spells specifically for Robotech like "Sense Protoculture" (they are after all ENERGY wizards...) would have been better choices for a base spell list. Space magic would be extremely helpful as well, the ability to create water or air in a vacuum can prove to be extremely valuable, especially if you decide to play a "Battlestargate: Voyeger" game where natural resources are limited. Remember, the awesomeness of magic rarely has to do with how much you deal and how much you can take, but in flexibility and support to the other characters.

The bit of "if you dont like this, than do our work for us and do what you want" cop out is eye rolling. They put very little thought into it...at least in the RAW version (still dont have my finished copy yet).

I guess I see things the opposite. I would have been upset if they HAD included some of the various highly specialized tech and space spells. The reason being that they are supposed to be energy wizards and not some super skilled Mary Sue race with all the answers.
Sure we could have loaded them up with a bunch of the various impressive tech spells like Machine Empathy, or Metamorphosis: Energy, or Engine Flame Out, or Electromagnetic Attack....but then they would be insanely powerful since as you pointed out....there are no other counters. Its not like Rifts or Palladium Fantasy where the opposition has access to magic of their own, or a selection of other counters. The spell selection is designed to allow for some flexibility with out being so powerful that the opposition has to include wizards to have a chance.

I can see that.

I just see the word Energy Wizard and would think they could see the "chi" of technology, thus these types of tech spells would come more naturally to them than a LLW or a PF Wizard would.

In the RAW version, its simply lists the spells and one assumes every Energy Wizard knows all of them at level one...is it the same way in the finalized book?

[glitterboy2098]

It says they fold into fantoma space and that it was not an instant trip, it took two weeks in fold time, however it was three years for the rest of the universe. an anomaly they will not fix for a awhile.

physically impossible in the RPG. unless tyrol is only 300 ly from earth.

The Marine Book follows the Novels a lot more than the rest of RPG books. even hinting at events of end of the circle where the Sterling family Exador and Cabell are with them when the awareness wakes up.

impossible according to HG's own canon.. Prelude establishes that Max Sterling and his family were aboard the SDF-3 for the test of the nuetron-S warhead.
and Exodor was the guy conducting the test.

so basically Mr. Jackson ignored HG's canon, HG didn't catch it, and now we have a huge continuity problem.

[Lt Gargoyle]

It says they fold into fantoma space and that it was not an instant trip, it took two weeks in fold time, however it was three years for the rest of the universe. an anomaly they will not fix for a awhile.

physically impossible in the RPG. unless tyrol is only 300 ly from earth.

Its a RPG! just saying. In a universe with Magic and psychic powers where is it that says physics are bound to any such laws. And i have not seen any stats for the SDF-3 Anywhere in the game books for second edition.

The Marine Book follows the Novels a lot more than the rest of RPG books. even hinting at events of end of the circle where the Sterling family Exador and Cabell are with them when the awareness wakes up.

impossible according to HG's own canon.. Prelude establishes that Max Sterling and his family were aboard the SDF-3 for the test of the nuetron-S warhead.
and Exodor was the guy conducting the test.

so basically Mr. Jackson ignored HG's canon, HG didn't catch it, and now we have a huge continuity problem.[/quote]

Well impossible for HG? or PB? because its in print and sold, and guess what, HG approved it. Now am i saying its right? no. In fact if we are to use the Shadow Chronicles then most of what is done could be considered a problem with HG's own canon. I personally took it that the UEEF never even saw Haydon IV let alone know of its location. Heck I do not even know if Haydon IV is even mentioned in the movies ( I do not recall it being in there). Just there is an Awareness, giving orders to the Haydonites.

[glitterboy2098]

we don't have stats for the SDF-3.. but we do have stats for the fleet that came with it. a fleet too big to be carried in one fold bubble, since it includes things like the 10th mars (several dozen starships) and 21st mars (another several dozen starships) and none of those can fold more than 100 parsecs at a go. ergo, it is likely the SDF-3 could only fold 100 parsecs as well.

and HG's canon trumps the RPG's canon. according to HG's own canon policy. which means the events of Prelude are canon, not the marine book's mention. the problem is that PB is supposed to conform to HG's canon where there is information available. there was information available, therefor this is a problem.

[Lt Gargoyle]

we don't have stats for the SDF-3.. but we do have stats for the fleet that came with it. a fleet too big to be carried in one fold bubble, since it includes things like the 10th mars (several dozen starships) and 21st mars (another several dozen starships) and none of those can fold more than 100 parsecs at a go. ergo, it is likely the SDF-3 could only fold 100 parsecs as well.

and HG's canon trumps the RPG's canon. according to HG's own canon policy. which means the events of Prelude are canon, not the marine book's mention. the problem is that PB is supposed to conform to HG's canon where there is information available. there was information available, therefor this is a problem.

Actually we have nothing on the actual Pioneer mission to use. And you are assuming the fleet folded with the SDF-3 all at once. The flag ship could have taken a small fleet with them (the size that they could fit into a single fold bubble) Heck even the Marine book has no mention of any other vessels accompanying the SDF-3. It merely says its folds to Tirol and it takes it 2 weeks to get there for the crew and 3 years of time passes for everyone else. And is instantly attacked by the invid who think the SDF-3 is the masters returning.

So that entire argument about the fold is fully shot down. Heck Seto stance actually has merit here. A army of clones created to operate a newly constructed fleet.
I am not arguing in favor of this as canon vs Shadow Chronicles, But this is a RPG book, its for an RPG and good news each GM may pick and pull apart any aspect of it for their own game. I personally will not have the SDF-3 make it in one jump, as it is not logical to me.
However the whole it is impossible is not an arguable stance in a make believe world with made up technology and magic. The writers can do whatever they want. HG approved it. So use it as you will.

I'd like to see the Spaceship book with all these dam rule questions answered myself. But until then its gonna be the old standby of house rules.

[glitterboy2098]

actually we do have confirmation about a whole fleet going with. the Condor write up established the following facts:
the 10th mars division went with the SDF-3. and that several other divisions did as well, because it says only the 10th mars got the condor to begin with.

the bioroid interceptor write up established more:
the UEEF fought several battles on the way to tyrol, resulting in the loss of most of the zentreadi battlepods and fighter pods before they ever arrived.

and we have plenty of material on the fold drive tech.

the zentreadi warships (flagship and destroyer) have listed under their "maximum range" that they can only fold 140 (destroyer) and 180 (flagship) parsecs. and that longer trips require multiple folds.
humanity was using zentreadi fold systems for it's own ships, so 140-180 parsecs is an upper limit per fold.
the ASC's tristar cruiser, which is an example of higher end 2020's starship technology, has a fold range of 115 persecs per jump. with the exact same bit about longer trips needing multiple folds.

the SDF-1 is listed as having a 750 parsec distance, but it also has the matrix on board to provide extra power.. which the SDF-3 does not in 2022.

the SDF-4 and Shimikaze have 400-600 parsec fold distances, but those are ships built after 2042, which is the date when Louie Nichols and a UEEF team completed an improved fold drive (with the help of the Haydonites and the study of shadow technology). this is shown in the 4th issue of Prelude, and the 5th issue establishes that the UEEF was refitting their whole fleet with the new drive in time for the last push to reclaim earth from the invid.

like with history, details like this are rarely handed out all at once on a silver platter. you have to read the fine details and peice together the different bits of information.

so basically, the single fold trip is physically impossible. unless Tyrol is only a few hundred lightyears from earth.

and the idea that the flagship would go on ahead of it's fleet (which exists to defend the ship) is not only absurd, it's ******* idiotic. assumign for the moment that the SDF-3 somehow can violate the nature of the technology, that would mean the SDF-3 would arrive at tyrol.. (which earth didn't even know the exact location of) alone, against.. who knows what kind of defenses? with it's defending fleet possibly years behind it? it would be like Tsushima, only a million times worse. no commander would ever risk it.

[Lt Gargoyle]

actually we do have confirmation about a whole fleet going with. the Condor write up established the following facts:
the 10th mars division went with the SDF-3. and that several other divisions did as well, because it says only the 10th mars got the condor to begin with.

the bioroid interceptor write up established more:
the UEEF fought several battles on the way to tyrol, resulting in the loss of most of the zentreadi battlepods and fighter pods before they ever arrived.

and we have plenty of material on the fold drive tech.

the zentreadi warships (flagship and destroyer) have listed under their "maximum range" that they can only fold 140 (destroyer) and 180 (flagship) parsecs. and that longer trips require multiple folds.
humanity was using zentreadi fold systems for it's own ships, so 140-180 parsecs is an upper limit per fold.
the ASC's tristar cruiser, which is an example of higher end 2020's starship technology, has a fold range of 115 persecs per jump. with the exact same bit about longer trips needing multiple folds.

the SDF-1 is listed as having a 750 parsec distance, but it also has the matrix on board to provide extra power.. which the SDF-3 does not in 2022.

the SDF-4 and Shimikaze have 400-600 parsec fold distances, but those are ships built after 2042, which is the date when Louie Nichols and a UEEF team completed an improved fold drive (with the help of the Haydonites and the study of shadow technology). this is shown in the 4th issue of Prelude, and the 5th issue establishes that the UEEF was refitting their whole fleet with the new drive in time for the last push to reclaim earth from the invid.

like with history, details like this are rarely handed out all at once on a silver platter. you have to read the fine details and peice together the different bits of information.

so basically, the single fold trip is physically impossible. unless Tyrol is only a few hundred lightyears from earth.

and the idea that the flagship would go on ahead of it's fleet (which exists to defend the ship) is not only absurd, it's ******* idiotic. assumign for the moment that the SDF-3 somehow can violate the nature of the technology, that would mean the SDF-3 would arrive at tyrol.. (which earth didn't even know the exact location of) alone, against.. who knows what kind of defenses? with it's defending fleet possibly years behind it? it would be like Tsushima, only a million times worse. no commander would ever risk it.

The last bit about UEEF tactics is the funniest line here Glitterboy, they sent two waves in using the same tactics thinking they would get better results and the third wave did not fare much better. Using the Conversation with Gen R. and sparks, they were suffering heavy losses and would not last much longer. Before approving NS missile launch. Three times they used the same tactic and its only because the Invid Regess decides to leave that they win. Even with the shadow tech.

I confess I did not even think to use the Flagship in this. I have not really used the Macross or masters games. I read them and then put them aside.

But Impossible is not a word I would use in story telling in make believe land. Its whatever the plot device needs that they get to use. I do not use the HG Canon attitude when it comes to the RPG as it is a game and the game rules and setting are what I am using to play. Also the Series and Movies are so open for individual interpretation. So each group and GM to their own.

Irvin Jackson is using the novels in his writings and the first edition books. The Genesis Pit basically took First edition Invid invasion world settings as well as the return of the masters and recycle it.
But I fully agree with you. I do not see the SDF-3 leaving its fleet behind, nor do I believe they would make it to Tirol in one fold jump, especially since the Zentraedi they had with them did not even know where their home world was located.
there are so many flaws in the book. And to each GM, its gonna be a bunch of house rules on fixing them. Such as where and how far Fantoma Space is. Which route you want to use for the back ground. How many ships and what kind of ships are you considering to be in the fleet.

but when it comes to the Marines book, the SDF-3 makes the trip in one trip and does not seem to have a large fleet. after all 140 vessels is still a large fleet in the short amount of time of the humans building the pioneer fleet, in what ten years. so they could have taken every one with them. they broke their fold drives pushing it. After all they were new to this. quoting the book there.

I agree the books need to be more consistent with the writing. Macross made shadow chronicles have issues when the old outdated Veritechs were better than the new better designed Alphas. truthfully why would anyone chose to fly the Alphas over the Old VF series? as written. the Masters basicly repeated the same system as first edition and instead of following the same style of character creation system of shadow chronicles it literally recycled the southern cross book.

*Edited in - I think the old novels had the SDF-1 Jump like 9 times from where ever Zor was killed before reaching earth. but it has been a long while since i have read it. but since we are trying to figure out Fantoma space it might help.

[Kagashi]

Sigh. This book looks like it is more of a problem than anything. So many continuity errors. I cant wait to be disappointed again when I see what they changed the image of the Monster to, seeing the old art was canon in LLA.

Its not like HG has given us much material to work with. Its literally the Wildstorm comics, the original 85 episodes, LLA, and The Shadow Chronicles. Perhaps people should read/watch them before writing books.

For the years and years I waited to see this book, they sure did rush the quality of work and dropped the ball on many aspects it seems. I should get my book sometime next week to see for sure.

I do agree though, we seriously need a Spaceship book.

[glitterboy2098]

Lt.Gargoyle, there are only so many ways to assault a planet. you don;t have much choice beyond "advance closer" i mean, it's not like you can flank a planet. and you'll notice they came in as a fleet, working together.

and the UEEF did do things differently.. the 21st Mars was a much bigger fleet, came in expecting to be attacked, and had lots of Alpha's for defense. they faired better than the 10th did, but the invid defenses were just stronger than expected.

and the jupiter division at reflex point did do things differently. they landed forces using shadow cloaks to link up with the resistance and co-ordinate a ground based assault at the same time their fleet made it's move. then sent in the shadow drones to exploit the reduced ground defenses that combination created.

the UEEF was winning at reflex point, even with Scott's group turning on the shadow drones. Reinheart just got all defeatist because he didn't have enough data about the status of the ground assault, and ordered the Nuetron-S missiles in anyway. prelude establishes he didn't want to do the conventional assault at all, just nuke the planet right off the bat. Admiral Hunter overruled him.

as far as continuity goes..
HG does not recognize the novels any more, and the old RPG was atrocious regarding canon.

if your going to play in someone else's house, you play by their rules and leave things the way they left it. common decency. kids will play around and on furniture, but you don't go around rearranging the living room just because you don't like where your friends sofa is located.

in writing, this is even more important. you can sorta fill in round the edges, where you don't have anything to go on, but if you are writing for someone else in someone else's setting, you have to follow their continuity and canon. HG has established a Canon, which is quite clear. the new RPG has established some extra 'filling in' as well.

Mr. Jackson did not do this. i will be nice and assume, until proven otherwise, that he merely did not do enough research and that PB just did not communicate the details of the proposed fixes to the RAW version clearly. (since the RAW version was.. even worse in terms of getting continuity wrong, managing to even contradict itself several times.. but that is not uncommon in draft writing)

[ShadowLogan]

and the idea that the flagship would go on ahead of it's fleet (which exists to defend the ship) is not only absurd, it's ******* idiotic. assumign for the moment that the SDF-3 somehow can violate the nature of the technology, that would mean the SDF-3 would arrive at tyrol.. (which earth didn't even know the exact location of) alone, against.. who knows what kind of defenses? with it's defending fleet possibly years behind it? it would be like Tsushima, only a million times worse. no commander would ever risk it.

I have to partially agree here, but also disagree.

I disagree because we have to also remember that the SDF-3 of 2022 has an exo-skeletal hull to give it a disguise so that it can move in closer to Tyrolian defenses. This part is not idotic. It is mentioned in numerous places in some form or another that the SDF-3 was supposed to be in disguise (the nature of which changes depending on where one looks).

I would agree that the SDF-3 was the the worst possible candidate for the exo-skeletal hull (being a/the flagship of the UEEF), even if it was attempting to stack the deck to some extent in its favor by the use of the disguise.

[Lt Gargoyle]

@ Glitterboy, I am not arguing the Irvin Jackson did poor research on this one. I do not mind the Sentinels being done with the books and the Drafts of the script from the Sentinels. After all, its the only material used. The contradictions of the over all game mechanics, are all over the entire game. non of the books seem to work well with the others. Lots of recycled material for filler.

But why'll I agree on you should not change the over all story lines, When it comes to role playing, your gonna have to make changes, After all if we do not accept certain things off screen we do not see. Then I would have to agree with Seto on a number of things I do not. Such as the over all Population of earth Survival. if there was only 70k of human survivors and the Zentraedi from Breeti's fleet, there is not enough troops to even think of sending one tenth of your population to go into deep space to fight on the Master's doors. Which is why only the SDF-3 would be alone or with only two dozen or so vessels in its fleet.

And the Shadow Chronicles were just as atrocious, a serious let down. And to leave it like that was total BS. Just so you could put a live action movie deal together which no one really wants to do.
The RPG/tactics and dedicated fans are all that keep Robotech from being lost in time. So i am not surprised that HG is letting go of some of the control to the RPG again.

[Jefffar]

Just a reminder, criticism is fine and within the rules. However being outright rude or insulting in the process will be considered a violation of the rules and you may be subject to warnings or even suspension of forum privileges.

No one is expecting you to like everything that Palladium puts out, but you do need to be respectful.

[Chris0013]

per the fluff for the bioroid interceptor in the main book, they did fight. enough that the zentreadi were getting dreadfully short of battlepods by the time they reached tyrol.

presumably the enemies they fought were remnants of the zentreadi grand fleet, and surviving master's border forces.

Here's the problem with that....in the military going on a campaign like this....you would not have an order for a finite number of a plane, tank, etc...and when all those are destroyed tell the people trained in their use...sorry...you now have to retrain on something else.

[glitterboy2098]

except this was the original zentreadi battlepods and fighter pods. not the UEEF destroid pods.

the fluff for the bioroid interceptor establishes that the zentreadi were usign their regualr gear (which is in finite supply) until losses forced them to retrain to use UEEF gear. and after the UEEF reaches tyrol was when they got around to designing a new mecha specifically for zentreadi. a project that gets quickly expanded to include the tyrolians, leading to the creation of the bioroid interceptor.

this continuity problem existed in the RAW version as well.. when i sent in my list of problems, i suggested that you could do two things to fix it.

first, you could move the creation of the destroid-pods to after the liberation of Tyrol, and fluff them as part of the same program that produced the bioroid interceptor. or, and this was my preferred approach, you increase the size of the destroid pods to make them designed for full sized zentreadi pilots, designed to supplement the original pods. the latter approach however would require removing the bit about all zentreadi being forced to micronize.

however, it seems that the rather detailed explanations of canon and timeline for both HG and the existing RPG's material was ignored. otherwise we'd not be having these issues..