Marine Book, Chuck did is again!

[Alpha 11]

Got my Marine Book today, and all I can say is wow. Chuck REALLY hit it out of the park again.

[taalismn]

ARGH! My anticipation! It opens old wounds!!!

[Alpha 11]

I hope this changes the title.

Didn't work. How to I edit the title?

[Tiree]

You edit your original post, and then... change the subject

[taalismn]

Just arrived today..very happy...
A few nitpicks...I'm glad they have their 'A' team, artwise, and I'm glad to see the old Sentinels Destroids getting a better than reprint/rehash aesthetically, but it doesn't always work...The drum bombs on the MAC aren't visible, and what's that on the right pectoral of the Defender, a sensor? It looks more like a rocket-powered grappling hook, and the Spartan's laser turret looks tacked on ...
The Karbarrean body armor page looks rather skewed spacing-wise...could have padded that page out a bit more with fluff text.
Also rather wish they'd included the RAT Pegasus amongst the Sentinel equipment...and if they could have thrown in some of the concept chariots...

Butttt...lest you think I'm already bummed. no, I'm quite pleased to see updated universe info, a variety of new mecha, including more on the design evolution of the UEEF mecha and the course of the Robotech Wars. And the armies of the Regent explaining how the UEEF underestimate the Regis...
There will, of course, be more questions, such as a return to the Haydonites having been under the thumb of the Invid, and others, but hopefully future media will provide some more clues.

I'm still getting acquainted with Marines, but so far I'm pleased.

[Alpha 11]

You edit your original post, and then... change the subject

Thanks!

[AzathothXy]

The book was written by Irvin Jackson. The Darklord. A former poster.

[taalismn]

The book was written by Irvin Jackson. The Darklord. A former poster.

Good. Then he has some idea of the sort of public critical scrutiny it will undergo.

[Lt Gargoyle]

The book was written by Irvin Jackson. The Darklord. A former poster.

Good. Then he has some idea of the sort of public critical scrutiny it will undergo.

yep, so I am sure he tries to figure that in when coming onto the forums.

[Lt Gargoyle]

So i finally got my copy today. I want to say that I am enjoying a lot of what i am seeing so far. One of the things i have noticed is the time line follows the novels more then I thought it would. and i do agree with some of the others, that the images of the Destroids have a very frank-mecha feel to them. And i am not sure how i feel on them yet. But I am impressed with the Cyclones and only wish we got an updated space/hovercyclone along with a pre and current mecha gear for the Marines and the OCC's, MOS's. though that is an easy fix.

[jedi078]

So here's my pros/cons of the book:

Pro's

• I like the new look for the UEEF Destroids, although I think they should have used the names they had in the Sentinels books. Also it's quite apparent from the artwork that the UEEF Destroids should have SRM launchers in the legs and shoulders.
• I like the 1st generation cyclones. The fact that common sense was used and arm weapon are interchangeable is a great plus. IMO the arm weapon on all Cyclones are interchangeable, although it does make sense that the VR-17 Crusaders weapons are not.
• Sentinels races and their RCC's were done pretty good.
• Awesome idea with the different CVR type helmets. We need to see upgraded variants for use with the later cyclone models
• It was nice to see that the rank of E-7 Gunnery Sergeant (instead of Chief sergeant from the RAW preview) was used.
• Invid Scientist OCC is pretty good. This gives GM's a 'smart Invid' for PC's to capture, kill or interact with.

Cons

• The UEEF OCC's are not that great. I'm sure they work for some people but I see a lot of hole in the Military OCCs PB publishes. We should have just gotten ONE OCC for the UEEF Marine just like we did for the different ASC service branches in the Masters Saga book.
• Not to fond of the Z-seris destroids art work, I would have preferred them to stay the same mostly because the book itself says the Invid and other races are wary of the UEEF Zent mecha because they look like the old mecha. The new artwork doesn't look anything like a Zent design.
• Storm Commando shouldn't be an OCC by itself. It should really be an additional MOS only attainable after making it to 3rd or 4th level. Basically a character should not be a 'commando' at 1st level. He/she needs to spend some time in regular units before joining the special forces.
• Did not like the 15 pages of re-printed material (character creation, UEEF mecja from the TSC book, and Inorganics). This could have been used more wisely by palladium. Like say maybe official RPG stats for some of the new mecha from RPG Tactics? Stats for the SDF-3 and other ships that went on the pioneer mission?
• Not to fond of the three year space fold from Earth to Tirol as mentioned in the timeline. Too much loss of adventures. The time line should just have the SDF-3 spending 3 years looking for Tirol.

[glitterboy2098]

does it say it's a single fold though? a 3 year travel time could mean lots of little folds.

(plus, no ship in the RPG can fold for more than a few hundred parsecs at a go.. so a single fold would be impossible anyway)

[Lt Gargoyle]

does it say it's a single fold though? a 3 year travel time could mean lots of little folds.

(plus, no ship in the RPG can fold for more than a few hundred parsecs at a go.. so a single fold would be impossible anyway)

it says that the trip is two weeks for those in the fold. while three years pass for the universe around them.

[glitterboy2098]

oy.. talk about ignoring the rest of the RPG..

safe to say it's better to ignore that line and just have it be lots of little jumps.

[Tiree]

I feel like all the work Irvin did, would be great for first edition Robotech. It doesn't work well with the 2nd Edition that was published.

[glitterboy2098]

i feel much the same way. it is clear he didn't keep up with HG's canon as closely as he should have. i mean, he even had the sterlings and exodor on haydon IV during the shadow chronicles film.. when the (canon!) prelude comic establishes that the Sterling family was on the SDF-3 (at rick's request) to observe the Nuetron-S missile test in the omicron sector near earth.. and that Lang and Exodor are on the Duecalion runnign the N-S missile test.

sadly this means Lang and Exodor are most likely dead (since only Janice seems to have survived to be rescued by the Icarus), but it also means that the sterlings and the rest could not physically have been at Haydon IV at the same time..

[Lt Gargoyle]

For my own gaming campaign i will run the adventures as if the SDF-3 and pioneer mission is searching for Tirol. Since they have established that they do not know their location. Yes this work would have been a lot better for first edition. but its a GMs call. the truth of the Matter is I also keep Lang and Exodor in science/engineering laps aboard the SDF-3 since i think it will be better for campaign story line, and i do not count on seeing another movie for Robotech in my life time.


But I have a thought about using the Space cyclones for a more modern hover cycle we see in some line art with Marcus and Maya, and using them as the template predecessor. now i just have to find those images again.

[Chris0013]

How long did it take to get your books? I ordered this and the large Macross book last Monday and have not seen them yet.

[Alpha 11]

How long did it take to get your books? I ordered this and the large Macross book last Monday and have not seen them yet.

What way of delivery did you choose?

[Lt Gargoyle]

i went with standard delievery, got mine in less then two weeks. i did order the raw book with the express service for 10 bucks and it got to my how in 3 days on the west coast.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

sadly this means Lang and Exodor are most likely dead (since only Janice seems to have survived to be rescued by the Icarus), but it also means that the sterlings and the rest could not physically have been at Haydon IV at the same time..

Wasn't Lang in a deleted scene from Shadow Chronicles? Prelude doesn't show him on the bridge of the Deukalion (he is split screen from Exedore while talking to Cochrane).

[Chris0013]

How long did it take to get your books? I ordered this and the large Macross book last Monday and have not seen them yet.

What way of delivery did you choose?

It is coming today.

[Lt Gargoyle]

sadly this means Lang and Exodor are most likely dead (since only Janice seems to have survived to be rescued by the Icarus), but it also means that the sterlings and the rest could not physically have been at Haydon IV at the same time..

Wasn't Lang in a deleted scene from Shadow Chronicles? Prelude doesn't show him on the bridge of the Deukalion (he is split screen from Exedore while talking to Cochrane).

I want to say yes to this. But there is no proof that i can find saying they are on the Deukalion, SDF-3 or Liberty station.

[glitterboy2098]

ok, your right, but exodor was on the Duecalion (specifically called out in dialog as well as shown)

and Lang acts like he's present for the test, so at best Lang is on the SDF-3. plus he's hearing the countdown to the test which is being said by Janice (who is next to exodore), and the speech bubble is one used for in-person dialog, not the one used for communication by viewscreen. which suggests that Lang is on the duecalion, just not right next to Janice and exodore.

[Premier]

Got my Marine Book today, and all I can say is wow. Chuck REALLY hit it out of the park again.

Thank you guys/gals for all the great Support that is Robotech. Just getting back from Gen Con 2015 and there were so many awesome Robotech fans that I had the honor and pleasure of meeting; sharing memories, discussions, creative design notes and simply great conversations with. Was also thrilled to sell so many of the original artworks of the UEEF Marines to such quality fans. I know they are going to good homes.

As a huge fan of the IP, it was a true honor to partake on the assignment that has been so anticipated, plus its ROBOTECH!!!!!! I knew that it would be a major task to undertake in ushering in some new visual designs for this epic setting that has entertained and inspired so many of us. I also new that some of the designs could be hit or miss with some fans (sorry to those who don't like them), as Robotech has both a strong nostalgia flare but also has an inherited evolutionary path in design that would need to be conveyed and secured. I can say it was heartfelt and extremely humbling however, when I got such positive reviews and feedback from Harmony Gold on these new designs. Thank You Again Tommy & Steve Yune for such kind words and feedback!!!

The aesthetic was selected as a strong influence by the New Generation with some Southern Cross derivatives, with a -sleight- hint of Macross era, but certainly more leading with the New Generation era. The other important key was the Imai Files in which certain designs were designated for sourcing by the Writer and approved by Palladium & Harmony Gold. In review of the descriptions they very much seemed like the Sentinels designs, but we were also being requested to do something different than.

So I began to devise some core necessities with what the written descriptions required, what aesthetics were requested and knowing that we weren't being requested to design a whole new era within the established eras. This sort of created a semi-Frankenmecha look for some of the designs, but the fusion also conveys the evolution and design paths between the eras and were approved by Harmony Gold.

The Cyclones were an easy given and based off of designated Imai Files. For some of you that were able to purchase the Sold-Out RAW editions, you can easily see where each Cyclone with in the corresponding Imai files. BTW, I am a HUGE fan of Shinji Aramaki, so this was really an easy, inspirational and such a humbling and honoring task to tackle and keep consistent.

I did alter the VR-017 Crusader helmet to resemble the following CVR 30-50 series as I felt there needed to be some visual demonstration that evolved to the newer series helmet designs. The space helmet design for the VR-024 Nova Space Cyclone and CVR-2 Space Body Armor for the VR-20 Series were derived by me using inspirations from the AJACs and VF-1S head sensors as opposed to the larger dome space suit aesthetic that appeared in the Imai files..

The Destroids

I have listed the influences for each design accordingly. Hope you enjoy.

1. Tomahawk (MBR-05-Mk. VKII)
This Destroid exhibits a great deal of significant changes via the New Generation aesthetic & power, while still preserving that robust Destroid appeal. It wields a Heavy Particle Beam cannon on it's left forearm, but now has two hands for combat and utility. This Tomahawk has three head lasers inspired by the VF-1R with a New Generation Alpha inspiration on it. This unit's missile chest design pays homage to the Saber Cyclone. It also wields an armored gauntlet similar to the Beta fighter that houses a heavy retractable saber (similar to the saber cyclone) for engaging large mecha, ships and Invid in close encounters. This allows for the Tomahawk to slash open heavy armored targets and then fire into the exposed wound, with its array of weapons (ideally the triple head lasers or the heavy particle Beam cannon). Mounted on its back are two Missile pod boxes. In the mid-section you may also note some Southern Cross AJACs chopper components.

2. Defender ( ADR -05-Mk.XI)
This Destroid features a blend of Beta Fighter, VM-9L Silverback, Alpha fighter and Southern Cross AJACS as inspiration sources. The radar dish and sensor suite are inspired by the silverback, Beta fighter and Cat's-eye. Not to mention this pictorial reference of a forward facing sensor
The AJAC's like blades on the back are also sensor antenna blades. The triple-barrel Laser Batteries is what insures its namesake as a Defender.

3. Phalanx (SDR-05-Mk.XIII)
The Phalanx features strong inspiration from the Condor (MBR-12 Mk. II) and the Condor in the Imai files (M3-04) as a basis for the head & chest design, though this mecha is also shark inspired. The shark-like mouth opens up to reveal a missile pod as well. The heavy arm Missile Launchers are still key for this Destroid, but New Generation aesthetic inspired. The lower leg back plating cowls are inspired from Southern Cross mecha.

4. Spartan (MBR-08-Mk.III)
The Spartan is very similar to the Phalanx as they utilize the same leg components. The Heavy plating and shoulder shields are New Generation influenced from both the Alpha fighter and the gauntlet and elbow armor plating from the Beta fighter. The head is inspired from the Southern Cross AJACs chopper.

5. Monster (HWR -02-Mk. III)
Being that this huge mecha is still a Monster, but not as large as the original, it was fused with an upright humanoid position to be more mobile and handling a wider array of terrain. The head is inspired from the Southern Cross AJACs with a sleek visor and heavier armor plating.. The massive chest is inspired from the Beta Fighter, with each armored chest plate compartment housing a devastating drum bomb. The central chest hatch is inspired from the original Monster, however this hatch contains a missile launcher. The legs are a fusion of New Generation and Southern Cross (Spartas and AJACs). The forearms are also Heavy Particle Beam Cannons.

6. Valiant (MBR-12-Mk. II)
The Valiant was a nice challenge for me as far as the new UEEF mecha roster. The Imai files source was a nice foundation to build upon, but I had to fuse its design more seamlessly into the eras that it was being developed between. The sensor head was devised from the corresponding space cyclone Nova with the alpha-like antenna. The legs were a fusion between the Auroran AJACs and the Alpha fighter for armored plating
This Destroid needed to be able to convey an effective versatility within various atmospheres all the while preserving the components and some of the key design designated in the IMAI files via the Writer's notes.

7. Golem (ISB-02-Mk. I)
Reviewing the Imai file designation for this unit, gave me a good foundation to build upon via its scale, boosters, Condor styling, cockpit composition and the heavy forearm EU-9 Particle Beam Cannon with round shield. For its desired functions, these served as wonderful components. However, some parts visually resembled a little too close to Invid mecha for it to be purely UEEF design. As a HUGE fan of the New Generation Era, the very title of "Golem" made me want to deliver something that has not been done before. With Shinji Aramaki's spectacular designs however, I drafted tons of concepts pondering what could be added with what needed to be preserved. Then it hit me, a fusion between Cyclone and Destroid made for cyclone infantry field support, would be awesome. The head would not have the pilot's head in it, but would be a sensor head similar to that of a cyclone. This way the sensors are protected from the environmental conditions and some arm's fire that it might incur while providing support to the cyclone infantry. This also gave it a flare of the Spartas (minus the armored top cover for the helm, imho). The mini-missile hatches were moved up from the boosters to the chest, just over the headlight lamps, making it more reminiscent of the design path of the VR-024 Comet/VR-041H Saber with armored protection similar to the in-production Beta design. Adding the retractable Plasma blade sealed the deal for the tie into the Saber cyclone. Now the cyclone infantry had something that could go physically toe-to-toe against Invid or through ship hulls or rubble to rescue people. The legs were still sourced from my favorite Southern Cross Mecha, the VFH-10A/B AJACs with some armor plating of the Alpha fighter for that New Generation consistency. Perhaps the UeeF R/D Designers/Engineers were planning to place mini-missiles into these armored plates in future production lines, but at some point, Alphas just fulfill the role better, imo. Maybe they would have upgradeable slots for such hatches, I could easily load out one with shoulder and leg hatches, who knows? Visualizing this unit hovering among a Fire team of Cyclones is seriously planted in my mind now.

8. Battlepod (UEEF Z-Series - ZBR-01-Mk. II)
Inspired from the Battlepod's elite, this unit was fused with New Generation aesthetics and inspiration, yet preserving that Zentraedi nostalgia with the sensor eye and being slightly egg shaped (sleeker as described by the Writer) and raptor legs.

9. Officer's Battlepod (UEEF Z-Series-ZBR-02-Mk. II)
The Officer's Battle pod screams nostalgia in some cases and yet it is fused with New Generation aesthetics and a heavy dosage of Southern Cross (SPARTAS/AJACs). The legs are heavily inspired by the Spartas; having the retractable hoverjets, protective armor plating and rounded leg joints. The Forearm Particle Beam cannons/Auto Cannons having the Spartas Arm shields. The antenna that was once on the Officer Pod is now the antenna that is in the position akin to the AJACs chopper mode.

Well, that is the summary of the sources for these new designs and I hope you enjoy.

Thank you,

Chuck

[Snake Eyes]

Nice summary Premier

[Alpha 11]

Nice summary Premier

Agree!

[Sgt Anjay]

Thanks for the detailed write ups, that was really interesting

[Zer0 Kay]

They need to do the military like the military IS. You select officer or enlisted and a career field and IF you qualify and they need you, you get it. The level should be advancement in rank, either enlisted OR officer with the gain in skills along the way to mark the tier. MAYBE even follow rank structure exactly.
So for the USAF
Enlisted
Lower enlisted tier (airmen) Basic military skills
lvl 1 Airmen Basic
lvl 2 Airmen
lvl 3 Airmen First Class
lvl 4 Senior Airmen
Non-Commissioned Officer Tier (Sergeant) leadership skills!!
lvl 5 Staff Sergeant
lvl 6 Technical Sergeant
Upper Enlisted Tier NCO (Master Sergeant) Operational/Administrative skills
lvl 7 Master Sergeant
lvl 8 Senior Master Sergeant
lvl 9 Chief Master Sergeant

now if we want it to go to 15 like every other class put extra levels in the ones before the ranks that are harder to obtain.
E-1 lvl 1
E-2 lvl 2
E-3 lvl 3
E-4 lvl 4-5
----------------
E-5 lvl 6-8
E-6 lvl 9
----------------
E-7 lvl 10-11
E-8 lvl 12-14
E-9 lvl 15

That would make for a long time for skills though at 6th and 10th

[Sgt Anjay]

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

[Chronicler]

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

Thanks for the ideas.

[Lt Gargoyle]

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

Thanks for the ideas.

lol I would love to see the look on the players faces as you ran this.

[taalismn]

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

And that is PRECISELY when the enemy will attack, tipped off by the infiltrator/sympathizer/simulagent that the micronian military is under Powerpoint Paralysis.

The presentation? "The Perils of Sock Elastic Fatigue'.

[Alpha 11]

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

Thanks for the ideas.

NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

Thanks for the ideas.

lol I would love to see the look on the players faces as you ran this.

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

And that is PRECISELY when the enemy will attack, tipped off by the infiltrator/sympathizer/simulagent that the micronian military is under Powerpoint Paralysis.

The presentation? "The Perils of Sock Elastic Fatigue'.

[abtex]

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

from another forum
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clint
I don't want to hijack the thread with my service stories, but I guess it's ok if it contains tank information. Sorry if it's too much Clay

Like I said, I got moved alot between units. One was the tank instructors cuorse. As some of you know, the IDF has female soldiers, and some are placed in combat units. Not in armor. I know they tried putting some girls in tank commanders course back in 2005, but none made it to the end. I guess it has to do with the physical aspect. Anyway that brings us armor school, where all the instructors are girls.

But they still need to go through boot camp. That's where I come in.

So I was going through drivers, in tank driving 101, August in the desert, hot as hell. I't about noon, when I think that we'll probably need to stop training and stay in the shade. The company has three tanks, each with a commander and a driver, doing runs. I get to the tent where the rest of the girls are waiting for thier turn. Suddenly I hear what I think is a tank nearby firing it's main gun. I'm thinking, "wait, there isn't anyone else training today"...

I get hit in the face with such a powerful rain I feel like I got hit with a fire hose. Naturally the tent is ******, and all the girls run like headless chickens to find shelter from the rain. The company commander (another female instructor) tells them to find shelter in the tanks. But mine is the only one there.

Ended up with a tank full of soaking wet girls.

Yes, "last thingI want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day""
IDF girls
your tank 'crew'

[Lt Gargoyle]

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

from another forum
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clint
I don't want to hijack the thread with my service stories, but I guess it's ok if it contains tank information. Sorry if it's too much Clay

Like I said, I got moved alot between units. One was the tank instructors cuorse. As some of you know, the IDF has female soldiers, and some are placed in combat units. Not in armor. I know they tried putting some girls in tank commanders course back in 2005, but none made it to the end. I guess it has to do with the physical aspect. Anyway that brings us armor school, where all the instructors are girls.

But they still need to go through boot camp. That's where I come in.

So I was going through drivers, in tank driving 101, August in the desert, hot as hell. I't about noon, when I think that we'll probably need to stop training and stay in the shade. The company has three tanks, each with a commander and a driver, doing runs. I get to the tent where the rest of the girls are waiting for thier turn. Suddenly I hear what I think is a tank nearby firing it's main gun. I'm thinking, "wait, there isn't anyone else training today"...

I get hit in the face with such a powerful rain I feel like I got hit with a fire hose. Naturally the tent is ******, and all the girls run like headless chickens to find shelter from the rain. The company commander (another female instructor) tells them to find shelter in the tanks. But mine is the only one there.

Ended up with a tank full of soaking wet girls.

Yes, "last thingI want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day""
IDF girls
your tank 'crew'

well if i have to suffer with the tank girls, i will take one for the team.

[Zer0 Kay]

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

No, but the military plays a much larger role in RT than BTS or even N&S, even more than Rifts. And having officer ranks as a higher level of the same class you started out as enlisted in is stupid.

Besides what makes you think that 1-4 does yard work? In game you are playing during war time and there is very little menial labor going on. There is always maint and if you don't like maint, don't play a maintainer... Duh. The enlisted are the back bone of any branch and though one should not be piloting they could be a crewman of a destroid.

[Zer0 Kay]

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

Thanks for the ideas.

NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

Thanks for the ideas.

lol I would love to see the look on the players faces as you ran this.

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

And that is PRECISELY when the enemy will attack, tipped off by the infiltrator/sympathizer/simulagent that the micronian military is under Powerpoint Paralysis.

The presentation? "The Perils of Sock Elastic Fatigue'.

Death by PowerPoint eh?
Trust me I put them out of their misery.
Huh?
The guy had at LEAST thirty bullets per slide.

[Alpha 11]

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

Thanks for the ideas.

NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

Thanks for the ideas.

lol I would love to see the look on the players faces as you ran this.

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

And that is PRECISELY when the enemy will attack, tipped off by the infiltrator/sympathizer/simulagent that the micronian military is under Powerpoint Paralysis.

The presentation? "The Perils of Sock Elastic Fatigue'.

Death by PowerPoint eh?
Trust me I put them out of their misery.
Huh?
The guy had at LEAST thirty bullets per slide.

[Sgt Anjay]

This isn't a military simulation game.

Thank goodness too, the last thing I want is my GM to run the super-exciting "maintenance day" or "yard work" adventures for lvl 1-4 characters.

"Your E-6 is on slide 1,254 of the powerpoint presentation. Roll Physical Endurance to stay awake"

No, but the military plays a much larger role in RT than BTS or even N&S, even more than Rifts. And having officer ranks as a higher level of the same class you started out as enlisted in is stupid.

You...do realize Rick (and Max and Ben) start off as enlisted pilots before being commissioned? And that in the real world, especially during total wars, survival and exceptional service has made that jump doable if rare (i.e. battlefield commission)?

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't say the game as is has an especially realistic take on what different ranks mean and do...but of course, neither does Robotech. Still and all, there's only so far you can take the realism before it gets in the way of the game, especially if you tie in rank with level. "Ok guys, you all hit level 6, so you're Sergeants and get shuffled off to different platoons with open NCO slots and admin responsibilities over the lower enlisted under you and..."

Besides what makes you think that 1-4 does yard work? In game you are playing during war time and there is very little menial labor going on.

Uh.

Nope.

There's a reason the old saying goes that war is "Months of boredom punctuated by moments of terror". In garrison sure, yard work is lawn mowing and weeding and raking and police calls and whatnot. Over There the yard work is filling sandbags, digging fighting positions or trenches or whatever other site improvement there is to do to keep E1-4s occupied.

There is always maint and if you don't like maint, don't play a maintainer... Duh.

"Hey sergeant, I'm not a maintainer, so I get out of PMCS/PMI, right?"
LOL

The enlisted are the back bone of any branch and though one should not be piloting they could be a crewman of a destroid.

Well except there's precedence both real-world and in Robotech of enlisted pilots, though of course not as standard practice. Still, attrition is a hell of a thing.

And that'd only apply to aircraft. Because of course destroids, battloids, Spartas, and Myrmidons should all have enlisted operators as they're the next generation(s) of armored fighting vehicles.

Honestly I'm not trying to be super critical, the current handling of rank in the game is sketchy. But realism needs to be balanced with playability and game needs, yes? And this is not a simple task, getting complicated very quickly the more in-depth you go.

[taalismn]

Minor beef about Chuck's artwork for the destroids...some of the far arms on the side facing away from the POV suffer from some poor perspective and scaling issues....the top of the shoulder plates/planes don't always match up with the assumed jointing of the arms below them, unless the upper shoulders are freefloating. In one case, the Defender's right shoulder seems to have swallowed up a substantial part of the middle of the gun arm, and there's no evidence on the closer arm that the shoulder 'box' can actually retract any of the tribarrel array back into itself. .
And in another case, unless the arm-mounted gun muzzle is cut at an angle to have a protruding 'lip', it's not matching up to the rest of the weapon(the fins on the gun's back are curiously of equal length, when perspective should have one appear slightly longer/higher than the other).
Just some technical art nitpicks.

[cawest]

i also enjoyed this book I have no issues with the reprinted info. that way you only need one book to play... my one issue is that they were talking about space pirates, space station, and landing ships but we did not even get so much as look at one. it would have been nice to see how the troops make to the ground or what space station might look like or might mount. maybe in the next book

[slade the sniper]

They need to do the military like the military IS. You select officer or enlisted and a career field and IF you qualify and they need you, you get it. The level should be advancement in rank, either enlisted OR officer with the gain in skills along the way to mark the tier. MAYBE even follow rank structure exactly.
So for the USAF
Enlisted
Lower enlisted tier (airmen) Basic military skills
lvl 1 Airmen Basic
lvl 2 Airmen
lvl 3 Airmen First Class
lvl 4 Senior Airmen
Non-Commissioned Officer Tier (Sergeant) leadership skills!!
lvl 5 Staff Sergeant
lvl 6 Technical Sergeant
Upper Enlisted Tier NCO (Master Sergeant) Operational/Administrative skills
lvl 7 Master Sergeant
lvl 8 Senior Master Sergeant
lvl 9 Chief Master Sergeant

I'm pretty sure this is kind of what Palladium assumes for RIFTS. In Coalition War Campaign, they give the rank/level benchmarks. Also, if you map out the levels and ranks of the protagonists in RIFTS: Mercenaries and the ROBOTECH books, it sort of follows this progression. The officer ranks follow the same progression from O1 = 1st level to O-10 = 10th level. Granted if you remember that it takes 30 years minimum to make it to be a 4-star, 10 levels isn't that crazy. Also, remember that in Palladium, a level is only relevant in comparison to other characters of the same class, there is little equivalency between a 10th level veritech pilot and a 10th level urchin.

-STS

[Kagashi]

i also enjoyed this book I have no issues with the reprinted info. that way you only need one book to play... my one issue is that they were talking about space pirates, space station, and landing ships but we did not even get so much as look at one. it would have been nice to see how the troops make to the ground or what space station might look like or might mount. maybe in the next book

Except half the stuff reprinted was in the core book you needed anyway... If they were going to reprint something, do the VHT which is NOT a required book, but had elements mentioned in this book...

What's worse, they reprinted word-for-word the Bioroid Interceptor, which was in direct continuity contradiction of the Z Series Destroids history. At least update it so the damn story matches. Lazy...absolutely lazy work.

[Scorpion Leader]

Sorry to disagree but over all I was more than a Little Bit Disappointed in the Marines Sourcebook. But most of it is personal Nits with One Very Glaring Exception!! It mkes me wonder where The QCC of Palladium and Most of All Harmony Gold went regarding Official ROBOTECH CANON!! My biggest problem other than Chuck Walton's Interior Art Work for a good chunk of the Mecha Designs( Don't get me wrong he is a great artist, I just don't feel his Style really captured the look and feel of ROBOTECH) is the MAC II Monster. I can find No references of it ever being Redesigned as a Humanoid Style/Battloid Design!! It does not follow the animation model sheets for the MAC III Mini Monster and also with the Release of the OV for Live Love Alive which Shows (A variation of ?? Note: For some reason it only had one Cannon on top of the Mecha and not three , besides the arm Partial Beams)The MAC III Mini Monster pretty much looking the same as the Original Animation Model Sheets and also as shown in Palladium's original ROBOTECH Rpg The Sentinels Source Book; which makes that the actual CANON Design!! I don't where this design came from but from what I can tell it is Not from Official Source Material and clearly a author and artist creation. Granted the is plenty of stuff created that is NON-CANON or Pseudo CANON allowed by HG in the context of the Rpg, but this one where it exists within the Offical Canon and should have been in Direct Relation to it!!
Besides as done up in the Marines Sourcebook this Mecha would Totally Fall over Backwards prone to ground, Every Time it Fired of the Main Cannons; unless it of course has an Anti-Sway Pylon System like the GlitterBoys do in Rifts. However there is No mention of such a system in the Stats write up. Overall though most of the Technical stuff regarding dimensions and armaments mostly remains the same as the Original ROBOTECH Rpg Sentinels Sourcebook material and Animatics Model Sheets, its just the Humanoid/Battloid form that falls into question. The other good news is it is written up as being part of the Original MAC II line as it says it is a MAC II Monster and Not a MAC-III (as noted as Officially Seen in Live Love Alive); so maybe we can assume that this was a Failed and Prohibitively Expensive (as actually noted in the Marines Sourcebook, the Expensive part that is) Experimental Design replaced by the more familiar MAC III (official canon) design. Please note the only thing I can think of or have seen that remotely resembles the MAC II as presented in the Marines Sourcebook is a Invid Heavy Artillery Motar Scout (I think this was in the Invid Invasion Video Game and perhaps even in the prelude to the Shadow Chronicles Comics) and possibly somewhere a Beta Fighter in Battloid mode redesigned with Heavy Cannons on Top in place of the Sensor Pod.
Other than the MAC (I'd have to go double check) there might be some minor issues with the Titan. But that may be again just with the artwork rendering.
I will say this the one thing I did Love was the APC Design that Sucker is Wickedly Cool!!

[Seto Kaiba]

It mkes me wonder where The QCC of Palladium and Most of All Harmony Gold went regarding Official ROBOTECH CANON!!

What canon? All of the various depictions of the Sentinels story arc were kicked out of canon a decade or more ago when the continuity was rebooted. Harmony Gold's only acknowledgement that some events of Sentinels are still valid was to say that the "broad strokes" of the plot still apply (there is a SDF-3, Pioneer Mission, went to Tirol, etc.) but the details of any depiction are not applicable and may be contradicted by new canon.

(The timeline problems are the result of the author using a pre-reboot timeline based on the non-canon comics, apparently for want of any official guidance on the timing of events from the Sentinels series.)

My biggest problem other than Chuck Walton's Interior Art Work for a good chunk of the Mecha Designs( Don't get me wrong he is a great artist, I just don't feel his Style really captured the look and feel of ROBOTECH) is the MAC II Monster. I can find No references of it ever being Redesigned as a Humanoid Style/Battloid Design!! It does not follow the animation model sheets for the MAC III Mini Monster and also with the Release of the OV for Live Love Alive which Shows [...]

I don't believe Harmony Gold has actually confirmed that the blurry background mecha in their cut-up version of Love Live Alive is meant to be the Monster Destroid from the aborted Sentinels series. With all depictions of Sentinels left on the cutting room floor, they may be reusing the design (or a similar design) for some other purpose.

There is no canon design for any of the Sentinels destroids, so while I share your feelings on the stylistic problems with the art there really is no contradiction there from a purely official-canon standpoint.

[glitterboy2098]

first, please learn to use punctuation. your post is not just a rambling run on sentence, it's a rambling run on paragraph. which makes it very difficult to understand what you are saying.

second, Mr. Walton has indicated that the instruction to draw new artwork came from Harmony Gold itself, so your assertion that the new art goes against 'canon' is questionable, since the determiners of what is Canon are the ones who dictated it be done.

Third, the new artwork actually makes the mecha more stylistic integrated to the known UEEF designs, unlike the previous artwork.

While the book has its problems (the timeline comes to mind, as well as some of the related materials to it), i don't think the mecha are one of them.

[jaymz]

I agree with Jedi above....a bunch of reprinted material was a waste and could have been pages better used for things like the YF-4, the Jotun, the VEF-1, maybe the "new" Zentraedi Mech Variants as an alternative opponent to the UEG forces...

[Scorpion Leader]

New Art Work does Not necessarily mean Complete Make Over/Redesign from established Canon which was Established by HG themselves. Slight changes maybe, as most where, except the MAC. Then again HG did give it a pass for whatever reason. But Then again HG and Palladium did dig themselves a huge Hole though Regarding the MAC II/MAC III Mini-Monster; The MAC did appear in the later form, briefly in the opening scenes of the Live Love Alive OV from HG. There is No Dening that!! Which makes the MAC as it appears in the Marines Sourcebook Null and Void. So how is that going to get corrected then?? Even though I don't like the artwork over all (as It Is More Iinconsistent then some of the other Artists in look and feel of Robotech on Screen, In the Prelude Comic Books, and Even the other Rpg books) overall they are not that far off from the original designs. The MAC is the only one that really Misses the Mark, especially due to it's Established appearance in the afore mentioned Live Love Alive OV which is Officially from HG and Official ROBOTECH Material. You just can't get around that fact!! I don't know when the Manuscript went in for the Marines Sourcebook but it was, correct me if I'm wrong here, after Live Love Alive hit the marke that the book came out. Therefore a correction should of been made, if possible, before it was too far down the pipe line. Now we have a Mecha that conflicts with itself as to its offical look on Screen and in the Marines Sourcebook. Nuff said.

[Seto Kaiba]

New Art Work does Not necessarily mean Complete Make Over/Redesign from established Canon which was Established by HG themselves.

As noted in my last post, the line of reasoning you're pursuing here ignores the fundamental fact that there is no canon where the Sentinels story arc is concerned. Harmony Gold summarily removed all the Sentinels material from the canon back in 2006, when they ejected all of the pre-2001 comics, novels, etc. citing poor quality and a lack of editorial oversight on their part.

Then again HG did give it a pass for whatever reason. But Then again HG and Palladium did dig themselves a huge Hole though Regarding the MAC II/MAC III Mini-Monster; The MAC did appear in the later form, briefly in the opening scenes of the Live Love Alive OV from HG. There is No Dening that!!

Nah, the blurry, indistinct mecha in their version of Love Live Alive has never been officially identified as the unused Monster destroid from Robotech II: the Sentinels... and the design doesn't actually match the Sentinels Monster's, even if the old unused Sentinels design hadn't been decanonized a decade ago. So what we see in Love Live Alive is clearly not the UEEF's Monster destroid.

Which makes the MAC as it appears in the Marines Sourcebook Null and Void. So how is that going to get corrected then??

They don't have to, because the Sentinels design isn't canon.

The book has some glaring problems, but the Destroid designs aren't one... at least, in terms of the art used.