Invid Armor; is there anything to it?

[Sparticus]

So I have been wondering is there anything to Invid Armor. The armor used by the Invid is quite unique given that as far as I can tell and on most fan sight to support the robotech RPG the Invid’s armor is a blend of advanced composite of metals, ceramics, and organics. The armor is also more heavily sloped than any other armor I have seen in the game which lead me to wonder is a type of resistance to kinetic weaponry or what naught warranted? I have read on how a number or real world armors both real and theorized work and given that sloping armor is a good wat to defuse kinetic impacts from high velocity weaponry I have to wonder. Also if ceramics are mixed in might they bere some resistance to laser weaponry if the ceramics were laser resistant ceramics.

Just something I have pondered when watching the Next Generation show and seeing many ballistic weapons having little effects on the Invid unless a missile swarm or an eye shot. After all I saw Scott pelt a trooper or shock trooper with a missile swarm from the alpha a couple of time and both can out relatively unscathed. Not to mentions those arm shields the trooper, shock trooper and command battloid have just seem to shrug off missile and cannon fire like water off a ducks back. It could just be the lazy writing magic of the 80’s which gave us such incredible and downright silly feats seen in shows like He-Man and Thundercats or because the plot demands it at the time but at the same time for Invid Armor to have such resistances particularly to kinetic have a real world basses for comparison.

Now to be clear I am not and I repeat not asking for suggestions on how much of a resistance or any other game type statistic, convention and whatnot I am just curious to get people’s opinions if there is anything to Invid Armor possessing such a trait or anything of the like.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

The armor is also more heavily sloped than any other armor I have seen in the game which lead me to wonder is a type of resistance to kinetic weaponry or what naught warranted?

Well, IIRC, we do see an Invid Shocktrooper in Eulogy put up its massive paw to completely deflect one of the rocket-propelled grenades that Rook shoots at it, with no resulting damage to the mecha in question. Its something that the RPG (sadly) does a very poor job of modeling because we see the Bioroids (Southern Cross, Volunteers) capable of withstanding several hits from the Spartas and Logan's gunpods, but being hulled completely with a main cannon or tri-barreled blast from either mecha.

The fact is that MDC as it currently exists does not model the show in any way, shape or form. In all honesty, MDC by Location should probably represent a Resistance Target Number. In other words, roll that much on a "damage check" to overcome the mecha's innate structure to damage it. A roll that is under the TN means no damage to the mecha, while exceeding the number penetrates the armor (the more the damage check exceeds the TN, the more damaged the mecha becomes). Things like glacis/sloping armor or The Army of the Southern Cross mecha's ablative armor and such could potentially be game changers for some mecha, giving them inherent resistances to specific weapons which are almost impossible to overcome. Would certainly make for a more interesting system.....

[Seto Kaiba]

The armor used by the Invid is quite unique given that as far as I can tell and on most fan sight to support the robotech RPG the Invid’s armor is a blend of advanced composite of metals, ceramics, and organics.

AFAIK, there's nothing in any official source about the composition of the armor the Invid use... in the original MOSPEADA, the setting is rather fuzzy about how much of the Inbit mecha were actually mechanical and how much of it was actually alive.

The armor is also more heavily sloped than any other armor I have seen in the game which lead me to wonder is a type of resistance to kinetic weaponry or what naught warranted? I have read on how a number or real world armors both real and theorized work and given that sloping armor is a good wat to defuse kinetic impacts from high velocity weaponry I have to wonder.

Doubtful, IMO, in the Robotech setting... of the Invid's known foes, it's only the humans who really make extensive use of non-energy weapons. In the original story, their configuration was principally because their goal was to evolve and they'd initially opted to model the latest phase of their development upon Earth's insect societies.

The Invid's armor isn't so much sloped as curved, which means it's probably not intended for the same purpose sloped armor is in the real world. I think its effectiveness is mostly down to how light the weapons the characters are using are. Except for the really heavy stuff like that 60mm laser rifle, they're almost anti-personnel weapons.

[say652]

So an Armor Rating so to speak would make more sense in mdc combat.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

So an Armor Rating so to speak would make more sense in mdc combat.

Possibly. Or MDC as Armor Rating.....

[drewkitty ~..~]

Animation.....it is much harder to draw in damage then just skipping drawing the damage in. It is like they don't show any damage till the damage is lethal or the damage is catastrophic. (I thought there was something like this in KS's Tables of Doom but couldn't find it.) So it is the rare that you see any damage on mecha or cuts or bruises (except a hand shaped ones on males) on people in animation

[say652]

So an Armor Rating so to speak would make more sense in mdc combat.

Possibly. Or MDC as Armor Rating.....

I like the armor rating system, md vs mdc should have an Ar.

[Sparticus]

One of the big reason I started to think about this was because of the Robotech episode 68 Eulogy. In this episode we see Invid Troops and shock trooper completely unaffected by small arms fire from the two unnamed solders with Gallant pistols before they are vaporized. Furthermore we see the ineffectiveness of such weapons against the same type of Invid troops even in the hands of Scott Bernard, Rook and Rand. It is not until they use there cyclones that they can even damage these mechs and Rand does so with an eye shot but most of the rockets fired by Scott and Rook just seem to be deflected off the forearm shields with no damage and even Rooks body shot to a shock trooper seems to do little. Even when Col. Wolf uses salvoes from the Alpha the Shock Trooper he is shooting at just takes the barrage with no visible sines of damage even though it took several hits. It’s the 80mm beam cannon of the Alpha and Wolf using clever maneuvers to get eye hits or to get the Invid shot by friendly fire that destroys most of them.

[say652]

I use lots of heroes unlimited things in my rifts games.
The AR mechanic fits in seamlessly.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

I like the armor rating system, md vs mdc should have an Ar.

The problem is that doesn't fix the way the RPG doesn't simulate the show. It merely adds another layer of problems. AR is based on the Strike Roll. The Invid (and Bioroids) shrugging off damage is about the armor resisting penetration. That puts the focus on the damage end, not the strike end.

One of the big reason I started to think about this was because of the Robotech episode 68 Eulogy. In this episode we see Invid Troops and shock trooper completely unaffected by small arms fire from the two unnamed solders with Gallant pistols before they are vaporized.

Todd and Wilson, actually.

[Colonel Wolfe]

One of the big reason I started to think about this was because of the Robotech episode 68 Eulogy. In this episode we see Invid Troops and shock trooper completely unaffected by small arms fire from the two unnamed solders with Gallant pistols before they are vaporized.

Todd and Wilson, actually.

They were good men...sad i sold them up the river...

I did do an awesome job kicking that one Invid in the eye though...

[Jefffar]

The MDC mechanic is, at it's heart,a damage soak mechanic highly simplified. It worked reasonably well when first introduced, but those were the days in which hand weapons didn't do MDC and the toughest body armours could only absorb 2 MD before being atomized.

I've long felt that armour (body armour, vehicle armour, natural armour, whatever) is better modelled by a more robust damage soak style mechanic.

[Kagashi]

I agree. The show even goes into detail when the 15th was studying armor from a fallen bioroid and were observing how many direct hits the unit could take and still function. I do not think the 150-250 MDC the RPG allocates to bioroids is representative of the narrative of the show. There should have been some kind of mechanic stating that the first 40 MDC of every shot did no damage what-so-ever or something like that. That way, a hover tank doing 3D6X10 per shot would still have to hit even a standard bioroid the number of times the show describes, even if they only have 150 MDC.

Then again, the show clearly shows Dana and Bowie using hand held weapons while riding hover cycles (the RPG would say they would be shooting wild) and taking out bioroids in one shot which does not support the narrative I speak about in the previous paragraph either.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Then again, the show clearly shows Dana and Bowie using hand held weapons while riding hover cycles (the RPG would say they would be shooting wild) and taking out bioroids in one shot which does not support the narrative I speak about in the previous paragraph either.

Except we clearly see Dana making an aimed shot with her blaster rifle in that scene in Half Moon. The faceplate of the Bioroid is its weak spot (like the Invid mecha's Sensor Eye and Thruster Pack is in The New Generation) and can be penetrated by small arms fire. We see Bioroids shrugging off small arms fire that DOESN'T hit the faceplate in Crisis Point. The problem now is that 1000 soldiers with Gallant H-90 pistols could vaporize the SDF-01 with the rules as written.....

[Colonel Wolfe]

Going by the Narrative on screen for how many hit its takes... the strength of a mecha is based on the pilot...
140 VF's are destroyed on screen with single hits.... when piloted by non-named pilots, Rick survives a full-on Daedalus hit and gets a mild concussion and some trippy dreams...
Dana and Zor-prime in their units both survive damage and hit that would have killed hundreds of their respective mecha....
Scott's 2nd Alpha survives the entire series until Corg takes it out in the last episodes.. and all he got was a small bruise on his fore-head..
so I can't follow that there are any amount of real-physics involved in any of the eras dealing with how tough one mecha is v. another...

[Tiree]

I agree with you Wolfe, I have a feeling a new mechanic would work well. One that basically lets people who are in no armor survive near hits of MDC blasts, to Mecha taking even more than normal. But I doubt it will ever make it past a rifter article

[camk4evr]

In my campaign mook class threats were referred to as "popcorn" because they popped with one hit. More important enemies had half the listed MDC while aces and major enemies had full MDC. If the dice favoured and opponent (he kept successfully dodging) he'd be upgraded to the next level becoming the next potential ace pilot