Bat or Spider

[SittingBull]

Are there printed or custom rules for making mutant bats or spiders?

Thank you

[say652]

The Mutant Bat from Lonestar could serve as a template and in England the Dabuggah have can have several spiderlike abilities.
I know its not for your game but it may help

[SittingBull]

Thank you. Let me be more specific. Mutant bat or spiders as per TMNT creation rules.

Thank you

[say652]

I frequently use mutant animals as menaces, and my "cheat" is use the Alien power category to get appearance then add in what you want.

For a bat.
Demonic appearance twilight home world.

For a spider humanoid insect jungle home world.

Why its not perfect it saves a whole bunch of frustration and information gathering.

[Shark_Force]

there is a bat in the core after the bomb book. also one in yucatan i think.

spider... well, there's a spider goat in after the bomb. it's kinda creepy though. anyways, you could probably just remove the "goat" part with almost no changes required, to be honest. just lower the size level, mostly.

[SittingBull]

Dont have those books but thank you.

[Glistam]

Mutants in Orbit has mutant bugs - it might have spiders too, I don't remember but it's worth a look.

[CyCo]

There were a couple different bats in Mutants of the Yucatan, Disc-Winged Bat, False Vampire Bat, Fisherman Bat, and Vampire Bat. There is a bat in the After the Bomb RPG, but you could use the ones from Yucatan as ideas to make different species rather than the generic bat given in the book.

Mutant spiders on the other hand, you have less options. There is a mutant spider in Mutants Down Under, the Wolf Spider, but it's basically only a war mount. It's size level 16!! That's a bloody huge spider!!

There are other insects in Mutants Down Under and Mutants in Avalon. But all of these are simply beasts of burden or riding mounts. There are indeed more mutant insects in Mutants in Orbit, but these are statted out as optional player characters. No spiders though.

Also bear in mind that these are all spec'ed out with TMNT stats, and not the expanded version found in the After the Bomb RPG.

As a suggestion, you could use either the mutant ant, or maybe even the mutant preying mantis (scary critters those!!), and add in details from the mutant wolf spider from Mutants Down Under, then look at the list of additional mutant animal powers & vestigial disadvantages in After the Bomb.

Then there's the topic; Rathorc's New Mutants. I can't remember, but you might find a mutant spider in there. It wouldn't be official, but still will give you an idea where to go with it, that is if there is a mutant spider in that topic.

I know that's not perfect as you don't have some of the books. Check out eBay, Amazon or Noble Knight Games, they sometimes pop up there.

EDIT: Ok, after a little data mining, I found that someone (quite possibly, Kuseru Satsujin who's left our forums) had already done up some mutant spiders for After the Bomb in the New Mutant Animals thread. Also, some of the different bats have been converted to After the Bomb here. Again, not cannon.

[SittingBull]

Thank you.

[Rathorc Lemenger]

Stats for Bats in the main AtB2 book and there's stats for Spiders in Rifter #29.

Signed,
Rathorc Lemenger.

[SittingBull]

Stats for Bats in the main AtB2 book and there's stats for Spiders in Rifter #29.

Signed,
Rathorc Lemenger.

Rifter #29 I do have. Thank you.

\m/_ -.- _\m/

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

There is also a bat in the standard TMNT&OS book. And as has been mentioned, different species of Bat in Mutants of the Yucatan.
But yeah, like Rathorc said, Spiders in Rifter 29

[SittingBull]

Is it just me or do the two spiders mutant animals, in rifter #29, have no way to climb more than a normal human can? Or is it just assumed?

[Rathorc Lemenger]

I believe they left it open for interpretation by both G.M.'s and Players.

Signed,
Rathorc Lemenger.

[SittingBull]

Interpretation how? Automatic ability?

[SittingBull]

Wow, no comments or opinions on this topic here or in other places.

[Daniel Stoker]

I'd offer an opinion but I'm not a Rifter fan and don't have that issue.


Daniel Stoker

[SittingBull]

The mutant spider doesnt offer ANY ability to allow climbing or adhesion nor does their write up mention being automatically able to do it.

[CyCo]

Well, not all spiders can climb. So maybe that's the reason? No idea, I don't own many Rifters.

[SittingBull]

But Cyco, even the web-building spiders have no mention (in rules or in write up) for their ability to climb.

[Tor]

This thread...

If there is an ability you want which is not purchaseable under the species layout, you could always cover the base with a super ability (the minor Adhesion comes to mind) using the rules for TMNT Adventures (or HU2) allowing bio-E to be exchanged for some super abilities.

[SittingBull]

But how much would it cost a spider mutant? 5?

[Razorwing]

You also have to remember how most spiders are able to climb such surfaces.

Remember, most spiders are rather small (one could even say tiny) in comparison to humans, and as such can take advantage of flaws in surfaces that we can't due to our size. Thus, when a mutant spider reaches human size, they too won't be able to take advantage of those same surface flaws that their smaller, normal brethren still can.

It really is a matter or perspective and proportion... what appears to be a thread thin piece of webbing to us would be the equivalent of a braided rope to a tiny spider. What appears to be a smooth wall to us has barely perceptible flaws that a tiny spider can easily make use of for climbing. Thus when that tiny spider is mutated to our size, those surfaces that were so easy for it to climb when it was small now become much more difficult since it can no longer take advantage of those miniscule flaws... it has grown too big to climb with the same ease it had when small.

[SittingBull]

You also have to remember how most spiders are able to climb such surfaces.

Remember, most spiders are rather small (one could even say tiny) in comparison to humans, and as such can take advantage of flaws in surfaces that we can't due to our size. Thus, when a mutant spider reaches human size, they too won't be able to take advantage of those same surface flaws that their smaller, normal brethren still can.

It really is a matter or perspective and proportion... what appears to be a thread thin piece of webbing to us would be the equivalent of a braided rope to a tiny spider. What appears to be a smooth wall to us has barely perceptible flaws that a tiny spider can easily make use of for climbing. Thus when that tiny spider is mutated to our size, those surfaces that were so easy for it to climb when it was small now become much more difficult since it can no longer take advantage of those miniscule flaws... it has grown too big to climb with the same ease it had when small.

I would go along with this IF the mutant spiders, the web spinners, couldn't spin web. I thought spiders climbed due to tiny hair like hooks that could hook onto all but the smoothest surfaces. If so, then that same process should still work.

[Nightmask]

You also have to remember how most spiders are able to climb such surfaces.

Remember, most spiders are rather small (one could even say tiny) in comparison to humans, and as such can take advantage of flaws in surfaces that we can't due to our size. Thus, when a mutant spider reaches human size, they too won't be able to take advantage of those same surface flaws that their smaller, normal brethren still can.

It really is a matter or perspective and proportion... what appears to be a thread thin piece of webbing to us would be the equivalent of a braided rope to a tiny spider. What appears to be a smooth wall to us has barely perceptible flaws that a tiny spider can easily make use of for climbing. Thus when that tiny spider is mutated to our size, those surfaces that were so easy for it to climb when it was small now become much more difficult since it can no longer take advantage of those miniscule flaws... it has grown too big to climb with the same ease it had when small.

I would go along with this IF the mutant spiders, the web spinners, couldn't spin web. I thought spiders climbed due to tiny hair like hooks that could hook onto all but the smoothest surfaces. If so, then that same process should still work.

Doing a quick look-up on Spiders the entry says that those that can climb things like glass do so due to extremely fine tufts on their feet effectively adhering to the surface due to water tension, which would mean you couldn't have a very large mutant spider (or spider in general) that could climb because it would simply weigh too much to do so. There are many things small creatures can do only because they're small and that can't be scaled up.

[Razorwing]

You also have to remember how most spiders are able to climb such surfaces.

Remember, most spiders are rather small (one could even say tiny) in comparison to humans, and as such can take advantage of flaws in surfaces that we can't due to our size. Thus, when a mutant spider reaches human size, they too won't be able to take advantage of those same surface flaws that their smaller, normal brethren still can.

It really is a matter or perspective and proportion... what appears to be a thread thin piece of webbing to us would be the equivalent of a braided rope to a tiny spider. What appears to be a smooth wall to us has barely perceptible flaws that a tiny spider can easily make use of for climbing. Thus when that tiny spider is mutated to our size, those surfaces that were so easy for it to climb when it was small now become much more difficult since it can no longer take advantage of those miniscule flaws... it has grown too big to climb with the same ease it had when small.

I would go along with this IF the mutant spiders, the web spinners, couldn't spin web. I thought spiders climbed due to tiny hair like hooks that could hook onto all but the smoothest surfaces. If so, then that same process should still work.

Doing a quick look-up on Spiders the entry says that those that can climb things like glass do so due to extremely fine tufts on their feet effectively adhering to the surface due to water tension, which would mean you couldn't have a very large mutant spider (or spider in general) that could climb because it would simply weigh too much to do so. There are many things small creatures can do only because they're small and that can't be scaled up.

Precisely... a human-sized mutant spider would need a proportionally larger surface area to apply such a feature to perform the same function. At a certain point, the amount of surface area needed for such a feature becomes impossible for a mutant of a specific size (or larger) to provide.

However, as a concession, perhaps such a feature could aid in climbing (providing a small bonus or a base climbing ability). It isn't a perfect effect as the character's size and weight would be working against them (hence why it is merely a climbing aid rather than the Adhesion Power), but it is an option. Give the size of many mutants (roughly within the human range), climbing inverted surfaces without the Adhesion power is likely impossible, but a climbing aid (similar in effect to climbing claws) should be possible.

[SittingBull]

I just figured they would at least be able to purchase adhesion with bio points.

[Razorwing]

There are already rules for doing so... though I can't remember off hand how many bio-e points a minor power like that would cost.

[SittingBull]

It isn't an option under mutant spiders though, so it would be a GMs call.