Storming Atlantis.
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- say652
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Top tier minions have around 1000mdc supernatural strength 50+ magic abilities and psionics.
The most I have seen in a borg is a little over 1000mdc.
It can be done.
The most I have seen in a borg is a little over 1000mdc.
It can be done.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
The 'borg would be staggering under a weight of armor and arms so heavy as to be encumbered and could be easily danced around, unless said 'borg is built directly into the equivalent of CCW Ram 'Bot, a starship or Naruni Doomsday Machine.
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"
--------Rudyard Kipling
------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"
--------Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
A ram has around 2500mdc, with the high population of adult dragons 3000mdc average and the Metzla this is looking bleaker and bleaker....
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
say652 wrote:A ram has around 2500mdc, with the high population of adult dragons 3000mdc average and the Metzla this is looking bleaker and bleaker....
An all out what seems illadvised, though a surgical strike team could have an advantage. But this is your circus, and your monkeys.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Light borgs in Power Armor.
Max mdc and missile payloads.
Max mdc and missile payloads.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Just send an army of Mulka's and be done with it already. 
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
You stand a better chance of storming Chi Town unarmed than picking an Army to invade Atlantis.
Even my munchkin powered brain is like, IT CAN'T BE DONE.
Even my munchkin powered brain is like, IT CAN'T BE DONE.
Re: Storming Atlantis.
It's an interesting thought exercise. Here's my approach. I'll use:
1. A huge population of psi-stalkers and psi-nullifiers armed with some specialized equipment from England.
2. A large cabal of high-level Nazca Line Masters from South America.
3. A bunch of Palladium Fantasy summoners who are very familiar with key places in Atlantis.
4. The massed combat power of the Coalition Army or an equivalent alliance of others.
The Plan:
In Rifts: England, there's a staff or wand in the herbology section that can cast Anti-Magic Cloud several times per day. I'll put a lot of those in the hands of huge packs of psi-stalkers and psi-nullifiers to reduce, but not eliminate, many of the magical threats the Splugorth bring.
Nazca Line Masters can alter Ley Lines. I don't have South America 2 handy, but if they can cut off a pyramid from its intersecting Ley Lines, that could potentially eliminate the Splugorth's primary mechanism for bringing in reinforcements. This isn't a trivial undertaking. It would require a lot of high level line masters, but it theoretically might be possible. The Splugorth have other means of bringing in troops from other dimensions, but those would be slower and more costly.
Let's assume that you bring in about 1/4 of North America's psi-stalker population, equip them with those wands, and have them work closely with a large conventional Army. You launch this invasion simultaneously with a massive coordinated strike that eliminates the Splugorth's pyramids and chops up their ley lines. This throws the Splugorth forces into disarray and negates most of their supernatural advantages. If you mass a great deal of conventional, tech-based combat power and strike quickly, capitalizing on the advantage of surprise and confusion, you could certainly take a beach and probably gain some significant ground inland.
Eventually, though, even if you keep their magical forces from contributing to the fight, the Splugorth will fall back on the technological might of the Kittani and the numerical might of their overlords and other minions. The full weight of the C.S. Army could give them some trouble and win in the field for a while, but I doubt that all those dead boys could win. Even if the NGR sent its giant submarine strike base to help, and the Ticonderoga/New Navy gave it all they've got, they'd be up against millions of enemies, most of whom are naturally MDC creatures. You'll need some way of counter-balancing that numerical threat and softening them up.
Enter the Xiticix. You draw a massive, miles-wide circle of teleportation around hives or swarms (can be drawn in any substance), and then you teleport them en masse into Splynn and the Kittani cities. Now you have millions of the bugs in the Atlantis capital and its major technology centers, overwhelming their numbers and drawing Atlantis forces into a massive slugfest. Ordinarily, this would be a bad day for the Splugorth, but they'd be able to squelch it. With their pyramids and ley lines out of commission, however, they've got a real fight on their hands. Your invasion force is an afterthought as they fight for their lives against the swarm. By the time a winner of that slug-fest emerges, they'll be degraded enough that your own invasion force might actually stand a chance of winning.
It's not plausible, but it's not impossible.
1. A huge population of psi-stalkers and psi-nullifiers armed with some specialized equipment from England.
2. A large cabal of high-level Nazca Line Masters from South America.
3. A bunch of Palladium Fantasy summoners who are very familiar with key places in Atlantis.
4. The massed combat power of the Coalition Army or an equivalent alliance of others.
The Plan:
In Rifts: England, there's a staff or wand in the herbology section that can cast Anti-Magic Cloud several times per day. I'll put a lot of those in the hands of huge packs of psi-stalkers and psi-nullifiers to reduce, but not eliminate, many of the magical threats the Splugorth bring.
Nazca Line Masters can alter Ley Lines. I don't have South America 2 handy, but if they can cut off a pyramid from its intersecting Ley Lines, that could potentially eliminate the Splugorth's primary mechanism for bringing in reinforcements. This isn't a trivial undertaking. It would require a lot of high level line masters, but it theoretically might be possible. The Splugorth have other means of bringing in troops from other dimensions, but those would be slower and more costly.
Let's assume that you bring in about 1/4 of North America's psi-stalker population, equip them with those wands, and have them work closely with a large conventional Army. You launch this invasion simultaneously with a massive coordinated strike that eliminates the Splugorth's pyramids and chops up their ley lines. This throws the Splugorth forces into disarray and negates most of their supernatural advantages. If you mass a great deal of conventional, tech-based combat power and strike quickly, capitalizing on the advantage of surprise and confusion, you could certainly take a beach and probably gain some significant ground inland.
Eventually, though, even if you keep their magical forces from contributing to the fight, the Splugorth will fall back on the technological might of the Kittani and the numerical might of their overlords and other minions. The full weight of the C.S. Army could give them some trouble and win in the field for a while, but I doubt that all those dead boys could win. Even if the NGR sent its giant submarine strike base to help, and the Ticonderoga/New Navy gave it all they've got, they'd be up against millions of enemies, most of whom are naturally MDC creatures. You'll need some way of counter-balancing that numerical threat and softening them up.
Enter the Xiticix. You draw a massive, miles-wide circle of teleportation around hives or swarms (can be drawn in any substance), and then you teleport them en masse into Splynn and the Kittani cities. Now you have millions of the bugs in the Atlantis capital and its major technology centers, overwhelming their numbers and drawing Atlantis forces into a massive slugfest. Ordinarily, this would be a bad day for the Splugorth, but they'd be able to squelch it. With their pyramids and ley lines out of commission, however, they've got a real fight on their hands. Your invasion force is an afterthought as they fight for their lives against the swarm. By the time a winner of that slug-fest emerges, they'll be degraded enough that your own invasion force might actually stand a chance of winning.
It's not plausible, but it's not impossible.
Hotrod
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
say652 wrote:You stand a better chance of storming Chi Town unarmed than picking an Army to invade Atlantis.
Even my munchkin powered brain is like, IT CAN'T BE DONE.
Adapt super Sayans to palladium systems, had a friend who did tree that once and assaulted Chi-town successfully. But um sticking by the rules, yet burnt.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
If I were splynncryth, I would shove my entire domain under dimensional travel block out, leaving the pyramids as the only magical entry and egress.
Eliminating teleportation as form of attack would crush just about everyone's dreams of successfully attacking Atlantis.
Eliminating teleportation as form of attack would crush just about everyone's dreams of successfully attacking Atlantis.
Mark Hall wrote:Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Alrik Vas wrote:If I were splynncryth, I would shove my entire domain under dimensional travel block out, leaving the pyramids as the only magical entry and egress.
Eliminating teleportation as form of attack would crush just about everyone's dreams of successfully attacking Atlantis.
A lot of his tourists are dimensional travellers. If he prevented them from using DT while visiting, they'd stop visiting because that would make them vulnerable.
I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.
If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Yeah, and they can dimensional travel right through the bloody pyramid like everyone else. If the land is open to teleportation, there's no way to secure it, which makes it more dangerous for his guests even if they can come and go as they please.
Mark Hall wrote:Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.
Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20
Re: Storming Atlantis.
Alrik Vas wrote:Yeah, and they can dimensional travel right through the bloody pyramid like everyone else. If the land is open to teleportation, there's no way to secure it, which makes it more dangerous for his guests even if they can come and go as they please.
Is there really a way he can do that though?
The Clones are coming you shall all be replaced, but who is to say you have not been replaced already.
Master of Type-O and the obvios.
Soon my army oc clones and winged-monkies will rule the world but first, must .......
I may debate canon and RAW, but the games I run are highly house ruled. So I am not debating for how I play but about how the system works as written.
Master of Type-O and the obvios.
Soon my army oc clones and winged-monkies will rule the world but first, must .......
I may debate canon and RAW, but the games I run are highly house ruled. So I am not debating for how I play but about how the system works as written.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
The only winning move is not to play.
The Nuclear Chaos
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And if the abnormal ones come,then death may cease to be
That thing is not dead which has the capacity to continue to exist eternally,
And if the abnormal ones come,then death may cease to be
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
AzathothXy wrote:The only winning move is not to play.
Agreed.
The Atlantis empire is just too strong. Average mdc 1000 or so and just about everything has supernatural strength and magic abilities or weapons.
The only way is just have slavers encounter players, maybe a sunaj or ten.
And becoming a known enemy of the empire is suicide.
Re: Storming Atlantis.
Splynncryth can secure his pyramids, not by preventing travel (as far as I know) but by having powerful minions at the exits on standby, with many more ready to pop in on a moment's notice. That's why, in order to make an invasion possible, the pyramids would have to be neutralized. Nazca Line Masters might be able to do it by destroying ley lines, but you'd need a lot of high-level masters. Massively destructive bombs could maybe blow up a pyramid, though they'd also take out a good part of the cities they're in.
An Alternate Approach:
In Palladium Fantasy's Tombs of Gersidi, there's a legendary magical item known as the Cauldron of Obedience. Its magic is pretty dark and disgusting. Just to use it at all, you have to sacrifice a victim, mix their blood with that of a greater demon inside the cauldron, and drink it. Its most potent power is the creation of a potion of obedience. It's so potent that a gallon dumped in a river upstream from a city will enslave 80% of that city. No saving throw is mentioned.
Holy crap.
A single batch of this potion requires the beating heart of a titan and a unicorn horn and yields five gallons. That will enslave 80% of the population of five cities for you. Four batches of this potion could win you 80% of all people in the 20 cities in The Valley without firing a shot. With a simple command, you cue a major civil war among Splynncryth's minions. It'd be like that scene in Divergent, or the bit in Game of Thrones where the Unsullied turn on the masters under their fake-blonde-plot-armored-queen's orders. The soldiers suddenly turn on their leaders and everyone else hanging out in Atlantis. That's a bad, bad day for everyone's favorite sploogie.
An Alternate Approach:
In Palladium Fantasy's Tombs of Gersidi, there's a legendary magical item known as the Cauldron of Obedience. Its magic is pretty dark and disgusting. Just to use it at all, you have to sacrifice a victim, mix their blood with that of a greater demon inside the cauldron, and drink it. Its most potent power is the creation of a potion of obedience. It's so potent that a gallon dumped in a river upstream from a city will enslave 80% of that city. No saving throw is mentioned.
Holy crap.
A single batch of this potion requires the beating heart of a titan and a unicorn horn and yields five gallons. That will enslave 80% of the population of five cities for you. Four batches of this potion could win you 80% of all people in the 20 cities in The Valley without firing a shot. With a simple command, you cue a major civil war among Splynncryth's minions. It'd be like that scene in Divergent, or the bit in Game of Thrones where the Unsullied turn on the masters under their fake-blonde-plot-armored-queen's orders. The soldiers suddenly turn on their leaders and everyone else hanging out in Atlantis. That's a bad, bad day for everyone's favorite sploogie.
Last edited by Hotrod on Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hotrod
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
say652 wrote:AzathothXy wrote:The only winning move is not to play.
Agreed.
The Atlantis empire is just too strong. Average mdc 1000 or so and just about everything has supernatural strength and magic abilities or weapons.
The only way is just have slavers encounter players, maybe a sunaj or ten.
And becoming a known enemy of the empire is suicide.
Not always the case. My party ripped the sploogies off for millions, seems the GM realized after the fact that we didn't have the gold for all the slaves we bought.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Air drop zavors onto the island maybe.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
SittingBull wrote:Air drop zavors onto the island maybe.
And I thought the Cauldron of Obedience was evil...
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
SittingBull wrote:Air drop zavors onto the island maybe.
I see Atlantis selling Zavors by the bushel. And possibly Zavor stew and fried zavor legs.
If any place on Earth knew what to do with zavor and how to handle them, Atlantis would be it.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Thanks for the food and slaves.
Even if I designed a million munchkin army, Atlantis would not fall.
Even if I designed a million munchkin army, Atlantis would not fall.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
say652 wrote:Thanks for the food and slaves.
Even if I designed a million munchkin army, Atlantis would not fall.
If nothing else, Hades or Dyval could keep Atlantis tied up in a war attrition for quite a while.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
AzathothXy wrote:SittingBull wrote:Air drop zavors onto the island maybe.
I see Atlantis selling Zavors by the bushel. And possibly Zavor stew and fried zavor legs.
If any place on Earth knew what to do with zavor and how to handle them, Atlantis would be it.
Zavor are why you should not enquire to closely of the ingredients in the stadium hot dogs at the Arena in Splynn. (And you wondered why they were so cheap.....)
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
eliakon wrote:AzathothXy wrote:SittingBull wrote:Air drop zavors onto the island maybe.
I see Atlantis selling Zavors by the bushel. And possibly Zavor stew and fried zavor legs.
If any place on Earth knew what to do with zavor and how to handle them, Atlantis would be it.
Zavor are why you should not enquire to closely of the ingredients in the stadium hot dogs at the Arena in Splynn. (And you wondered why they were so cheap.....)
Pretty ingenious. Hot dogs that create duplicates of themselves when exposed to magic.
The Nuclear Chaos
That thing is not dead which has the capacity to continue to exist eternally,
And if the abnormal ones come,then death may cease to be
That thing is not dead which has the capacity to continue to exist eternally,
And if the abnormal ones come,then death may cease to be
Re: Storming Atlantis.
Well, if you can't beat Atlantis, is there some way to turn a profit off of attacking Atlantis?
I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.
If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Flatline, there is always, always profit to be had.
Always.
Splugorth major rival and competition are interdimensional arms dealers, after all.
Always.
Splugorth major rival and competition are interdimensional arms dealers, after all.
Mark Hall wrote:Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Splugorth are sick and evil, the hired a team to float around Atlantis killing random monsters to create a serial killer menace....
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
It could be done but it would be very very difficult. Almost impossible imo. It's not simply numbers of the minions.. It's also a army that combines technology, magic and psionics as well as bio-technology into a whole. Not many armies on Rifts earth do that imo. Either or but not all three. So if one can duplicate or find another army that can do that as well as a equal or larger number it;s doomed to fail. Not to mention Splynncryth is not dumb imo. He maybe presented as a businessman. A smart one. He has all avenues protected and guarded imo. air, ground, sea, underground the possible exception space. Even a waiting game is futile imo. It's all nice to say in the future the various factions on earth might be powerful enough to stop him with time. Sure if Splynncryth did not do the same. You think he got where he has without thinking ahead. Atlantis is one of the Deus ex machina of Rifts Earth. 99.9% of the time you ain't going to defeat them. let alone stop them.
Well when their main alignment is evil one can't exactly expect them to act like person of the year. So nothing is beyond a splugorth imo.
say652 wrote:Splugorth are sick and evil, the hired a team to float around Atlantis killing random monsters to create a serial killer menace....
Well when their main alignment is evil one can't exactly expect them to act like person of the year. So nothing is beyond a splugorth imo.
If it's stupid and it works. It's not stupid
Palladium can't be given a free pass for criticism because people have a lot of emotion invested in it.
Pathfinder is good. It is not the second coming of D&D.
Surshot is absolutely right. (Kevin Seimbeda)
Enlightened Grognard
When I step out of line the mods do their jobs. I don't benefit from some sort of special protection.
Palladium can't be given a free pass for criticism because people have a lot of emotion invested in it.
Pathfinder is good. It is not the second coming of D&D.
Surshot is absolutely right. (Kevin Seimbeda)
Enlightened Grognard
When I step out of line the mods do their jobs. I don't benefit from some sort of special protection.
Re: Storming Atlantis.
Alrik Vas wrote:Ok, ok. 250k cosmo knights. That'd be tough for anyone, even splynn (not to say they couldn't repell them still, or that there are even that many CK in the megaverse).
That many could certainly win, no question really, but also certainly have better things to do.
Hotrod wrote:Enter the Xiticix. You draw a massive, miles-wide circle of teleportation around hives or swarms (can be drawn in any substance), and then you teleport them en masse into Splynn and the Kittani cities. Now you have millions of the bugs in the Atlantis capital and its major technology centers, overwhelming their numbers and drawing Atlantis forces into a massive slugfest. Ordinarily, this would be a bad day for the Splugorth, but they'd be able to squelch it. With their pyramids and ley lines out of commission, however, they've got a real fight on their hands. Your invasion force is an afterthought as they fight for their lives against the swarm. By the time a winner of that slug-fest emerges, they'll be degraded enough that your own invasion force might actually stand a chance of winning.
It's not plausible, but it's not impossible.
Cut off the pyramids and drop in the Xiticix for starters? I like!
Another suggestion- if there's any Horsemen of the Apocalypse walking around, drop them on Atlantis. They're a big enough threat that Splynncryth will *have* to focus on them first, slowing down response to other things. And if you can fake things up so it looks like the Phoenix Empire sent the Horsemen, even better, because that'll divert some of his forces to crushing them.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
say652 wrote:Splugorth are sick and evil, the hired a team to float around Atlantis killing random monsters to create a serial killer menace....
Technically, Splynncyrth isn't evil, his alignment is anarchist. while he turns a blind eye to the atrocities in Atlantis, and occasionally props up wars on earth for amusement, he dosn't directly condone senseless slaughter. Only if that slaughter turns him a profit.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Nekira Sudacne wrote:say652 wrote:Splugorth are sick and evil, the hired a team to float around Atlantis killing random monsters to create a serial killer menace....
Technically, Splynncyrth isn't evil, his alignment is anarchist. while he turns a blind eye to the atrocities in Atlantis, and occasionally props up wars on earth for amusement, he dosn't directly condone senseless slaughter. Only if that slaughter turns him a profit.
He's basically the CEO from hell; it's just more profitable to not give a damn about all the 'little people' who get ground underfoot/tentacle to keep his corporate machine going, than to engage in charity.
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"
--------Rudyard Kipling
------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"
--------Rudyard Kipling
------------
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Q99 wrote:Tor wrote:we don't know how many trillions they were, or how many died during their expansion
one can't just calculate on birthrate, considering even with expansion, resources and space limits them, plus they're used as cannon fodder in wars across the megaverse.
I know, that's why I figured we should only estimate it the next level higher instead of more.
say652 wrote:A ram has around 2500mdc, with the high population of adult dragons 3000mdc average and the Metzla this is looking bleaker and bleaker....
Fun times: actually trying to find a rule for the speed at which the Ram Bot's force field regenerates, if at all, since DB3 only gave the 5%MDC/melee rule for VARIABLE force fields. I just go with the 1MDC/melee that Naruni's use, but GMs can opt to make them more fail like 1 MDC/min.
Hotrod wrote:Nazca Line Masters might be able to do it by destroying ley lines
There are secret rituals to extend or even create ley lines but I don't see one for destroying them. House rule?
Hotrod wrote:a gallon dumped in a river upstream from a city will enslave 80% of that city. No saving throw is mentioned.
Implying the Splugorth would trust something as insecure as a river to supply water to their minions. Are they unable to get ahold of Scathach cauldrons or water elementals?
SittingBull wrote:Air drop zavors onto the island maybe.
who are quickly beaten to death by Kydians wielding wooden clubs, already on-hand for anti-vampire use
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Tor wrote:[
who are quickly beaten to death by Kydians wielding wooden clubs, already on-hand for anti-vampire use
And tent stall poles...Not everybody goes metal or plastic for holding up their awnings and market shelters.
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"
--------Rudyard Kipling
------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"
--------Rudyard Kipling
------------
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Just a note on the cauldron....
It is magic mind control. Unless there is an explicit statement that you do NOT get a save, you would get your normal Save vs. Magic (with any bonus for Save vs. Mind Control)
It is magic mind control. Unless there is an explicit statement that you do NOT get a save, you would get your normal Save vs. Magic (with any bonus for Save vs. Mind Control)
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Re: Storming Atlantis.
I stand corrected; thanks for pointing that out. Checking South America 2, Nazca can create and extend ley lines, but they cannot destroy them.
Ok then, Plan B! Either teleport all of Atlantis' pyramids away (probably not possible, though I know of no rule that says you can't) or destroy them. Impossible, you might say? Not at all! Here's just one method I could plausibly use:
Build a very large C-12 rifle rack that stacks and orients 10,000 of these rifles in the same direction, put them inside a big cargo truck, and rig up a system to pull all their triggers simultaneously, pull up next to a pyramid, and start yanking the twine (note: I've done the math; Assuming you need 20 square inches per rifle, you could do this inside a trailer 80 feet long by 20 feet tall)! The biggest pyramids have a maximum of 800,000 MDC, and we're doing an average of 140,000 MDC per twine pull. The pyramid is destroyed in 6 attacks, or 1 melee round; you could also rig up a simple robot with a program to fire as rapidly as possible.
Actually, that would be more plausible than bringing in big cabals of line magic masters. All you'll need is about 200 million credits (20k per rifle times 10k rifles) to buy the rifles and a little more for the truck, rack, and firing system. That's for the biggest types of pyramids. Smaller ones wouldn't require nearly so much firepower.
The Splugorth will still have nexuses, but no magic pyramids for insta-reinforcements. Inducing ley line storms could also add to the party as you teleport in the bug swarms.
Ok then, Plan B! Either teleport all of Atlantis' pyramids away (probably not possible, though I know of no rule that says you can't) or destroy them. Impossible, you might say? Not at all! Here's just one method I could plausibly use:
Build a very large C-12 rifle rack that stacks and orients 10,000 of these rifles in the same direction, put them inside a big cargo truck, and rig up a system to pull all their triggers simultaneously, pull up next to a pyramid, and start yanking the twine (note: I've done the math; Assuming you need 20 square inches per rifle, you could do this inside a trailer 80 feet long by 20 feet tall)! The biggest pyramids have a maximum of 800,000 MDC, and we're doing an average of 140,000 MDC per twine pull. The pyramid is destroyed in 6 attacks, or 1 melee round; you could also rig up a simple robot with a program to fire as rapidly as possible.
Actually, that would be more plausible than bringing in big cabals of line magic masters. All you'll need is about 200 million credits (20k per rifle times 10k rifles) to buy the rifles and a little more for the truck, rack, and firing system. That's for the biggest types of pyramids. Smaller ones wouldn't require nearly so much firepower.
The Splugorth will still have nexuses, but no magic pyramids for insta-reinforcements. Inducing ley line storms could also add to the party as you teleport in the bug swarms.
Hotrod
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Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
Like what you see? There's more on my Patreon Page.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Hmm...this is why I don't like linear damage systems.
I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.
If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
Re: Storming Atlantis.
People keep saying he can rift in billions of troops. How long would that take? Once you have them there you will have supply problems from hell. So in theory he could get reinforcements, but I want to see the rules on how long it would take to gather them. Are they already involved in other things? Do you just happen to have billions of troops waiting around?????
There are many threats Atlantis would fall to, including megaverse in flames. The only thing to ask is the GM going to fiat Atlantis wins. That is all.
There are many threats Atlantis would fall to, including megaverse in flames. The only thing to ask is the GM going to fiat Atlantis wins. That is all.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Hotrod wrote:Ok then, Plan B! Either teleport all of Atlantis' pyramids away (probably not possible, though I know of no rule that says you can't) or destroy them. Impossible, you might say? Not at all! Here's just one method I could plausibly use:
Build a very large C-12 rifle rack that stacks and orients 10,000 of these rifles in the same direction, put them inside a big cargo truck, and rig up a system to pull all their triggers simultaneously, pull up next to a pyramid, and start yanking the twine (note: I've done the math; Assuming you need 20 square inches per rifle, you could do this inside a trailer 80 feet long by 20 feet tall)! The biggest pyramids have a maximum of 800,000 MDC, and we're doing an average of 140,000 MDC per twine pull. The pyramid is destroyed in 6 attacks, or 1 melee round; you could also rig up a simple robot with a program to fire as rapidly as possible.
Actually, that would be more plausible than bringing in big cabals of line magic masters. All you'll need is about 200 million credits (20k per rifle times 10k rifles) to buy the rifles and a little more for the truck, rack, and firing system. That's for the biggest types of pyramids. Smaller ones wouldn't require nearly so much firepower.
The Splugorth will still have nexuses, but no magic pyramids for insta-reinforcements. Inducing ley line storms could also add to the party as you teleport in the bug swarms.
And all the splugorth need is 1 or 2 fragmentation mini missiles to blow it up...?
Mark Hall wrote:Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.
Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20
Re: Storming Atlantis.
boxee wrote:People keep saying he can rift in billions of troops. How long would that take? Once you have them there you will have supply problems from hell. So in theory he could get reinforcements, but I want to see the rules on how long it would take to gather them. Are they already involved in other things? Do you just happen to have billions of troops waiting around?????
There are many threats Atlantis would fall to, including megaverse in flames. The only thing to ask is the GM going to fiat Atlantis wins. That is all.
Very complex questions which there aren't clear published answers for. To answer them, we'd need to know how many pyramids are on Atlantis, how many of those pyramids are situated at nexuses, and whether or not rifts created at the pyramids by alien stone masters adhere to the standard limits on size for artificial rifts (12ft x 24ft). We also have no means of knowing whether Splynncryth has his forces committed elsewhere. It is indeed a case of GM fiat, as so much of Rifts is.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Most military organizations have QRF, the CS even has their RDF. For a force like the Kittani for instance, to not have several hundreds of thousands of units ready to deploy anywhere Splynncryth wants to touch in the no-no spot at any time I think is a poor assumption.
If we were talking about a technological force only, one that hadn't mastered dimensional travel like NE, then I'm totally in agreement. Their deployment of force would be waaaay too unbalanced because of physical limitations to gather and deploy to the boss' house at a moment's notice. Absolutely right. Yet because they have such capabilities, I don't see why they wouldn't hold a million or so reservists on rotation to a garrison that trains and waits to be called anywhere Splynn and his underlings can instantly send them.
You hold the station for about two years then rotate back into normal duty. seems legit to me.
If we were talking about a technological force only, one that hadn't mastered dimensional travel like NE, then I'm totally in agreement. Their deployment of force would be waaaay too unbalanced because of physical limitations to gather and deploy to the boss' house at a moment's notice. Absolutely right. Yet because they have such capabilities, I don't see why they wouldn't hold a million or so reservists on rotation to a garrison that trains and waits to be called anywhere Splynn and his underlings can instantly send them.
You hold the station for about two years then rotate back into normal duty. seems legit to me.
Mark Hall wrote:Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.
Talk from the Edge: Operation Dead Lift, Operation Reload, Operation Human Devil, Operation Handshake, Operation Windfall 1, Operation Windfall 2, Operation Sniper Wolf, Operation Natural 20
Re: Storming Atlantis.
Alrik Vas wrote:Most military organizations have QRF, the CS even has their RDF. For a force like the Kittani for instance, to not have several hundreds of thousands of units ready to deploy anywhere Splynncryth wants to touch in the no-no spot at any time I think is a poor assumption.
If we were talking about a technological force only, one that hadn't mastered dimensional travel like NE, then I'm totally in agreement. Their deployment of force would be waaaay too unbalanced because of physical limitations to gather and deploy to the boss' house at a moment's notice. Absolutely right. Yet because they have such capabilities, I don't see why they wouldn't hold a million or so reservists on rotation to a garrison that trains and waits to be called anywhere Splynn and his underlings can instantly send them.
You hold the station for about two years then rotate back into normal duty. seems legit to me.
Well that is better odds then billions upon billions. I can see a million in reserve, but it would take time to get them all there, maybe hours, maybe days? Much more reasonable odd though.
Re: Storming Atlantis.
Bill wrote:boxee wrote:People keep saying he can rift in billions of troops. How long would that take? Once you have them there you will have supply problems from hell. So in theory he could get reinforcements, but I want to see the rules on how long it would take to gather them. Are they already involved in other things? Do you just happen to have billions of troops waiting around?????
There are many threats Atlantis would fall to, including megaverse in flames. The only thing to ask is the GM going to fiat Atlantis wins. That is all.
Very complex questions which there aren't clear published answers for. To answer them, we'd need to know how many pyramids are on Atlantis, how many of those pyramids are situated at nexuses, and whether or not rifts created at the pyramids by alien stone masters adhere to the standard limits on size for artificial rifts (12ft x 24ft). We also have no means of knowing whether Splynncryth has his forces committed elsewhere. It is indeed a case of GM fiat, as so much of Rifts is.
True, meaning the GM can have an epic battle and if the players win so be it, since so many variables are in play it could be possible if there was an all out assault. If a small group tried it then yes fail, but nations may fair better.
Re: Storming Atlantis.
Full on wars aren't supported by the rules. They're fiat as well.
Re: Storming Atlantis.
Goofy Suggestion: Space/Time RIFT the SDF-1, SDF-2, & SDF-3, & some MACROSS Ships into orbit. Have them sychronyize the Main Cannons, & fire in volleys at Atlantis. Absolutely destroys everything, no need to worry about reinforcements.
True Suggestion: Don't have one. As previously stated, in the WB2, & WB21, the Splugorth forces are too tremendous to even try a full on assault. Would have to have, a small raiding party infiltrate, & take out the big guys. Would need the Karma power of Longshot to even attempt.
True Suggestion: Don't have one. As previously stated, in the WB2, & WB21, the Splugorth forces are too tremendous to even try a full on assault. Would have to have, a small raiding party infiltrate, & take out the big guys. Would need the Karma power of Longshot to even attempt.
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Brayon wrote:Goofy Suggestion: Space/Time RIFT the SDF-1, SDF-2, & SDF-3, & some MACROSS Ships into orbit. Have them sychronyize the Main Cannons, & fire in volleys at Atlantis. Absolutely destroys everything, no need to worry about reinforcements.
True Suggestion: Don't have one. As previously stated, in the WB2, & WB21, the Splugorth forces are too tremendous to even try a full on assault. Would have to have, a small raiding party infiltrate, & take out the big guys. Would need the Karma power of Longshot to even attempt.
The SDF 3 is already in Atlantis, didn't you see it in the picture?
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Nekira Sudacne wrote:Brayon wrote:Goofy Suggestion: Space/Time RIFT the SDF-1, SDF-2, & SDF-3, & some MACROSS Ships into orbit. Have them sychronyize the Main Cannons, & fire in volleys at Atlantis. Absolutely destroys everything, no need to worry about reinforcements.
True Suggestion: Don't have one. As previously stated, in the WB2, & WB21, the Splugorth forces are too tremendous to even try a full on assault. Would have to have, a small raiding party infiltrate, & take out the big guys. Would need the Karma power of Longshot to even attempt.
The SDF 3 is already in Atlantis, didn't you see it in the picture?
It is? I must of missed that. LOL!!!
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
SDF-3? Is it that flying thing at the top of page 21? Which pic should I compare it to in Robotech materials?
Against what target number?
How are you going to get this truck within 2000 feet of the pyramid?
Even if Splynncryth and his High Lords aren't Diabolists, they get enough visitors that some are bound to come through splynn, meaning they could negotiate a permanence ward, so who's to say the pyramids aren't protected by direct attacks by a permanent impenetrable wall of force?
Would you even hit the pyramid? Seems like you would not only be firing without any bonuses whatsoever, but be firing wild, possibly even blind, so in spite of the size you might miss it.
I was about to ask about the cost of e-clips but I guess you could go purely based on the storage cell the C-12s come with to skip that.
Wouldn't someone inevitably use Clairvoyance to see this coming and have proper security to block it?
Couldn't a single Kittani robot TW-enchanted with Impervious to Energy jumping in front of your truck opening block this easily?
Unless the GM is a super good coder
eliakon wrote:Just a note on the cauldron....
It is magic mind control. Unless there is an explicit statement that you do NOT get a save, you would get your normal Save vs. Magic (with any bonus for Save vs. Mind Control)
Against what target number?
Hotrod wrote:Build a very large C-12 rifle rack that stacks and orients 10,000 of these rifles in the same direction, put them inside a big cargo truck, and rig up a system to pull all their triggers simultaneously, pull up next to a pyramid, and start yanking the twine
How are you going to get this truck within 2000 feet of the pyramid?
Even if Splynncryth and his High Lords aren't Diabolists, they get enough visitors that some are bound to come through splynn, meaning they could negotiate a permanence ward, so who's to say the pyramids aren't protected by direct attacks by a permanent impenetrable wall of force?
Would you even hit the pyramid? Seems like you would not only be firing without any bonuses whatsoever, but be firing wild, possibly even blind, so in spite of the size you might miss it.
Hotrod wrote:Actually, that would be more plausible than bringing in big cabals of line magic masters. All you'll need is about 200 million credits (20k per rifle times 10k rifles) to buy the rifles and a little more for the truck, rack, and firing system.
I was about to ask about the cost of e-clips but I guess you could go purely based on the storage cell the C-12s come with to skip that.
Wouldn't someone inevitably use Clairvoyance to see this coming and have proper security to block it?
Couldn't a single Kittani robot TW-enchanted with Impervious to Energy jumping in front of your truck opening block this easily?
Bill wrote:Full on wars aren't supported by the rules. They're fiat as well.
Unless the GM is a super good coder
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Re: Storming Atlantis.
Tor wrote:eliakon wrote:Just a note on the cauldron....
It is magic mind control. Unless there is an explicit statement that you do NOT get a save, you would get your normal Save vs. Magic (with any bonus for Save vs. Mind Control)
Against what target number?
Unless there is a statement to the contrary, or a GM ruling saves vs. magic are 12+
Unless we decide that this counts as a ritual and then its a 16+ (as it is not a ward, a circle, or a faerie magic)
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Re: Storming Atlantis.
Alrik Vas wrote:Hotrod wrote:Ok then, Plan B! Either teleport all of Atlantis' pyramids away (probably not possible, though I know of no rule that says you can't) or destroy them. Impossible, you might say? Not at all! Here's just one method I could plausibly use:
Build a very large C-12 rifle rack that stacks and orients 10,000 of these rifles in the same direction, put them inside a big cargo truck, and rig up a system to pull all their triggers simultaneously, pull up next to a pyramid, and start yanking the twine (note: I've done the math; Assuming you need 20 square inches per rifle, you could do this inside a trailer 80 feet long by 20 feet tall)! The biggest pyramids have a maximum of 800,000 MDC, and we're doing an average of 140,000 MDC per twine pull. The pyramid is destroyed in 6 attacks, or 1 melee round; you could also rig up a simple robot with a program to fire as rapidly as possible.
Actually, that would be more plausible than bringing in big cabals of line magic masters. All you'll need is about 200 million credits (20k per rifle times 10k rifles) to buy the rifles and a little more for the truck, rack, and firing system. That's for the biggest types of pyramids. Smaller ones wouldn't require nearly so much firepower.
The Splugorth will still have nexuses, but no magic pyramids for insta-reinforcements. Inducing ley line storms could also add to the party as you teleport in the bug swarms.
And all the splugorth need is 1 or 2 fragmentation mini missiles to blow it up...?
It's all about surprise. You park this thing somewhere handy, concealing its cargo so they don't see it coming. By the time they react, it's too late. This is more of a surprise demolition system than a weapon.
Hotrod
Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
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Author, Rifter Contributor, and Map Artist
Duty's Edge, a Rifts novel. Available as an ebook, PDF,or printed book.
Check out my maps here!
Also, check out my Instant NPC Generators!
Like what you see? There's more on my Patreon Page.
