Firearms and ammo question.

[SittingBull]

What pistol and rifle (thinking semi-automatic due to large clip size) would be best for dependability, damage, and best chances to find ammo from salvage or barter?

[jedi078]

If we are talking about a game set in the United States:

For a pistol use a 9mm. The ammo is plentiful, and the recoil isn't that bad.

For rifle anything that fires 5.56mm. Again the ammo is plentiful, also it doesn't weigh much. Mind you a 30-06 round is probably more common (it is the preferred hunting round) most of the hunting rifles do not have large magazine capacities.

[SittingBull]

What kind of weapons though that use those calibers?

[jedi078]

What kind of weapons though that use those calibers?

Here's a list of assault rifles along with what caliber bullet they are cambered for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assault_rifles

I'm sure wikipedia has a similar list of pistols.

[SittingBull]

I'm sure it does but with how slow my connection is I can't go searching on my own.

Thank you.

[say652]

12 gauge shotgun.
9mm.
45 acp.
7.62x 39(ak 47)
223(m 16)
357/38 common home defense calibers.

Sold guns legally for a long time. These calibers were my top sellers.

[filo_clarke]

For Pistols, the Cadco Medusa would be ideal. Unfortunately it is not a durable as some firearms, but its advantage is that is chambers almost anything in the 9mm caliber. This means that a single firearm, without modification, can fire:
Short 9 x 17
.380 Revolver
Ultra 9 x 18
Makarov 9 x 18
9 mm Browning Patronen (long)
9 mm Glisenti
9 mm Largo
9 mm IMI
9 mm Mauser
Parabellum 9 x 19
9 mm Rimmed
9 x 23 Steyr
9 mm Win Mag
9 mm Police
9 x 23 Winchester
9 mm Federal
R Japanese 9 x 22
.38 ACP
Super 38
.38 Long Colt
38 Short Colt
.38 S & W
.38 Special
TS & W .356
.357 Magnum

[filo_clarke]

As for long guns, a break-open 12-ga shotgun equipped with an X-Caliber Barrel Insert System might do the trick. The X-Caliber inserts are stainless steel sleeves that fit down the barrel, and allow a shotgun to chamber a variety of different calibers, without any tools or modifications needed to the shotgun. These are the available calibers:
.22 long rifle
.38 special
.357
9mm
.45 ACP
.45 long colt
.410 shotgun
.223 / 5.56mm
7.62×39mm
.308 / 7.62mm

[say652]

As for long guns, a break-open 12-ga shotgun equipped with an X-Caliber Barrel Insert System might do the trick. The X-Caliber inserts are stainless steel sleeves that fit down the barrel, and allow a shotgun to chamber a variety of different calibers, without any tools or modifications needed to the shotgun. These are the available calibers:
.22 long rifle
.38 special
.357
9mm
.45 ACP
.45 long colt
.410 shotgun
.223 / 5.56mm
7.62×39mm
.308 / 7.62mm

I like the cut of your jib.

[Mechghost]

Or you could get a pistol and carbine with the same caliber so you only have one ammo type to carry. I have a DR character with a Colt 44.40 revolver and a 44.40 Winchester lever. Decent damage and the Winchester really isn't very loud, a bonus. If you're getting into situations where you need 15 rounds in the pistol and 30 round mags for the rifle, you're boned already.

[say652]

My irl choice is 45 long revolver and marlin 1914 saddle gun.
Lever action rifle was great, the pistols, at the time I could only use one, kicked like a mule and was heavy and hard to aim.
Ahhh to be 12. Lol.

I would take a Saiga 12 and saw down an over/under goose rifle 3 1/2" mag. To pistols now.
"Aint got time to Aim".

[Fell]

In North America if your characters "raid" National guard armory's and police stations you'll find .40 mm, 9 mm and 5.56 rounds and weapons mostly. So 9 mm and 40 mm pistols. Rifles will be AR-15, M16 or M400 mostly. IMO.

[Trent]

In North America if your characters "raid" National guard armory's and police stations you'll find .40 mm, 9 mm and 5.56 rounds and weapons mostly. So 9 mm and 40 mm pistols. Rifles will be AR-15, M16 or M400 mostly. IMO.

And be dead before you got to use them as they will be over run with the dead .

[Fell]

In North America if your characters "raid" National guard armory's and police stations you'll find .40 mm, 9 mm and 5.56 rounds and weapons mostly. So 9 mm and 40 mm pistols. Rifles will be AR-15, M16 or M400 mostly. IMO.

And be dead before you got to use them as they will be over run with the dead .

I assume you mean the armories will be over run with the dead inside them?
Whats that matter?

So, make that part of the game! Part of the fun!

GM: You know that the armory is loaded with weapons, but the station is also crawling with zombies, what are you doing?
Players: We are going to devise a way in. Maybe from the roof. Or make a distraction to get zombies to leave.

Same with Police Cars, they have weapons in them, they are designed to be locked into the police car, but if players can devise a way to "cut" the locks...

[SittingBull]

In North America if your characters "raid" National guard armory's and police stations you'll find .40 mm, 9 mm and 5.56 rounds and weapons mostly. So 9 mm and 40 mm pistols. Rifles will be AR-15, M16 or M400 mostly. IMO.

And be dead before you got to use them as they will be over run with the dead .

I assume you mean the armories will be over run with the dead inside them?
Whats that matter?

So, make that part of the game! Part of the fun!

GM: You know that the armory is loaded with weapons, but the station is also crawling with zombies, what are you doing?
Players: We are going to devise a way in. Maybe from the roof. Or make a distraction to get zombies to leave.

Same with Police Cars, they have weapons in them, they are designed to be locked into the police car, but if players can devise a way to "cut" the locks...

The problem is the armory might not be by itself. It might be in an urban area which immensely compounds the problem.

[flatline]

In North America if your characters "raid" National guard armory's and police stations you'll find .40 mm, 9 mm and 5.56 rounds and weapons mostly. So 9 mm and 40 mm pistols. Rifles will be AR-15, M16 or M400 mostly. IMO.

And be dead before you got to use them as they will be over run with the dead .

I assume you mean the armories will be over run with the dead inside them?
Whats that matter?

So, make that part of the game! Part of the fun!

GM: You know that the armory is loaded with weapons, but the station is also crawling with zombies, what are you doing?
Players: We are going to devise a way in. Maybe from the roof. Or make a distraction to get zombies to leave.

Same with Police Cars, they have weapons in them, they are designed to be locked into the police car, but if players can devise a way to "cut" the locks...

Totally this!

To resourceful players, a police car is a treasure. Radio (with reduced range since the repeater network probably won't be working). Weapons. Ammo. First aid kit. Tools. Cuffs. Pepper Spray. Flashlight. Fire extinguisher.

All sorts of good stuff.

And you can find them anywhere!

[Fell]

And you can find them anywhere!

Yup! Usually when you're speeding and don't want to find one!


Dead Reign and Chaos Earth are games of survival, it'll take some ingenuity on the parts of the Player Characters but finding a Police car or breaking into an infested armory can be part of the fun of the game.

[SittingBull]

Chaos Earth a little less survival as its not quite so easy to scrounge up MD weapons and armor.

[Fell]

Ok.

I always viewed Dead Reign as Survival from Zombies. Chaos Earth as Survival from Demons and all that comes with an Apocalypse. Rifts as Survival from every darn thing under the sun and Post Apocalypse.

I'm off topic I suppose.

I'm just thinking that if you are looking for Firearms and ammo for said guns, as a Player Character, you would want to carefully hit/rob/steal/raid Gun Stores, Police Stations, National Guard Armories (also hit up your local "Walmart" store for ammo or go check out the closest military base) and the occasional abandoned Police car. Yes, urban areas will present more dangers, but also more potential gain for players trying to survive and outfit themselves in a new world of horrors.

As far as best weapon types that would allow players to find reloads, more ammo of the same kind, for pistols; It seems like 9mm is a common type of ammo. For rifles it seems like the AR-15 and its ammo are pretty common. (5.56mm) The AR-15, M-16 and newer M400 are all "basically" the same.

Hypothetically, if/when things go to "hell" in the real world, I'm off to get weapons and ammo from the local police station, even if its full of zombies. The armory will be separated from the rest of the station and should be free of zombies. If the police station is full of zombies then my team of "highly trained personnel" (my wife and kids) will have to help me trick the zombies out of the building. Or I'll bring a ladder to access the roof from, and make my way down into the armory. Maybe after I get all the goods out I'll claim the station as my new home or make a run for the hills. The police station I work at is very new and high tech (electronic badges and such to get in) but even if I didn't work there I am sure I could find a way in. After all any damage I do...it's not like I'm going to be arrested for breaking in right? Honestly our armory is super protected but if you drove a construction truck or semi into the side of the building the walls will crumble, probably.

[whassupman03]

Hello...

For Pistols, the Cadco Medusa would be ideal. Unfortunately it is not a durable as some firearms, but its advantage is that is chambers almost anything in the 9mm caliber. This means that a single firearm, without modification, can fire:
Short 9 x 17
.380 Revolver
Ultra 9 x 18
Makarov 9 x 18
9 mm Browning Patronen (long)
9 mm Glisenti
9 mm Largo
9 mm IMI
9 mm Mauser
Parabellum 9 x 19
9 mm Rimmed
9 x 23 Steyr
9 mm Win Mag
9 mm Police
9 x 23 Winchester
9 mm Federal
R Japanese 9 x 22
.38 ACP
Super 38
.38 Long Colt
38 Short Colt
.38 S & W
.38 Special
TS & W .356
.357 Magnum

I did read a few articles about a very new caliber (Which may still be quite experimental...) called .327 Federal Magnum, which is fired by revolvers such as the Ruger Single-Seven. The round is small enough to allow for a seventh round in the cylinder, but it hits with just about enough punch to match the .357 if I remember correctly. Additionally, weapons that fire the .327 Federal Magnum can fire just about any .32 caliber round, so it would be good as a backup weapon if you're worried about finding small-caliber pistol ammunition, and using a variety of calibers can give you a range of firepower to adjust to the situation. But anyway, I thought that that was interesting. Please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

[wick]

RAW:
Small caliber firearms do 10% damage to zombies. It gives a range from .22 to .38 as being small caliber. (pg. 34)

so my 9mm round which is .355 caliber does 10%?

My .357 magnum does 10%?

The rule also does not differentiate between pistol and rifle rounds so .....5.56 MM (.225) or 7.62 MM (.300) only inflict 10% damage.


The book also mentions special ammo: explosive, hollow points, dum dums...so low caliber bullets don't do 10% if they have the special ammo? How common or legal are explosive rounds?

Medium and heavy machine guns do full damage. So I guess the same 7.62 round fired from a medium MG is fine, despite that same round fired from a rifle only doing 10%? A 7.62 X 51 MM round is interchangeable between an M-14 and an M240 after all.

Shotgun slug rounds do full damage, but shot does not. How much does shot do then?

This cannot be correct!

Do the makers of this game hate or even know anything about firearms?

[say652]

A 22 should inflict way more damage on a head shot.
The Pac-Man effect of ricochet inside of the skull.

[wick]

A 22 should inflict way more damage on a head shot.
The Pac-Man effect of ricochet inside of the skull.

True that.

But how about we reflect the supposedly poor damage a weapon does by just giving the weapon a low number of damage dice. Oh wait they already do have low damage dice. And zombie sturdiness is already reflect by AR and ridiculously high SDCs. Looks like the creators wanted to make zombies more durable than people so suggested 3 different approaches. In the end they could not decide which so went with all of the approaches.

[whassupman03]

Hello...

A 22 should inflict way more damage on a head shot.
The Pac-Man effect of ricochet inside of the skull.

That is why it is a favorite weapon for assassins. But anyway, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

[Trooper Jim]

I tend to ignore both the Zombie stats and the weapons stats. Since both were written by people with a crappy understanding of either. I prefer the stats from the Rifter article myself.

[flatline]

I tend to ignore both the Zombie stats and the weapons stats. Since both were written by people with a crappy understanding of either. I prefer the stats from the Rifter article myself.

Remove the numbers entirely. If the monsters have no stats and the weapons have no stats, then it's entirely up the GM to choose the result that seems the most appropriate.

[wick]

I tend to ignore both the Zombie stats and the weapons stats. Since both were written by people with a crappy understanding of either. I prefer the stats from the Rifter article myself.

Remove the numbers entirely. If the monsters have no stats and the weapons have no stats, then it's entirely up the GM to choose the result that seems the most appropriate.

Or develop a game that makes sense realistically and mathematically. I guess playing make believe is an option, but I don't think it would be very enjoyable.

[SittingBull]

I tend to ignore both the Zombie stats and the weapons stats. Since both were written by people with a crappy understanding of either. I prefer the stats from the Rifter article myself.

Remove the numbers entirely. If the monsters have no stats and the weapons have no stats, then it's entirely up the GM to choose the result that seems the most appropriate.

Or develop a game that makes sense realistically and mathematically. I guess playing make believe is an option, but I don't think it would be very enjoyable.

If you remove the numbers entirely then you are playing free-form.

[flatline]

I tend to ignore both the Zombie stats and the weapons stats. Since both were written by people with a crappy understanding of either. I prefer the stats from the Rifter article myself.

Remove the numbers entirely. If the monsters have no stats and the weapons have no stats, then it's entirely up the GM to choose the result that seems the most appropriate.

Or develop a game that makes sense realistically and mathematically. I guess playing make believe is an option, but I don't think it would be very enjoyable.

If you remove the numbers entirely then you are playing free-form.

This is eventually what happens with all the good groups I've played with. The further we get into a campaign, the less we rely on rules and the more we rely on GM fiat.

--flatline

[Alrik Vas]

HK USP, civ model of the Mk 23. Can be chambered for .45, 9mm and .40cal. 12 shot mag, very accurate, very durable. Expensive, but post zombie land cares not for your silly economics.

Also has a rail for attaching a flashlight, or if you get the military model, you can fit a.LAM.

Police, military and enthusiasts will own them.

[whassupman03]

Hello...

In North America if your characters "raid" National guard armory's and police stations you'll find .40 mm, 9 mm and 5.56 rounds and weapons mostly. So 9 mm and 40 mm pistols. Rifles will be AR-15, M16 or M400 mostly. IMO.

Not to shift subjects, but I am curious about finding ammunition in an armory. Recently, I read that in scenarios where looters raid National Guard armories they may find heavy weapons like machine guns, mortars, grenade launchers, etc., but they would not find the ammunition for said weapons. Ammunition is usually located in facilities known as "Ammunition Supply Points."[sup]1[/sup] The truth, however, is that I don't know if that applies mainly to heavy weapons, or if it applies to all of them. Personally, I would hypothesize that ammunition for small arms like pistols, shotguns, rifles, and perhaps submachine guns may be found, even if in limited quantities, but I'm not sure. Would anyone care to elaborate? I would greatly appreciate it. But anyway, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

Sources:

[1]: http://survivalblog.com/a_wilderness_hide_location_for/

[filo_clarke]

Hello...

In North America if your characters "raid" National guard armory's and police stations you'll find .40 mm, 9 mm and 5.56 rounds and weapons mostly. So 9 mm and 40 mm pistols. Rifles will be AR-15, M16 or M400 mostly. IMO.

Not to shift subjects, but I am curious about finding ammunition in an armory. Recently, I read that in scenarios where looters raid National Guard armories they may find heavy weapons like machine guns, mortars, grenade launchers, etc., but they would not find the ammunition for said weapons. Ammunition is usually located in facilities known as "Ammunition Supply Points."[sup]1[/sup] The truth, however, is that I don't know if that applies mainly to heavy weapons, or if it applies to all of them. Personally, I would hypothesize that ammunition for small arms like pistols, shotguns, rifles, and perhaps submachine guns may be found, even if in limited quantities, but I'm not sure. Would anyone care to elaborate? I would greatly appreciate it. But anyway, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

Sources:

[1]: http://survivalblog.com/a_wilderness_hide_location_for/

This is correct, in Canada at least. The Armory will have the weaponry, but an ammunition depot is where the bullets are stored. So you would find a bunch of well-maintained guns, but not a single bullet. Actually, that is not exactly true, as the armory guards are likely to be armed, and will have some ammunition.

I don't remember where I read it, but one of the best places to loot weapons, again in Canada mind you, was at the police station, but not the duty locker itself; rather the Evidence/Impound locker often had firearms that were a) illegal, and thus likely to be ones that civilians couldn't legally own (high capacity magazines, fully automatic, etc.) and b) stored with their ammunition as part of an ongoing criminal investigation (so their bullets were nearby).

But that's just my two-cents.

[FatherMorpheus]

In case of Zombie Apocalypse the firearm will outlast your ammo. So, for a game environment.

Three pistols to cover your 3 most common pistol calibers.
Ruger Mark III (.22 Long Rifle)
Glock 17 (9mm Handgun)
Glock 21 (45 ACP Handgun)

Three most common rifle calibers.
SKS or AK-47 (7.62 x 39) Common round
AR-15 (.223/5.56) Again super common
Savage Axis or Remington 700 (30-06 OR .308/762x51) Common hunting round vs. common military round.

Yes, you have to carry around 3 rifles and 3 handguns. But you will never know what type of ammo you will find. So having access to the 6 most common calibers is a serious advantage.

Another option:

Go for one ammo to fit a lot of your needs:

.357 Magnum or .44 Magnum Revolver

And Lever Action Carbine in the same caliber. That way both your rifle and pistol carry the same ammo.

[whassupman03]

Hello...

This is correct, in Canada at least. The Armory will have the weaponry, but an ammunition depot is where the bullets are stored. So you would find a bunch of well-maintained guns, but not a single bullet. Actually, that is not exactly true, as the armory guards are likely to be armed, and will have some ammunition.

I don't remember where I read it, but one of the best places to loot weapons, again in Canada mind you, was at the police station, but not the duty locker itself; rather the Evidence/Impound locker often had firearms that were a) illegal, and thus likely to be ones that civilians couldn't legally own (high capacity magazines, fully automatic, etc.) and b) stored with their ammunition as part of an ongoing criminal investigation (so their bullets were nearby).

But that's just my two-cents.

Good to hear. Hmm... I would think that you're right about the Evidence/Impound lockers being good sources of weapons and ammunition. It reminds me of the plot in Lethal Weapon 3.

In case of Zombie Apocalypse the firearm will outlast your ammo. So, for a game environment.

Three pistols to cover your 3 most common pistol calibers.
Ruger Mark III (.22 Long Rifle)
Glock 17 (9mm Handgun)
Glock 21 (45 ACP Handgun)

Three most common rifle calibers.
SKS or AK-47 (7.62 x 39) Common round
AR-15 (.223/5.56) Again super common
Savage Axis or Remington 700 (30-06 OR .308/762x51) Common hunting round vs. common military round.

Yes, you have to carry around 3 rifles and 3 handguns. But you will never know what type of ammo you will find. So having access to the 6 most common calibers is a serious advantage.

Another option:

Go for one ammo to fit a lot of your needs:

.357 Magnum or .44 Magnum Revolver

And Lever Action Carbine in the same caliber. That way both your rifle and pistol carry the same ammo.

Just curious - how would you be able to carry all of that around? Killing more than one type of prey is one thing, but man-packing all of that may prove troubling to say the least, not just for your back but for the ability to ready them as necessary. Likely, one would have to have a vehicle or a safe house to stash it all in. More importantly, you would also need the other gear to keep them running as well, such as magazines, spare parts, cleaning supplies, holsters for the sidearms and scabbards for the longarms, and of course a basic load of ammunition to live on. Not trying to blow holes in your strategy of course, but you would need some way to haul them and the necessary supplies and materials to keep them running, or at least a place to keep them safe. Ordinarily though, I would agree with your choices of firearms, in terms of interchangeability and versatility, but if I were to equip myself with that many weapons I would have chosen weapons that are a little more sturdy.

Personally, I would, for example, choose weapons that are made of stainless steel, so that my grandchildren would thank me for not buying polymer-based weapons that would decay over a long period of time and abuse, such as those of the Glocks you chose. Quite simply, I would look forward to not only present-day survival, but the long-term future as well. Rifles that I would choose would often be most of the choices that you made, except I would probably have an AR-10, considering a circa-2012 Wave and the resources available at the time. Speaking of such things, I would like to offer you a link to a concept for a survival battery, which may prove useful for not only you but all the Dead Reigners around here.[sup]1[/sup] Try it out if you will! Unfortunately, I have to go, so please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good night.

whassupman03

P.S.: Very funny things happened in this post, so see if you can find them!

[FatherMorpheus]

Hello...

[

In case of Zombie Apocalypse the firearm will outlast your ammo. So, for a game environment.

Three pistols to cover your 3 most common pistol calibers.
Ruger Mark III (.22 Long Rifle)
Glock 17 (9mm Handgun)
Glock 21 (45 ACP Handgun)

Three most common rifle calibers.
SKS or AK-47 (7.62 x 39) Common round
AR-15 (.223/5.56) Again super common
Savage Axis or Remington 700 (30-06 OR .308/762x51) Common hunting round vs. common military round.

Yes, you have to carry around 3 rifles and 3 handguns. But you will never know what type of ammo you will find. So having access to the 6 most common calibers is a serious advantage.

Another option:

Go for one ammo to fit a lot of your needs:

.357 Magnum or .44 Magnum Revolver

And Lever Action Carbine in the same caliber. That way both your rifle and pistol carry the same ammo.

Just curious - how would you be able to carry all of that around? Killing more than one type of prey is one thing, but man-packing all of that may prove troubling to say the least, not just for your back but for the ability to ready them as necessary. Likely, one would have to have a vehicle or a safe house to stash it all in. More importantly, you would also need the other gear to keep them running as well, such as magazines, spare parts, cleaning supplies, holsters for the sidearms and scabbards for the longarms, and of course a basic load of ammunition to live on. Not trying to blow holes in your strategy of course, but you would need some way to haul them and the necessary supplies and materials to keep them running, or at least a place to keep them safe. Ordinarily though, I would agree with your choices of firearms, in terms of interchangeability and versatility, but if I were to equip myself with that many weapons I would have chosen weapons that are a little more sturdy.

Personally, I would, for example, choose weapons that are made of stainless steel, so that my grandchildren would thank me for not buying polymer-based weapons that would decay over a long period of time and abuse, such as those of the Glocks you chose. Quite simply, I would look forward to not only present-day survival, but the long-term future as well. Rifles that I would choose would often be most of the choices that you made, except I would probably have an AR-10, considering a circa-2012 Wave and the resources available at the time. Speaking of such things, I would like to offer you a link to a concept for a survival battery, which may prove useful for not only you but all the Dead Reigners around here.[sup]1[/sup] Try it out if you will! Unfortunately, I have to go, so please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good night.

whassupman03

P.S.: Very funny things happened in this post, so see if you can find them!

Well the pistols total weight, if you had all 3 would run about 5 lbs empty. The rifles would run more weight, about 20 lbs total. So 25 lbs in firearms before ammo. And ammo would end up weight the most. A good cleaning kit for most things only weights about 2 lbs. So 27 lbs total before ammo. If you spread that out over a few people in your group, it isn't bad at all.

As for the stainless steel vs polymer debate. The first glocks showed up in the 1980s, and those original ones work just fine 35 years later. But your call on what you think you want to use in the Zombie infested land.

I specifically didn't say AR-10 for three reasons. One, it tends to limits you to 308, which while fairly common. Two, usually is more heavy than a standard hunting rifle. Three, it is overall more rare than a standard hunting rifle so parts can be hard to find.

Though, I'll admit part of me likes the whole idea of using .44 Mag pistol and lever action. If you have the right tools, you can cast your own bullets, crimp and reload your own rounds, and if you are careful even make your own powder. Sure you don't have a lot of range, but at least as long as you are careful with your brass you can keep going for a long time with what you are carrying on your pack.

[whassupman03]

Hello...

Well the pistols total weight, if you had all 3 would run about 5 lbs empty. The rifles would run more weight, about 20 lbs total. So 25 lbs in firearms before ammo. And ammo would end up weight the most. A good cleaning kit for most things only weights about 2 lbs. So 27 lbs total before ammo. If you spread that out over a few people in your group, it isn't bad at all.

As for the stainless steel vs polymer debate. The first glocks showed up in the 1980s, and those original ones work just fine 35 years later. But your call on what you think you want to use in the Zombie infested land.

I specifically didn't say AR-10 for three reasons. One, it tends to limits you to 308, which while fairly common. Two, usually is more heavy than a standard hunting rifle. Three, it is overall more rare than a standard hunting rifle so parts can be hard to find.

Though, I'll admit part of me likes the whole idea of using .44 Mag pistol and lever action. If you have the right tools, you can cast your own bullets, crimp and reload your own rounds, and if you are careful even make your own powder. Sure you don't have a lot of range, but at least as long as you are careful with your brass you can keep going for a long time with what you are carrying on your pack.

Ah, now I see what you are talking about now. Spread over a three-man hunting or scavenging team, it's not really that bad an encumbrance overall. However, I believe that if for example that three-man team goes on a mission, and one of the three runs out of ammo, he shouldn't have to worry about the fact that his buddy's ammunition and magazines wouldn't fit into his very own weapons, which could potentially reduce him to having to use a melee combat style. That is why I tend to believe in the concept of standard weapons, though post-Wave such a thing may be troublesome to achieve. Even so, I believe that if a group were to achieve such a "narrow but deep" arsenal, they could simply pick interchangeable weapons to take with them on the hunt, to avoid such dangerous logistical concerns, so that's why they would have to be either on at least four wheels or settled down in a safe haven. Long-term, that is why I would rather have an arsenal of stainless steel weapons, because they last a very long time, and as some would say, having them would earn you the thanks of very grateful descendants during a zombie apocalypse such as that in Dead Reign.

Oh and as for your opinion on the AR-10: I can understand your points about the rifle (My choice of the AR-10 was to use it both as a hunting weapon and as the battle rifle it was designed to be.), especially since I was thinking that all six weapons would be man-packed by one guy. What's great about the LAR-8 version of the AR-10 is that it accepts both FAL and G3 magazines, spare parts are somewhat available and interchangeable with other weapons built by its manufacturer, prices for the LAR-8s and the various items to go with it were getting cheaper that their counterparts when time was running out until the Wave would hit (Given a 2012-era Wave), and it can accept both .308 and 7.62x51mm NATO ammunition, meaning that both civilian and military ammunition will work in the darn thing (Fun fact: Unlike the situation with .223 and 5.56x45mm NATO, where you can fire both if the weapon was designed to fire NATO ammunition, the reverse is true with .308 and 7.62x51mm NATO, so if you have a .308, you can fire the NATO ammunition as well!). But anyway, thank you for sharing your ideas, so please take care and have a good night.

whassupman03