Quick note on Mages and Armor

[Tor]

You're still at the mercy, by and large mages are not intensely trained combat wombats that also just happen to have spells to cast. They aren't going to be as good in a gun fight as the men at arms and are unlikely to be as heavily equipped or have the range of options open to them.

Yup, the base classes in RUE can't even get sniper/sharpshooting far as I know.

That said: the freeness of PPE and being able to use it occasionally instead of armor/ammo probably does make it easier to save up credits for a 4000ft juicer rifle. Course that might be offset by being overcharged by mage-haters, having to pay mercs to protect you from the CS, etc.

Another thing ignored is that a mage has to stop doing everything to cast. If memory serves they can't just fire off a spell. run, blow something up with their rifle, fire off another spell run and dive for cover, etc. They have to stop doing -everything- and concentrate on doing the spell. If you're engaged in combat or even taking fire, you have to stop for an action or two to catch your breath and center yourself before you can try and cast another spell.

RP-wise maybe but mostly left up to GM judgment. The effects of running full-sprint on one's aim or casting (would seem to compromise either) isn't focused on much.

all mages tend to start with rifles in their equipment

Explicitly, or taking liberties with the 'energy weapon of choice' that often shows up? That could just as easily be a laser wand or stun gun.

Are you claiming that mages are not trained in the use of their starting gear? I would assume that they know how to put it on, how to wear it, and probably how to do simple maintenance like cleaning.

Not necessarily, a character is not guaranteed to have the skill to operate starting gear, that's just something the player usually organizes for their own convenience. Only in cases where it says stuff like "a weapon for each WP" or when we're explicitly told to select a weapon which corresponds with a starting WP skill can we guarantee this.

I'd wear 15 lbs of EBA when I'm out in the field if there's a significant chance that someone is going to shoot me. Heck, I might wear EBA simply for the air conditioning if it's hot enough out.

I'd be tempted to go for non-environmental due to lower costs and avoiding being a target for wreckage from a cyber-knight. The air-conditioning is tempting though. Albeit... if I had the creds I could get that from a robot vehicle without being as cramped.

Biomancy armor from South America and Millennium Tree Armor from England solve this issue nicely. Another possibility is to take the sewing skill twice (i.e. become a tailor), along with leather working, and tailor your own clothes out of MDC hides.

Anyone recall a book with MD-inflicting needles for this purpose? I think I saw it just can't recall where. Possibly something about using a laser-wand on the 1 MD setting to burn a tiny hole for putting thread through? Where do you get MDC thread? Or is there a way to stitch it so SDC thread is not exposed and will be protected by the hide?

[rem1093]

I always thought that the high penalty's were for the Full environmental armor only, so a heavy version of the SC clam shell would not be any problem? Also with that fact that there are a lot of types of soft armor (non-plate), that can be layered, you don't need to have a single suit of heavy armor.

Biomancy armor from South America and Millennium Tree Armor from England solve this issue nicely. Another possibility is to take the sewing skill twice (i.e. become a tailor), along with leather working, and tailor your own clothes out of MDC hides.

I'm glad you said about leather, because I was wondering if there are any rules on it, such as how much MDC the leather gets and it any of the natural ability's (such as resistant to fire, lighting, ext), stay with the leather?

[Tor]

There are MDC armors made from natural hides at the back of Rifts Canada and I think reprinted in some other places. They also built on variation on the Fury Bettle armor introduced in RMB. Mindwerks also had one based on that thing with the claw-arms

[Nightmask]

Biomancy armor from South America and Millennium Tree Armor from England solve this issue nicely. Another possibility is to take the sewing skill twice (i.e. become a tailor), along with leather working, and tailor your own clothes out of MDC hides.

Except those things are on the rare side and you'd need a generous GM in order to make such available to a PC (or for that matter make a Biomancer available as a PC since he'd eventually be leveled up enough make the armor for himself and others).

[Tor]

Wondering when in Rifts a rogue entrepreneurial biomancer will just mass-produce those things.

[flatline]

Wondering when in Rifts a rogue entrepreneurial biomancer will just mass-produce those things.

Absolutely.

It's so easy that it's worth the GM coming up with a reason why they aren't already easily available in the setting.

--flatline

[Tor]

Something like it needing PPE recharges if used X distance away from those Trees of Wisdom thing might be a nice limiter.

[Blue_Lion]

Why would a mage in armor tire faster than anyone else in armor?

My mages wear armor specifically so that they don't look like mages.

Wow. Really? Have you ever played football Flatline? Or done anything that requires the wearing of something beyond jeans and a teeshirt, or even a business suit? Anything that requries heavy gear, that restricts movement? I'm honestly asking, not trying to be insulting. Your post sort of hints that you haven't. Even just wearing the pads and uniform in football, the first thing you do when the game is over is peel that stuff off ASAP. I mean you fling it off. And that's just a few light plastic pads, some foam and an open faced helmet.

Putting on, wearing and hauling around extra gear, tires you out. And this is before you even get to full environmental armor strapped to every inch of your body and weighing you down, restricting movement etc. If you're not trained/used to it, it tires you out quick. Even if you -are- trained an used to it, it's not something you do unless you have to.

This sort of mentality is -exactly- what I'm talking about where people don't factor that sort of thing in when they want to play their commando mages. They're not trained and or used to wearing heavy armor. It's uncomfortable for those that are trained and use it all the time. It's going to be nigh on unbearable for those that aren't/don't. When you're used to unrestricted (For lack of better term) "Street clothes" and you don a suit of full EBA it's going to be horribly restrictive and uncomfortable. You're going to be clumbsy, bouncing off of things, knocking things over, unable to reach things you thought you could reach because the armor will bind on itself and catch. You can't just reach across to your oppisite hip because the plates restrict movement in different ways. Wayst hat only can be midigated or overcome with lots of usage and practice. When you wear the armor for days and weeks on end (Not constant, but often) You learn how you 'can' move. you learn the 'tricks' of the movement. you learn go gage how 'big' you are now with the armor shell around you. You learn how to bend and run (Not anywhere near as natural as you might think) with out pinching yourself in the armor (Perhaps damaging yourself, sometimes seriously) You learn to be able to kneel (NOT instinctive) and how to be able to get back up once you have. lol.

Wearing armor is more than 'I have it on my sheet'. If you give thought to it it's a tough ability that takes a number of skills rolled into one that takes time to master. Time that Mages, haven't put in, because as per the write up and rules.. they don't 'do' that.

I have worn body armor and I can tell you the training to wear it is to put armor on. So if a mage wore the armor as much as the wilderness scout he would be as well trained in wearing it. (you are training your body to wear the armor learning how to tolerate the load.) First time I had to wear armor it was for 9 hours straight it sucked but after a few months you get use to the suck.

[SpiritInterface]

I have worn body armor and I can tell you the training to wear it is to put armor on. So if a mage wore the armor as much as the wilderness scout he would be as well trained in wearing it. (you are training your body to wear the armor learning how to tolerate the load.) First time I had to wear armor it was for 9 hours straight it sucked but after a few months you get use to the suck.

God I remember that, they had us sleep in the damn stuff, MOPP gear was worse. You are right after wearing body armor for awhile it feels strange taking it off.

[Blue_Lion]

I have worn body armor and I can tell you the training to wear it is to put armor on. So if a mage wore the armor as much as the wilderness scout he would be as well trained in wearing it. (you are training your body to wear the armor learning how to tolerate the load.) First time I had to wear armor it was for 9 hours straight it sucked but after a few months you get use to the suck.

God I remember that, they had us sleep in the damn stuff, MOPP gear was worse. You are right after wearing body armor for awhile it feels strange taking it off.

MOPP 4 was not that bad, little hot but not that bad. The new suits are allot better than the old OG suits when I first joined.
My point was to train to wear it you where it. I am confused at what special training he thinks a man at arms gets that makes them tire slower.

[SpiritInterface]

I have worn body armor and I can tell you the training to wear it is to put armor on. So if a mage wore the armor as much as the wilderness scout he would be as well trained in wearing it. (you are training your body to wear the armor learning how to tolerate the load.) First time I had to wear armor it was for 9 hours straight it sucked but after a few months you get use to the suck.

God I remember that, they had us sleep in the damn stuff, MOPP gear was worse. You are right after wearing body armor for awhile it feels strange taking it off.

MOPP 4 was not that bad, little hot but not that bad. The new suits are allot better than the old OG suits when I first joined.
My point was to train to wear it you where it. I am confused at what special training he thinks a man at arms gets that makes them tire slower.

I don't know of this training he is talking about. As you have stated once you get used to wearing it properly fitted armor shouldn't slow you down that much. Full battle rattle and kit, plus armor may make move slower or wear you out faster. Unless he is talking about the quick march pace that was taught when I was in, it was faster that standard march and slower than a run.

As I see it adventurers practically live in their armor when on the job, and any mage who wears armor has gotten use to it so the only effect would be the impairment to their magic that has already been addressed.

[Hotrod]

Biomancy armor from South America and Millennium Tree Armor from England solve this issue nicely. Another possibility is to take the sewing skill twice (i.e. become a tailor), along with leather working, and tailor your own clothes out of MDC hides.

Anyone recall a book with MD-inflicting needles for this purpose? I think I saw it just can't recall where. Possibly something about using a laser-wand on the 1 MD setting to burn a tiny hole for putting thread through? Where do you get MDC thread? Or is there a way to stitch it so SDC thread is not exposed and will be protected by the hide?

There are several options you can use to make holes in MDC hide/leather. The Wilk's Laser Torch is one, if you're looking to burn a hole of a particular width. A thin vibro-knife or magical MDC pokey weapon can also do the job, although it could be difficult to work your thread through.

As for the thread, there are a number of options as well. The simplest option is to slice a thin, pliable MDC piece of leather into very narrow strips, similar to what you see in a baseball glove. Millennium Tree leaves should also work as a source for thin, pliable MDC strips. There's a magically tough thread from Palladium Fantasy that should be MDC in Rifts. You could also use strips of paper with silver runes on it, though that might not hold knots or shapes well when it gets wet.

[Brayon]

Biomancy armor from South America and Millennium Tree Armor from England solve this issue nicely. Another possibility is to take the sewing skill twice (i.e. become a tailor), along with leather working, and tailor your own clothes out of MDC hides.

Anyone recall a book with MD-inflicting needles for this purpose? I think I saw it just can't recall where. Possibly something about using a laser-wand on the 1 MD setting to burn a tiny hole for putting thread through? Where do you get MDC thread? Or is there a way to stitch it so SDC thread is not exposed and will be protected by the hide?

There are several options you can use to make holes in MDC hide/leather. The Wilk's Laser Torch is one, if you're looking to burn a hole of a particular width. A thin vibro-knife or magical MDC pokey weapon can also do the job, although it could be difficult to work your thread through.

As for the thread, there are a number of options as well. The simplest option is to slice a thin, pliable MDC piece of leather into very narrow strips, similar to what you see in a baseball glove. Millennium Tree leaves should also work as a source for thin, pliable MDC strips. There's a magically tough thread from Palladium Fantasy that should be MDC in Rifts. You could also use strips of paper with silver runes on it, though that might not hold knots or shapes well when it gets wet.

Both the Chaos Earth (Pre-Rifts), & the WB34 - NGR2 introduced the MDC line of Armor Clothing. Quite possible that MDC thread would be available for use in Armorsmithing, & Tailoring.

EDIT: New RIFTS reality TV show... Project MDC Runway... Being fashionable in your customized MDC outfit.

[Hotrod]

MDC leather outfits in my mind's eye look like something Davy Crockett would wear. MDC coonskin caps would be winsome.

[SittingBull]

"Anyone recall a book with MD-inflicting needles for this purpose? I think I saw it just can't recall where. Possibly something about using a laser-wand on the 1 MD setting to burn a tiny hole for putting thread through? Where do you get MDC thread? Or is there a way to stitch it so SDC thread is not exposed and will be protected by the hide?"

MD needles from any MD creature with quills or small spines. MD thread could be obtained like old style thread, from cat gut (or in this case MD cat gut).

[SpiritInterface]

"Anyone recall a book with MD-inflicting needles for this purpose? I think I saw it just can't recall where. Possibly something about using a laser-wand on the 1 MD setting to burn a tiny hole for putting thread through? Where do you get MDC thread? Or is there a way to stitch it so SDC thread is not exposed and will be protected by the hide?"

MD needles from any MD creature with quills or small spines. MD thread could be obtained like old style thread, from cat gut (or in this case MD cat gut).

WB 26 Dinosaur Swamp talks about fashioning armor and weapons, and I thought that the Dragon Hunters talked about it.

[torjones]

Yes. I know that some people ignore the write up's for mages that say they will not typically USE those laser rifles, that they see them as clunky and below them, and that they rely on their magic as they've dedicated their life to learning said magic. Some people ignore that and play them as commandos+ spells.

While I don't ignore the write up, I always saw it more like Star Wars Ep. 3, when Obi-Wan shoots Grievous with a blaster, walking away, he says "So uncivilized..." He did it because it was what was necessary to win (and not die), not "refuse to use because it's beneath them" kind of attitude. Just because I think that certain tools are inelegant, sometimes, inelegance is the only solution to a problem, therefor to not use the inelegant solution is to fail.