Praxian Crossbreeding Question

[13eowulf]

Have a question on Praxian fertility with other human/human related species, as they are listed in ueef marines, if the writers can assist me i'd be delighted...... considering the time frame UEEF marines is set, is there, by 2044 any interbreeding/marriage between praxians and humans (and Tirolians and zentraedi)? if so how would writers treat such offspring (Am tempted to treat praxian/human of offspring as praxian for game mechanic purposes regardless the sex)? it is a somewhat story important for my game in the 2044 period, so information especially from the writers is particularly helpful. angain.. tank you.

I volunteered to post this question for another. I do so verbatim, and having already expressed my opinion on the subject.
While the question is mainly directed towards the writers, I am sure all input would be welcome.

[Alrik Vas]

Those aliens might look human, but they're nothing like us!
-unconvinced RDF officer during first war

[Tiree]

Have a question on Praxian fertility with other human/human related species, as they are listed in ueef marines, if the writers can assist me i'd be delighted...... considering the time frame UEEF marines is set, is there, by 2044 any interbreeding/marriage between praxians and humans (and Tirolians and zentraedi)? if so how would writers treat such offspring (Am tempted to treat praxian/human of offspring as praxian for game mechanic purposes regardless the sex)? it is a somewhat story important for my game in the 2044 period, so information especially from the writers is particularly helpful. angain.. tank you.

I volunteered to post this question for another. I do so verbatim, and having already expressed my opinion on the subject.
While the question is mainly directed towards the writers, I am sure all input would be welcome.

How I work it is this way:

Without information provided for half breeds in the book, default to the following three choices:
1. It just doesn't work
2. The child will be fully Human or Alien, but not something in between (In the case of Praxian's if the child is a girl, treat as Praxian. If child is male, treat as Human).
3. In case of Alien on Alien genetics: The Child will be associated based on Gender of the child matching up with the Gender of the Parent. (Zentraedi Female & Male Tirolean: If child is Male, Tirolean. If child is Female, Zentraedi).

[Seto Kaiba]

Have a question on Praxian fertility with other human/human related species, as they are listed in ueef marines, if the writers can assist me i'd be delighted...... considering the time frame UEEF marines is set, is there, by 2044 any interbreeding/marriage between praxians and humans (and Tirolians and zentraedi)? if so how would writers treat such offspring (Am tempted to treat praxian/human of offspring as praxian for game mechanic purposes regardless the sex)? it is a somewhat story important for my game in the 2044 period, so information especially from the writers is particularly helpful. angain.. tank you.

I volunteered to post this question for another. I do so verbatim, and having already expressed my opinion on the subject.
While the question is mainly directed towards the writers, I am sure all input would be welcome.

Based on both the Prelude comic and Shadow Chronicles movie, the Earth Forces aren't exactly all that friendly towards alien species on a rank-and-file level. Kind of understandable, considering how often they've ended up on the receiving end of alien attacks, and it's unlikely that their views will change after receiving a significant backstabbing at the hands of the Haydonites.

On the whole, the Robotech setting seems to be strongly against the idea of alien-human hybrids. Marcus and Alex were very surprised to learn that one of their colleagues was "part-alien" in 2044, and there doesn't seem to have been much interaction with aliens outside of the formal meetings between the Sentinels council (whose membership was cut by half in the new canon to only a single representative per species) and the two Tirolian scientists who accompanied the UEEF into space (Rem and Cabell). We don't see any Tirolians inside the UEEF compound on Tirol either.

To date, we've only been presented with three human-alien hybrids... Max and Miriya's two daughters (Dana and Maia), and the as-of-yet unborn child of Lancer and Sera, all of which are treated as being unusual in the extreme.

I would say that there are likely virtually no hybrids between humans and any alien species in the Robotech setting... and we don't know if the Praxians or other humanoids are genetically compatible with humanity the way the Zentradi are. Human-looking doesn't necessary mean they're compatible enough to mate.



Genetics and cultural factors aside, the Praxians are your bog-standard space amazon... so I'd propose an approach to characters which follows the standard amazon tropes. If it's a male half-Praxian, built it off a standard human OCC. If it's a female half-Praxian, use the Praxian RCC.

[Brayon]

Before End of the Circle was axed from Canon, Praxians & Humans could breed. No details, aside that Lisa Hayes-Hunter writes at the End that Gina & Angelo, had a litter of Girls. So, guessing that all Human/Praxian pairings will result in Females only, until 2nd or 3rd generation & gene diluting.

[Alpha 11]

Before End of the Circle was axed from Canon, Praxians & Humans could breed. No details, aside that Lisa Hayes-Hunter writes at the End that Gina & Angelo, had a litter of Girls. So, guessing that all Human/Praxian pairings will result in Females only, until 2nd or 3rd generation & gene diluting.

IIRR, from the 1st ed. books, it was possible to have a male kid the natural way, but it was like 1 out of 100, that would be male. So you could use that info, if you want.

Have a question on Praxian fertility with other human/human related species, as they are listed in ueef marines, if the writers can assist me i'd be delighted...... considering the time frame UEEF marines is set, is there, by 2044 any interbreeding/marriage between praxians and humans (and Tirolians and zentraedi)? if so how would writers treat such offspring (Am tempted to treat praxian/human of offspring as praxian for game mechanic purposes regardless the sex)? it is a somewhat story important for my game in the 2044 period, so information especially from the writers is particularly helpful. angain.. tank you.

I volunteered to post this question for another. I do so verbatim, and having already expressed my opinion on the subject.
While the question is mainly directed towards the writers, I am sure all input would be welcome.

Based on both the Prelude comic and Shadow Chronicles movie, the Earth Forces aren't exactly all that friendly towards alien species on a rank-and-file level. Kind of understandable, considering how often they've ended up on the receiving end of alien attacks, and it's unlikely that their views will change after receiving a significant backstabbing at the hands of the Haydonites.

On the whole, the Robotech setting seems to be strongly against the idea of alien-human hybrids. Marcus and Alex were very surprised to learn that one of their colleagues was "part-alien" in 2044, and there doesn't seem to have been much interaction with aliens outside of the formal meetings between the Sentinels council (whose membership was cut by half in the new canon to only a single representative per species) and the two Tirolian scientists who accompanied the UEEF into space (Rem and Cabell). We don't see any Tirolians inside the UEEF compound on Tirol either.

To date, we've only been presented with three human-alien hybrids... Max and Miriya's two daughters (Dana and Maia), and the as-of-yet unborn child of Lancer and Sera, all of which are treated as being unusual in the extreme.

I would say that there are likely virtually no hybrids between humans and any alien species in the Robotech setting... and we don't know if the Praxians or other humanoids are genetically compatible with humanity the way the Zentradi are. Human-looking doesn't necessary mean they're compatible enough to mate.



Genetics and cultural factors aside, the Praxians are your bog-standard space amazon... so I'd propose an approach to characters which follows the standard amazon tropes. If it's a male half-Praxian, built it off a standard human OCC. If it's a female half-Praxian, use the Praxian RCC.

That don't make much sense though for the REF to be at arms length with them. They all have just spent the last how many years fighting and dying together. If that doesn't bring people closer together, I don't know what would.

[panzerfaust]

Have a question on Praxian fertility with other human/human related species, as they are listed in ueef marines, if the writers can assist me i'd be delighted...... considering the time frame UEEF marines is set, is there, by 2044 any interbreeding/marriage between praxians and humans (and Tirolians and zentraedi)? if so how would writers treat such offspring (Am tempted to treat praxian/human of offspring as praxian for game mechanic purposes regardless the sex)? it is a somewhat story important for my game in the 2044 period, so information especially from the writers is particularly helpful. angain.. tank you.

I volunteered to post this question for another. I do so verbatim, and having already expressed my opinion on the subject.
While the question is mainly directed towards the writers, I am sure all input would be welcome.

How I work it is this way:

Without information provided for half breeds in the book, default to the following three choices:
1. It just doesn't work
2. The child will be fully Human or Alien, but not something in between (In the case of Praxian's if the child is a girl, treat as Praxian. If child is male, treat as Human).
3. In case of Alien on Alien genetics: The Child will be associated based on Gender of the child matching up with the Gender of the Parent. (Zentraedi Female & Male Tirolean: If child is Male, Tirolean. If child is Female, Zentraedi).

I had thought of that, the third and second largely, the main issue it how genetics tends to work in real life, it tends to be a 50/50 mix in the offspring... on 2. praxians i'm willing to think are engineered to have there genetics dominant mostly, so I'm willing to go that the offspring with a human is praxian for intents and purposes game stat-wise regardless of sex (its not really game breaking there)....3. it gets interesting...... for a zent titrolian hybrid not to hard to just apply the zent hybrid rules with applying the the zent hybrid templates as needed on top of the tyrolian ones (again not game breaking really). I just wish we had gotten more info on the cultures and how human contact changed them during and after the sentinels war.

[ShadowLogan]

Have a question on Praxian fertility with other human/human related species, as they are listed in ueef marines, if the writers can assist me i'd be delighted...... considering the time frame UEEF marines is set, is there, by 2044 any interbreeding/marriage between praxians and humans (and Tirolians and zentraedi)? if so how would writers treat such offspring (Am tempted to treat praxian/human of offspring as praxian for game mechanic purposes regardless the sex)? it is a somewhat story important for my game in the 2044 period, so information especially from the writers is particularly helpful. angain.. tank you.

I volunteered to post this question for another. I do so verbatim, and having already expressed my opinion on the subject.
While the question is mainly directed towards the writers, I am sure all input would be welcome.

How I work it is this way:

Without information provided for half breeds in the book, default to the following three choices:
1. It just doesn't work
2. The child will be fully Human or Alien, but not something in between (In the case of Praxian's if the child is a girl, treat as Praxian. If child is male, treat as Human).
3. In case of Alien on Alien genetics: The Child will be associated based on Gender of the child matching up with the Gender of the Parent. (Zentraedi Female & Male Tirolean: If child is Male, Tirolean. If child is Female, Zentraedi).

I would go with this approach or refer to 1E writeup until something else comes along as it has precedence in Palladium's approach to half-breeds. It may not be how it works in real life, but the aliens could be said to have super-dominant gene expression.

To date, we've only been presented with three human-alien hybrids... Max and Miriya's two daughters (Dana and Maia), and the as-of-yet unborn child of Lancer and Sera, all of which are treated as being unusual in the extreme.

There is also a 3rd child of M&M mentioned in dialogue, though has not been developed. Dana mentions a brother in TRM saga.

We don't see any Tirolians inside the UEEF compound on Tirol either.

How would we even spot them if they are part of the UEEF formally, they'd be in uniform. Skin/hair color isn't going to tell us if they are Tirolian either (Scott, Lancer, Mia, Janice). Tirolians might be viewed as "human" and not "alien" based on DNA evidence from the show.

[Seto Kaiba]

That don't make much sense though for the REF to be at arms length with them. They all have just spent the last how many years fighting and dying together. If that doesn't bring people closer together, I don't know what would.

Did they really? The various specific depictions of the Sentinels era no longer apply per Harmony Gold's policy[sup]1[/sup] on that story arc, but in the older versions of the material the Sentinels aliens didn't exactly do a lot of fighting themselves. It was the UEEF's troops who did most of the fighting and dying to liberate their planets, what with several of the occupied worlds having been populated with technical pacifists or were otherwise ill-equipped to actually fight.

The attitude of open suspicion and contempt that UEEF personnel of all ranks display toward aliens of any stripe in the Prelude comic and Shadow Chronicles makes a lot more sense if those troops have had little-to-no actual contact with friendly aliens. Even within the UEEF itself, the units appear to be segregated on the basis of species... with all of the Zentradi placed in units that were exclusively composed of Zentradi troops, Miriya being the sole apparent exception and hybrids apparently counting as human because they lack obvious alien traits like being eight feet tall and blue-skinned.

To date, we've only been presented with three human-alien hybrids... Max and Miriya's two daughters (Dana and Maia), and the as-of-yet unborn child of Lancer and Sera, all of which are treated as being unusual in the extreme.

There is also a 3rd child of M&M mentioned in dialogue, though has not been developed. Dana mentions a brother in TRM saga.

Last anyone heard, hadn't that been dismissed by Carl and/or Tommy with "Dana was raised with Bowie, so she thinks of him as a brother"?

How would we even spot them if they are part of the UEEF formally, they'd be in uniform. Skin/hair color isn't going to tell us if they are Tirolian either (Scott, Lancer, Mia, Janice). Tirolians might be viewed as "human" and not "alien" based on DNA evidence from the show.

Thus far, Tommy has retconned alien troops in the UEEF to be obviously alien at-a-glance... all of the Zentradi, for instance, got a Breetai-style makeover into eight foot tall, Carolina blue linebackers.



1. See the Robotech.com FAQ for Sentinels on Archive.org. As Harmony Gold put it, only the "broad strokes" of the plot are still applicable to the post-reboot Robotech continuity.

[ShadowLogan]

Last anyone heard, hadn't that been dismissed by Carl and/or Tommy with "Dana was raised with Bowie, so she thinks of him as a brother"?

The "Bowie" explanation doesn't work with the actual dialogue line, "Bowie" is the reference in the McKinney Novels (which changed/trimmed the line to avoid reference to "brother" or Bowie in that scene but does have various references to them being "brother/sister" as they grew up together in the same house). The dialogue in Ep 50 goes
Dana: I always start thinking about my hometown when I come up here and people I left behind
Zor: Oh, and was one of them a boyfriend
Dana: no don't be silly just a younger brother

Basically Dana admits her younger brother is in (what she considers her) hometown and left him behind. Bowie just doesn't work with the stated dialogue.

Thus far, Tommy has retconned alien troops in the UEEF to be obviously alien at-a-glance... all of the Zentradi, for instance, got a Breetai-style makeover into eight foot tall, Carolina blue linebackers.

Those are Zentreadi though. We are talking about the Tirolians, and Rem and Cabell can pass for humans (not to mention Janice's holo form, and she is not human by any stretch). The only thing odd about Rem and Cabell is their attire, but if they are still civilians they can pretty much wear what they want (within reason of course) where military Tirolians in the UEEF likely would not given Breetai/Zentreadi.

[glitterboy2098]

and i don't think that the zentreadi thing was a retcon. the previous Wildstorm commics maintained the set up of the show.. that the zentreadi had a wide array of appearances. many of which looked just like humans, and some of which looked very different.

it would make sense, given that micronized zents are genetically the same as humans (as per the show), that zents that can pass as humans saw little to no discrimination once micronized and acculturated. but that those who could not pass as human due to atypical coloration would be always pegged as an outsider and get hit with anti-zentreadi/anti-alien discrimination/predjudice , and as a result might more closely adhere to their non-human traditions as a response to the discrimination.

you see it all the time in real life. in america one of the responses to racism against Black people and Asians, who could not easily blend into the largely european majority, was to more closely adhere to an idealized form of African and Asian cultural elements.. they developed a distinct sub-culture that mixed their previous cultural elements with those of the nation they were a part of.

the idea that Breetai, who himself was one of those who could never pass as human and who seemed (even in the show) to be trying to mix zentreadi and human traditions, would gather together a unit of similar individuals is not all that far fetched.

and it certainly fits better than claiming that prelude's art represents a retcon of the show, and every other canon comic.

[taalismn]

If you allow hybrids, I'd say that the Praxians don't come to Humanity with the same baggage of 'We nuked your planet. Sorry for the inconvenience' that the Zentraedi did, which would color the regard with which pure-blood humans see mixed unions. Unless the Praxians are REALLY arrogant about Terrans('weak males', 'confused females') from the get-go, any banter about a Terran man having offspring with a Praxian will be more along the lines of good-natured joking("Who really wears the pants, or the cuirass, in your family?" "So, who's on top?"), and the kids might be in for some ribbing about which side of their heritage they take after.
I'd be more worried about how the old-school Praxians would regard the offspring of mixed unions. They might see them as 'outside' the bounds of their spiritual world, 'diluted blood', or 'runts', and male offspring might be seen as aberrations in their eyes, such that a male of known Praxian blood would be ignored, even if he had a uniform and rank over Praxian recruits.

[Kagashi]

Unlike Rifts where there are no half breed offspring with a few specific exceptions (human-ogre for example), Robotech 2d Ed races up till the introduction of the not-called-Sentinels-anymore races have stats on how to deal with offspring between human and the other race. (Well, we dont have Invid either, but we know from LLA that Human-Invid conception is possible at this point). I do not see why any of the Sentinels races wouldnt be able to breed with humans save for the Spherians whom have specific breeding procedures in their write up. One may think that Karbarians and Guardians may be "too alien", but Perteryons and Paraxians are right there with Zentraedi, Tilorian, and Invid as far as the theme of hybrids 2d edition RPG and the Yuneiverse are concerned. With three confirmed races, and two highly probable, Id say the other two humanoid races might actually be in the running as well.

I wonder how we could do a Tirolian-Zentraedi hybrid.

Or an evolved Invid-Zentraedi hybrid.

Or if Louie has his way, a Human-Haydonite (Yune has some suppressed fetishes I think).

[drewkitty ~..~]

(Well, we dont have Invid either, but we know from LLA that Human-Invid conception is possible at this point).

What does LLA expand out to?
------------
Without getting into the RTM text (cause I don't have it yet), based on the rest of the RT2 gamebooks, For the Robotech setting that human-like humanoids can interbreed with humans (and maybe each other).

I would expect that they would have, like when humans cross with Ts&Zs, a modest bonus to the starting attributes of some sort.

However, this is conjecture based on related text. And the opinion is limited to human-like humanoids.

Note that the Robotech setting is outside the PB megaverse so not all the same rules apply to it. Which is why I am referencing the the current RT books, rather then any other PB gamebooks.
-----------

Unlike Rifts where there are no half breed offspring with a few specific exceptions (human-ogre for example),

More correct to say...., it is 'Unlike the rest of the PB megaverse...'. Outside of Rifts the PB megaverse includes Nine seperate Settings.

Rifts =/= PB Megaverse

[Seto Kaiba]

The "Bowie" explanation doesn't work with the actual dialogue line, "Bowie" is the reference in the McKinney Novels (which changed/trimmed the line to avoid reference to "brother" or Bowie in that scene but does have various references to them being "brother/sister" as they grew up together in the same house). The dialogue in Ep 50 goes
Dana: I always start thinking about my hometown when I come up here and people I left behind
Zor: Oh, and was one of them a boyfriend
Dana: no don't be silly just a younger brother

Small wonder it's dismissed out of hand, as the Sentinels material and everything that came after utterly invalidated it.

We are talking about the Tirolians, and Rem and Cabell can pass for humans (not to mention Janice's holo form, and she is not human by any stretch). The only thing odd about Rem and Cabell is their attire, but if they are still civilians they can pretty much wear what they want (within reason of course) where military Tirolians in the UEEF likely would not given Breetai/Zentreadi.

As seen in the series, many Tirolians are as obviously different at-a-glance as the Zentradi in Prelude... even if there were Tirolians among the UEEF, and the UEEF has never been officially depicted as incorporating Tirolian soldiers, they would almost certainly have been made to stand by Tommy the same way he did with the Zentradi by making them all eight feet tall and blue.

and i don't think that the zentreadi thing was a retcon. the previous Wildstorm commics maintained the set up of the show.. that the zentreadi had a wide array of appearances. many of which looked just like humans, and some of which looked very different.

Yes, the previous Wildstorm comics did that... but Prelude presents ALL Zentradi except Exedore as being abnormally tall and with non-human skin coloration. No other individuals besides Breetai were seen matching that profile in the series.

it would make sense, given that micronized zents are genetically the same as humans (as per the show), that zents that can pass as humans saw little to no discrimination once micronized and acculturated.

Even if they looked identical to humans, and many don't, their behavior would set them apart and make them natural targets for discrimination... and we know for an absolute, unimpeachable fact that hostility toward the Zentradi never went away thanks to Scott's remarks in the New Generation, official justification for Leonard's behavior, and of course the various statements about aliens being untrustworthy in Prelude.

What does LLA expand out to?

That'd be the Robotech adaptation of the MOSPEADA wrap-up OVA Love Live Alive.

They added, via new footage, that Lancer had impregnated Sera... but an Invid-Human hybrid is unlikely to be a significant factor, since a grand total of two humanoid Invid exist in the setting after the war.

[eliakon]

and i don't think that the zentreadi thing was a retcon. the previous Wildstorm commics maintained the set up of the show.. that the zentreadi had a wide array of appearances. many of which looked just like humans, and some of which looked very different.

Yes, the previous Wildstorm comics did that... but Prelude presents ALL Zentradi except Exedore as being abnormally tall and with non-human skin coloration. No other individuals besides Breetai were seen matching that profile in the series.

Since we only saw a tiny number of Zentradi its sort of impossible to tell if they are the baseline or not. They may or may not be exemplars of the entire race. With out any official statement to the fact that they are, it would be premature to claim that they have retroactively changed the Zentradi
Some Z are B =/= All Z are B and all that.

[glitterboy2098]

the one (and only) panel with multiple zentreadi in it in prelude
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/ ... zaiyzx.png

yes we see a bunch of tall blue skinned dunes. but nothing in the whole comic run suggests this is supposed to be a retcon. instead we get dialog about how Wolf squadron never expected to be fighting alongside the great Breetai.

and frankly, this panel can be explained very easily with existing canon if Breetai just recruited the Warlord phenotype (like himself), which going by the show is taller and more prone to odd coloration, to his personal unit.


as for all of the wild storm comics being different fro mthe show for zents..

let see..

Breetai
Show - http://www.robotechresearch.com/picture ... _large.jpg
Comic - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/ ... 7qicfv.png

funny, pretty much the same.

how about Azonia and Lord Reno?
Show Reno - http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/rob ... 0810221432
Show Azonia - http://www.robotechresearch.com/picture ... _large.jpg
Comic Azonia and Reno - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/ ... lhsbng.png
weird, very very similar. minor differences in hairdos and shading. about what you'd expect in a switch to comics as a medium.

oh, how about Khyron, that Warlord everyone loves to hate?
Show - http://www.robotechresearch.com/picture ... _large.jpg
comic - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/ ... tf773v.png

funny, pretty much the same.


how about Miryia?
Show - http://www.robotechresearch.com/picture ... _large.jpg
comic - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/ ... ev8quc.png

ok, maybe unnamed characters? the warrior level grunts?
Show - http://www.robotechresearch.com/picture ... _large.jpg
http://www.robotechresearch.com/picture ... _large.jpg
http://www.robotechresearch.com/picture ... _large.jpg


Comic - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/ ... rym6u7.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/ ... 8nctbt.png
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/ ... doojzr.png

to be a retcon we'd have to see the major events of the show depicted with a different series of events or with the different appearances. but we don't. instead we get the comics showing the same designs as used in the show.

and notably, we the addition of new characters like Lord Khron in Invasion (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/ ... 1vw89f.png ), we see a trend.. the warlord variety male Zentreadi tend to non-human coloration. Breetai, Khyron, Khron.. the outlier seems to be Lord Reno, but you'd expect some variation.

so please stop talking about a retcon, there is zero evidence for it. and just repeating the same incorrect statements over and over will not make it true.

[taalismn]

I wonder how we could do a Tirolian-Zentraedi hybrid.

Or an evolved Invid-Zentraedi hybrid.

Or if Louie has his way, a Human-Haydonite (Yune has some suppressed fetishes I think).

a) Pretty much as a Human-Zentraedi....The traits for greater average strength amongst Zentraedi are balanced out by the traits for generally weaker/lighter build among Tirolians,

b) So little data on what Lancer and Sera's kid is likely to come out as. Given that the Regis was planning on adapting her species to the human standard, the better to colonize Earth, how much of the Invid caste system would be reflected in the evolved Invid( such as the 'royal' bloodline traits as expressed by Arial and possible for Sera and Corg_ would be accessible by rank and file Invid) is up for debate. I figure that a mass second generation of converted lower rank Invid would be like the Simulagent OCC, only with the more powerful traits locked. Given that the Zentraedi were MADE using Protoculture-based medicine, they might have a greater propensity for unlocking those abilities in the kids...or maybe not.

c) Adopt, Or build your own(or see the Shemarrian Fan Creations thread over in Rifts for Progen reproduction...basically an alien handwavium-powered technology that combines the traits of machine and organic parents and uses the equivalent of a nanotech 3d printer to create a child)

[ShadowLogan]

Small wonder it's dismissed out of hand, as the Sentinels material and everything that came after utterly invalidated it.

IINM its basically the same lines given in the OSM version of the scene.

Later incarnations do dismiss it, but it doesn't mean that Dana can't have a younger actual brother who wasn't at the wedding since we don't know how much younger he was. Now the Novels DO CUT that line out to avoid the issue entirely.

As seen in the series, many Tirolians are as obviously different at-a-glance as the Zentradi in Prelude... even if there were Tirolians among the UEEF, and the UEEF has never been officially depicted as incorporating Tirolian soldiers, they would almost certainly have been made to stand by Tommy the same way he did with the Zentradi by making them all eight feet tall and blue.

Tirolians, unlike Zentreadi, are 100% genetically identical to humans that is established in the dialogue. The Zentreadi float from being identical to nearly identical depending on epsisodes.

The main difference between Tirolians and humans in the series boils down to pale skin tones (that based on lighting can given them other colors) and funky hair colors, neither of which would stand out given Scott and Lancer both have funky hair colors and no one accuses them of being aliens. Mia and JANICE both have odd purple & pink shade of hair, Miryia's green hair didn't peg her as an alien either (nor did Zor Prime's and Musica's locks give them away to general public). Odd hair color isn't going to peg anyone as an alien in RT as people, even in the military, apparently have the freedom to dye their hair any color they want.

[Kagashi]

I wonder how we could do a Tirolian-Zentraedi hybrid.

Or an evolved Invid-Zentraedi hybrid.

Or if Louie has his way, a Human-Haydonite (Yune has some suppressed fetishes I think).

a) Pretty much as a Human-Zentraedi....The traits for greater average strength amongst Zentraedi are balanced out by the traits for generally weaker/lighter build among Tirolians,

b) So little data on what Lancer and Sera's kid is likely to come out as. Given that the Regis was planning on adapting her species to the human standard, the better to colonize Earth, how much of the Invid caste system would be reflected in the evolved Invid( such as the 'royal' bloodline traits as expressed by Arial and possible for Sera and Corg_ would be accessible by rank and file Invid) is up for debate. I figure that a mass second generation of converted lower rank Invid would be like the Simulagent OCC, only with the more powerful traits locked. Given that the Zentraedi were MADE using Protoculture-based medicine, they might have a greater propensity for unlocking those abilities in the kids...or maybe not.

c) Adopt, Or build your own(or see the Shemarrian Fan Creations thread over in Rifts for Progen reproduction...basically an alien handwavium-powered technology that combines the traits of machine and organic parents and uses the equivalent of a nanotech 3d printer to create a child)

A) It will all basically get down to what number of dice you roll during character creation. A half human-half Zentraedi depends on the caste of the Zentraedi parent. Doesnt matter for the human, since there is only one caste and all attributes are 3D6 with extra dice rolls for 16+.

But when you get a micronized female Warrior Elite Warlord that mates with a male Tirolian Clone Master, Id imagine the offspring would have the following attribute character creation based on page 15 of New Gen by combining the modifiers of each caste:

IQ: 3D6 +2 (5-20)
ME: 3D6 -1D4 +1 (3-15)
MA: 3D6 -1D4 (2-14)
PS: 3D6 (3-18)
PP: 3D6 +1D6 (4-24)
PE: 3D6 (3-18)
PB: 3D6 (3-18)
Spd: 3D6 (3-18)

B) Thats an awesome point about the powers either being suppressed/amplified more so than the standard Simulagent/Invid Royalty OCCs. What would the Attribute rolls for character creation be? Perhaps since Zentraedi gives bonuses to the basic human attributes in a Human-Zent offspring, Zentraedi (and Tirolian) caste influence would just be added to the base of the Invid attributes as well. So a Female Invid breeding with a Male Zentraedi Warlord, Id imagine it would look like this:

IQ: 1D6+14 (15-20)
ME: 1D6+13 -1D6 (8-18)
MA: 1D6+12 (13-18)
PS: 1D4+11 +1D6 (13-21)
PP: 1D6+13 (14-19)
PE: 1D4+14 +1D4 (16-22)
PB: 1d6+14 (15-20)
Spd: 1D6+18 (19-24)

+2D6 SDC, +1 Init, -2 vs Insanity

Plus possible Invid powers (Sense Protoculture, Protoculture Optics, Sense Other Invid, Teleporation via Energy, Simple Teleportation, Telepathic Communication, Pilot Commander and Overlord); which can basically be argued as not having it, exactly the same as an Invid Royalty/Simulagent, or amplified due to the protoculture nature of the Zentraedi blood. Of course, a Warlord's augmented strength when micronized is lost when genes are passed down to human-Zentraedi hybrids, but that is a physical transfer; and, the Invid powers are instinctual/psionic in nature. Perhaps the offspring needs to have at least the basic Invid mental attributes (IQ 15, ME 14, MA 12) to enjoy the Invid powers. So there is a chance the powers are bread out if the mental rolls are below the threshold. And if they have it, the Zentraedi blood amplifies by 10% or something.

B.2) If breeding with a human, such as the Lancer-Sara offspring, we need a new chart of bonuses to add to the typical 3D6 rolls for humans.

I propose:
IQ: +2
PS: +1D4 (males)
PS: -2 (females)
PP: +1
PB: +2
Spd: +1D6

Of course, if we do this chart, similar to page 15 of New Gen for Tirolian/Zentreadi hybrids, might as well treat Invid the same and just combine these modifiers with the RPG canon on page 15 to a standard 3D6 roll, thus the Female Invid/Zentraedi Warlord would look like:

IQ: 3D6 +2 (5-20)
ME: 3D6 -1D6 (2-12)
MA: 3D6 (3-18)
PS: 3D6-2 +1D6 (2-22)
PP: 3D6+1 (4-19)
PE: 3D6 +1D4 (4-22)
PB: 3D6+2 (5-20)
Spd: 3D6 +1D6 (4-24)

+2D6 SDC, +1 Init, -2 vs Insanity

This means because of the Warlord blood, the powers would definitely be bred out (not even capable of reaching the minimal ME of 14), if the above assumptions are the route to go.

C) I can see Louie and Janice holding hands and snuggling as their 3D printed baby is printed.

[taalismn]

[

+2D6 SDC, +1 Init, -2 vs Insanity
.

A MINUS vs insanity? Ewww....Khyron Syndrome. And if the worlds of Robotech ever start genetic screening for mental illness, this poor sap's going to be discriminated out of various high=pressure professions due to their perceived susceptibility to cracking.

[NMI]

The reported post violates no rules, whether as written or the spirit of said rules.

The reporter of said post may contact me via PM if they wish to dispute my decision.

[Seto Kaiba]

and frankly, this panel can be explained very easily with existing canon if Breetai just recruited the Warlord phenotype (like himself), which going by the show is taller and more prone to odd coloration, to his personal unit.

The problem with this logic is that, in 30 years of Robotech, Breetai was the ONLY one depicted as having that coloration in any source except Prelude.

The number of Zentradi survivors in general is allegedly very small, and almost entirely situated in the UEEF... so where did all the blue-skinned people come from? There's literally no other sound explanation apart from a retcon, and to be frank you literally made my case for me by proving that blue-skinned Zentradi are virtually unheard-of.

(The text of the RPG also suggests the "retcon" interpretation is the correct one, since the show has Zentradi miclone to human size rather than being substantially larger than normal humans. Now, all of the sudden, every Zentradi is built like Breetai, and the RPG alleges that Zentradi troops have trouble even fitting into the cockpits of human mecha.)

IINM its basically the same lines given in the OSM version of the scene.

More or less... except instead of home town, Jeanne is referring to the family she left behind on Liberte when she moved to Glorie.

Later incarnations do dismiss it, but it doesn't mean that Dana can't have a younger actual brother who wasn't at the wedding since we don't know how much younger he was. Now the Novels DO CUT that line out to avoid the issue entirely.

His existence is never referenced again, though, and the subsequent material makes it out that (like their OSM counterparts), the Sterlings only had daughters.

Tirolians, unlike Zentreadi, are 100% genetically identical to humans that is established in the dialogue. The Zentreadi float from being identical to nearly identical depending on epsisodes.

They've got a history of being wrong about that... like they were with the Zentradi. But I'd think the real "sniff test" failure would be that being ghastly pale, blue or purple is generally a sign of imminent death in humans rather than something you see every day.

(The obvious exception being the Blue Man Group, but that's stage makeup...)

[eliakon]

and frankly, this panel can be explained very easily with existing canon if Breetai just recruited the Warlord phenotype (like himself), which going by the show is taller and more prone to odd coloration, to his personal unit.

The problem with this logic is that, in 30 years of Robotech, Breetai was the ONLY one depicted as having that coloration in any source except Prelude.

The number of Zentradi survivors in general is allegedly very small, and almost entirely situated in the UEEF... so where did all the blue-skinned people come from? There's literally no other sound explanation apart from a retcon, and to be frank you literally made my case for me by proving that blue-skinned Zentradi are virtually unheard-of.

(The text of the RPG also suggests the "retcon" interpretation is the correct one, since the show has Zentradi miclone to human size rather than being substantially larger than normal humans. Now, all of the sudden, every Zentradi is built like Breetai, and the RPG alleges that Zentradi troops have trouble even fitting into the cockpits of human mecha.)

So when, and if we get an actual statement that this is the actual new 'generic zentradi' then yes, undoubtedly it would be a retcon.
As it is right now though it is up in the air as to what it is. We don't know if its a retcon, if its some sort of subtype not seen before, if its survivors from a different fleet/picket/whatever that were designed differently, if they decided to make clones of Breetai using the Bioroid pilot process.....we simply do not have enough information.

Tirolians, unlike Zentreadi, are 100% genetically identical to humans that is established in the dialogue. The Zentreadi float from being identical to nearly identical depending on epsisodes.

They've got a history of being wrong about that... like they were with the Zentradi. But I'd think the real "sniff test" failure would be that being ghastly pale, blue or purple is generally a sign of imminent death in humans rather than something you see every day.

(The obvious exception being the Blue Man Group, but that's stage makeup...)

Or perhaps the possible explanation is that in anime that characters are color coded for convenience. And that genetics are treated as suggestions not rules....Blue hair + Green hair = Blonde Hair

[glitterboy2098]

and frankly, this panel can be explained very easily with existing canon if Breetai just recruited the Warlord phenotype (like himself), which going by the show is taller and more prone to odd coloration, to his personal unit.

The problem with this logic is that, in 30 years of Robotech, Breetai was the ONLY one depicted as having that coloration in any source except Prelude.

The number of Zentradi survivors in general is allegedly very small, and almost entirely situated in the UEEF... so where did all the blue-skinned people come from? There's literally no other sound explanation apart from a retcon, and to be frank you literally made my case for me by proving that blue-skinned Zentradi are virtually unheard-of.

actually the more plausible explanation is "there were more and we just didn't see them"
given that we only see a couple dozen zentreadi outside their mecha in enough detail to determine this stuff, and there are billions of them, you can't say for sure that breetai was the only one like himself. or the same for khyron.

hell.. the Zentreadi are clones. odds are there are hundreds if not thousands of copies of each individual in the fleet.

and no i did not make your case for you, because you have no case. your argument is "well we've never seen it before so it must be a change" when that does not follow logically. lack of evidence is not evidence of lack. just because we did not see it before does not mean it does not exist.

[drewkitty ~..~]

In the Macross movie, Love, do you remember? (the Clash of the Bionoids english dub) Mirria add numerals after her personal name.

[taalismn]

In the Macross movie, Love, do you remember? (the Clash of the Bionoids english dub) Mirria add numerals after her personal name.

Depending on how it's expected to be parsed, it could be a serial number, 'number x Miriya-clone' , 'Miriya, Variant x of Strain Y of Geneline z, of Baby Factory #m, Daisy Hill Puppy Farm..'

[glitterboy2098]

i could see it being like the "birth number" from Star War's clone troopers.. each clone gets a unique numerical designation, and only gets a name after training. and each otherwise identical clone uses haircuts, tattoos, and minor armor/uniform customization to make themselves more unique, and as their career progresses, scars, cybernetic replacements, and so on separate them out even more.

the zentreadi obviously have more genetic diversity overall, but i suspect that every combination of genes gets used hundreds of thousands of times.

those zentreadi in the comic panel may well be all clones of the same genetic line as Breetai.


Brrr... just thought of a unit made of all Miryia line clones..

[drewkitty ~..~]

There is also the Protoculture Chamber from the 'The return of the Masters' book where the text it is where new Zentradie are created. With the computer giving the new zent it's personality architectures.

[glitterboy2098]

given we see Robotech Master's directly overseeing the cloning in Love and War #2 on board a factory, full blown cloning tanks may be a factory only thing, and then only at certain times.

that said, a micronization chamber is going to be a form of cloning system too, so i suspect that with a bit of reprogramming it could be used for that. perhaps the master's could remote activate it for that purpose or something.

[Seto Kaiba]

actually the more plausible explanation is "there were more and we just didn't see them"

Unless it's established that there are more... that's just supposition. Breetai is the sole example of a commander with that coloration and build, and we see numerous commander types in the series.

hell.. the Zentreadi are clones. odds are there are hundreds if not thousands of copies of each individual in the fleet.

That they are clones does not necessarily entail that they are all identical, genetically... there are cloning techniques that entail the combining of multiple strands of genetic code to create an artificial, but unique, organism.

Also, while there might have originally been multiple copies of individuals in the fleet, the massive attrition involved (to the point of being virtually, if not functionally, extinct per the series) makes it profoundly unlikely that there would be so many examples of the particular build and coloration traits unique to Breetai among a group that was already the rarest Zentradi genotype. There's also a relevant confirmation in the RPG that the Zentradi have been retconned to be larger than humans, with the mention that the Bioroid Interceptor exists in part because the Zentradi were having trouble fitting into the Alpha and Beta. That shouldn't be an issue for a rank-and-file Zentradi trooper, who in the series was no larger than an average human at miclone size.

Depending on how it's expected to be parsed, it could be a serial number, 'number x Miriya-clone' , 'Miriya, Variant x of Strain Y of Geneline z, of Baby Factory #m, Daisy Hill Puppy Farm..'

All told, it's just an individual's unique identifier within their fleet... though there are not necessarily multiples of an individual soldier active at the same time, nor does that mean that that genetic baseline has existed for the entirety of their 500,000 year war, or that two individuals off the same genetic baseline are even part of the same numbering sequence.

If the numbering were more information-rich, it'd be too long to be useful... there are literally millions of clone synthesis systems in the Zentradi logistical chain, servicing thousands of main fleets, each with billions of soldiers. They exhibit all the genetic diversity you'd expect from a galaxy-spanning species created by a precursor race for whom genetic engineering was child's play... more so than humanity by a significant margin. They're genetically similar enough to interbreed with humanity, because humanity was also built off the same genetic baseline in Macross, though a number of the Zentradi's more unique traits appear to be dominant... like unusual skin or hair coloration, greater resistance to physical injury and trauma, and other even stranger traits.

(Of course, the Zor in Southern Cross also exhibit a number of traits that are not part of baseline humanity as the result of a couple thousand years of exposure to the protozor and the expected genetic drift.)

Virtually none of that, of course, is directly applicable to Robotech... which, on average, seems to take a much less optimistic view of interspecies romance, and writes off the genetic similarities between species as coincidence.

[glitterboy2098]

guess what seto.. unless HG comes out to say prelude was a retcon?

Prelude itself constitutes the canon establishing there was more. as does the (canon!) Invasion comic storyline about mars Base Sera. Lord Khron was a blueskin just like breetai, though his facial features are closer to Khyrons.

and no being clones does not mean they are all identical.. but unless you want to assume billions of unique genetic samples used to create them, which is unlikely, there is going to be a lot of duplication.

[ShadowLogan]

His existence is never referenced again, though, and the subsequent material makes it out that (like their OSM counterparts), the Sterlings only had daughters.

That could mean several things though that boil down to making him not important to the story being told for some reason. I mean it wasn't until TSC that we found out that Marlene (21st MD, Scott's fiancé) even had a sibling, Vince Grant is a post TMS invention, etc.

They've got a history of being wrong about that... like they were with the Zentradi. But I'd think the real "sniff test" failure would be that being ghastly pale, blue or purple is generally a sign of imminent death in humans rather than something you see every day.

Yes the Zentreadi tend to float back and forth depending on the episode, but at no time do they make that statement about the Tirolians. They actually checked and verified the findings. So while we can put forward that the Zentreadi aren't 100% human because of dialogue changes between episodes, we can not say that about the Tirolians.

From Ep42: "Danger Zone"
RedHairDr: We'll have to start rechecking our findings right away… we've got to be absolutely sure
Emerson: Are you suggesting Zor is human and not a miniaturized Zentraedi you mean Dana and Bowie where actually correct in their observations
BrownHairDr: Yes we triple checked our analysis and it always came out the same sir
Emerson: So then we're fighting our own kind

[devillin]

the zentreadi obviously have more genetic diversity overall, but i suspect that every combination of genes gets used hundreds of thousands of times.

those zentreadi in the comic panel may well be all clones of the same genetic line as Breetai.


Brrr... just thought of a unit made of all Miryia line clones..

In Macross Frontier there were a couple of episodes where they encountered a picket force that had a Breetai and Khyron (Kwamzine(?)) clone in command. I think the majority of the Zentraedi in that force were clones of the main Zentraedi from the original series, just a couple of years younger.

[devillin]

His existence is never referenced again, though, and the subsequent material makes it out that (like their OSM counterparts), the Sterlings only had daughters.

That could mean several things though that boil down to making him not important to the story being told for some reason. I mean it wasn't until TSC that we found out that Marlene (21st MD, Scott's fiancé) even had a sibling, Vince Grant is a post TMS invention, etc.

Actually, it was always implied that Claudia had a sibling, since she wasn't Bowie's mother. Since he is supposedly the same age as Dana, that means his father would be roughly the same age as her, just maybe younger.