Imai designs that Marines Sourcebook didn't use

[dataweaver]

The Imai files were consulted heavily during the production of the Marine Sourcebook; and much of its Mospeada-related content made int into the book. To the best of my knowledge, here's what didn't, along with notes onhow they might be used by fans:

• p.15: a VR-11 with its tires extended as hoverfans. Debatable, in that a very similar picture featuring the VR-015 doing something very similar did make it in, and was possibly inspired by this picture.
• pp.17–19: an “early Legioss” in battloid and guardian modes, and a “Vector” in fighter mode. Lumped together because they were probably the same mecha design. Possible use as an Alpha prototype or an early Alpha: Shadow Chronicles has stated that the Alpha has stayed relevant over the years through constant upgrades; it's possible that its appearance evolved over time because of that, and that the Alpha of the Marine Sourcebook timeframe may have looked more like this. Alternately, the Vector might have been the last of the VF-series Veritechs as the designs shifted from the Valkyrie-style to the Alpha-style.
• pp.20–21: a “Super Vector” in battloid and fighter modes. Same usage options as the aforementioned Vector design, though I'd be more inclined to treat it as a “missing link” than as an “early Alpha”; plus:
• pp.22-23: the Super Vector mounted on a “Span Loader” in a manner similar to the Alpha/Beta combination, and a “Span Loader” on its own. Of note is that the “Span Loader” is not transformable; it could serve as a precursor to the Beta that ends up seeing a long service history, possibly even providing transatmospheric capabilities to the Alpha once it replaces the Super Vector until the Beta enters production.
• p.32: an ostrich-like Invid.
• p.33: a small Invid “battle walker”. Possibly repurpose it as a stealthy non-flying scout?
• pp.36–37: “VAC and Bike” — a Veritech with a pilot's compartment that can separate into a transforming hoverbike (detailed on pp.40–44). Neat concept; but doesn't fit into the existing timeline. Maybe a hypothetical future-era design?
• p.51: the Destroids (Tiger, Cougar, Jackyl, Boxer), along with a Condor, an Alpha, and a Beta.
• p.53: an Atlanta dropship, alongside a Horizon and an Alpha+Beta. Grist for a “UEEF Fleet Sourcebook”?
• p.54: more spacecraft designs: Izumo Mothership, Gargantua Mothership, Battleship Gardenia, Destroyer Barbarian, Battleship Bilkenia, Colony Battery Cannon-Boy, Fast Attack Destroyer, Crab-Pot Drop-Pod (probably Neutron-S Missiles). 'Nuff said.
• p.55: space fighters
• p.56: mecha designs serving as holdovers from “previous war”. Repurpose as mecha for one of the more humanoid Sentinel species?
• p.71: Wolf troop transport.
• p.73: a more detailed look at the Condor and Cougar.
• pp.91–94: Alpha variants: with space loadout; armored Alpha; recon Alpha; ground combat Alpha.

[Arnie100]

I wish they HAD used the Vector. It would have given us another veritech to play with.

[glitterboy2098]

part of the problem with the vector is that the three modes most people claim is the vector are actually three different designs if you go by the appearance. the guardian mode shares some elements with the battlloid, but lacks a bunch as well, and the fighter modes lacks elements from both!

this makes translating it to a single RPG unit tricky.. especially since the battloid and fighter modes lack a lot of stuff like obvious weapons.

that said, i'd have loved to have seen some of the IMAI file's alpha derived battloids used. they could easily be something like the Condor.. Destroid type units based on modified VF chassis.

[devillin]

Truth be told, they would have made more sense than putting Alpha parts on the Sentinels destroids.

[dataweaver]

What would have made even more sense would have been to publish the Imai Destroids.

[glitterboy2098]

Truth be told, they would have made more sense than putting Alpha parts on the Sentinels destroids.

except that ARE NOT ALPHA PARTS. the scales and proportions are all wrong for them to be directly off the alpha.

rather they use similar aesthetics (meaning appearances) as the Alpha. which given the condor and the bioroid interceptor also use those aesthetics, is not a big deal. it's just a distinctive design style unique to the UEEF.

much like how German armored vehicles tend to have a certain style to them, which is different from American ones or Russian ones..

[dataweaver]

That's technically true. However, the issue being presented is an aesthetic one. The Destroids found in the Marines Sourcebook look ugly because of the Alpha-like parts integrated into them — the designs feel too… busy, and lack the elegant simplicity found in the designs they were originally based on.

[taalismn]

That's technically true. However, the issue being presented is an aesthetic one. The Destroids found in the Marines Sourcebook look ugly because of the Alpha-like parts integrated into them — the designs feel too… busy, and lack the elegant simplicity found in the designs they were originally based on.

That, and the Marines Destroids look ugly because some of the perspective angles and proportions are off. The conscious eye might not immediately catch it, but if you're detail-oriented, something nags at you as not right until you figure it out.

Part of the added busy-ness or clutter in the design is an attempt to make an original design with the same degree of technical hardness as the original Macross Destroid art, where the designs were teeming with little build lines and access panels and whatnot, as opposed to the almost plushy-roundness of the Sentinels Destroids.

[dataweaver]

That, and the Marines Destroids look ugly because some of the perspective angles and proportions are off. The conscious eye might not immediately catch it, but if you're detail-oriented, something nags at you as not right until you figure it out.

True. And I think that's part of my problem with the bike modes of the Space Cyclones: it seems to me that if the thing is going to be up in the air, having the lift systems all the way at the bottom would make it needlessly top-heavy. I would have preferred if the front and back parts, where you'd find wheels on other Cyclone designs, were elevated much closer to the front-end assembly and the seat, respectively.

Also, the proportions thing is probably why the Zentreadi walker designs look so amazing, despite (or possibly even because of) their copious Alpha-isms.

Part of the added busy-ness or clutter in the design is an attempt to make an original design with the same degree of technical hardness as the original Macross Destroid art, where the designs were teeming with little build lines and access panels and whatnot, as opposed to the almost plushy-roundness of the Sentinels Destroids.

I don't know about that. I recently dug out my copy of the original Sentinels RPG and did a side-by-side comparison of the Destroids found there vs. Their counterparts in the Macross Saga Sourcebook; and the Sentinels Destroids held up quite well in the comparison.

[devillin]

To me, an upgrade to the designs is like comparing a standard Master Grade Gundam to a Master Grade done by Katoki (ver. ka). It's basically the same, but some proportions are changed and additional details added. What we have here are the original designs having basically random parts added for no reason. If they had to change the images because they were afraid of being sued for using their own original designs, then they could have gone the route FASA did when they did their Japanese version of Battletech and have someone redraw them as round or boxy or something other than tossing random parts on them. I could probably live with the additional Alpha parts if the missile systems that are in those parts were actually still present on the Destroid. I could live with those things being an armor upgrade, and the destroids basically looking the same as the Sentinels designs underneath.

[taalismn]

To me, an upgrade to the designs is like comparing a standard Master Grade Gundam to a Master Grade done by Katoki (ver. ka). It's basically the same, but some proportions are changed and additional details added. What we have here are the original designs having basically random parts added for no reason. If they had to change the images because they were afraid of being sued for using their own original designs, then they could have gone the route FASA did when they did their Japanese version of Battletech and have someone redraw them as round or boxy or something other than tossing random parts on them. I could probably live with the additional Alpha parts if the missile systems that are in those parts were actually still present on the Destroid. I could live with those things being an armor upgrade, and the destroids basically looking the same as the Sentinels designs underneath.

I cringe at the first re-incarnations of the Battletech Unseen presented in the Tech Readouts. They looked dashed off(in part due to, I imagine, they didn't want them too complex for quick miniature modeling) and Gumby-isc. Later artists began to do better things with the basic lines, but ye gods those first attempts were NOT promising...