Body Armors for D-Bees

[Wiserbud]

So I recently started a new gaming group (none of whom had ever played Rifts before except myself), and with my main long running group soon returning to Rifts after a decade long hiatus, I will be posting a bit more on the forums haha.

This thread is about body armors for unsually shaped or large D-bees and aliens.

How do you guys deal with PCs whom have special needs when it comes to armor? How do you determine price, M.D.C., availability, repair costs, weight, etc.?

A body armor for an Ogre has to be larger, which needs more materials thus costs more. A larger armor, made for creatures whom ususally possess greater P.S. scores can wear heavyer, bulkier armors. Such armors should have more M.D.C.s, right?

What about creatures with unusual heads or legs, or extra arms?

Which manufacturers would make such body armors? Northern Gun is the top armor manufacturers in North America for adventurers and mercs, considering their alliance with teh Coalition States, would they even manufacture armors for D-Bee?

I can fudge it in my camgaigns, I'm just curious to know how other groups are dealing with this.

[Bill]

I am away from my books, but IIRC rules for customizing armor appear in New West and Arzno. Giant armor appears in Triax and South America I. The piecemeal M.D.C. hide armor from Dinosaur Swamp may also be useful.

[Alrik Vas]

Yeah, larger armors would have more MDC. Using the rules in Triax seems the best way to do it. Repairs wouldn't be more (repairs are expensive enough) as the additional cost would be equal to the amount of extra MDC. I'm not familiar with what's in Arzno, so I can't speak to the changes from inhuman anatomy.

As far as NG producing armors for inhuman builds, I think they still would. NG does a lot things the CS doesn't like for the sake of business. The additional costs might be in NG1 or 2, or in Triax where it talks about larger armors.

[Wiserbud]

If anyone can give me some page numbers for the references in the books that would be great!

I'm looking but I can't seem to find it (must be failing a boat load of Perception checks).


Thank you

[Brayon]

I would Home Rule it as a 10% to 30% increase in MDC per location for Larger Armors. Also, World Book 33, NG2 has the new Clothing line of MDC cloth armor, that says they would do Custom Sizing based on the individuals need. Granted, they are in an alliance with the Coalition, so YMMV if a D-Bee goes there for a fitting.

[Shorty Lickens]

I would say custom shaped armor for a non-humanoid costs anywhere between double and quadruple the price of a normal set.

I'd think many D-bees would also prefer certain styles or materials. Some might only like armor from their home planet in which case they'd have to do a lot of work for a smith that can make their native equipment.

I could also forsee situations where less than scrupulous dealers might take advantage of d-bees unfamiliar with Earth armor. Maybe promising them features the armor doesnt have, or much more protection than is really offered, using SDC materials, giving them restricted armor like stolen or salvaged CS military items (getting them in trouble with the law).

[Blue_Lion]

I would say custom shaped armor for a non-humanoid costs anywhere between double and quadruple the price of a normal set.

I'd think many D-bees would also prefer certain styles or materials. Some might only like armor from their home planet in which case they'd have to do a lot of work for a smith that can make their native equipment.

I could also forsee situations where less than scrupulous dealers might take advantage of d-bees unfamiliar with Earth armor. Maybe promising them features the armor doesnt have, or much more protection than is really offered, using SDC materials, giving them restricted armor like stolen or salvaged CS military items (getting them in trouble with the law).

The only people that using salvaged CS armor would get you in trouble with is the CS. The DB is already in trouble with them for not being acceptable with the CS. Also according to flavor text CS gear is in high demand by black market customers.

Most dbees are either close to human shape or MD on their own. So it comes down to how different the Dbee is and how big the market is for them. A kingdom with high number of wolfen in it like say Kingsdale might have off the shelf armor for the Dbee.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Northern gun welcomes DBees. They don't feature in adds that play in the CS but NG takes their money happily. They can't hold officer status in the company, but other than that they're welcomed as second class citizens. At most they use side doors in businesses or something but the NG book states specificly that no shop keeper would refuse them service. And that's in the main cities. The further from the big city the more common they are. A Dbee in a high class restraunt at high noon might get a few looks but after the sun goes down or not in the 'middle' of town and it's no biggie. They even have full DBee communities and many DBees flee to NG to escape the CS and still live in a safe area. (Source Northern Gun 1 Page 16 "Northern Gun Policy on DBees")

As for customization, NG does do such for Dbees. Customization of NG armor runs "500-3000 credits" (NG-2 pg 49)
NG even has armors specifically built for non human customers. The Thunder Hound is built on the humanoid dog frame (For Dog boys or other canine Dbees) (NG2 pg154)

If you read the last sentence in the Thunder Hound Entry it states straight up there's feline versions as well, and "DBee morphology (i.e.Grackle tooth, etc) for the right price behind closed doors. NG makes some noise about them being knock offs but the entry reads directly that it's a bold faced lie, and that NG makes the armor itself and just denies it to appease any CS people looking thier way.

There's even a unit designation DB-003 but costs an additional 250,000 (This is Power armor, so.. power armor customized to Dbee standard) The origional is 970,000, so lets call it 1,000,000 +250,000 for the DBee version.

Using this extrapolation. "DBee Customization for Power armor is +25% on the cost.

Boom. Done.

[dragonfett]

For races with multiple sets of arms, I would say +20% base cost of the armor per set of additional arms.

For races with multiple sets of legs (such as centaurs), 3x the cost for the first set of extra legs, and increase the multiplier by one for every extra set of legs after that (are there any races/RCC's known with more than 4 legs?)

The reason for the much higher price for extra legs is two fold. The first would be that while the torso will likely remain unchanged (I know of no races that have multiple sets of both legs and arms, at least not with out bionic reconstruction), the bottom half of the armor will have to be a custom job from the ground up. And secondly, it is very likely to use as much material (if not more) for the bottom as a normal, human sized set of armor.

[dragonfett]

Looking in Merc Ops for another thread, I saw that NG offers their NG-A10 in a variety of sizes to accommodate larger D-Bees, with the larger armors having about 50% more MDC to main body, and the cost going from 36k credits to 50k-75k credits depending on the actual final size.

[guardiandashi]

For races with multiple sets of arms, I would say +20% base cost of the armor per set of additional arms.

For races with multiple sets of legs (such as centaurs), 3x the cost for the first set of extra legs, and increase the multiplier by one for every extra set of legs after that (are there any races/RCC's known with more than 4 legs?)

The reason for the much higher price for extra legs is two fold. The first would be that while the torso will likely remain unchanged (I know of no races that have multiple sets of both legs and arms, at least not with out bionic reconstruction), the bottom half of the armor will have to be a custom job from the ground up. And secondly, it is very likely to use as much material (if not more) for the bottom as a normal, human sized set of armor.

actually for some reason I want to say I remember an entry about barding (typical term for armor for animals such as horses, dogs, elephants etc. was ~4x the cost as for humanoids. )

of course now that I say that and think about it some more its also possible that I am pulling that number from D&D.

[Wiserbud]

Thanks everyone for your input. I think this will be my official house rule for my two gaming groups:

Size difference will be 50% increase in MDC and price for "large" creatures, and 100% for "huge" creatures.

Different anatomy will incur a 10 to 100% to price increase depending on the extent of the differences from a human. GM is final arbiter.

[flatline]

Thanks everyone for your input. I think this will be my official house rule for my two gaming groups:

Size difference will be 50% increase in MDC and price for "large" creatures, and 100% for "huge" creatures.

Different anatomy will incur a 10 to 100% to price increase depending on the extent of the differences from a human. GM is final arbiter.

Why does larger armor have more MDC?

Does a larger window have more SDC? A single pebble will still shatter it.

[kaid]

Thanks everyone for your input. I think this will be my official house rule for my two gaming groups:

Size difference will be 50% increase in MDC and price for "large" creatures, and 100% for "huge" creatures.

Different anatomy will incur a 10 to 100% to price increase depending on the extent of the differences from a human. GM is final arbiter.

Why does larger armor have more MDC?

Does a larger window have more SDC? A single pebble will still shatter it.

Larger armor having more MDC is I think just a matter of the person wearing it is generally going to be physically stronger to be able to plate more armor onto the set than a normal human could comfortably lift. It is also why juicer armors tend to have more armor because you know the intended recipients are capable of lifting a lot more weight than would be typical.

[Pepsi Jedi]

For races with multiple sets of arms, I would say +20% base cost of the armor per set of additional arms.

For races with multiple sets of legs (such as centaurs), 3x the cost for the first set of extra legs, and increase the multiplier by one for every extra set of legs after that (are there any races/RCC's known with more than 4 legs?)

The reason for the much higher price for extra legs is two fold. The first would be that while the torso will likely remain unchanged (I know of no races that have multiple sets of both legs and arms, at least not with out bionic reconstruction), the bottom half of the armor will have to be a custom job from the ground up. And secondly, it is very likely to use as much material (if not more) for the bottom as a normal, human sized set of armor.

actually for some reason I want to say I remember an entry about barding (typical term for armor for animals such as horses, dogs, elephants etc. was ~4x the cost as for humanoids. )

of course now that I say that and think about it some more its also possible that I am pulling that number from D&D.

There's barding in the NG books, for horses, but I'll admit I didn't read into it. As there's only one race that it'd really apply to (Centars, or something centar like) It's never really factored on my radar.

If you're riding a flesh and blood horse in an MDC setting.. well. lol Save the money on the barding. You know? could probably buy 20 back up horses and feed for the same ammount.

[Blue_Lion]

Thanks everyone for your input. I think this will be my official house rule for my two gaming groups:

Size difference will be 50% increase in MDC and price for "large" creatures, and 100% for "huge" creatures.

Different anatomy will incur a 10 to 100% to price increase depending on the extent of the differences from a human. GM is final arbiter.

Why does larger armor have more MDC?

Does a larger window have more SDC? A single pebble will still shatter it.

Loan star had large sized "dog boy armor" for bigger mutant animals. As did the armor listed earlier. If I recall they had more MDC, would be a good way to come up with a by the book reference. (Do not base it off just one suit but check for a pattern. But the pattern is there by the books.) It could have more MDC because the writers saw it as having thicker walls as well as more space.

[Slight001]

As for why you get more mdc on a larger frame... the increased surface area means an increase in the volume of plating that can be placed before inhibiting the desired level of movement.

[Blue_Lion]

As for why you get more mdc on a larger frame... the increased surface area means an increase in the volume of plating that can be placed before inhibiting the desired level of movement.

That is one theory another is that increasing the surface area is more easily pierced and needs to be thicker to provide the same protection. That was a problem they had in medieval armor. You have to do more than just make them larger and thicker to keep the same level of protection. This can be seen in modern army plate carriers as well the small and medium armor lacks the mettle reinforcement found in large armors. That is fun fact from teaching land nave to deploying units. To put simply A 10'X10' window is easer to break than a glass bottle of the same thickness.

In addition although a larger frame can carry more weight it places increased stress on joint already under high stress and may cause issues in some terrain.

The more md for being bigger may be proven by canon but it can be argued both ways. There are many factors that determine the protection of armor such as size, shape, angle of impact and thickness all play into how effective armor is so without hard facts on the physics it can be reasonable argued either way.

[Alrik Vas]

Very true, but rifts hasn't really ever been a game with those kinds of concerns.

[Tor]

A body armor for an Ogre has to be larger, which needs more materials thus costs more.

Not necessarily the case, miniaturization can be costly, more people could be capable of making larger armors since it doesn't require as much micronization tech to instill the systems.

They don't necessarily have to have more MDC either. Someone might make a bigger armor but keep it around the same weight or MDC or cost because they make it relatively thinner.