VFH-10 AGAC Veritech Add-ons (Fan Fiction)

[ShadowLogan]

The Following is FAN-FICTION. I was intrigued by the idea of doing expansions for the AGAC from the discussion in my Logan Add-on version of this topic.

AGAC Add-ON Development Scenarios and Notes
I am presenting TWO different approaches to integrating these features into the 2E RPG and when they might become available. It is possible to create a hybrid approach and mix and match between the scenarios, but I leave that to individual GMs to decide. The UEDF developed them concurrent with the AGAC development program, but they where not able to be put into mass production (low-rate production at best, prototypes only) until the end of the war. Alternatively, all of the systems are developed by the UEEF in the 2030s to support their AGACs in use as experience is gained (if you have the UEEF using the AGAC as the series suggests is possible). I have attempted to write them independent of which approach a GM takes.

The actual design of the AGAC makes add-on development placement difficult that can follow the mecha through all modes of operation, though some places are available for mode limiting options. At least compared to the other Veritech Fighter. Feel free to add your own add-ons or discuss ideas along this line.

Jet Fighter Mode Boosters (2 or 3): Mounting to the outer side of the top mounted jet engines and (optionally) on the dorsal surface of the tail is a disposable booster package that must be jettisoned before transforming to battloid mode and propulsion aspects can not function in Helicopter Mode. The system is available for atmospheric use when the AGAC is needed to be rapidly redeployed. As a disposable system payload options where kept small and to "disposable" systems, usually a rail station equal to a VF-8 Logan. Performance increase is equal to the OMS-2 (in space ADD OMS-2 speed to AGAC). Concept studies are known to exist that try to create breakaway recoverable attack drones out of these locations, but they have the same technological maturity issue as the Beta (maybe even more given the state of AI development) in the 2020s into early 2030s. A battloid only variation also exists, but can not mount to the tail, but are mounted to a different part of the jet engines, the Battloid only option prevents use of the Hub-Station. Mode limited options are the only way this works give the movement of the top mounted jet engines between various modes IMHO.

Blade Launcher Replacements (4): Intended for Space Only operations when the Helicopter mode would not be used, the normal blades are replaced with deformed "blades" that are specifically built with the normal blades propulsion abilities (ie maneuvering jets), but in the deformed space is a narrow tube. The "deformity" extends in only one direction, allowing these replacement blades to swing back flush with each other as the baseline version. The tube can be configured to act as a 190mm SRM missile launcher (each holds x4 SRMs, with a Rate of fire of 1 per action can be combined in volleys of 2-4) or to act as a booster (F mode speed increase by the OMS-2 pg200-1 Masters SB, Battloid mode double any type of dodge bonus), typically the SRM option is used. While this option can be used in atmosphere for Fighter Mode flight, the "blades" will not work for Helicopter flight due to their shape and other alterations to allow them to "enhance" in other areas.

Over-Wing Boosters (2): On top of each wing, a single mission pod with booster engine could be mounted. The engine is taken from an VF-8 Logan Veritech ironically, and is optimized to counter the mass of the OWB module alone and to provide sufficient energy to power to its "payload", though some operational crews and pilots are known to favor a more "tuned" approach for improved performance. The module also sports a front modular mission bay and a single (outer) side mounted rail station taken from the VF-8 Logan 'spares' inventory. The mission back can be configured with any of the following options (pick 1, other options may exist):
-Mini Missile Launcher (essentially they packed/rigged x3 RL-4 on pg189 of Masters SB, alternatively you could also go with RL-6s for the UEEF instead)
-IWS-40 (rate of fire is restricted to once every other attack, faster rates are possible but not advised)
-EU-20 Gunpod, modified to fit into the booster it is no longer a hand-held weapon, it recharges at 1/4 the rate of the Logan
-LPW-20 Plasma cannon from the Logan, podded with its own capacitor and recharged by the booster engine (payload equal to Logan's EU-20, recharge is as the modified EU-20 above)
-VEF-1 Jamming Pod (typically only used with AWACs Hub option)

Hub Station (1): The central rotor mast can be used to mount several different payload options that does not effect the transformation system as the mounting hub is located above the rotors (think AH-64s equipped with Longbow system). In order to accommodate the AGAC transformation ability, the helicopter rotors could not be mechanically linked to the engines easily and it was just easier to use electrical transfer of power. This allows the Add-on module to draw electrical power, but not fuel, from the AGAC. Mission Options (pick 1):
-Rifled Booster. A compact booster using the Logan's main engine, with fuel for 60seconds of max power thrust (engine is throttlable). It increase the speed of the AGAC by 10%. The booster is also designed to act as a mount/de-mount station for an EU-10/11/12 ASC Mecha rifle. The Rifle can be fired in any mode, though in battloid mode it must be done via the mecha's hands. It should be noted that the pilot has to use one attack to draw/holster the weapon due to awkward positioning. The module also boasts a recharging station (equal to VHT-1), though it has a spotty track record (a future Block upgrade for the UEDF is intended to address the issue but is not ready when it enters mass production)
-Command Booster. Similar to the Rifled Booster in basic design, but instead of a gunpod mount, a limited Command and Control module is placed here. Plans call for a command model of the AGAC to be procured in the future. C&C Avionics are equal to a VFA-6H for networking purposes
-Recon Booster. As the Command Booster, only instead of the C&C hardware reconnaissance type sensors are used taken from the AHR-15 (option #1 or #2 for Special Sensors of Note)
-Light Missile Launcher Booster. Built upon the Rifled Booster, the gunpod hardware is replaced with a missile launcher equal to ONE upper arm/shoulder station on the Alpha's MM-60
-Large Missile Launcher Booster. Using an AWACs style disk structure like the VEF-1 (or ES-11, EC33B), the thin module acts as the dorsal FAST Pack on the VF-1, providing additional fuel, thrust (by engine) and missile capacity (far in excess of the the Blade Launcher Replacement Option). The Booster provides +25% increase to speed in space, but otherwise is similar to the VF-1 system in terms of performance (payload of SRMs is equal to ONE of the two modules)
-AWACs. Reduce speed by -5%, but other wise the AGAC is expected to operate as the VEF-1 did. The OWB and wing hard points are occupied with 4 VEF-1. Due to being a one person craft, when acting as an AWACs controller the mecha pilot is -1 attack per melee.

Optional IWS-40 Replacement (1 or 2):
-EU-20 modified to work with being mounted to the AGAC's forearm. This gives the AGAC drastically increased range at the expense of fire power (just under 1/2). The gun draws power from the AGAC directly without effecting the rate of fire giving it an unlimited payload as the IWS-40
-M-57 modified to be mounted to the forearm and used by the AGAC, complete with GL. Intended to increase the effective range w/o sacrificing as much fire power. The gun can draw enough power from the AGAC to not effect the rate of fire giving it an unlimited payload as the IWS-40. The Grenade Launcher (GL) was retained to give the AGAC some anti-infantry capability, since weight was less an issue for the AGAC an extended magazine for the GL is used (x3 payload).

Optional LLW-20 Replacement (1): While the LLW-20 class laser was standard on the Alpha and VF-1, the TC wanted something with a bit more omph. They experimented with the 7.62mm Ion weapons of the non-transformable Battloids, but found the reduced range to much for the little gain in stopping power. They looked at integrating some version of the Logan's LPW-20 tri-cannon, but found it difficult to repackage the system into the head module of the AGACs. They experimented with the HxW-6 series of heavy infantry weapons (Masters SB pg187-8) and found they could fit everything into the package easily enough. The AGACs would be used to recharge the HxW-6's power pack on the fly (equal to HALF the Slyphid Fighter's nose lasers).

[Arnie100]

Cool stuff! (Preps armored bunker for debate sure to follow)

[taalismn]

Again, ShadowLOgan, you deliver. Printing this to hardcopy.
While I'm still not entirely convinced the Ajax is a worthy mecha without Three Galaxies/Rifts levels of ubermunchy tech(and magic) infusions, your article goes substantially to redeeming it in its home universe.

[The Artist Formerly]

What does this bring to the party that either the dedicated space fighter doesn't? And how does it out perform the Macross super VT?

[ShadowLogan]

Given that the Super VT isn't in service with the UEDF: ASC in 2029-30 when the AGAC enters service, the question is pointless.

Against the ASC's Chimera, it is more versatile in the various roles it can assume.

[Colonel Wolfe]

What does this bring to the party that either the dedicated space fighter doesn't? And how does it out perform the Macross super VT?

Standard Fighters lack decent combat bonuses nor auto-dodge. The Base Ajax has an Auto-dodge in every mode, compared to the limitations of the VF-1 being locked in Fighter mode to retain these bonuses. these 2nd generation fighters also fixed the fragile nature of the Vf-1's Fly-by-wire, allowing the system to operate regardless of damage sustained in combat. as compared to the Fast-packs on the VF-1 (the "Super-VT") any one of these systems created by Shadowlogan could act as an equivalent to the Fast-pack or Grenadier-box armor; giving the mecha's combat bonuses a bump as well.

@ShadowLogan: Have you thought of developing Armor systems akin to the GBP and Joulton armor for the Logan or Ajax?

[ShadowLogan]

@Col. Wolfe
At this time no. I have considered a GBP-1S feature for the Logan, but haven't gotten around to fleshing it out, and haven't really considered it for the AGAC. Though both should be able to have some form of GBP-1S available.

I view the Joulton/Orguss armor as an extension of the Fast Pack idea, since the idea is to retain transformation ability with the VF-1. Though as I understand it, the Joulton would have additional protection plates which might be a bit harder to do with the AGAC or Logan. I really haven't considered that aspect.

[glitterboy2098]

a VF in the Jotun armor, according to RTT, cannot transform though.

i'd say rather than bein it being an extension of fast packs (since concept wise it's closer to the GBP-1), i'd say it was an attempt to develop a newer alternative to the GBP-1, and they used FAST pack components in there to provide commonality of parts.

[The Artist Formerly]

Given that the Super VT isn't in service with the UEDF: ASC in 2029-30 when the AGAC enters service, the question is pointless.

Against the ASC's Chimera, it is more versatile in the various roles it can assume.

Ah, it's not seen on screen.

Stacked against the Chimera, when you factor in the Logan, the Ajax doesn't shine. The benefits the Ajax has are noteworthy, but not great. The benefit of the Macross VT vs the traditional fighter plane or the Lancer Space fighter. Sure (though I think the Lancer doesn't get the respect it deserves). Cyclone vs dragoon infantry, no problem. Gladiator vs a MDC tank. Yeah.

Let me break this down. You don't change my mind on how the Ajax isn't a silly idea, show me how your upgrade package would allow it to decidedly out perform those it and how you'd deploy this in game.

[ShadowLogan]

Stacked against the Chimera, when you factor in the Logan, the Ajax doesn't shine. The benefits the Ajax has are noteworthy, but not great. The benefit of the Macross VT vs the traditional fighter plane or the Lancer Space fighter. Sure (though I think the Lancer doesn't get the respect it deserves). Cyclone vs dragoon infantry, no problem. Gladiator vs a MDC tank. Yeah.

The AGAC still shines against the Logan as I shown in the Logan Thread as the AGAC offers a better starting point for upgrades the mecha.

Even if we factor in the Logan with the Chimera (which requires ignoring 2 statements in 1E line found in pg57 Bk4, doesn't apply to 2E), the AGAC still shines. The mecha is a good blend of abilities between the two platforms, which simplifies the logistical support needed. With the proper add-ons, the AGAC can be made to equal or exceed a Chimera.

a VF in the Jotun armor, according to RTT, cannot transform though.

Okay, I was going off the uRRG description of the system as I wasn't aware it was covered in RT yet (don't really follow the mini's).

[glitterboy2098]

yeah, they made it in alongside the YF-4 as a wave-2 unit.

http://www.crittohit.com/images/resize/ ... kyries.jpg

it got an entry in the main rulebook too.

the gun on the shield is the Gu-11, and it has what you'd expect, a "hailstorm" back and arm packs off a Super VF. the extra armor abouts doubles its durability in the game. (so basically, the torso armor boosts the main body MDC by a bunch.. a bit more than the GBP-1 actually)

[The Artist Formerly]

The AGAC still shines against the Logan as I shown in the Logan Thread as the AGAC offers a better starting point for upgrades the mecha.

Even if we factor in the Logan with the Chimera (which requires ignoring 2 statements in 1E line found in pg57 Bk4, doesn't apply to 2E), the AGAC still shines. The mecha is a good blend of abilities between the two platforms, which simplifies the logistical support needed. With the proper add-ons, the AGAC can be made to equal or exceed a Chimera.

Ehh... okay.

I'd still think the Lancer (no relation) system from Macross for space superiority with the Chimera for close support and to screen the fleets would be the best fit for anti-Zentraedi in space. Support from the combat shuttles, and Logans for breaching actions and VHTs for boarding once you have a beach head.

Come to think of it, what do the masters even have for fighter operations? Just hover sled bioroids and bioroid carriers, right?

[ShadowLogan]

I'd still think the Lancer (no relation) system from Macross for space superiority with the Chimera for close support and to screen the fleets would be the best fit for anti-Zentraedi in space. Support from the combat shuttles, and Logans for breaching actions and VHTs for boarding once you have a beach head.

Come to think of it, what do the masters even have for fighter operations? Just hover sled bioroids and bioroid carriers, right?

The ASC's "combat shuttles" in 1E though really aren't the ships they would use, they would use the Tri-Star and her sister classes (not to mention the Tokagawas) that where not covered in 1E, and not really covered much in 2E (Tri-Star is).

The Lancer is likely to have been retired long ago. The Chimera overall is not a replacement for the AGAC. I'm not even sure the AGAC is intended to replace the Chimera, it looks to be intended to compliment it. The use of VHTs in space appears to be one of desperation by the ASC.

The Masters use those Bioroid Carriers for fighter operations, based on the animation. "Volunteers" suggests that they might have a "fighter" sized object that resembled the carrier that the shuttle's where waxing.

[taalismn]

Chimera for plastering fighter formations and small capital ships, AGACs for close-in hairball dogfighting?

[Alrik Vas]

All units for getting creamed by dudes on hoversleds...for some reason. @.@

In space, no one can hear you physicxplain.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Chimera for plastering fighter formations and small capital ships, AGACs for close-in hairball dogfighting?

Yes, the Chimera is literally a flying missile battery. Its interesting, but in Prelude to Battle, The Masters deploy the shields for their ships when the Chimera's open up with their barrages, much the same as when the Sylphide's open up with theirs in Danger Zone and Logan's in Star Dust. They have to have been using some kind of warheads that would have put a serious dent in that ship...otherwise The Masters wouldn't have turned on their shields.

[Arnie100]

Would the AGAC be capable of carrying reflex missiles?

[taalismn]

Chimera for plastering fighter formations and small capital ships, AGACs for close-in hairball dogfighting?

Yes, the Chimera is literally a flying missile battery. Its interesting, but in Prelude to Battle, The Masters deploy the shields for their ships when the Chimera's open up with their barrages, much the same as when the Sylphide's open up with theirs in Danger Zone and Logan's in Star Dust. They have to have been using some kind of warheads that would have put a serious dent in that ship...otherwise The Masters wouldn't have turned on their shields.

The Masters may not have known what the Terran missiles were packing(no neutron scanning for nukes maybe?), so they took an energy-expensive precautionary measure. Chimaera missiles are the right size for an old Genie AAM nuke, no?

[glitterboy2098]

Would the AGAC be capable of carrying reflex missiles?

well the hard points could carry one fighter LRM each in the RPG, so i'd say they could could carry the reflex missiles the VF-1's used against the zentreadi. not sure what the stats would be on that one though.. certainly would need to do more damage than the official LRM table version. (maybe higher warhead yield at the expense of range? Rick does seem to get awfully close to that zent cruiser he slags.. )

[Colonel Wolfe]

Would the AGAC be capable of carrying reflex missiles?

well the hard points could carry one fighter LRM each in the RPG, so i'd say they could could carry the reflex missiles the VF-1's used against the zentreadi. not sure what the stats would be on that one though.. certainly would need to do more damage than the official LRM table version. (maybe higher warhead yield at the expense of range? Rick does seem to get awfully close to that zent cruiser he slags.. )

In force of arms, their attack plan kind placed them close enough to do that stupid punch-through maneuver... so I wouldn't stake any technical details about the missiles on the poor piloting of Hunter and his ability to get fragged over and over...
I think again, the RPG vastly over-states the power of the Zentradi ships giving them 100'sx the armor they display in the show. a volley of 6LRM's should be able to frag a cruiser using the current tables.

[Zer0 Kay]

Pods that replace both pistol mounts on the arms and provide ECM/ECCM and directed EMP in battloid mode, often combined with the AWACS add-on and a EM detector that replaces the laser.

CADS (I don't recap if the saber cyclone was pre or post SDF-3 Launch. If it was pre, why wouldn't ASC use it somewhere? So. Rotor blades replaced with blades with Var. HF fields. Making the blades indestructible, a somewhat effective shield when attacked from above, and they can be detached and used as swords by the AGACS powered through the same port the pistols use.

[drewkitty ~..~]

yeah, they made it in alongside the YF-4 as a wave-2 unit.

http://www.crittohit.com/images/resize/ ... kyries.jpg

snip...

So that is what the Orgus easter egg is now called.....hummm

[ShadowLogan]

Would the AGAC be capable of carrying reflex missiles?

I would say theoretically yes on a couple of fronts:
-w/n RPG's megaversal rules you can mount warheads from the next class missile on a step down class missile (ex Medium Range Warhead on Short Range Missile), though you will see a range reduction. The Reflex Warheads are an option for LRMs, which means in 1E you could mount 16 LRM warheads, in 2E it is a bit less clear how many of a given type can actually be mounted (they only list the mass, but that doesn't always equate to X=# of Y-type), but is also inconsistent w/animation (and old RT.com infopedia)
-the AGAC might have the ability on paper, but it might not be cleared to use it

Pods that replace both pistol mounts on the arms and provide ECM/ECCM and directed EMP in battloid mode, often combined with the AWACS add-on and a EM detector that replaces the laser.

CADS (I don't recap if the saber cyclone was pre or post SDF-3 Launch. If it was pre, why wouldn't ASC use it somewhere? So. Rotor blades replaced with blades with Var. HF fields. Making the blades indestructible, a somewhat effective shield when attacked from above, and they can be detached and used as swords by the AGACS powered through the same port the pistols use.

Doesn't the AGAC (and other VFs) already have what amounts to an EM detector? Not sure what that would provide.

CADS, the ASC does have them on several of their PA, but not the larger mecha preferring to use something called a "punching spike" in 2E (1E had the Gladius prototype). As for turning the rotor blades into vibro-sword... "rule of cool".

[Zer0 Kay]

Would the AGAC be capable of carrying reflex missiles?

I would say theoretically yes on a couple of fronts:
-w/n RPG's megaversal rules you can mount warheads from the next class missile on a step down class missile (ex Medium Range Warhead on Short Range Missile), though you will see a range reduction. The Reflex Warheads are an option for LRMs, which means in 1E you could mount 16 LRM warheads, in 2E it is a bit less clear how many of a given type can actually be mounted (they only list the mass, but that doesn't always equate to X=# of Y-type), but is also inconsistent w/animation (and old RT.com infopedia)
-the AGAC might have the ability on paper, but it might not be cleared to use it

Pods that replace both pistol mounts on the arms and provide ECM/ECCM and directed EMP in battloid mode, often combined with the AWACS add-on and a EM detector that replaces the laser.

CADS (I don't recap if the saber cyclone was pre or post SDF-3 Launch. If it was pre, why wouldn't ASC use it somewhere? So. Rotor blades replaced with blades with Var. HF fields. Making the blades indestructible, a somewhat effective shield when attacked from above, and they can be detached and used as swords by the AGACS powered through the same port the pistols use.

Doesn't the AGAC (and other VFs) already have what amounts to an EM detector? Not sure what that would provide.

CADS, the ASC does have them on several of their PA, but not the larger mecha preferring to use something called a "punching spike" in 2E (1E had the Gladius prototype). As for turning the rotor blades into vibro-sword... "rule of cool".

I guess... If your talking about IR and visible EM wavelengths. I'm talking recon, SIGINT and ELINT setup so that it can collect EM spectrum readings, radar, heck, since they're probably able to go underwater, though it looks like they took most of that silliness out, add sonar. In comparison saying they already have EM should be like saying an F-15C already has radar compared to an E-3.

[glitterboy2098]

Honestly the Ajax And the alpha should both have an EW/wild weasel variant, along the same lines as the F/A-18G 'growler' super hornet

[ShadowLogan]

in general, I should be adding some more material to the 3 ASC VT fan-fiction materials I've been doing lately w/n a week or so I would estimate.

I guess... If your talking about IR and visible EM wavelengths. I'm talking recon, SIGINT and ELINT setup so that it can collect EM spectrum readings, radar, heck, since they're probably able to go underwater, though it looks like they took most of that silliness out, add sonar. In comparison saying they already have EM should be like saying an F-15C already has radar compared to an E-3.

I just noticed that I did not qualify the AWACs radar system with a specific example to base it off of. I would consider the Recon/SIGNINT/ELINT hardware to be part of the AWACs package though.

Honestly the Ajax And the alpha should both have an EW/wild weasel variant, along the same lines as the F/A-18G 'growler' super hornet

All the Veritechs though should also have command versions, not just the Alpha, VF-1,and VHT-1.

[Zer0 Kay]

An AWACS radar system is a small part of SIGINT/ELINT the dish only monitors a narrow band that its transmitter sends out.

The EM I'm talking is more like the RIVET JOINT combined with all its variants, plus newer stuff like systems designed to detect massive gauss fields emitted by coilguns or the particle accelerator of a PBW or EM fields emitted by railguns. Record recon data all along the em spectrum (x-rays, UV, IR, visible light, radio signals, to include those with video data, and radiation) It should actually be a system that is modified into the never seen trainer version of the AJACS with seating like either the Hind or Apache completely converted into a recon unit.

[Jefffar]

Honestly the Ajax And the alpha should both have an EW/wild weasel variant, along the same lines as the F/A-18G 'growler' super hornet

A 2 seater version also should be there, plus the versions of the Alpha A through H.

[glitterboy2098]

Honestly the Ajax And the alpha should both have an EW/wild weasel variant, along the same lines as the F/A-18G 'growler' super hornet

A 2 seater version also should be there, plus the versions of the Alpha A through H.

well, i just figure those jammer pods carried by the VEF-1 could probably have been shrunk down a bit by the 2020's, and you could fit two on the alpha's wings (built into new wingtips, or perhaps just built into a bulge in the outer part of the wing itself), and two more on the alpha's forearms.. either between the SRM launchers or at the worst, replacing the forearm ones (making the MM-60 into an MM-40)
this would let an EW-alpha jam up to 4 enemies at a time, while still leaving it enough firepower to contribute to a battle.
a 2 seater would also make sense for an EW version.. just assume a lengthened nose to cram in a rear seat. maybe sacrificing the nose lasers to fit in the extra avionics to make the rear seat a sensor/EW station, for the EWO to make full use of the gear.

unlike the VEF-1 i see no reason why you'd need a big AWACS dish.. honestly that would be more of a Beta thing.

the Ajax ought to be able to carry much the same EW gear as the above alpha concept. whether the jammer pods would be internal, or like the VEF-1, mounted as hardpoint systems, can be debated. perhaps a mix of both.. two pods at the wingtips then the ability to mount more on the hardpoints.
certainly, i see no reason why the standard Ajax couldn't mount surplus VEF-1 jammer pods already in the RPG. without a backseater to run them such an improvised EW-Ajax might be more vulnerable to intercept, but if it has a good escort it shouldn't fair too badly.

[Arnie100]

Honestly the Ajax And the alpha should both have an EW/wild weasel variant, along the same lines as the F/A-18G 'growler' super hornet

A 2 seater version also should be there, plus the versions of the Alpha A through H.

well, i just figure those jammer pods carried by the VEF-1 could probably have been shrunk down a bit by the 2020's, and you could fit two on the alpha's wings (built into new wingtips, or perhaps just built into a bulge in the outer part of the wing itself), and two more on the alpha's forearms.. either between the SRM launchers or at the worst, replacing the forearm ones (making the MM-60 into an MM-40)
this would let an EW-alpha jam up to 4 enemies at a time, while still leaving it enough firepower to contribute to a battle.
a 2 seater would also make sense for an EW version.. just assume a lengthened nose to cram in a rear seat. maybe sacrificing the nose lasers to fit in the extra avionics to make the rear seat a sensor/EW station, for the EWO to make full use of the gear.

unlike the VEF-1 i see no reason why you'd need a big AWACS dish.. honestly that would be more of a Beta thing.

the Ajax ought to be able to carry much the same EW gear as the above alpha concept. whether the jammer pods would be internal, or like the VEF-1, mounted as hardpoint systems, can be debated. perhaps a mix of both.. two pods at the wingtips then the ability to mount more on the hardpoints.
certainly, i see no reason why the standard Ajax couldn't mount surplus VEF-1 jammer pods already in the RPG. without a backseater to run them such an improvised EW-Ajax might be more vulnerable to intercept, but if it has a good escort it shouldn't fair too badly.

What about something like the pod on the F4U Cosair night fighters? http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/571/pics/3_105.jpg

[Zer0 Kay]

Honestly the Ajax And the alpha should both have an EW/wild weasel variant, along the same lines as the F/A-18G 'growler' super hornet

A 2 seater version also should be there, plus the versions of the Alpha A through H.

well, i just figure those jammer pods carried by the VEF-1 could probably have been shrunk down a bit by the 2020's, and you could fit two on the alpha's wings (built into new wingtips, or perhaps just built into a bulge in the outer part of the wing itself), and two more on the alpha's forearms.. either between the SRM launchers or at the worst, replacing the forearm ones (making the MM-60 into an MM-40)
this would let an EW-alpha jam up to 4 enemies at a time, while still leaving it enough firepower to contribute to a battle.
a 2 seater would also make sense for an EW version.. just assume a lengthened nose to cram in a rear seat. maybe sacrificing the nose lasers to fit in the extra avionics to make the rear seat a sensor/EW station, for the EWO to make full use of the gear.

unlike the VEF-1 i see no reason why you'd need a big AWACS dish.. honestly that would be more of a Beta thing.

the Ajax ought to be able to carry much the same EW gear as the above alpha concept. whether the jammer pods would be internal, or like the VEF-1, mounted as hardpoint systems, can be debated. perhaps a mix of both.. two pods at the wingtips then the ability to mount more on the hardpoints.
certainly, i see no reason why the standard Ajax couldn't mount surplus VEF-1 jammer pods already in the RPG. without a backseater to run them such an improvised EW-Ajax might be more vulnerable to intercept, but if it has a good escort it shouldn't fair too badly.

What about something like the pod on the F4U Cosair night fighters? http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/571/pics/3_105.jpg

Well if we're going for a built in unit then the one on the EF-111 Raven is better, but the F-15E, Prowler and Growler units are better in order listed (least to best, oldest to newest modification).

[Zer0 Kay]

Honestly the Ajax And the alpha should both have an EW/wild weasel variant, along the same lines as the F/A-18G 'growler' super hornet

A 2 seater version also should be there, plus the versions of the Alpha A through H.

well, i just figure those jammer pods carried by the VEF-1 could probably have been shrunk down a bit by the 2020's, and you could fit two on the alpha's wings (built into new wingtips, or perhaps just built into a bulge in the outer part of the wing itself), and two more on the alpha's forearms.. either between the SRM launchers or at the worst, replacing the forearm ones (making the MM-60 into an MM-40)
this would let an EW-alpha jam up to 4 enemies at a time, while still leaving it enough firepower to contribute to a battle.
a 2 seater would also make sense for an EW version.. just assume a lengthened nose to cram in a rear seat. maybe sacrificing the nose lasers to fit in the extra avionics to make the rear seat a sensor/EW station, for the EWO to make full use of the gear.

unlike the VEF-1 i see no reason why you'd need a big AWACS dish.. honestly that would be more of a Beta thing.

the Ajax ought to be able to carry much the same EW gear as the above alpha concept. whether the jammer pods would be internal, or like the VEF-1, mounted as hardpoint systems, can be debated. perhaps a mix of both.. two pods at the wingtips then the ability to mount more on the hardpoints.
certainly, i see no reason why the standard Ajax couldn't mount surplus VEF-1 jammer pods already in the RPG. without a backseater to run them such an improvised EW-Ajax might be more vulnerable to intercept, but if it has a good escort it shouldn't fair too badly.

It must be written in the rules that a pod can only jam one unit. That IRL is foolish. There are IIRC from my ground radar tech days (2E071, recently changed to some other number) There are two types of jamming Broadband and Narrowband. Broadband allows for jamming of multiple frequencies but due to lower power capacities can be burned-through by stronger radars. Narrow and hammers allow for a high power output but on few frequencies or only a single frequency. Either type are omnidirectional. There are also ways of bypassing jamming. The ASR uses two frequencies to avoid narrow and jamming. The TPS-75 "Tipsy" uses phased encoding to be able to determine its signal from a jamming signal. Remember that all jamming us is constantly feeding a radar a signal so it can't receive its own signal or rather it still does, it just can't tell. No matter what when jamming occurs it isn't a simple loss of signal and everything disappears. It fills the airspace with the signal "jamming" the airwaves, it shows up on the ASR lighting up the whole screen and as a wedge on the TSP-75.

Wide and jamming only needs one pod. Stronger narrow and jamming would require multiple pods depending on how many frequencies you want to jam and how many each pod can cover.

[drewkitty ~..~]

All of these are all much like the augmentations pods I wrote up for the Conbat and the alt "cargo-pods" for the Horizon-T shortly after the publication of the Shadow Chronicles (RT 2nd ed MB) book.

Basic Conbat Aug. Packs
VWC-300S-A
This is the basic Short range Missile carrier pod with forward targeting radar.
VWC-300M-A
This is the basic Medium range Missile carrier pod with forward targeting radar.
VWC-300S-AS
This is the basic Short range Missile carrier pod with forward targeting radar and a SRAM system.
VWC-300M-AS
This is the basic Medium range Missile carrier pod with forward targeting radar and a SRAM system.
VWC-300I-A
This is the basic Mini-Missile carrier pod with 180-360 targeting radar (bottom hemisphere) with a 100 mile range.
VWC-300AR Sensor pod
This pod give the Conbat a normal space sensor range rivaling that of a command carrier.
VWC-340AR multi-pack
This Weapons pack contains one HLC-80 laser cannon , short range missiles, mini-missiles, and rear looking targeting radar.

Space Superiority Aug. Packs
VWC-120 Auto-cannon pods SSP
Mounts two Auto-cannon similar to the Valkiriee VF's with extended payload.
VWC-250 Plasma Cannon SSP
Mounts two plasma cannons equal to the EU-13, the pod ties into the Conbat's reactor for unlimited payload.
VWC-317 Laser SSP
Mounts two Laser cannons similar to the HLC-90, the pod ties into the Conbat's reactor for unlimited payload.

Horizon-T Accessory Pods
ASMLP-002 Anti-Ship Mine Pod (LRM)

PDP--003 Point Defense Pod (& Mine sweeper)
PDP--103b Point Defense Pod (uses KK Missiles & advanced sensors)

SBP--004 Strategic Bombardment Pod (LRM)
TBP-008 Tactical Bombardment Pod (MRM)

MMBP-120 Mobile Maintenance Pod
These are able to set up a 200' diameter dome over a repair site to provide a Shirt-sleeves environment or can be used as a temporary patch to let damaged ships safely fold with semi-crippling battle damage.
PCP- 142 Particle Cannon Pod

PP-122 & PP-124 Power Pods
The 122 is a protoculture reactor and the 124 is a fusion reactor.
FB-330 "WitFit" Pod
Strategic Demolition using a "Fold Bomb".

[Arnie100]

More things I can use to blow up stuff! Woohoo!

[taalismn]

"Fold Bomb'?!

Well, oh $#!+....

[Zer0 Kay]

All of these are all much like the augmentations pods I wrote up for the Conbat and the alt "cargo-pods" for the Horizon-T shortly after the publication of the Shadow Chronicles (RT 2nd ed MB) book.

Basic Conbat Aug. Packs
VWC-300S-A
This is the basic Short range Missile carrier pod with forward targeting radar.
VWC-300M-A
This is the basic Medium range Missile carrier pod with forward targeting radar.
VWC-300S-AS
This is the basic Short range Missile carrier pod with forward targeting radar and a SRAM system.
VWC-300M-AS
This is the basic Medium range Missile carrier pod with forward targeting radar and a SRAM system.
VWC-300I-A
This is the basic Mini-Missile carrier pod with 180-360 targeting radar (bottom hemisphere) with a 100 mile range.
VWC-300AR Sensor pod
This pod give the Conbat a normal space sensor range rivaling that of a command carrier.
VWC-340AR multi-pack
This Weapons pack contains one HLC-80 laser cannon , short range missiles, mini-missiles, and rear looking targeting radar.

Space Superiority Aug. Packs
VWC-120 Auto-cannon pods SSP
Mounts two Auto-cannon similar to the Valkiriee VF's with extended payload.
VWC-250 Plasma Cannon SSP
Mounts two plasma cannons equal to the EU-13, the pod ties into the Conbat's reactor for unlimited payload.
VWC-317 Laser SSP
Mounts two Laser cannons similar to the HLC-90, the pod ties into the Conbat's reactor for unlimited payload.

Horizon-T Accessory Pods
ASMLP-002 Anti-Ship Mine Pod (LRM)

PDP--003 Point Defense Pod (& Mine sweeper)
PDP--103b Point Defense Pod (uses KK Missiles & advanced sensors)

SBP--004 Strategic Bombardment Pod (LRM)
TBP-008 Tactical Bombardment Pod (MRM)

MMBP-120 Mobile Maintenance Pod
These are able to set up a 200' diameter dome over a repair site to provide a Shirt-sleeves environment or can be used as a temporary patch to let damaged ships safely fold with semi-crippling battle damage.
PCP- 142 Particle Cannon Pod

PP-122 & PP-124 Power Pods
The 122 is a protoculture reactor and the 124 is a fusion reactor.
FB-330 "WitFit" Pod
Strategic Demolition using a "Fold Bomb".

Nice, in the game I was in we developed a new Horizon-TAC.

It removed the Cockpit and replaced it with a Legios on the end of a neck put a turret mount where the Legios used to go and one on the top direct opposite to it. Each mounted a space modified VHT. The rest essentially remained the same. The pods we had for them are:

Weapon Systems

Gunship Pod
Cruise Missile Pod (32 missiles)
MOAB (all bomb)
Reflex Cannon Pod (splits open)

Transport
VHT
Alpha
Cargo/Battloid
Troop
Fast Deployable Base Modules (build a base with 13 Horizon-TAC drops)
Control Tower
Radar Tower
CCC
Control Point
Force Field/Shield Generator
Shadow/Cloaking Generator
Wall
Ordnance Pods, Base deployable weapon systems (Missile and CIWS pods can be used while mounted)
Missile (verticals launch tubes [pointed down when on Horizon, auto flip when deployed]) 330 LRM, 480 MRM, 640 MRM (no mini missile set up, range too short)
Synchro Cannon
CIWS (mini-missiles, gating railguns, point defense lasers)

The fold bombs we used were on an Invid/Human missile cruiser that was able to phase. The bombs also phased so they would go to the center of mass of the ship and then fold out.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Along with the variant pods I wrote up a Horizon-t called a Warthog (Multi-Role Work Craft-13 "WartHog"). The basics mod idea is that it would be space-based (non-transatmospheric) that had four mounting points (two upper & two lower) on it's wings. While it retains the Legios Docking port it is rarely assigned one. This is due to the nature of the roles it fills it is rarely seen in a battle fleet. They are seen mostly working in a shipyard as tugs or a the outer sentry patrols (patrolling Warthogs would be armed with weapon pods.)

[Arnie100]

Fold bomb...YIKES

[SRoss]

Fast Deployable Base Modules (build a base with 13 Horizon-TAC drops)

I remember a gaming magazine, I forget which one.... had a bar that folded up to form a couple of cargo pods for the Horizon.

[Zer0 Kay]

Fast Deployable Base Modules (build a base with 13 Horizon-TAC drops)

I remember a gaming magazine, I forget which one.... had a bar that folded up to form a couple of cargo pods for the Horizon.

Hmm maybe Earth reclamation or colonization forces should have pods to set up a whole town and mining, oil rig, etc. pods.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Fast Deployable Base Modules (build a base with 13 Horizon-TAC drops)

I remember a gaming magazine, I forget which one.... had a bar that folded up to form a couple of cargo pods for the Horizon.

Hmm maybe Earth reclamation or colonization forces should have pods to set up a whole town and mining, oil rig, etc. pods.

Forget the coal mining and oil drilling for power...

PP-122 & PP-124 Power Pods
The 122 is a protoculture reactor and the 124 is a fusion reactor.

The first thing they'd need is power.

drillin for oil to make the plastics...yah do that.
-------------------
I do like the fact that you thought about providing defenses for the base in the FF generators. The way Mars Div. did it, they must of planed on having time to 'dig-in' before they were attacked. Like that worked out reeeaaaalll well.
--------------------
the saloon was one of the 1st buildings to be built in a new town in the old west....and was used as the church building till a separate one was built.....So the idea of a mobile, already stocked Base Bar does follow some logic.

[taalismn]

Colonies would use whatever was available on planet to provide local resource independence...so, crude oil = fuel, industrial petrochemicals, plastic feedstocks....there were also experiments back in the '60s and '70s in growing edible algae and microbes on oil byproducts and waste tailings...all that means less offworld support needed for the colony/outpost, less material needed to be shipped across interstellar distances.

[Zer0 Kay]

Wow, we've realm derailed this thread. I'm going to start a generic modular thread.

[ShadowLogan]

UDPATE:
Optional IWS-40 Replacement
-A repackaged Forearm Spike from the CBL-8. Intended to aid in close quarters combat.

Leg Shin Add-On Station: On the "shin" of the lower leg the AGAC can mount another package. This package contains another AGAC engine (this practically doubles the available thrust, so double the speed), though only contains enough fuel for 10minutes at maximum thrust and can only activate in vehicle mode(s). The module also sports twin rows of MM-60 type 190mm SRM launchers styled after the Alpha's forearms, and can fire in any mode. Additionally two forearm spike launchers from the SRB-9 non-transformable battloid are mounted in each pod. They where conceived before the Masters war started as a way for the AGAC to snare potential targets and to allow the pilot to go EVA when the AGAC was not ideal for inspection. The spike launchers can work in any mode, and in Jet/helicopter they fire forward, and in Battloid they appear to shoot straight up parallel to the lower leg (this requires the Battloid to aim the leg). The Spikes are also useful in close quarters combat as a "knee attack".

GBP-10S AGAC Armored Battloid System
Like the VF-1 (and VF-8 Logan) before it the VFH-10 AGAC was slated for a version of the GBP system even before the system entered service. This program was originally slated to have a later service date, but the arrival of the Masters in early 2029 changed all that with the system being rushed through the final phase of development and service entry and only managed to be produced in small numbers (the UEEF favored using the Alpha over the GBP system so if you have the UEEF using the AGAC...).

Like the GBP-1S, the GBP-10S was designed to to generate a large missile barrage, possibly the one of the most powerful (SRM) missile platform developed by humans to date for a mecha (102 Short Range Missiles, PLUS wing hardpoints). The system limited the AGAC to battloid mode, and was most at home in space or underwater. The Alpha's MM-60 hardware formed the core of the system (to keep costs down), which was further augmented by other available UEDF systems. The GBP-10S mounted hardware in the following way:
-Lower Legs. Core Alpha MM-60 setup on the legs, plus a upper arm launcher on the "shin".
-Chest Peice: 2 Alpha MM-60 upper arm launchers packaged into the breast piece
-Wing Stub: Mounted over-wing style, are a single upper arm station from the MM-60 is ready to go
-Tube Station: mounted on either upper leg/hip guard are x2 190mm SRM Tubed Launch Stations and a x1 190mm SRM Tubed Launch Station on the lower forearm (a dual over/under setup is available, though rarely used given the shear volume of missiles carried). The tubes act to help protect the missile
-Blade Launcher: Mounted to each blade is a launcher what amounts to a the Blade Replacement Launcher outlined above, only instead of a replacement this mounts to the blade.
-Mounted on the back is a OMS-2-class maneuver package to assist the Battloid's movement (plans exist though for adapting some of the "hub" FAST-Pack add-on options)
-additional expansion options were also considered and may exist in prototype form for testing (ex mounted as out riders to existing locations)

VFH-10U AGAC (for the UEEF)
UEG politicians in an effort to create some cross organization commonality pushed for the UEEF to be included in the TC/TASC project to develop the AGAC. While the UEEF could never get behind a pure helicopter program to support its forces, as the vehicle was considered to specialized even with the veritech systems, it did find the TASC's version of the "tweaked" XV/H-1 design acceptable enough for them to consider what roles it might fill within their force structure. Initially the UEEF was to use a -10U standard, which basically was just like the -10A/B, the main difference was that the -10U radar could switch modes allowing it to function as the A or B model in terms of performance, but not both simultaneously. The ASC had no use for such a radar on their branch specific versions, but the UEEF did in order to allow the AGACs it did have to be as versatile as possible.

Initial VFH-10Us only difference to the A/B model was its radar. But With the fall of Earth to the Invid, and some experience gained Block changes where made to the VFH-10U with the initial version being considered Block 10. The changes are cumulative, over mecha's service life with the UEEF (specific dates I leave to individual GMs).

Block 20: UEEF avionics standards where implemented (performance wise no change is necessary in 2E, the only difference is the part itself might not be the same) with the exception of the radar. The AGAC was also converted over to PC fuel (per Alpha), though an effort was made to standardize the engines with the Alpha fighter, it was dropped when the AGAC's native engines provided better performance (I am assuming the AGAC's native T/W ratio is similar to the Alpha from 2 main engines), though they did modify the legs to allow them to engage in jet mode to increase thrust (not quite doubling it due to the tail engines) and speed by 50% (for simplicity).

Block 30: Early on the UEEF looked at adapting the MM-60 type launchers to the AGAC in conformal packages, but was found to require a major redesign. This did not stop the UEEF from looking for ways to augment the AGAC with extra missile capacity. They basically took the upper arm package from the Alpha's MM-60 and mounted it to the frontal face of the lower leg in Battloid mode, and can be used in Fighter/Helicopter mode without issue as long as an "over-wing" option was not in use. This feature effectively occupied one of the AGAC's few points for FAST PACKs.

Block 40: UEDF and UEEF tactical doctrines where built around different principles, and the UEEF was finding the AGAC's weapon's a bit deficient for its needs. The LLW-20 was slated for replacement, but it never happened as they could not find a suitable weapon than had been tried before. Initially the UEEF was planning on replacing the IWS-40 with surplus EU-20s, but they eventually traded it in for a modified version of the HPC-40 (it runs directly off the AGAC and not a magazine) from the Bioroid Interceptor program when it became available for increased range (~166%) for nearly no loss in damage potential (~3%).

Block 50: An AGAC equipped with Shadow Technology. It also introduced the HRG-70 as an IWS-40 replacement. (NOTE: Only include the Shadow Technology if you have the AGAC in service during this period should it be considered, and even then it might be relegated to a "paper study" given ground forces aren't known to use the technology heavily, so a "stealthy" platform operating w/non-stleathy platforms negates the need for the "stealth").

[Arnie100]

Nicely done again.

[taalismn]

Indeed; the Southern Cross may yet emerge as a force to be reckoned with thanks to the imagination of its engineers and the versatility of its mecha(let's ignore for the time being the grim reader foreknowledge of the Second Robotech War and the Invid Invasion).