Warlocks Siphoning PPE from Elemental creatures

[Riftdevil]

Maybe this has been addressed before, if so please give me a link. I have a scenario for you. A Warlock casts Phantom, then siphons the Phantom's PPE, then casts more Phantoms and the process continues. This would allow a 5th level Air Warlock to create an army of Phantoms to control. Not to mention they never have to worry about their PPE supply ever again.

Anyone have this issue and what have you done about it? Thanks!

Phantom
Range: Immediate area.
Duration: 15 minutes per level of the warlock.
Saving Throw: None.
P.P.E: Thirty
This spell enables the warlock to summon and command an air elemental essence fragment. This invisible assistant can be sent to scout ahead, spy, hunt, defend, attack, carry items, locate secret compartments/doors (89%), etc. There is no limit to the distance it can travel form the warlock.
Phantom
Natural A.R. 10
Hit Points: 60; S.D.C.: 30
Attribute Equivalents: I.Q. 10, M.A. 3, M.E. 10, P.S. 22, P.P. 19, and flying speed of 45mph (72km)
Natural Abilities: Its natural state is one of being invisible, eight feet (2.4m) tall, nightvision 200ft (61meters), can see the invisible, doesn't fatigue, is impervious to cold, poison and disease, and the phantom can carry up to 1000 pounds and still moves at its maximum speed! Obeys the warlock only.
Bonuses: +2 on initiative, +4 to strike and pary, +7 to dodge. Three Attacks/actions per melee round and inflicts 2d6 damage from punch or 4d6 from a power punch (counts as two attacks).
Can cast all level 1-4 air elemental magic; 100 P.P.E. It will remain in this world until the spells duration elapses or it is sent back by the warlock, whichever comes first.

[Mack]

Yep, pretty much.

One caveat that I apply is that the process falls under the Freely Donated PPE rule and is only 70% efficient. So the Warlock spends 30, the Phantom donates 100 but another 30 is lost in the transfer, leaving the warlock with a net gain of 40.

Plus there's a few other tricks that allow a Warlock to create a sizable force in just minutes.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Yep, pretty much.

One caveat that I apply is that the process falls under the Freely Donated PPE rule and is only 70% efficient. So the Warlock spends 30, the Phantom donates 100 but another 30 is lost in the transfer, leaving the warlock with a net gain of 40.

Plus there's a few other tricks that allow a Warlock to create a sizable force in just minutes.

And that the warlock would have to be a Air Warlock to get the air el. splinter essence to 'freely donated' PPE.

[Mack]

And that the warlock would have to be a Air Warlock to get the air el. splinter essence to 'freely donated' PPE.

Not sure I agree with that. But regardless, both Earth and Water have similar spells available. (For some reason the Fire equivalent doesn't have PPE or casting abilities... always wondered if that was an oversight or deliberate.)

[flatline]

Yep, pretty much.

One caveat that I apply is that the process falls under the Freely Donated PPE rule and is only 70% efficient. So the Warlock spends 30, the Phantom donates 100 but another 30 is lost in the transfer, leaving the warlock with a net gain of 40.

Plus there's a few other tricks that allow a Warlock to create a sizable force in just minutes.

I'm pretty sure that Mysteries of Magic says that practitioners of magic can donate their entire PPE pool if they decide to. The Phantom can cast spells, so I would think it counts as a practitioner of magic.

I don't have access to my books right now, but perhaps someone else can find it (or refute my memory of it).

[flatline]

Air and Earth can both do this at 5th level. Water can't do it until either 6th or 7th (don't recall what level the little ice monster is). As far as I know, Fire can't do it since the essences it can summon don't seem to have a PPE stat for some reason.

Air is particularly useful since you can summon a Phantom, replenish your PPE, and then have it summon Phantom Footmen with it's remaining PPE. It's a quick way to generate lots of troops for situations where that's useful.

[Mack]

Yea, even with the inefficient PPE transfer an Air Warlock can generate a lot of bodies quickly.

-- Start with 100 PPE.
-- Summon 3 Phantoms for -90 PPE (leaves the Warlock with 10).
-- Have 1 Phantom donate his PPE back. The Warlock gets either 70 or 100 depending on the transfer rule.
-- The Warlock now has either 80 or 110 PPE (or 100 if that was his max), two fully powered Phantoms, and one depleted Phantom.
-- Have the 2 Phantoms summon 5 Phantom Footmen each.
-- Now there's the Warlock, 3 Phantoms (no PPE), and 10 Phantom Footmen and the process can be repeated.

And should the Warlock be so fortunate as to summon lessor or major Elemental, then it gets really ridiculous fast.

[drewkitty ~..~]

And that the warlock would have to be a Air Warlock to get the air el. splinter essence to 'freely donated' PPE.

Not sure I agree with that. But regardless, both Earth and Water have similar spells available. (For some reason the Fire equivalent doesn't have PPE or casting abilities... always wondered if that was an oversight or deliberate.)

It was "Question as asked" sort of thing. The summoning <something> to get their PPE to summon more of <something>, cycle repeat, add infinity, is an old idea here at the boards. So there is really nothing to argue about if the numbers work out.

[Library Ogre]

And that the warlock would have to be a Air Warlock to get the air el. splinter essence to 'freely donated' PPE.

They would need to be an Air Warlock to summon the Phantom, but I don't agree that only an air warlock would be able to get the PPE from an air elemental fragment... they're all brothers, after all.

[eliakon]

The question of who can get an elemental to freely donate PPE comes under "Talk to your GM".
Especially since Elementals are not batteries, they are NPCs. They like you, that doesn't mean that they are going to necessarily give you their PPE just because you ask for it. Most especially if you are being greedy and summoning lots of other brothers here just to plunder them of their power too. Never mind that as a GM I would start asking some really hard questions about of if the character is really being played in character (aren't warlocks supposed to respect the elementals back, not view them as walking power cells to be exploited at whim)....
Remember just because something is mechanically possible doesn't mean that it is right, nor that it is plausible, or even that it can actually happen. Just that the rules don't say that mechanically it can't happen.

[Mack]

Totally agree.

[flatline]

The question of who can get an elemental to freely donate PPE comes under "Talk to your GM".
Especially since Elementals are not batteries, they are NPCs. They like you, that doesn't mean that they are going to necessarily give you their PPE just because you ask for it. Most especially if you are being greedy and summoning lots of other brothers here just to plunder them of their power too. Never mind that as a GM I would start asking some really hard questions about of if the character is really being played in character (aren't warlocks supposed to respect the elementals back, not view them as walking power cells to be exploited at whim)....
Remember just because something is mechanically possible doesn't mean that it is right, nor that it is plausible, or even that it can actually happen. Just that the rules don't say that mechanically it can't happen.

Do the elemental fragments summoned by these 5th level spells count as real elementals?

The implication from the spells is that they follow the warlock's commands and are relatively expendable.

[eliakon]

The question of who can get an elemental to freely donate PPE comes under "Talk to your GM".
Especially since Elementals are not batteries, they are NPCs. They like you, that doesn't mean that they are going to necessarily give you their PPE just because you ask for it. Most especially if you are being greedy and summoning lots of other brothers here just to plunder them of their power too. Never mind that as a GM I would start asking some really hard questions about of if the character is really being played in character (aren't warlocks supposed to respect the elementals back, not view them as walking power cells to be exploited at whim)....
Remember just because something is mechanically possible doesn't mean that it is right, nor that it is plausible, or even that it can actually happen. Just that the rules don't say that mechanically it can't happen.

Do the elemental fragments summoned by these 5th level spells count as real elementals?

The implication from the spells is that they follow the warlock's commands and are relatively expendable.

I don't see anything to suggest that they will slavishly follow any order, even ones they do not like (thus my comment about the consent on ppe) and 'relatively expendable' when referring to ones brothers is exactly my point about 'not playing in character'

[flatline]

The question of who can get an elemental to freely donate PPE comes under "Talk to your GM".
Especially since Elementals are not batteries, they are NPCs. They like you, that doesn't mean that they are going to necessarily give you their PPE just because you ask for it. Most especially if you are being greedy and summoning lots of other brothers here just to plunder them of their power too. Never mind that as a GM I would start asking some really hard questions about of if the character is really being played in character (aren't warlocks supposed to respect the elementals back, not view them as walking power cells to be exploited at whim)....
Remember just because something is mechanically possible doesn't mean that it is right, nor that it is plausible, or even that it can actually happen. Just that the rules don't say that mechanically it can't happen.

Do the elemental fragments summoned by these 5th level spells count as real elementals?

The implication from the spells is that they follow the warlock's commands and are relatively expendable.

I don't see anything to suggest that they will slavishly follow any order, even ones they do not like (thus my comment about the consent on ppe) and 'relatively expendable' when referring to ones brothers is exactly my point about 'not playing in character'

Sorry, I guess I didn't make myself clear. A warlock treats elementals as brothers. Presumably that includes major and minor elementals since they are called elementals. Do elemental fragments count as elementals? Do they populate the elemental planes like major and minor elementals or are they created by the spell?

[Prysus]

I don't see anything to suggest that they will slavishly follow any order, even ones they do not like (thus my comment about the consent on ppe)

Greetings and Salutations. I'd say evidence is in favor of them following any order. Quotes include ...

This spell enables the warlock to summon and command ...

You can argue that they can command the essence but it doesn't have to listen, but as written there's no indication it won't obey the command (especially since the book is telling you that you can command it, that should have meaning instead of a useless throw away line since the summon can ignore any command from anyone).

Once summoned, the warlock is able to request the elemental to aid him in battle or any activity for an unlimited length of time. The elemental will generally obey only the warlock and will follow any command without question, including fighting to the death.

Now it does say "generally" which means that, in theory, they can refuse. However, they'll give their lives for their character, I don't see donating some P.P.E. as being an issue in comparison.

As an individual, I've limited it (and not for this reason because my Warlock player never tried this technique, it just kind of happened naturally as part of the game) is that you always summon the same elemental. Now in my games, this happened because the player started naming them. So in this case (a water warlock), the main summon was a Little Ice Monster that the player named. The Water Wisp had a dog-like personality (player sent it off to find some people, it returned with a bone thinking it did a good job, then wanted to play fetch). So, if you try to summon a Little Ice Monster, take it's P.P.E., release it, then summon again ... the player would've gotten the same essence fragment, which means it has no P.P.E. (you just stole it, after all). When it got injured in battle, the player would release it and then not summon it again for a while to make sure it had time to heal.

and 'relatively expendable' when referring to ones brothers is exactly my point about 'not playing in character'

Well, in theory, it could be in character if the character is the type that does anything for an edge with no conscious at all (so, you know, a common type of player). With that said, viewing them as "relatively expandable" is definitely not the norm for Warlocks.

Only a warlock who is the foulest of the foul will intentionally allow an elemental brother he has summoned to die. Even the most minor of elementals, like the phantom, should not be allowed to die.

In the end, what's being described should be possible, but the fact that people view their brothers as a disposable resource to be used and discarded says more about the person than the ability to do it. Farewell and safe journeys.

[Mack]

Given that a Phantom has an IQ of 10, that quite firmly puts it into the "sentient" column and not something that Warlock would abuse or send to it's destruction without cause.

[Library Ogre]

Given that a Phantom has an IQ of 10, that quite firmly puts it into the "sentient" column and not something that Warlock would abuse or send to it's destruction without cause.

This is true, but I think there's also a question of utility, here.

Let's say the warlock does the multiplicity trick. While being lower on PPE might be less desirable for the fragments, the warlock using these for combat* is going to want a lot of bodies to help... if you have 4 fragments, one of them might get seriously injured. If you have 40, the ones that are injured can cycle out and recover (or return).

For the status of elemental fragments? I like to think of the various elemental planes as being, themselves, quasi-sentient. If you break off a fragment, you're temporarily creating an independent intelligence out of that morass of semi-intelligence. It comes, it learns, it returns, and is slowly reabsorbed into the elemental oversoul. Larger elementals are those who have established their own intelligence, but still take part in that wider consciousness, and the planes themselves are likewise connected. Thus, elementals and warlocks (connected to this elemental universal unconscious self) know when warlocks have abused the truce of brotherhood, and know of others who abuse elementals (summoners and the like).

*Non-combat applications are presumably less dangerous

[Axelmania]

You can argue that they can command the essence but it doesn't have to listen, but as written there's no indication it won't obey the command (especially since the book is telling you that you can command it, that should have meaning instead of a useless throw away line since the summon can ignore any command from anyone).

Even if you don't utterly control something it can still be useful to summon it in the right circumstances. A level 1 summoner can't control anything but sometimes you don't have to, you can just rely on their instincts to serve you. Your enemies might assume you control what you summon and attack it, and it will react in self defense. Or say a bunch of delicious gnomes are coming to stab you and you summon an Ogre and it thinks "yum, Gnome stew" and attacks of its own volition. This means even if you can't win a battle of wills, aren't high enough level to summon, can't get them to agree to any pacts, it can still be beneficial to summon them.

In the case of Phantoms, they're your buddies, so they should be willing to help so long as there's no extreme danger to them. In 2nd Edition which changed them from lesser elementals to essence fragments I think they would be less concerned with their own wellbeing since there's not really any death happening if they're destroyed.

If you're doing something they would approve of (perhaps rescuing an Elemental enslaved by a Shifter) they would probably be more co-operative. Roleplaying some mental affinity interaction with Phantoms for riskier situations would be a fun addition to slow down this exploit.

The problem with page 111 which you cited is it is an import from the first edition when Phantoms were called lessers instead of fragments. I think we should consider it null and void now since they were demoted and less of an individual. KS probably just didn't remember it to realize he should remove it once he changed the spell.

Given that a Phantom has an IQ of 10, that quite firmly puts it into the "sentient" column and not something that Warlock would abuse or send to it's destruction without cause.

Essence fragments from alien intelligences have intelligence but destroying their body doesn't actually do anything permanent, it just sends the fragment back to the Elemental Intelligence, exactly what would have happened when the duration expires. At worst the only consideration should be if the Elemental feels any pain from being hurt/destroyed.

I'm going to assume that Elementals can experience pain and a Phantom body being destroyed gives the Intelligence pain which is why Warlocks would care about preventing that. But pain is temporary and it's not like how it was in 1st Edition when they were lesser elementals which meant you were permanently killing something if they died.

[Prysus]

The problem with page 111 which you cited is it is an import from the first edition when Phantoms were called lessers instead of fragments. I think we should consider it null and void now since they were demoted and less of an individual. KS probably just didn't remember it to realize he should remove it once he changed the spell.

Greetings and Salutations. Do you have a page number from the 1st Edition where they have that some quote? Because I just checked my 1st Edition and the segment about them not letting even a Phantom die isn't in there. That's something (as far as I can find) added into second edition. So he didn't forget to remove it, he decided to write it in the new edition. Unless you can provide a page number, your claim that it's just an import of second edition is nothing more than opinion.

Essence fragments from alien intelligences have intelligence but destroying their body doesn't actually do anything permanent, it just sends the fragment back to the Elemental Intelligence, exactly what would have happened when the duration expires.

Do you have any support for that one, or just more opinion? If I had a Cybernetic arm and detached it so you could borrow it and you let it get destroyed, is that the same as returning it to me?

On the other hand I provide another quote.

The warlock may also be able to summon minor elementals and fragmented essences from an elemental intelligence by means of elemental magic. These are even less powerful beings than a lesser elemental ...

Less powerful "beings" than a lesser elemental. It doesn't call them trash, garbage, meaningless, or anything else, just that they're less powerful "beings." The section also uses the term "minor" elementals side by side with "fragmented essences," though you're dismissing the section as imported from 1st Edition which you're saying didn't have fragmented essences. I'll also note the previous quote said "even the most minor of elementals," it didn't state even a minor elemental. Ergo, this is not stating a specific type of elemental (i.e. "minor elemental" specifically), but even the lowest and least significant type (a.k.a. most minor) of elemental. This contradicts the concept that you set forth that an elemental fragment is too minor to count. Farewell and safe journeys.

[Axelmania]

The phrase about Phantom being the "most minor" in summoning note 1 was introduced in Rifts Conversion Book, I think. Summoning note 2 on the other hand refers to them as essence fragments, as does the spell.

Maybe note 1 was written when the spell still treated them as minor elementals, note 2 was added later after changing the spell from minor to fragment, and KS didn't reread note 1 and notice the difference between it and the new note reflecting the spell change.

I can't replace a cybernetic arm but I think if you destroy the body created by an essence fragment it just rejoins the Elemental Intelligence. I don't think it's like Multiple Selves where you permanently lose your fragment if it dies. If that were the case I could understand Phantoms dying being serious since it could whittle an Elemental Intelligence down until it died.

I believe that a fragment dying causes discomfort for the Intelligence so that's why they wouldn't want to let it happen.

In the second edition when you summon a greater elemental (whether warlock or summoner) isn't that also just a bigger (I think half) fragment of an intelligence, not resulting in any permanent known effects if its body is destroyed?

[Prysus]

The phrase about Phantom being the "most minor" in summoning note 1 was introduced in Rifts Conversion Book, I think. Summoning note 2 on the other hand refers to them as essence fragments, as does the spell.

Maybe note 1 was written when the spell still treated them as minor elementals, note 2 was added later after changing the spell from minor to fragment, and KS didn't reread note 1 and notice the difference between it and the new note reflecting the spell change.

Greetings and Salutations. Because I try to keep an open mind, I checked. I happen to find a Rifts Conversion Book One (original, NOT revised), First Printing (1991) in my collection (the one on my shelf is 5th printing, but I have some overstock that I dug out). Both Note 1 AND Note 2 are included, and Conversion Book One also refers to Phantom as an Elemental Essence Fragment.

I believe that a fragment dying causes discomfort for the Intelligence so that's why they wouldn't want to let it happen.

Think about the fact they use the term "die" though. Not dispersed, or released, or freed, but they tell us it will die. Really your argument (so far) seems to be that they used the wrong word, and nothing dies.

In the second edition when you summon a greater elemental (whether warlock or summoner) isn't that also just a bigger (I think half) fragment of an intelligence, not resulting in any permanent known effects if its body is destroyed?

Maybe in Dragons & Gods or something, I'd have to check another day when I have more time. I don't recall anything like that though. If you can provide a book quote at any point, I'm willing to listen. But so far the books you've mentioned to support your claims don't, and actually contradict your stance. Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[Axelmania]

The term "die" is used kind of loosely though. This is like how a Conjurer's animals "are living creatures" and "good characters would rarely ask them to put their lives on the line".

It's like "yeah, sure, but if this is a 1st level conjurer, this animal will only exist for 1 hour and then disappear forever".

Kind of a subjective morality thing I suppose. The lifespan of a housefly is 14-36 (or 15-30, have heard varying accounts) days and some people still have moral issues about swatting them... but consider how many people are perfectly okay with killing flies and then think about how smaller by comparison the lifespan is of a creature whose existence is capped in hours (Conjurations) or minutes (Phantoms).

The bit about a Phantom being able to "die" is also accompanying SNN1 which calls them "most minor of elementals", I'm not certain it was written in the context of SNN2 which distinguishes between minor elementals and fragmented essences from spells.

I'm not even sure what the first part of that means, since every summoning spell I can find in warlocks has either (fragmented elemental essence) next to it (Leaf Rustler, Phantom Footman, Phantom, Flame Friend, Water Wisps) or (elemental essence fragment) next to it (Little Mud Mound, Little Ice Monster).

Do you think there might be some kind of subtle difference between the 5 "FEE" summons and the 2 "EEF" summons? Is there a real difference between a fragmented essence and an essence fragment?

LMMs and LIMs are little versions of existing earth/water variations, so maybe they are more whole somehow? Phantoms are classed right in with the lower-tier spells of Rustler/Footman/Friend/Wisp though...

The D+G quote you requested from page 55 under "The Elemental Intelligence":

A Major Elemental is a fragmented essence of a larger and more powerful Elemental Intelligence.
..
When the physical form it takes is destroyed, the essence portion survives and automatically returns to its own dimension and reforms with the larger whole.
..
Warlock spells that call upon or seemingly create very simplistic Elemental beings are actually drawing tiny fragments from an Elemental Intelligence.

Phantom is listed as an example of this along with flame friend, screaming flame wall, dancing fire, footman, wisp, and golem.

It does say though that the mud mound is actually a "lesser" elemental...

However since it doesn't say "Little Mud Mound" ... I dunno if it's elevating the status of the spell or if it's referring to the guy on page 59 described as a "minor" one.

LMMs and MMs are definitely not the same thing, MMs are stronger if you compare their stats on page 60 of Dragons to page 231 of Palladium Fantasy which still has (elemental essence fragment).

[eliakon]

Since there is text elsewhere saying that elementals are immortal then, yes any elemental dying is a rather serious issue.
This isn't creating a temporary elemental this is summoning a real elemental, or at least part of one, and then risking its actual death.

We need to compare apples to apples. Discussing the morality of created life is one thing but it is a different moral topic than the morality of summoned life.

[Axelmania]

If what you summoned has a distinct life then yes. This is the issue when you use the minutes/hour (Rifts/PF) ritual to summon actual lesser elementals.

Essence fragments though, whether it's a small fragment from a spell or a big (half) fragment from summoning a major elemental, doesn't permanently kill anything if it dies.

All it's really doing is sending the fragment back to the intelligence, freeing it. It's kind of like if you killed an essence fragment of a splugorth possessing someone, except in this case it's possessing some rocks or water or air or fire or something.

So unless we figure out actual penalties to an intelligence for a warlock spell getting killed, the only RP reason seems to be "I don't want to cause the intelligence pain".

[eliakon]

If what you summoned has a distinct life then yes. This is the issue when you use the minutes/hour (Rifts/PF) ritual to summon actual lesser elementals.

Essence fragments though, whether it's a small fragment from a spell or a big (half) fragment from summoning a major elemental, doesn't permanently kill anything if it dies.

If we change the definition of 'kill' and 'dies' so that they don't mean what they mean sure....
But the discussion here is about the actual game as written, and not an altered house ruled version where we rewrite the rules to work differently.

All it's really doing is sending the fragment back to the intelligence, freeing it. It's kind of like if you killed an essence fragment of a splugorth possessing someone, except in this case it's possessing some rocks or water or air or fire or something.

That is an interesting house rule....
....but has zero support in canon. Since it says "kills" and "dies" not "sends back" it would seem that the canon is that the fragment dies and does not go back and rejoin the EI.

Which could mean that the source can now permanently manifest one less essence fragment, since one of its fragments is now dead.
This also assumes that the fragmented piece can return back to the EI. If that EI breaks off a piece of itself to make a lesser elemental, ten those fragments may be actual lives that now exist independent of the EI.

So unless we figure out actual penalties to an intelligence for a warlock spell getting killed, the only RP reason seems to be "I don't want to cause the intelligence pain".

Correction, unless we figure out a penalty for your version instead of the actual game version.

Again we are making a apples to books comparison.
The book says that doing X kills something, when the argument against it is that no, it doesn't actually do what the book says, but instead does something totally different...
....then there isn't really any discussion of the situation going on anymore, just an analysis of what the situation would be like if we re-write the rules to be some hypothetical alternative.

[Axelmania]

Killing something's physical form doesn't mean killing it's soul. Nothing is said about killing the fragment. Phantoms/Footmen/Wisps/Friends are all forms made out of fragments. Killing the form is not explicitly killing the fragment.

Kind of like how you can "kill" a demon but it doesn't really die it just returns to Hades.

[eliakon]

Killing something's physical form doesn't mean killing it's soul. Nothing is said about killing the fragment. Phantoms/Footmen/Wisps/Friends are all forms made out of fragments. Killing the form is not explicitly killing the fragment.

Kind of like how you can "kill" a demon but it doesn't really die it just returns to Hades.

Since it says 'kill' then yes, killing the fragment is actually indeed killing the fragment.
Hades demons used to die. They changed the rules. When they changed the rules they printed an explicit statement that said 'if you kill a demon off of its world, then it doesn't die, its soul goes back to its plane of origin and reforms'. This is because with out such a statement, killing something is assumed to actually kill it. That is what the statement means.
There is nothing, in any book, that I can recall that says that elementals have the same property and do not actually die when killed. Now if you have such a source, by all means please share it. Otherwise this is firmly in the realm of houserule.

[Axelmania]

I know in the case of greater elements that both the Conversion Book and Dragons and Gods specify that the big 1/2 fragment of the intelligence used to form most Major Elementals goes to rejoin it.

I guess it could be a different case for them and smaller fragments used for the spell-summons but kind of doubt it.

The general impression given is that the forms they take are just mobile robots piloted by the spirits.

[Grug]

There is nothing, in any book, that I can recall that says that elementals have the same property and do not actually die when killed. Now if you have such a source, by all means please share it. Otherwise this is firmly in the realm of houserule.

Dragon & God's page 55, part two under vulnerabilities.

In order for an elemental to exist outside of their home deminsion, they need to either construct a physical body or posses someone. This is true for all elementals, even for the fragments from a greater one (flame friend, Phantom etc.). the destruction of the physical/host body returns the elemental back to its home deminsion. According to the pages within dragons & God's at least.

[Library Ogre]

So, what happens if you hit a Flame Friend with Soul Drinker weapon?

[eliakon]

So, what happens if you hit a Flame Friend with Soul Drinker weapon?

Absolutely nothing.
Since the Flame Friend has no blood, there is no way to 'draw blood' which is required to trigger the soul drink of most rune weapons....

[Axelmania]

"Stone to Flesh" against an Earth Elemental could make them vulnerable though perhaps. Anyone know any fire>stone spells?

As best I know of elementals, to kill them you need to stab their immaterial form before they possess elements to make any kind of body. So usually the only one who can kill them is the warlock summoning them who has that window.