silverback

[Zer0 Kay]

But the difference between the Silverbacks should be the same as the difference between a Veritech and a super or armored. There shouldn't be a difference in designation. That is something the RPG made up it would be idiotic if a RL military unit did that with modular packs. We don't se different model numbers in the paperwork for a HMMWV with canopy on or not or different guns on the pintle mount. We only see different designators when the chassis is significantly different. The electric turret for example or the up armored both required other modifications that made it so the unit could never be the standard model.

[Arnie100]

Yeah, the Up-Armored Humvee is referred to as the M1114 and then there's the Enhanced Armament Carrier version, the M1151.

[ShadowLogan]

But the difference between the Silverbacks should be the same as the difference between a Veritech and a super or armored. There shouldn't be a difference in designation. That is something the RPG made up it would be idiotic if a RL military unit did that with modular packs. We don't se different model numbers in the paperwork for a HMMWV with canopy on or not or different guns on the pintle mount. We only see different designators when the chassis is significantly different. The electric turret for example or the up armored both required other modifications that made it so the unit could never be the standard model.

The Silverback and VHT do not appear to be using ground vehicle designation schemes, it appears to follow aircraft. Now as Palladium (though this might be on HG and not PB) really doesn't do Block Upgrades, that leaves them with model upgrade designations, but a change in engine (or other major change) would be enough to push it into either a new block or model number.

I would also add that you are assuming that the differences in the 3 models are quantifiable as add-ons, when the difference might actually be built-in:
-the H/E's canopy may be built-in feature that allows the Reinforced Pilot's Compartment that is not present on the L
-the H/E has a higher robotic strength rating (it is 13% stronger)
-the H model's MM-12 missile launchers may be built-in feature as it is not an option for the L or E
-the H/E has a different Avionic Suite (not all of which is from the canopy) than the L

[Zer0 Kay]

The added RPS is only evident in RPG and is the equivalent of 1E increasing the strength of the super even though it is just a bolt on fast pack.

As a terrestrial vehicle it doesn't have avionics. Radar, though it may be part of an avionics system is a separate subsystem and doesn't necessarily deal with aviation of the vehicle it is mounted in. The AWACS radar, is not avionics technical but fits in the general definition of electronics used on aviation equipment. An AN/GPN-22 is definitely NOT avionics.

[ShadowLogan]

The added RPS is only evident in RPG and is the equivalent of 1E increasing the strength of the super even though it is just a bolt on fast pack.

As a terrestrial vehicle it doesn't have avionics. Radar, though it may be part of an avionics system is a separate subsystem and doesn't necessarily deal with aviation of the vehicle it is mounted in. The AWACS radar, is not avionics technical but fits in the general definition of electronics used on aviation equipment. An AN/GPN-22 is definitely NOT avionics.

You are basing your entire premise on the external looks, without considering any of the text or game mechanic stats in the matter. All of which come down in favor of them being separate models.

Avionics may not be the proper term for the ground mecha, but deal with it. Differences between the L and H/E in their standard sensors and equipment include:
-Radar Range for aerial targets (25% better on the H/E over the L)
-Motion Detector & Collision Warning System: H/E has better range over the L (>6x), not to mention the L lacks the bonus to dodge ground vehicles the H/E has from this system
-Radio Communications Suite: H/E has better range (50% better)
-L has Infrared Sensor that are not listed on the H/E
-the Combat Computer Bonuses are presented different between the H/E (Railgun/missiles) and the L (integral/handheld) in what they apply to if not strength

This is on top of the Robotic PS improvement for the H/E over the L, the fact that the MM-12 is not presented as a modular system (which means it can't be plugged into the L or E). All of this strongly points to three separate mecha in the same family and not a single mecha sporting mission add-ons.

[Zer0 Kay]

The added RPS is only evident in RPG and is the equivalent of 1E increasing the strength of the super even though it is just a bolt on fast pack.

As a terrestrial vehicle it doesn't have avionics. Radar, though it may be part of an avionics system is a separate subsystem and doesn't necessarily deal with aviation of the vehicle it is mounted in. The AWACS radar, is not avionics technical but fits in the general definition of electronics used on aviation equipment. An AN/GPN-22 is definitely NOT avionics.

You are basing your entire premise on the external looks, without considering any of the text or game mechanic stats in the matter. All of which come down in favor of them being separate models.

Avionics may not be the proper term for the ground mecha, but deal with it. Differences between the L and H/E in their standard sensors and equipment include:
-Radar Range for aerial targets (25% better on the H/E over the L)
-Motion Detector & Collision Warning System: H/E has better range over the L (>6x), not to mention the L lacks the bonus to dodge ground vehicles the H/E has from this system
-Radio Communications Suite: H/E has better range (50% better)
-L has Infrared Sensor that are not listed on the H/E
-the Combat Computer Bonuses are presented different between the H/E (Railgun/missiles) and the L (integral/handheld) in what they apply to if not strength

This is on top of the Robotic PS improvement for the H/E over the L, the fact that the MM-12 is not presented as a modular system (which means it can't be plugged into the L or E). All of this strongly points to three separate mecha in the same family and not a single mecha sporting mission add-ons.

And you defending PBs decisions like this show me that you would have agreed that in the old REF Field guide that the object identified as a hand on the Beta was a hand because it was PB canon never mind that it is clearly the joint in ALL other more official sources. The sensor on the E can NOT be the same as the Beta's it is far smaller.

[ShadowLogan]

re: REF Field Guide in 1E
You are talking about pg 27? That can be a simple typo, or seen as lumping the forearm in w/the hand as the forearm section IS what it is pointing toward and not the joint.

re: VM-9
At no time does the text actually state the VM-9E is using the Beta's exact sensors (on pg176manga TSC):
-in the fluff description of the 9E the only passage that mentions the Beta states: "However, it sacrifices heavy weapon systems for an advanced sensor array similar to the Beta Fighter on the cannon mount." Bold Emphasis mine, Italic Emphasis in text. Right here they say the sensors are similar, not identical.
-the Sensor description reads "has all the same sensory features (radar, radio, etc) as the Beta Fighter's sensory system" (pg176 TSC manga size). That does not mean the VM-9E has to have the same model of sensors, only the same sensor types and sensor performance.
--As the same basic text is used on the Condor, even though it is smaller than a Beta in Battloid, w/o the obvious sensor mast (pg131)
--As the same basic text is used on the Conbat, even though it lacks the sensor mast, and in many respects is smaller in F mode than the Beta (pg123)
-the Beta does not have exact model names for the various sensors & equipment, just generic name place holders (pg113-116) like "radar" or "combat computer", not Radar is an APG-113 and Combat Computer is a DP-965lt MB w/8GB of RAM and Pentium 4 E#### CPU.

The text does not state the VM-9E's Sensor Turret IS the Beta's Sensor BUT rather that it is similar in type of sensors and capabilities.