Gathering Information

[mirithol]

Hey all and Happy 2016. I'm running a city campaign - some mystery, some espionage, some intrigue, political consequences, etc.

Simple question: How do you handle your players gathering information? Streetwise seems to apply to the underworld (human - no fiery bits), Surveillance to military situations and Intelligence to spying on the enemy. What about talking to Kel the barkeep or running down a rumor that is not nefarious, such as Lady Dominia's favorite flowers?

Same question with observation/perception? I've looked at the forums and the house rules on perception. Any new bright ideas here?

I look at observation as the ability to notice something (not skill vs. skill as in guard noticing a player character trying to prowl) like the mud on the guard's cloaks is yellow from the south gate and they are at the north gate. And there is blood on their scabbards that's dripping on their boots... (Combo of I.Q. and M.A.?)

Perception to me deals more with the maid-in-waiting seemingly is nervous or the merchant is wearing too much perfume in an attempt to cover up the stench of the rotting disease that is consuming him. Seems Mental Affinity based.

Seems that the difficulty of the check should be incorporated in the check.

Are some of these just universal and everybody can do it through role playing? Interested in your thoughts.

Thanks - Miri

[Whiskeyjack]

I've always used streetwise in a broader sense. Sure it's used for figuring out who to fence stolen property to, but the same skill will allow the bakers assistant to know that he needs to bring thistle flowers from Holor's Pass to Draseena the florist if he wants to find out the favourite flower of Lady Dominia if he wants her to keep secret who is looking for the information.
While MA can be useful in getting info from people, perception I generally use as an IQ based skill. You just have a better chance to notice finer details the smarter you are.
Roleplaying should always be the end result though.

[The Dark Elf]

I make up attribute checks.

ME or IQ for perception.
MA or PB to persuade

I generally just roll under the attribute on D20 for success. 20 is auto fail (in case the attribut is above 20.

I use this for balance (PP), gripping (PS) etc etc. quick easy and has a good ratio of success for the games I run.

[Veknironth]

Well, ideally, this is something the characters role play as much as possible. Certainly, it takes some of the player character out of the game and replaces it with the actual player, but otherwise the game devolves into pure math.

"Roll to find the information. 48, that does it, your character now knows..."

I think it's better to plant the clues you want the PC's to have, which will lead them to the plot points. You can figure out which PC would notice the mud or blood, inform said PC and go from there. Or, you can have whichever player decides to look hard at the gate figure it out. If no one wants to take that step, make them roll and don't bother checking it against a stat. Let's face it, if you need the characters to notice the mud in order to move the plot along, SOMEONE is going to notice the blood. Why bother rolling until character A makes it under 30% or whatever?

-Vek
"Don't railroad the PC's, however.

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't use the rolls for the actual information. All it does is give the characters the knowledge of where there need to go to get the information, or what they might need to get the info. Hence the knowledge of the flowers. They still need to get the flowers and negotiate a trade for the info. The skill just guides them where they need to go.

[kiralon]

Same as whiskeyjack, the rolls will tell them likely places for information gathering. They still have to do it themselves, however if they roll really well the guard might be a bit more talkative than normal or if they roll badly he might be more alert or suspicious.

[Glorath]

Role playing the search for information is the method that I prefer. If I need to make a die roll in order to raise the tension, I do it behind the screen. Usually a D20 vs the relevant characteristic, modified by the difficulty of the situation. Regardless of success or failure, I provide a description that matches my interpretation of the roll. This has led to some "wild goose chases", that have provided for memorable plot twists and adventures.

[Library Ogre]

Palladium doesn't really go into social skills. I'd say Streetwise might help you get some idea of where to look (help you find an information broker, perhaps), but the default, when you don't have a system, is to role-play it.

[acreRake]

I think Vek is exactly right. As Far as I can tell, the intent of the design is that if a player comes up with a reasonable way to get the information, they get it. (Whether it be CSI or judging how the court feels about the king.)

'Yes, and...' & 'Yes, but...' Are your best tools in this situation.

[zyanitevp]

Same as whiskeyjack, the rolls will tell them likely places for information gathering. They still have to do it themselves, however if they roll really well the guard might be a bit more talkative than normal or if they roll badly he might be more alert or suspicious.

I do the same

[Bill]

There's also nothing preventing you, as GM, from adding a couple skills to the available options that more directly meet your needs. Specialized lore skills for different aspects of your city/country/region could be used to clue the players into local political relationships, underworld connections, etc. You could even be as direct as creating a skill called gather information to be used in casual social interaction with NPCs. Since you're planning ahead, adding these options may be easier than coming up with a stat-based workaround. If you do go that way, I highly recommend typing them out in full detail for the sake of clarity. It also sends a clear message to the players that these things are intended to come into play.

[mirithol]

Thanks for all of the replies.

Gathering Information: Sounds like a new general skill available to all O.C.C.s is the way I'll go. In terms of an adventure arc, the story is never based on a single piece of info the player characters may miss. The essential information is always available. Additionally, I usually have three ways for them to stay on, find their way back to when they stray (they always stray) or enhance the path. This usually involves providing options for alternative methods to achieve the outcome. Maybe a piece of information that leads to diplomacy or provides leverage for blackmail rather than violence. I give story award experience points if the party successfully navigates an encounter without a fight - usually the same as a kill, but sometimes more if they convert their opponent into an ally or source of information. This has the added advantage of good role-playing opportunities about whether to talk or fight. "Maybe we could talk our way past the cyclops?" Of course, they're deluded here - cyclops always lead to bash-fests.

As a side note: Rarely I use encounters where the player characters shouldn't fight a powerful creature/being and get more experience for running away. Tugging on Algor's cape usually leads to total party kill. If that occurs, I'll reboot from the start of the fight, let them walk away with no experience and force them to consider the battles they choose in the future knowing that these encounters exist within the game - once. If they choose a powerful foe poorly a second time, well, Algor doesn't kill characters, players kill characters.

Observation/Perception: Some great suggestions - thanks. I'm trying to avoid too much math, but short of adding an attribute looks like some will be needed. I use these rolls qualitatively. The party walks into a bar where the bad guys have been paid to ambush them. The fight will happen. Noticing the wrong colored mud on a soldiers cloak may give them pause and alert them something may be amiss. A better roll where they spot blood splatters mixed with the mud and realize the city guard uses short-swords and these men are using scimitars negates surprise. Further noticing the men are nervous and sweating (or worse observing them with cool and steely eyes) with hands on weapons might suggest the party attacks first or discreetly cast some defensive magic. A "critical" success gives the party an advantage. A failure the opposite.

Thanks for the feedback and ideas.

Cheers, Miri

[mirithol]

I started this post with a question about gathering information and also observation and perception. Reading through the Rifter 73 about the Nexus Born I noticed some of the O.C.C.s get bonuses to Perception. That got me pulling out some dusty books.

Eureka - the answer was hidden in the RIFTS Ultimate Edition p.357 (pretty much the last rule in the book). Perception uses the player character's 5 senses to notice something, so it's more than just observation that uses only vision. Basically it's a save vs. circumstance on a 1D20. 4+ for easy, 17+ for difficult. In RIFTS some O.C.C.s and R.C.C.s get bonuses at character creation. Character attributes don't seem to be involved, which makes some sense as a low I.Q. street thug might be much more perceptive than a high I.Q. distracted scholar. There is, however, a small derivative effect as a high I.Q. adds a bonus to skills and skills come into play on opposed perception checks.

In opposed checks like Prowl vs. Detect Ambush, each 10 skill points (rounded down) counts as a +1 to the perception roll. Each side rolls off and high roll wins. As G.M. I'd apply mods to the roll (for a guard: alerted +2/sleepy -2/ rainstorm -2, etc.).

Rule seems consistent with skills: A 4th level character with Detect Concealment and Traps would have a 40% chance (25%+5%/level) of detecting a trap while an untrained character would need a roll to notice of 17+ (or 20% chance).

I'm considering adding circumstance racial bonuses: Dwarves get +1 or +2 when underground, Elves and Wolfen +1 in forests and the wild, etc. Thoughts?

[glitterboy2098]

i'd say it would depend on the information.

if it is something that should be reasonably common knowledge on the streets, just roll the skill to see if the player knows it.

more esoteric stuff that only a few people would know, i'd say the skill roll just represents the character's ability to figure out who to talk to to find out.. and GM's can exploit this to trigger RP. using the example of the florist and the special flowers for example, the GM might not have the roll tell you to go to the florist.. instead the GM can tell the player "you don't know who to talk to to get that info.. but you do have a contact who hangs out at the Red Dragon Inn who could tell you who you need to find, but you'll need to meet his price." then they can go to the Inn, do some RP to arrange to obtain the information about "the Florist at such and such street can probably tell you what you need to know, but they won;t tell you without a price, i hear they need [rare flowers], she might trade for it." etc..

[mirithol]

Off Topic - our group loves the Red Dragon Inn game. How could we have not thought of that?

[say652]

I prefer the use of actual skills vs the catch all perception roll.

That being said, the Find Contraband skill would also help immensely in doing underworld research.

[Razorwing]

Wouldn't information gathering fall under the Intelligence Skill? it is basically about getting information and understanding it (albeit from an espionage/military perspective as written).

That said, getting information is one thing, sifting through it for the right information and understanding it is another. None of which should preclude the opportunity for role-play of course (but by the same token, role play shouldn't be the only way to get information).