Palladium Calendar
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Palladium Calendar
I was curious as to whether or not there is an established Calendar for the Palladium World. I seem to recall somewhere in the books they used months and days with the same names as ours... which seems a little odd since there are no known connections between the two worlds (save the Pantheon of Light and Dark... and it doesn't seem likely they would pass on such information since our modern calendar was developed after they left Earth... more or less)
Now it is possible... even likely that each major nation likely has their own calendar... or at least names for the months. It is also possible that few of the current nations can agree which year it is... since most likely count from when their nation was founded. Elves and Dwarves likely also have (or rather had) their own way of tracking months and years... which may or may not have influenced the various human nations they have since become a part of.
One of the reasons this is of a concern is the passing of seasons, the length of the year and various religious holidays of various religions within the Palladium world... none of which seem to be expressly stated. Sure, we can assume that this world has a 365.25 day year... and that it is arranged in approximately 52 weeks of 7 days divided between 12 months of approximately 4 weeks... but is it? Okay... it does make it easier if it is the same as ours... but does it make sense for it to be? Shouldn't the months at least have names that make more sense for the setting (the God Janus isn't known to the people of Palladium... so why would they have the month of January which was named after him)?
Just some thoughts that pop into my head when I've been up way too late with far too little sleep.
Now it is possible... even likely that each major nation likely has their own calendar... or at least names for the months. It is also possible that few of the current nations can agree which year it is... since most likely count from when their nation was founded. Elves and Dwarves likely also have (or rather had) their own way of tracking months and years... which may or may not have influenced the various human nations they have since become a part of.
One of the reasons this is of a concern is the passing of seasons, the length of the year and various religious holidays of various religions within the Palladium world... none of which seem to be expressly stated. Sure, we can assume that this world has a 365.25 day year... and that it is arranged in approximately 52 weeks of 7 days divided between 12 months of approximately 4 weeks... but is it? Okay... it does make it easier if it is the same as ours... but does it make sense for it to be? Shouldn't the months at least have names that make more sense for the setting (the God Janus isn't known to the people of Palladium... so why would they have the month of January which was named after him)?
Just some thoughts that pop into my head when I've been up way too late with far too little sleep.
There are three types of people in the world; those who can count and those who can't.
Re: Palladium Calendar
There is the royal timiro calendo in the old ones book
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Re: Palladium Calendar
There's 12 months and they are exactly the same as ours (Jan to Dec).
Re: Palladium Calendar
My group has a really cool calendar we use with all unique names for each of the months. It is based on a 365 day year with each month lasting 30 days and a special 5 day long period at the end of the year (extended to 6 days once every 4 years, due to an extra 6 hours not accounted for throughout the year).
I would share it with you but I didn't create it so. I would have to get my friends permission first.
I would share it with you but I didn't create it so. I would have to get my friends permission first.
Re: Palladium Calendar
Yeah... I never understood why the Palladium Calendar is exactly the same as Earth's. Other than the Pantheon of Light and Dark, there is no known connection to Earth... and even then the Calendar we use was developed after the Pantheon fell out of favor on Earth and presumably moved on to other worlds where they were still worshiped.
So... how can Palladium have the exact same Calendar as we do? Our Calendar was developed mainly by Romans after Gods and Emperors that never were a part of Palladium culture. Sure, it is possible that dimensional travelers from Earth came to Palladium and brought our Calendar there... but it doesn't seem that likely that the cultures of Palladium would choose to adopt it... especially when they are more likely to develop their own version.
As the first great civilization to emerge on Palladium, I would imagine the Elves would have developed their own calendar that has become the basis for the ones currently used by most of the current civilizations on Palladium. It is likely that as the years rolled by, the current cultures have changed and modified it to suit their cultures (most likely changing the names of the months to reflect their cultures and language). Additionally, how different cultures measure which year it is can vary greatly (often year 0 will be when the particular nation was founded). It is possible that as one of the oldest human nations, the Western Empire has the oldest calendar in current use... and may even be the basis for other nations (something they may not like, but have no better option to go with).
The point I am trying to make is that while it may be easiest to just use the same Calendar (with the days and months) as we do... does it really make sense to do so? Palladium isn't Earth... it is a different world, likely in a different dimension, that has developed independently (and with little known contact) with Earth. The chances of their year being exactly the same (365.25 days long), and developing the exact same calendar to measure the days, weeks, months and years seems a little implausible.
So... how can Palladium have the exact same Calendar as we do? Our Calendar was developed mainly by Romans after Gods and Emperors that never were a part of Palladium culture. Sure, it is possible that dimensional travelers from Earth came to Palladium and brought our Calendar there... but it doesn't seem that likely that the cultures of Palladium would choose to adopt it... especially when they are more likely to develop their own version.
As the first great civilization to emerge on Palladium, I would imagine the Elves would have developed their own calendar that has become the basis for the ones currently used by most of the current civilizations on Palladium. It is likely that as the years rolled by, the current cultures have changed and modified it to suit their cultures (most likely changing the names of the months to reflect their cultures and language). Additionally, how different cultures measure which year it is can vary greatly (often year 0 will be when the particular nation was founded). It is possible that as one of the oldest human nations, the Western Empire has the oldest calendar in current use... and may even be the basis for other nations (something they may not like, but have no better option to go with).
The point I am trying to make is that while it may be easiest to just use the same Calendar (with the days and months) as we do... does it really make sense to do so? Palladium isn't Earth... it is a different world, likely in a different dimension, that has developed independently (and with little known contact) with Earth. The chances of their year being exactly the same (365.25 days long), and developing the exact same calendar to measure the days, weeks, months and years seems a little implausible.
There are three types of people in the world; those who can count and those who can't.
Re: Palladium Calendar
Razorwing wrote:Yeah... I never understood why the Palladium Calendar is exactly the same as Earth's. Other than the Pantheon of Light and Dark, there is no known connection to Earth... and even then the Calendar we use was developed after the Pantheon fell out of favor on Earth and presumably moved on to other worlds where they were still worshiped.
So... how can Palladium have the exact same Calendar as we do? Our Calendar was developed mainly by Romans after Gods and Emperors that never were a part of Palladium culture. Sure, it is possible that dimensional travelers from Earth came to Palladium and brought our Calendar there... but it doesn't seem that likely that the cultures of Palladium would choose to adopt it... especially when they are more likely to develop their own version.
As the first great civilization to emerge on Palladium, I would imagine the Elves would have developed their own calendar that has become the basis for the ones currently used by most of the current civilizations on Palladium. It is likely that as the years rolled by, the current cultures have changed and modified it to suit their cultures (most likely changing the names of the months to reflect their cultures and language). Additionally, how different cultures measure which year it is can vary greatly (often year 0 will be when the particular nation was founded). It is possible that as one of the oldest human nations, the Western Empire has the oldest calendar in current use... and may even be the basis for other nations (something they may not like, but have no better option to go with).
The point I am trying to make is that while it may be easiest to just use the same Calendar (with the days and months) as we do... does it really make sense to do so? Palladium isn't Earth... it is a different world, likely in a different dimension, that has developed independently (and with little known contact) with Earth. The chances of their year being exactly the same (365.25 days long), and developing the exact same calendar to measure the days, weeks, months and years seems a little implausible.
Yet, Palladium has the same mass and gravitational pull as Earth. Is located the same distance from its Sun as Earth and has the same seasons as Earth. Lastly, it has humans the same as on Earth.
So it having the same number of days in a year seems very plausible all things considered. Even the same number of months. The only thing that is in disconnect is the naming of those Months and Days. Since they are named after Earth deities not known on the Palladium World.
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Re: Palladium Calendar
Greetings and Salutations. The names of the months are found in Northern Hinterlands (by Bill Coffin), and are January through December. In Dragons & Gods, it mentions how every major calendar and their holidays are based off of the Pantheon of Light & Dark calendar. Because I'm at work, I can't provide exact page numbers or quotes.
While every major calendar may be based off of one calendar, that still leaves room for variations. I never much cared for how they used the January through December calendar, so I tend to view that as just one of the many naming systems.
For a time I started making more detailed calendars, but I did some screwy math (can't figure it out today) to determine how many days were in a year and some other variations. My goal had been to make it more or less lime up with our calendar and yet be different. Being comparable is important due to the Megaversal system and the ability to port over and dealing with concepts such as ages and life spans. Changing things like how many days in a year will matter when you say humans have an average 60 year life span, for example.
Anyways, lunch is over. I may post again later. Farewell and safe journeys.
While every major calendar may be based off of one calendar, that still leaves room for variations. I never much cared for how they used the January through December calendar, so I tend to view that as just one of the many naming systems.
For a time I started making more detailed calendars, but I did some screwy math (can't figure it out today) to determine how many days were in a year and some other variations. My goal had been to make it more or less lime up with our calendar and yet be different. Being comparable is important due to the Megaversal system and the ability to port over and dealing with concepts such as ages and life spans. Changing things like how many days in a year will matter when you say humans have an average 60 year life span, for example.
Anyways, lunch is over. I may post again later. Farewell and safe journeys.
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Re: Palladium Calendar
Lukterran wrote:Yet, Palladium has the same mass and gravitational pull as Earth. Is located the same distance from its Sun as Earth and has the same seasons as Earth.
Not 100% but Im not sure these are canon. My initial thought is Palladium could very well be flat (edge of the world etc.) and whats shown is tiny compared to Earth.
We also dont know that physics brings the sun and moon out and not magic instead. Im being pedantic a little, but in a world where magic exists anything goes...
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Re: Palladium Calendar
The Dark Elf wrote:There's 12 months and they are exactly the same as ours (Jan to Dec).
This is supporting my the text in the Zodiac Mage Class canon pub. in the rifters.
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Re: Palladium Calendar
some resources for assembling your own "in setting" calender variations:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_calendar (some good alternate names for the months.. might make a good Wolfen calender?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_calendar (actually just one way the above was written out.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_calendar - with the deities in question being around, seems reasonable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_calendar Ditto
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar details on several variants. the wolfen might well use a version of this, perhaps with names from the germanic ones linked above. the Julian calendar might make a fun base.. since it doesn't match up right to the solar year, and required entire Leap-weeks.
and a fictional ones:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle-earth_calendar has the same year length, different months.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_calendar (some good alternate names for the months.. might make a good Wolfen calender?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_calendar (actually just one way the above was written out.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_calendar - with the deities in question being around, seems reasonable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_calendar Ditto
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar details on several variants. the wolfen might well use a version of this, perhaps with names from the germanic ones linked above. the Julian calendar might make a fun base.. since it doesn't match up right to the solar year, and required entire Leap-weeks.
and a fictional ones:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle-earth_calendar has the same year length, different months.
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Re: Palladium Calendar
While Palladium does have a similar gravitation as Earth, we don't know if it is the same distance from their sun as the Earth is from ours (they don't have space travel after all). We do know that they don't have the same stars as we do (the only way they could is if Palladium was in the same place Earth is).
Humans are quite literally everywhere in the Megaverse... so that alone doesn't prove any connection between the two worlds... or any others. As for the Palladium Calendar being based off of that used by the Pantheon of Light and Dark... well that just further supports the idea that it can't be the same as ours... as our calendar was developed after Egypt was in decline and their Gods moved on to other worlds. How can the PoLaD spread a calendar from one world when it was developed after they left that world. And like I said before, the names of the days and months were named after Gods, planets and even Emperors that never existed on (or known to have visited) Palladium.
Seriously... it really doesn't seem like the Calendar that is presented as the official one would naturally develop as an exact mirror to ours. It seems more like Kevin went with the easiest option rather than one that made sense for the setting.
Now we do know that the Pantheon of Light and Dark has been active of Palladium for thousands of years... many of its Gods even helped to put the Old Ones to sleep. It was an active church during the Age of the Elves and managed to survive the Elf-Dwarf War, the Millennium of Purification and the rise of Humanity. It is arguably the most influential church in the world... with branches and chapters in nearly every corner of the world. So why would their calendar have names for days and months based off of Roman and Norse Gods and rulers? The answer is that they wouldn't. The are more likely to use their own names and such for such things.
Then there are the major races like Elves Dwarves that have also influenced such names... at least during their empires, which may have been carried over to more recent times. Since humans are now the dominant race, and with many nations, they too have likely modified such a calendar... especially if they don't worship the Pantheon of Light and Dark (Bizantium worships the Northern Gods, so is likely to have altered many of the names to reflect that). Even in human nations where the Pantheon is still a major influence, it is possible that some rulers feel that the Church may have too much influence by keeping the names it uses for the Calendar. Then there are those rulers who are both arrogant and megalomaniacal to see themselves as equals to the Gods and deserve a place amongst them... at least with the Calendar.
Simply put... Palladium is a unique setting... and deserves an equally unique calendar to reflect that... even if it is just changing the names of the days and months to reflect the cultures of the setting.
Humans are quite literally everywhere in the Megaverse... so that alone doesn't prove any connection between the two worlds... or any others. As for the Palladium Calendar being based off of that used by the Pantheon of Light and Dark... well that just further supports the idea that it can't be the same as ours... as our calendar was developed after Egypt was in decline and their Gods moved on to other worlds. How can the PoLaD spread a calendar from one world when it was developed after they left that world. And like I said before, the names of the days and months were named after Gods, planets and even Emperors that never existed on (or known to have visited) Palladium.
Seriously... it really doesn't seem like the Calendar that is presented as the official one would naturally develop as an exact mirror to ours. It seems more like Kevin went with the easiest option rather than one that made sense for the setting.
Now we do know that the Pantheon of Light and Dark has been active of Palladium for thousands of years... many of its Gods even helped to put the Old Ones to sleep. It was an active church during the Age of the Elves and managed to survive the Elf-Dwarf War, the Millennium of Purification and the rise of Humanity. It is arguably the most influential church in the world... with branches and chapters in nearly every corner of the world. So why would their calendar have names for days and months based off of Roman and Norse Gods and rulers? The answer is that they wouldn't. The are more likely to use their own names and such for such things.
Then there are the major races like Elves Dwarves that have also influenced such names... at least during their empires, which may have been carried over to more recent times. Since humans are now the dominant race, and with many nations, they too have likely modified such a calendar... especially if they don't worship the Pantheon of Light and Dark (Bizantium worships the Northern Gods, so is likely to have altered many of the names to reflect that). Even in human nations where the Pantheon is still a major influence, it is possible that some rulers feel that the Church may have too much influence by keeping the names it uses for the Calendar. Then there are those rulers who are both arrogant and megalomaniacal to see themselves as equals to the Gods and deserve a place amongst them... at least with the Calendar.
Simply put... Palladium is a unique setting... and deserves an equally unique calendar to reflect that... even if it is just changing the names of the days and months to reflect the cultures of the setting.
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Re: Palladium Calendar
Razorwing wrote:we don't know if it is the same distance from their sun as the Earth is from ours (they don't have space travel after all). We do know that they don't have the same stars as we do (the only way they could is if Palladium was in the same place Earth is).
We actually do know that it is within, what astronomers call "Habitable zone". Meaning that it is which the distance from the sun that sufficient atmospheric pressure can support liquid water at their surface. We already accepted that it has the same mass and gravitational pull as Earth so it means that it has to be the same distance from the sun (or fairly close) to be with the Goldilocks Zone. We can also assume that Palladium Worlds sun is a yellow dwarf with relatively the same size and mass as our own. Due to the numerous different effects other types of stars would have on a planets environment and biology.
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Re: Palladium Calendar
Razorwing wrote:we don't know if it is the same distance from their sun as the Earth is from ours (they don't have space travel after all). We do know that they don't have the same stars as we do (the only way they could is if Palladium was in the same place Earth is).
Exact same space-time/galactic cooridnates, but in a different dimension would result in the same seasons/solar year/day length..given minor variations for terrain, planetary spin/size etc.
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Re: Palladium Calendar
I love it when people try to apply science and logic in a fantasy setting... especially when evidence (like the Edge of the World Barrier) makes it impossible to be sure if Palladium is actually a planet or a magical dimension (like Hades or Dyval). The assumptions that are made can not be verified scientifically... in part because Palladium's science is too primitive to confirm it... and what evidence there is suggests otherwise.
Remember... at one point Palladium was the refuge of the Old Ones... which means that like Hades (is it really coincidence that Palladium and Hades have such striking similarities between their land masses?), Palladium could in fact be a pocket dimension... where the sun, moon and stars are merely for convenience and are not like they are in our universe. The Edge of the World barrier that surrounds the Palladium continent does seem to suggest this... as nothing that touches it is ever seen again... and nothing from the other side has ever managed to cross over in over 100,000 years.
So the whole "Goldilocks Zone" that people are trying to use as "proof" that Palladium is anything like Earth (other than having humans, one Pantheon of Gods we had at one time, and a general Earth-like environment) means very little. Until Palladium can develop rocket technology and travel the "stars" of their world, it can't be proven that Palladium is actually a world and not just a pocket dimension the Old Ones created for their refuge and entertainment.
Now, let us return to the topic at hand... the Calendar that makes no sense for the setting.
Remember... at one point Palladium was the refuge of the Old Ones... which means that like Hades (is it really coincidence that Palladium and Hades have such striking similarities between their land masses?), Palladium could in fact be a pocket dimension... where the sun, moon and stars are merely for convenience and are not like they are in our universe. The Edge of the World barrier that surrounds the Palladium continent does seem to suggest this... as nothing that touches it is ever seen again... and nothing from the other side has ever managed to cross over in over 100,000 years.
So the whole "Goldilocks Zone" that people are trying to use as "proof" that Palladium is anything like Earth (other than having humans, one Pantheon of Gods we had at one time, and a general Earth-like environment) means very little. Until Palladium can develop rocket technology and travel the "stars" of their world, it can't be proven that Palladium is actually a world and not just a pocket dimension the Old Ones created for their refuge and entertainment.
Now, let us return to the topic at hand... the Calendar that makes no sense for the setting.
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Re: Palladium Calendar
The Dark Elf wrote:There's 12 months and they are exactly the same as ours (Jan to Dec).
Well "ours" is not entirely accurate, there are several calendars in use currently in the world and not all of them use the same name for the months (Jan-Dec). So in that respect the Palladium world would appear to have a unified calendar system apparently.
As for the 12 Month aspect. That is likely based on a cycle, just like it is on many calendars in the past and present, and likely represent a major cycle or cycles. This likely isn't a major issue IMHO.
The names of the month is more of an issue. However, if we are eliminating meta-game reasoning related to the writing/editing process, it is possible it is nothing more than a complete coincidence that the months all have the same name as the Julian/Gregorian Calender. Do we know why the months are named Jan-Dec? And is it the reason the same as in our world? If they are different it could be nothing more than a coincidence.
Re: Palladium Calendar
The writers were obviously keeping it simple, if I say 1st of march you understand and don't need to look it up. If I say it's the Open Hand of Forge you got no idea.
Heres a good calendar my gm has setup
https://a-god-rebuilt.obsidianportal.co ... m-calendar
Heres a good calendar my gm has setup
https://a-god-rebuilt.obsidianportal.co ... m-calendar
Re: Palladium Calendar
ShadowLogan wrote:The names of the month is more of an issue. However, if we are eliminating meta-game reasoning related to the writing/editing process, it is possible it is nothing more than a complete coincidence that the months all have the same name as the Julian/Gregorian Calender. Do we know why the months are named Jan-Dec? And is it the reason the same as in our world? If they are different it could be nothing more than a coincidence.
The names of the days and months we use (at least for the Julian/Gregorian) are based on Roman and Norse Gods (Thursday = Thor's Day... Wednesday = Woden's Day... January = Janus)... and since Palladium isn't known to have Roman or Norse Gods (the Northern Pantheon may be Norse-like, but it isn't the same thing), then it seems unlikely they would use such names. Other names are based on Roman Emperors (Octavius = October)... and again... something that is unlikely to be present in Palladium.
Now, it has been said that the Palladium Calendar is based on that used by the Pantheon of Light and Dark (arguably the most influential and widespread religion on Palladium). Does it make sense they would use names for days and months based on gods from other Pantheons... or would they use their own names for such things?
Perhaps basing the names of the Days and Months on the gods of the Pantheon of Light and Dark would make it seem less like a cut and paste of our modern calendar into a fantasy setting. Dividing the year (365 days) into 30 days and 5 extra at the end of the year seems like a good idea. Maybe work with a 5 day week (instead of 7) so that each month has 6 weeks and the extra 5 days is a full week as well. Just thinking out loud now.
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Re: Palladium Calendar
The question though is the reason for these names being used in-universe. We use them because we name them after gods that are not present in the Palladium World, but could the PoL&D or even its followers have had different reasons for using those names? Maybe they are not commemorating a foreign god at all, but someone-eslse/thing-else/event that just a coincidence in the words, but the actual meanings/reasons are different, and maybe even the root words are different but when "adjusted" for day/month term they end-up the same as the Julian/Gregorian names.
Granted that is one big string of coincidences required to get it to work (19) for naming conventions. That in itself though may not be w/o precedent in Palladium World as Rifts Conversion Book 1 Revised, when discussing the Wolfen draws a strong connection to ancient rome ("but have developed into a sophisticated military machine amazingly similar to the early ancient Romans of Earth right down to similar garb, weaponry and military tactics...Coincidence seems to be the case here"-pg77 1st Paragraph). With a coincidence of this magnitude, a smaller one like "sharing" names, though maybe not their meaning, does not seem like a stretch at all.
The PoL&D also has several Egyptian named gods (Anubis, Set, Ra, Thoth, Isis, Osiris, Horus), "along with hundreds of other minor gods, godlings, demigods and spirits of good, selfish & evil" (Dragons & Gods pg133). So those minor players mentioned but not detailed, could also be the source as name variations and they are being honored for some great dead(s).
So I can see the various names used by coincidence that isn't game breaking given the "amazing similar" nature of the Wolfen to ancient Rome. Now I would agree it would likely defy credibility if the reasons for those names are the same as ours, but the reasons do not have to be exactly the same (ie we might have named Thrusday after the norse god Thor, but in Palladium World Thrusday might reference another figure/item/event that is not related to the actual Norse god Thor but they might have the same name or when shorted for the date end up the same).
Granted that is one big string of coincidences required to get it to work (19) for naming conventions. That in itself though may not be w/o precedent in Palladium World as Rifts Conversion Book 1 Revised, when discussing the Wolfen draws a strong connection to ancient rome ("but have developed into a sophisticated military machine amazingly similar to the early ancient Romans of Earth right down to similar garb, weaponry and military tactics...Coincidence seems to be the case here"-pg77 1st Paragraph). With a coincidence of this magnitude, a smaller one like "sharing" names, though maybe not their meaning, does not seem like a stretch at all.
The PoL&D also has several Egyptian named gods (Anubis, Set, Ra, Thoth, Isis, Osiris, Horus), "along with hundreds of other minor gods, godlings, demigods and spirits of good, selfish & evil" (Dragons & Gods pg133). So those minor players mentioned but not detailed, could also be the source as name variations and they are being honored for some great dead(s).
So I can see the various names used by coincidence that isn't game breaking given the "amazing similar" nature of the Wolfen to ancient Rome. Now I would agree it would likely defy credibility if the reasons for those names are the same as ours, but the reasons do not have to be exactly the same (ie we might have named Thrusday after the norse god Thor, but in Palladium World Thrusday might reference another figure/item/event that is not related to the actual Norse god Thor but they might have the same name or when shorted for the date end up the same).
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Re: Palladium Calendar
kiralon wrote:The writers were obviously keeping it simple, if I say 1st of march you understand and don't need to look it up. If I say it's the Open Hand of Forge you got no idea.
Heres a good calendar my gm has setup
https://a-god-rebuilt.obsidianportal.co ... m-calendar
I think the month names here seem to have come from the Rifter 50 constellations, but I don't know where the lunar month names came from. I definitely think it's a lot more immersive to have the campaign doing something like this rather than to use the modern months.
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Re: Palladium Calendar
It would take a lot of coincidences for the Palladium world to create an calendar that perfectly matches our own through independent means. Too many to be realistically possible. They would need beings with names similar enough to those Gods and Emperors that our months and days are named after that have achieved similar levels of renown that they would be commemorated in such a manner... at least in the eyes of the Church of Light and Dark that the Modern Palladium Calendar is based off of.
As for the Pantheon of Light and Dark... it isn't coincidence that they have Egyptian named gods... they ARE the same Pantheon worshiped in Egypt. Palladium is just one of the worlds that this Pantheon has followers on... and Earth was another. Now, while this may seem like a plausible connection to our world to allow our modern Calendar to appear in the Palladium world, it isn't that simple. First, our Calendar was created by the Romans... not the Egyptians. Second, by the time our Calendar was created, the Egyptian Pantheon was in sharp decline... and Egypt was becoming a vassal state to the Roman Empire. While many would continue to worship these Gods for some time, the Gods themselves had apparently moved on to other worlds by then.
More so, since the Pantheon of Light and Dark has been worshiped on thousands of worlds... many of which likely don't have the same mix of Pantheons as our world (Earth) does, it is far more likely that any Calendar they would use wouldn't be anything like ours. It would more likely be influenced by the Gods and Heroes of the Pantheon of Light and Dark. Why would they use the names of Gods, Heroes and Emperors from other Pantheons or nations? The simple answer is that they wouldn't. The would glorify themselves rather than Gods and Heroes of other Pantheons (and thus draw the attention of those Pantheons and potentially loose worshipers).
While there are similarities between nations on Palladium and ancient cultures of Earth... there are also stark differences too. The level of coincidence needed for the two worlds to come up with the exact same names for the days and months independent of each other is... to put it bluntly... unbelievable.
As for the Pantheon of Light and Dark... it isn't coincidence that they have Egyptian named gods... they ARE the same Pantheon worshiped in Egypt. Palladium is just one of the worlds that this Pantheon has followers on... and Earth was another. Now, while this may seem like a plausible connection to our world to allow our modern Calendar to appear in the Palladium world, it isn't that simple. First, our Calendar was created by the Romans... not the Egyptians. Second, by the time our Calendar was created, the Egyptian Pantheon was in sharp decline... and Egypt was becoming a vassal state to the Roman Empire. While many would continue to worship these Gods for some time, the Gods themselves had apparently moved on to other worlds by then.
More so, since the Pantheon of Light and Dark has been worshiped on thousands of worlds... many of which likely don't have the same mix of Pantheons as our world (Earth) does, it is far more likely that any Calendar they would use wouldn't be anything like ours. It would more likely be influenced by the Gods and Heroes of the Pantheon of Light and Dark. Why would they use the names of Gods, Heroes and Emperors from other Pantheons or nations? The simple answer is that they wouldn't. The would glorify themselves rather than Gods and Heroes of other Pantheons (and thus draw the attention of those Pantheons and potentially loose worshipers).
While there are similarities between nations on Palladium and ancient cultures of Earth... there are also stark differences too. The level of coincidence needed for the two worlds to come up with the exact same names for the days and months independent of each other is... to put it bluntly... unbelievable.
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Re: Palladium Calendar
I think the reason is the simplest one.
Its a lot easier to use the calander and time system from our earth than to use a far more realistic new one.
This is the same reason that, for instance, the letters of the runic alphabet happen to be English.
Or that English is the most common language for worlds....to the point that linquistic puns in Palladium are all based on English....
...because it is something we already understand and get
I could say that something is happening at third bell, Firesday fourth in the month of Fimbul......
But my players will have to stop the immersion to look up the details.
OR I can say "the wedding is at 9AM, Wednesday the 23 of march." and then we continue gaming.
Its a lot easier to use the calander and time system from our earth than to use a far more realistic new one.
This is the same reason that, for instance, the letters of the runic alphabet happen to be English.
Or that English is the most common language for worlds....to the point that linquistic puns in Palladium are all based on English....
...because it is something we already understand and get
I could say that something is happening at third bell, Firesday fourth in the month of Fimbul......
But my players will have to stop the immersion to look up the details.
OR I can say "the wedding is at 9AM, Wednesday the 23 of march." and then we continue gaming.
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Re: Palladium Calendar
And then there are those people who see references to our world as taking them out of the fantasy that players are trying to immerse themselves into. They know that Palladium isn't Earth... and stating that it is March 15th on a world that shouldn't have a month known as March takes them out of the moment.
Simple isn't always better... and often something more plausible, while initially a little disruptive, actually allows a game to feel more like the fantasy people expect over time. Sure... the first few times it will slow things down as players are unfamiliar with the local convention, but most players tend to get a handle on these things fairly quickly. They learn the order of months and how they relate to the seasons (most don't bother with trying to translate a given date in game with ours... there really is no point in doing so).
Another interesting point that should be brought up is the year... what year is it? Sure... most nations likely have a year count from when their nation was founded... but since the calendar is based off of the one used by the Church of Light and Dark, what year do they claim it is (likely since the current version of the church was founded... but when was that)? We know that the Pantheon of Light and Dark has been worshiped for a very long time... many of the Pantheon's Gods helped fight the Old Ones over 100,000 years ago. We also know that the Pantheon was worshiped during the Age of Elves... but did the church come through the Elf-Dwarf War and the Millennium of Purification intact enough to keep the year date they had then? Or were they, like many others, scattered by the war and only with the rise of the human nations become organized and unified once more? Given the opportunistic nature of the Gods of Taut, it is likely that their followers took advantage of the Elf-Dwarf war to lessen the influence of the Church of Light... and vise versa.
I would posit that while the church may have records that date back to before the War, they probably started a new year count with the rise of the first major human nation... the Western Empire. The main reason is that with the turmoil from the War and the Millennium of Purification that followed, people would have been more concerned with survival (both from the combatants and the monster races that took advantage of the chaos that followed) than with documenting things like years. It wouldn't be until a new nation could establish some level of stability that the Church would have time to return to things like tracking dates and years once more... and may not have an accurate idea of how many years had passed since the last confirmed year count. This would mean that the current year is likely seen as somewhere between 5800 and 6000 (depending on whether the church started counting from when the Western Empire began to rise or when they formally declared their sovereignty).
Simple isn't always better... and often something more plausible, while initially a little disruptive, actually allows a game to feel more like the fantasy people expect over time. Sure... the first few times it will slow things down as players are unfamiliar with the local convention, but most players tend to get a handle on these things fairly quickly. They learn the order of months and how they relate to the seasons (most don't bother with trying to translate a given date in game with ours... there really is no point in doing so).
Another interesting point that should be brought up is the year... what year is it? Sure... most nations likely have a year count from when their nation was founded... but since the calendar is based off of the one used by the Church of Light and Dark, what year do they claim it is (likely since the current version of the church was founded... but when was that)? We know that the Pantheon of Light and Dark has been worshiped for a very long time... many of the Pantheon's Gods helped fight the Old Ones over 100,000 years ago. We also know that the Pantheon was worshiped during the Age of Elves... but did the church come through the Elf-Dwarf War and the Millennium of Purification intact enough to keep the year date they had then? Or were they, like many others, scattered by the war and only with the rise of the human nations become organized and unified once more? Given the opportunistic nature of the Gods of Taut, it is likely that their followers took advantage of the Elf-Dwarf war to lessen the influence of the Church of Light... and vise versa.
I would posit that while the church may have records that date back to before the War, they probably started a new year count with the rise of the first major human nation... the Western Empire. The main reason is that with the turmoil from the War and the Millennium of Purification that followed, people would have been more concerned with survival (both from the combatants and the monster races that took advantage of the chaos that followed) than with documenting things like years. It wouldn't be until a new nation could establish some level of stability that the Church would have time to return to things like tracking dates and years once more... and may not have an accurate idea of how many years had passed since the last confirmed year count. This would mean that the current year is likely seen as somewhere between 5800 and 6000 (depending on whether the church started counting from when the Western Empire began to rise or when they formally declared their sovereignty).
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Re: Palladium Calendar
Razorwing wrote:It would take a lot of coincidences for the Palladium world to create an calendar that perfectly matches our own through independent means. Too many to be realistically possible. They would need beings with names similar enough to those Gods and Emperors that our months and days are named after that have achieved similar levels of renown that they would be commemorated in such a manner... at least in the eyes of the Church of Light and Dark that the Modern Palladium Calendar is based off of.
Oh I agree that it would take a lot of coincidences, the thing is there are already areas where we have other coincidences on a mass scale that probably involve far more than the 19 or so it would take to duplicate the Julian/Gregorian Calander. How many coincidences are required for the Wolfen to have "similar garb, weaponry and military tactics" of the ancient Romans? How many other coincidences exist, percentage wise 19 out of X number may not be significant overall.
Getting names close to a god/emperor (or other commemorative person) I don't think is all that unbelievable when you consider how many minor players there are in the PoL&D that aren't given names, but who could have earned the place on the calendar, but haven't done much since then relegating them to continued minor status. There are hundreds of such minor players to draw from for the 19 names origins just at the pantheon level, they could also draw additional ones from mortals (saints, pontiffs, etc) which puts the available pool even higher.
Ancient Egyptian Calendar was 365days long and had 12 months (weeks are 10days long, not 7), which is what the PoL&D should use as they are supposedly the same pantheon. So already parts of the Gregorian/Julian calendar are hardly unique, though aside from names they do have their differences (ex length of week).
It is also possible that PoL&D might be commemorating the Roman/Norse pantheon(s) performed for action(s) that would be a major-epic event, one obviously to make them acknowledge/honor another pantheon like this. Though an event of this nature would surely have been mentioned somewhere else, though some religions do adopt aspects from others (Christian Religion, and others who use the Gregorian calender, use Roman/Norse pantheon names for ex.)
Re: Palladium Calendar
The similarities between the Wolfen and Roman Empires is not quite as big as you think. Yes they have similar styles of government (at least in regards to the Roman Senate before the first Emperor was crowned)... which is not that surprising given how the Wolfen came to it (a bunch of separate tribes that had gotten tired of the constant warfare between them and worked on a way they could all get along without sacrificing who they were... not unlike how the different states in America get along without sacrificing all of their unique individuality). As for the weapons and armor... those have existed on Palladium for quite some time... with the Wolfen using the most efficient combination for the way they fight... much like how the Roman Legions learned how to fight efficiently as their empire grew. It really doesn't take that long or is that much of a coincidence to figure out such basic tactics to become an effective fighting force.
The Wolfen Empire does have some major differences to the Roman Empire though... geographical location for instance. The Roman Empire was based out of a city state in a sub tropical environment... while the Wolfen Empire is in a much more northern location (something the Romans didn't have to deal with for some time). The sophistication of Wolfen Engineering is not quite equal to what the Romans had... mostly because their empire is still very young (just over half a century). Naval power is also a lot less than what the Romans had... and the ships they do have are more like those possessed by the Norse than the Romans. Then there is the major religions of the Wolfen Empire... specifically 3 major ones... the Northern Gods (which are more Norse-like), the Pantheon of Light and Dark (with Set having a major influence) and Dragonwright (due to the reverence the Wolfen give to dragons... and ice dragons in particular). While it may have been common for the Romans to let people worship the gods they wished in the lands they conquered (like it is with the Wolfen Empire), the majority of Romans paid homage to their own gods (The Roman equivalent to the Greek pantheon).
So, the fact that the Wolfen Empire has similarities to the Romans isn't as coincidental as they seem... but actually the result of logical choices (such as efficient weapons) and their own tendencies (to work with each other... a pack mentality if you will) that has resulted in a similar, yet very different culture.
By the time the Roman and Norse Cultures became dominant on Earth, the PoL&D was already fading... and even likely that their gods had already moved on. By the time the modern Calendar started on Earth, the pantheon was little more than isolated cults... hence the reason the Calendar has no months or days named after the Egyptian Gods... their influence in the area was too little to warrant such commemoration. Besides, the Pantheon was worshiped on many other worlds (at least a few of which where they were the exclusive gods there). Our own Calendar has changed many times in the 2000 years that we've been using it... changing names and even dates to suit the needs of those who were in power. Adding the names of the Norse Gods to some of the days was actually to help integrate those cultures that worshiped them into other societies (Roman and Christians who were gaining converts during their rise to power).
Simply put... it seems very hard to believe that the PoL&D would choose to use a Calendar developed on a world after they had abandoned it on another world where they are a major influence that doesn't commemorate them in any way... from the days of the week to the months of the year.
One thing I will admit is that the use of a 10 Day week does sound like an interesting idea. Hmmm... does it make more sense for Major gods to have days or months named after them?
The Wolfen Empire does have some major differences to the Roman Empire though... geographical location for instance. The Roman Empire was based out of a city state in a sub tropical environment... while the Wolfen Empire is in a much more northern location (something the Romans didn't have to deal with for some time). The sophistication of Wolfen Engineering is not quite equal to what the Romans had... mostly because their empire is still very young (just over half a century). Naval power is also a lot less than what the Romans had... and the ships they do have are more like those possessed by the Norse than the Romans. Then there is the major religions of the Wolfen Empire... specifically 3 major ones... the Northern Gods (which are more Norse-like), the Pantheon of Light and Dark (with Set having a major influence) and Dragonwright (due to the reverence the Wolfen give to dragons... and ice dragons in particular). While it may have been common for the Romans to let people worship the gods they wished in the lands they conquered (like it is with the Wolfen Empire), the majority of Romans paid homage to their own gods (The Roman equivalent to the Greek pantheon).
So, the fact that the Wolfen Empire has similarities to the Romans isn't as coincidental as they seem... but actually the result of logical choices (such as efficient weapons) and their own tendencies (to work with each other... a pack mentality if you will) that has resulted in a similar, yet very different culture.
By the time the Roman and Norse Cultures became dominant on Earth, the PoL&D was already fading... and even likely that their gods had already moved on. By the time the modern Calendar started on Earth, the pantheon was little more than isolated cults... hence the reason the Calendar has no months or days named after the Egyptian Gods... their influence in the area was too little to warrant such commemoration. Besides, the Pantheon was worshiped on many other worlds (at least a few of which where they were the exclusive gods there). Our own Calendar has changed many times in the 2000 years that we've been using it... changing names and even dates to suit the needs of those who were in power. Adding the names of the Norse Gods to some of the days was actually to help integrate those cultures that worshiped them into other societies (Roman and Christians who were gaining converts during their rise to power).
Simply put... it seems very hard to believe that the PoL&D would choose to use a Calendar developed on a world after they had abandoned it on another world where they are a major influence that doesn't commemorate them in any way... from the days of the week to the months of the year.
One thing I will admit is that the use of a 10 Day week does sound like an interesting idea. Hmmm... does it make more sense for Major gods to have days or months named after them?
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Re: Palladium Calendar
I hold that Palladium does not have a unified calendar; you've got several disparate groups of peoples, with little cultural connection to ensure that calendars remain the same.
I would divide the calendars broadly into:
The Western Calendar, favored, not surprisingly, by the Western Empire. Based on the old Elven Calendar, which comes from the PoL&D.
The Eastern Calendar, favored by Timiro and the Eastern Territories. Based on the old Dwarven Calendar, with big influence from the Dragonwright.
The Northern Calendar, favored by Bizantium and its colonies. Heavy influence from the Northern Pantheon.
The Wolfen/Druidic calendar. The favored calendar of the Wolfen Empire, based on the Druidic calendar.
The Southern Calendar, favored by Land of the South Winds. Heavy influence from the cults associated with Yin-Sloth's Pantheon. Similar calendars are found throughout the Yin-Sloth Jungle.
Now, given the significance of some astronomical events, there are points of agreement on the calendars... people track solstices, equinoxes, and moon cycles more or less the same way, and the calendars are in agreement on these things. But how long weeks are, or the importance of the moon in determining month-length (especially since there are not an equal number of moons in each year), or other such niceties, vary widely. I have the Western Empire favoring a seven-day week, while the old dwarven calendar had an eight-day week. The Western Calendar maps more closely to the moon, while the dwarves cared less about the moon in their underground kingdoms. The druidical calendar doesn't map months, only moons. The Southern Calendar doesn't recognize 4 seasons, only two... dry and rainy... and they count them from the equinoxes (with rainy starting in spring).
I simply don't see the Palladium world as being culturally united enough to have a single calendar, or having a broad enough communication network to make such a calendar an actual convenience for more than a handful of people.
I would divide the calendars broadly into:
The Western Calendar, favored, not surprisingly, by the Western Empire. Based on the old Elven Calendar, which comes from the PoL&D.
The Eastern Calendar, favored by Timiro and the Eastern Territories. Based on the old Dwarven Calendar, with big influence from the Dragonwright.
The Northern Calendar, favored by Bizantium and its colonies. Heavy influence from the Northern Pantheon.
The Wolfen/Druidic calendar. The favored calendar of the Wolfen Empire, based on the Druidic calendar.
The Southern Calendar, favored by Land of the South Winds. Heavy influence from the cults associated with Yin-Sloth's Pantheon. Similar calendars are found throughout the Yin-Sloth Jungle.
Now, given the significance of some astronomical events, there are points of agreement on the calendars... people track solstices, equinoxes, and moon cycles more or less the same way, and the calendars are in agreement on these things. But how long weeks are, or the importance of the moon in determining month-length (especially since there are not an equal number of moons in each year), or other such niceties, vary widely. I have the Western Empire favoring a seven-day week, while the old dwarven calendar had an eight-day week. The Western Calendar maps more closely to the moon, while the dwarves cared less about the moon in their underground kingdoms. The druidical calendar doesn't map months, only moons. The Southern Calendar doesn't recognize 4 seasons, only two... dry and rainy... and they count them from the equinoxes (with rainy starting in spring).
I simply don't see the Palladium world as being culturally united enough to have a single calendar, or having a broad enough communication network to make such a calendar an actual convenience for more than a handful of people.
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Re: Palladium Calendar
The Wolfen have huge similarities that are pretty implausible frankly.
They just 'happen' to have perfectly replicated roman weapons, armor, tactics, and naming conventions. Amazingly Wolfen is a Latin tongue since they use Latin extensively in their vocabulary.
Of course its totally impossible.
Just like literally the entire history and culture of the Palladium world is utterly impossible. I really don't get why the fuss over one of the tiniest least impossible issues when there is so much that fails any sort of 'reality check' or 'plausibility' check that its not even funny.....
I play PF because its fun. I also know that if I start to examine the setting logically it falls apart in an instant. Which is why I don't do that.
They just 'happen' to have perfectly replicated roman weapons, armor, tactics, and naming conventions. Amazingly Wolfen is a Latin tongue since they use Latin extensively in their vocabulary.
Of course its totally impossible.
Just like literally the entire history and culture of the Palladium world is utterly impossible. I really don't get why the fuss over one of the tiniest least impossible issues when there is so much that fails any sort of 'reality check' or 'plausibility' check that its not even funny.....
I play PF because its fun. I also know that if I start to examine the setting logically it falls apart in an instant. Which is why I don't do that.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Re: Palladium Calendar
@Razorwing
Yes there are similarities in the Wolfen Empire and ancient Earth Rome that are chalked up as coincidences, not to mention differences. Since we don't have a full accounting of the PoL&D deities there could be coincidently members with similar names to Roman/Norse or even mortals that are being honored, there is no requirement that the PoL&D have named a given month/weekday after the Roman/Norse individual, but that the names coincidently match up, and coincidences are something which Palladium world is full of.
Yes there are similarities in the Wolfen Empire and ancient Earth Rome that are chalked up as coincidences, not to mention differences. Since we don't have a full accounting of the PoL&D deities there could be coincidently members with similar names to Roman/Norse or even mortals that are being honored, there is no requirement that the PoL&D have named a given month/weekday after the Roman/Norse individual, but that the names coincidently match up, and coincidences are something which Palladium world is full of.
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Re: Palladium Calendar
Mark Hall wrote:I hold that Palladium does not have a unified calendar; you've got several disparate groups of peoples, with little cultural connection to ensure that calendars remain the same.
I would divide the calendars broadly into:
The Western Calendar, favored, not surprisingly, by the Western Empire. Based on the old Elven Calendar, which comes from the PoL&D.
The Eastern Calendar, favored by Timiro and the Eastern Territories. Based on the old Dwarven Calendar, with big influence from the Dragonwright.
The Northern Calendar, favored by Bizantium and its colonies. Heavy influence from the Northern Pantheon.
The Wolfen/Druidic calendar. The favored calendar of the Wolfen Empire, based on the Druidic calendar.
The Southern Calendar, favored by Land of the South Winds. Heavy influence from the cults associated with Yin-Sloth's Pantheon. Similar calendars are found throughout the Yin-Sloth Jungle.
Now, given the significance of some astronomical events, there are points of agreement on the calendars... people track solstices, equinoxes, and moon cycles more or less the same way, and the calendars are in agreement on these things. But how long weeks are, or the importance of the moon in determining month-length (especially since there are not an equal number of moons in each year), or other such niceties, vary widely. I have the Western Empire favoring a seven-day week, while the old dwarven calendar had an eight-day week. The Western Calendar maps more closely to the moon, while the dwarves cared less about the moon in their underground kingdoms. The druidical calendar doesn't map months, only moons. The Southern Calendar doesn't recognize 4 seasons, only two... dry and rainy... and they count them from the equinoxes (with rainy starting in spring).
I simply don't see the Palladium world as being culturally united enough to have a single calendar, or having a broad enough communication network to make such a calendar an actual convenience for more than a handful of people.
I really like these ideas Mark!
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kiralon: "...the best way to kill an old one is to crash a moon into it."
Temporal Wizard O.C.C. update 0.8 | Rifts random encounters
New Fire magic | New Temporal magic
Grim Gulf, the Nightlands version of Century Station
Let Chaos Magic flow in your campaigns.
kiralon: "...the best way to kill an old one is to crash a moon into it."
Temporal Wizard O.C.C. update 0.8 | Rifts random encounters
New Fire magic | New Temporal magic
Grim Gulf, the Nightlands version of Century Station
Let Chaos Magic flow in your campaigns.
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Re: Palladium Calendar
eliakon wrote:The Wolfen have huge similarities that are pretty implausible frankly.
They just 'happen' to have perfectly replicated roman weapons, armor, tactics, and naming conventions. Amazingly Wolfen is a Latin tongue since they use Latin extensively in their vocabulary.
Of course its totally impossible.
Just like literally the entire history and culture of the Palladium world is utterly impossible. I really don't get why the fuss over one of the tiniest least impossible issues when there is so much that fails any sort of 'reality check' or 'plausibility' check that its not even funny.....
I play PF because its fun. I also know that if I start to examine the setting logically it falls apart in an instant. Which is why I don't do that.
So, here's my take on it.
The original wolfen style (about a century ago) was what we'd think of as very "Nordic"... half-timbered houses with stone understories, high, peaked roofs, and lots of carved decoration on boards. You still see that in a lot of older buildings, and new buildings in traditionalist places. It's a very practical style for a northern nation with huge timber resources, and it ties in with my canon that Wolfen were originally Druidic, with the influence of the Northern Pantheon only arriving in the last three hundred years or so... those carvings and such represent the spirits that Druids hold to be ubiquitous.
The current, Imperial, wolfen style is Roman. I think the reasons why for that have yet to be written, but I like to think there's something of a feedback loop... Roman style is somewhat influenced by the foster mother of Romulus and Remus, a wolfen Iaga, whereas Wolfen style is counter-influenced by one of Rome's Lost Legions... my preference is some of those from Teutoburg. A Roman legion, lost in their Northern Wilderness, winds up in Palladium's Northern Wilderness, and teaches local wolfen about their way of life. As martial arts in America are frequently taught with Japanese or Chinese words, so to do Military and Republican thought in the Wolfen Empire get taught with Wolfen approximations of Latin. The Wolfen learned of a way of governance and war from the Legion, and expanded it to the rest of the Wolfen people. Rome endures, in fuzzy hands.
This involves a bit of time and dimension travel, obviously, but that's hardly unheard of in Palladium.
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When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
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- Veknironth
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Re: Palladium Calendar
Well, I'm very disappointed this thread doesn't discuss who would be pictured on the Palladium Calendar.
-Vek
"Yeah I know, not helpful."
-Vek
"Yeah I know, not helpful."
Re: Palladium Calendar
Veknironth wrote:Well, I'm very disappointed this thread doesn't discuss who would be pictured on the Palladium Calendar.
-Vek
"Yeah I know, not helpful."
Didn't one of the Rifters already go into this type of Horror?
However the only viable list of candidates would be the following Goddess:
Aco
Bennu
Epim
Heim
Hel
Isis
Lista
Rurga
Tolmet
The problem is that isn't enough to get all 12 months. The others I left off would be just terrible. Ippotomi, Apis and Amon I'm not even going to talk to you about if you want them on your swimsuit calendar.
- Veknironth
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Re: Palladium Calendar
Well, I didn't say a swimsuit calendar. That makes it a bit sexist.
-Vek
"I was thinking more of an important people calendar."
-Vek
"I was thinking more of an important people calendar."
- The Dark Elf
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Re: Palladium Calendar
Discussion like this make me laugh. Enjoying the read. So I'll throw some inspiration out there - what about underground dwellers. Do they measure passing of time (they still sleep so theres work time and rest time, IF they want to). How, why etc. And do they need the overground season to matter? Do they harvest etc?
Re: Palladium Calendar
Veknironth wrote:Well, I didn't say a swimsuit calendar. That makes it a bit sexist.
-Vek
"I was thinking more of an important people calendar."
But a swimsuit calendar would probably make em money,
The Hottest priestesses of Bennu
or the secretive priestesses of Aco
- Library Ogre
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Re: Palladium Calendar
The Dark Elf wrote:Discussion like this make me laugh. Enjoying the read. So I'll throw some inspiration out there - what about underground dwellers. Do they measure passing of time (they still sleep so theres work time and rest time, IF they want to). How, why etc. And do they need the overground season to matter? Do they harvest etc?
I addressed this, a little bit. Astronomical conjunctions still matter, especially when your best technology is magic, so even underground dwellers (like dwarves, and later, kobolds) would be interested in tracking them... even the daily bump for midday and midnight are going to be useful to SOMEONE, to say nothing of greater conjunctions.
-overproduced by Martin Hannett
When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
When I see someone "fisking" these days my first inclination is to think "That person doesn't have much to say, and says it in volume." -John Scalzi
Happiness is a long block list.
If you don't want to be vilified, don't act like a villain.
The Megaverse runs on vibes.
All Palladium Articles
Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
Re: Palladium Calendar
Greetings and Salutations. I said I might post again later, so here I am. I decided to do some work on this matter again. Revisiting the idea of Calendars in the Palladium World, I have some work done. This is still in progress (like three of them are only "notes," and I still need to do things like name the Wolfen months), but it's a start and can give an idea. Also, since I'm still working on them (done for the day and probably won't get back to it until next week) it's the perfect time to make adjustments if something doesn't make sense or could be improved. Have fun. Farewell and safe journeys for now.
Spoiler:
Living the Fantasy (fan website)
Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
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Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)
Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.
Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)
Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.
- mirithol
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Re: Palladium Calendar
Since we're referencing the Wolfen to ancient Rome, then it is possible that the Palladium World is in the future, and the first humans came from our earth. They carried with them our earthly calendar, it became tradition, and the reason why was lost over time. Why is January always January. Because my mother said so, and her mother, and her mother's mother back through time.
I think the debate is style over playability. Sure, it's more immersive to say it's the 1st of Elbar. I'm not sure that doesn't take the players out of the game as they pull out there notes to figure out what month Elbar is. Oh, you mean October - got it. Or you can say it's the first of Elbar, which is like October - which sort of defeats the point.
On the other hand, when I say it's the 1st of October, in their heads they reference the turning of the leaves, the coming harvest, chill winds blowing from the Icy Sea, Scarecrows and black cats, browns, reds, yellows and orange colors, etc.
I guess it will depend on the group.
Cheers,
Miri
p.s. Hey Glen (aka Reagren Wright) - why don't you put a calendar in the Lopan book to clear all of this up?
I think the debate is style over playability. Sure, it's more immersive to say it's the 1st of Elbar. I'm not sure that doesn't take the players out of the game as they pull out there notes to figure out what month Elbar is. Oh, you mean October - got it. Or you can say it's the first of Elbar, which is like October - which sort of defeats the point.
On the other hand, when I say it's the 1st of October, in their heads they reference the turning of the leaves, the coming harvest, chill winds blowing from the Icy Sea, Scarecrows and black cats, browns, reds, yellows and orange colors, etc.
I guess it will depend on the group.
Cheers,
Miri
p.s. Hey Glen (aka Reagren Wright) - why don't you put a calendar in the Lopan book to clear all of this up?
Re: Palladium Calendar
mirithol wrote:Since we're referencing the Wolfen to ancient Rome, then it is possible that the Palladium World is in the future, and the first humans came from our earth. They carried with them our earthly calendar, it became tradition, and the reason why was lost over time. Why is January always January. Because my mother said so, and her mother, and her mother's mother through time.
Greetings and Salutations. I'm not opposed to the theory, but other races existed on the Palladium World before humans. Not sure how that would tie in, but maybe it's like Planet of the Apes (original) so I guess still possible.
mirithol wrote:I think the debate is style over playability. Sure, it's more immersive to say it's the 1st of Elbar.
Agreed. Different play styles will have different preferences, and each group needs to decide which works best for them.
mirithol wrote:I'm not sure that doesn't take the players out of the game as they pull out there notes to figure out what month Elbar is. Oh, you mean October - got it. Or you can say it's the first of Elbar, which is like October - which sort of defeats the point.
In my experience, players won't care what the month is (unless they're on a time.table or something). If I say it's "The first of Elbar" or "October 1,“ neither will have a major impact. The date is probably more for atmosphere than anything, so might as well go the extra step.
If time is important, I'd be more inclined to say "It's the first of Elbar. You still have a month to reach your destination before it's too late." If, for example, I just said, "It's October 1st," I'd expect to still get the question, "When was the deadline again?" to follow (which defeats the point of using real world dates).
mirithol wrote:On the other hand, when I say it's the 1st of October, in their heads they reference the turning of the leaves, the coming harvest, chill winds blowing from the Icy Sea, Scarecrows and black cats, browns, reds, yellows and orange colors, etc.
See, I find that a DIFFERENT problem. October 1st doesn't necessarily mean that to me. Is the weather from Great Northern Wilderness (which could already be freezing) or Land of the South Winds (which is still hot and humid)? Oh, you mean the weather just like in Chicago? But then we could start saying that using Timiro is also disruptive of the immersion and we should just use Earth. Where to draw the line will vary.
As a G.M., I'd be more inclined to do something like: "It's the first of Elbar. The leaves are a rainbow of colors as they start to fall from the trees.There's a chill in the air and people are already starting to dress in their winter cloaks."
You may not know exactly what Elbar is, but you have the picture and the specifics aren't important. Meanwhile simply saying October (to me) doesn't make the scene clearer, nor does it paint the same picture.
Again, different experiences. This wasn't to argue or win, but I wanted to explain a view of it not breaking the illusion. Farewell and safe journeys.
Living the Fantasy (fan website)
Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)
Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.
Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)
Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.
- mirithol
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Re: Palladium Calendar
@ Prysus:
Greetings and Salutations. I'm not opposed to the theory, but other races existed on the Palladium World before humans.
Just a thought - not defending it or using in it. The Domination of Man may have made it the current calendar.
We play in the Northern Isles - so yes, atmosphere is important, the players know where they are and what October means. I clearly would expect my characters in the jungle to think of the season of fall. That's why I mentioned the Icy Seas. Yes, description is important, but October sets a tone for my group in the Pacific Northwest that I can embellish on.
I suppose you could describe the changing seasons and avoid calendars altogether.
My campaign uses a calendar as they are building a settlement, which takes time so we use a calendar.
I'm a big fan of using the pressure of time with countdown dice, sand timers to keep things moving.
Greetings and Salutations. I'm not opposed to the theory, but other races existed on the Palladium World before humans.
Just a thought - not defending it or using in it. The Domination of Man may have made it the current calendar.
We play in the Northern Isles - so yes, atmosphere is important, the players know where they are and what October means. I clearly would expect my characters in the jungle to think of the season of fall. That's why I mentioned the Icy Seas. Yes, description is important, but October sets a tone for my group in the Pacific Northwest that I can embellish on.
I suppose you could describe the changing seasons and avoid calendars altogether.
My campaign uses a calendar as they are building a settlement, which takes time so we use a calendar.
I'm a big fan of using the pressure of time with countdown dice, sand timers to keep things moving.
Re: Palladium Calendar
mirithol wrote:My campaign uses a calendar as they are building a settlement, which takes time so we use a calendar.
I'm a big fan of using the pressure of time with countdown dice, sand timers to keep things moving.
Greetings and Salutations. For the record, in that kind of situation, I can definitely see how and why using a familiar calendar would be beneficial. Farewell and safe journeys.
Living the Fantasy (fan website)
Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)
Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.
Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)
Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.
Re: Palladium Calendar
Greetings and Salutations. Meanwhile, for those who do like a little more flavor and a variety of calendars, this is where I stand now: http://www.prysus.com/calendar_pf.htm
Hope you enjoy. Farewell and safe journeys to all.
Hope you enjoy. Farewell and safe journeys to all.
Living the Fantasy (fan website)
Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)
Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.
Rifter #45; Of Bows & Arrows (Archery; expanding rules and abilities)
Rifter #52; From Ruins to Runes (Living Rune Weapons; playable characters and NPC)
Rifter #55; Home Away From Home (Quorian Culture; expanded from PF Book 9: Baalgor Wastelands)
Official PDF versions of Rifter #45, #52, and #55 can be found at DriveThruRPG.