Carpet of Adhesion vs. Size of the Behemoth

[Reagren Wright]

Okay here's the situation and all I'm looking for is a general consenus of the results.
A player casts Carpet of Adhesion on another player character and the orc he's
fighthing. Don't ask me why he did it, to hard to explain. Anyway on his next action
he cast Size of the Behemoth on the player charater. Well he's grows 20 feet (6 m)
tall. So what happens? He's bonded by magic to the carpet making it impossible for
him to move, yet his body grows 20 feet tall? I won't say what I as GM allowed to
happen, I'm curious as what the Megaverse thinks should have happened based on
Palladium books game mechanics, laws of physics, and/or suspension of disbelief. Let
the debate begin...

[Xar]

I would rule that the surface he is adhered too also grows.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The orc would still be stuck to the giant PC.

No, it would not draw and quarter the orc.

[zyanitevp]

The orc would still be stuck to the giant PC.

No, it would not draw and quarter the orc.

I agree with drewkitty

[The Dark Elf]

U cast carpet of adhesion on the floor underneath them both??

[Reagren Wright]

No the carpet was cast on both of them.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Speaking as a GM, when the mage (player) gets the idea of casting the CoA on a person (or animal) instead of on the ground or object, I would allow it and have the target(s) of the spell would get a saving throw: standard. And if there are more then one target to the spell they would need to be touching.
-------
Yes, I noticed that which is why I said what I said.

[Alrik Vas]

If it's cast ON THEM...how does that even work? What are they sticking to in that case? And if you target the spell, how do you target more than one person?

If you're just targeting the 10x10 they happen to be in, then the carpet is on the ground, they're standing on it. When the player is grown a few things can happen (and I'll give my vote among them).

the others have pointed out perfectly good solutions so far. I think that "PC grows, Orc remains stuck to PC" is viable. Though there is also the option that the PC grows "away" from the orc (becoming larger, but the direction of their growth doesn't touch the orc so their respective status does not change). Then there's the icky version, where both have feet stuck to the ground and the growing PC "steamrolls" the orc, dealing damage to him as a massive object pressing it's weight down.

I'm for the clean, nothing changes approach. Though it's possible the PC who is now much larger, may have issues with their feet as they were stuck in certain positions, and now they are much larger, taking up the same respective space. it might be...uncomfortable.

[The Dark Elf]

No the carpet was cast on both of them.

I wouldnt allow it.

[Killer Cyborg]

A big part of this issue is simply how one interprets the spell "Carpet of Adhesion."
Many people believe that it creates a literal, physical "carpet" that is like indestructible flypaper.
Other people believe that it simply makes existing materials super sticky, but of those people many think that it only affects a 10x10 area, not individual people.

So the answer to "what would happen if...." depends on the gaming group and the GM, and how they normally handle each spell in question.

[Xar]

Likewise, I assumed it had been cast on the ground. I would need to reread the spell description, but I would be disinclined to allow it to be cast on the surface of a person or creature. I'm in the flypaper camp.

[drewkitty ~..~]

If it's cast ON THEM...how does that even work? What are they sticking to in that case? And if you target the spell, how do you target more than one person?

snip...

The mage targets the person and if the person does not save vs Mage whatever they touch sticks to them.
So if they fall down they still can't get up cause they are stuck to the ground.

The stuff is sticking to them.

If targeting two, and they are touching, then it molds around them.

[Alrik Vas]

I disagree. If you target one, it wouldn't cause the second person to be sticky. If you target an area, then yes, anyone in it would have their feet stuck.

[Zer0 Kay]

So if you target a 10x10 area over their heads is CoA the type of stuff that is anchored in time and space and just sits there or is it a carpet of adhesive fibers that will descend and rest on anything beneath it?
If you target a person does it cover the person or go to his feet?
If you target a mech does it cover the mech or go to its feet?
Then if you cast it on the surface (road) of a bridge, in order to stop a vehicle, and that bridge is a support bridge rather than a suspension bridge by the logic that dictates that the spell would go to the mechs feet then instead of covering the bridge and stopping the car you instead catch some seaweed and fish at the bridges feet. If it does one and not the other than there is intent controlling the spell and intent can be changed.

As for what happens to the two
If you follow the feet only and CoA is supremely adhesive and unbreakable than the humans foot remains planted to the same maybe twelve inch spot... crushing his giant foot or ripping the skin as soon as it starts growing.

I'm of the mind that if your wearing boots and you get stuck on CoA, undo your boots and try to jump free, the magic does not permeate the whole body but only sticks to whatever is in contact with it. So the humans flesh is torn. IF it is cast between them and they get stuck to each other and then he grows then that part that is stuck on the human will tear from the carpet. The orc would be fine. The carpet does not stretch so the growth would not change it's size. Now, if CoAs (plural) were cast on to surfaces that do not stretch and then those surfaces were separated, then the orc would either be drawn a quartered or the flesh in contact with the CoA would be torn from the body.

Again it REALLY depends on how you interpret the spell.

[Reagren Wright]

Loving the debate guys The interpretation of the physics of this spell is the real hard part.
Have to have a one on one talk to Kevin about it to one day get the definitive stamp on it.

[Mouser13]

I know that people don't like the old FAQ. But it had a response would be he still stuck. They have a example of what happens if a person teleports away. Answers was he teleport but is still suck at the new location. So as long has part of the person is still stuck I would say he large size but is still suck.

[flatline]

It's a poorly described spell. Each GM is going to have to decide how they want to run it and then make those mechanics known to the players.

Time Slip and Talisman are other notable spells that require GM clarification.

[SittingBull]

I did away with Carpet of Adhesion and had a spell called Web, less headache.

[42dragon]

I have always ruled that the spell had to cast on a suitably large flat(ish) surface, but not directly under something. That way the players had to plan how to use it to get their enemies to step onto or be knocked onto the carpet of adhesion.

[SittingBull]

If I were to have a player who could use this spell again, as a GM, I would say the carpet goes under the 2 characters standing there. Never seen anything but headache from the sticky flypaper coating the characters as it falls to the ground. As to the character growing, he is going to grow, the carpet isn't going to stop that. So unless there is something about being bigger letting the big character get free quicker, then he's just bigger and still stuck. Except, if the carpet is small enough, he might just have one foot stuck now instead of two.

[Axelmania]

The least gruesome way to handle it would be to say that you are fixed in relation to your center of gravity so it stays fixed but your extremities can still expand.

It's not just growth spells that encounter this problem, 'shrink to 6 inches' could similarly rip you apart since your outer parts would want to stay apart while the parts tethering them shorten.

[ShadowLogan]

Okay here's the situation and all I'm looking for is a general consenus of the results.
A player casts Carpet of Adhesion on another player character and the orc he's
fighthing. Don't ask me why he did it, to hard to explain. Anyway on his next action
he cast Size of the Behemoth on the player charater. Well he's grows 20 feet (6 m)
tall. So what happens? He's bonded by magic to the carpet making it impossible for
him to move, yet his body grows 20 feet tall? I won't say what I as GM allowed to
happen, I'm curious as what the Megaverse thinks should have happened based on
Palladium books game mechanics, laws of physics, and/or suspension of disbelief. Let
the debate begin...

If CoA is cast on the player and not the ground, I do not see a problem. The Orc and the clothes he/she is stuck to tear away in one big chunck, since giant spell (as written) would destroy the PCs clothes as he grows in size. Now if the Orc is also attached to the PC via CoA by non-clothing in a single location, the Orc would just dangle, but if it was multiple locations either the magic would cancel out one of the spells or the magic effects both (though distributed) or the magic relocates the orc to same relative center position or the magic will temporarily "pocket" the Orc elsewhere. I might even roll randomly in that case.

If it's cast ON THEM...how does that even work? What are they sticking to in that case? And if you target the spell, how do you target more than one person?

"The carpet can be cast on a flour, table, wall, etc., or actually cast upon a person" & "and can alter the size and shape" (Rifts BoM pg99, IINM also found in RUE, RMB, and PF2E).

To answer your question, I think the carpet can essentially be thought of as "sliming" the target with the magic superglue. There does not appear to be any requirement that surface be flat, only 200ft^2 (18m^2).

[Marcethus]

With the spell targeting them specifically I would rule that even with the Growth spell cast on one of the affected persons they would still be under the effects of CoA. I interpret the spell when cast on a person as covering them with adhesion making them stick to the ground as well as whatever they are touching/holding due to the spells adhesiveness.

[ShadowHawk]

Okay here's the situation and all I'm looking for is a general consenus of the results.
A player casts Carpet of Adhesion on another player character and the orc he's
fighthing. Don't ask me why he did it, to hard to explain. Anyway on his next action
he cast Size of the Behemoth on the player charater. Well he's grows 20 feet (6 m)
tall. So what happens? He's bonded by magic to the carpet making it impossible for
him to move, yet his body grows 20 feet tall? I won't say what I as GM allowed to
happen, I'm curious as what the Megaverse thinks should have happened based on
Palladium books game mechanics, laws of physics, and/or suspension of disbelief. Let
the debate begin...

did he cast it on the characters or the ground?

[eliakon]

This is a good example of why in the interest of less headache I often simply remove this spell from my game.

I have had far to many ahhhh.... creative uses of this spell (this case study sounds familiar. I had a player that like to try and argue that it could be used to kill people via, more or less, whiplash by casting it in front of vehicles...)