Drink versus Eat

[Axelmania]

Bletherad has something different than soul-drinking rune weapons, Deathkiss and Tentac can 'eat' souls.

*Benefit: no savings throw versus magic to avoid
*Downside: only works when they kill you, can't be used to prematurely soul-suck you on a failed save when you have loads of HP left, also no damage multiplier to their attacks when the save is made

In both the case of the rune weapon and the minor deevil lord it says this prevents resurrection.

Is this the case like soul drinking where the soul is 'trapped' and needs to be freed to resurrect?

Like for example, if we could destroy Deathkiss (or convince it to release the soul) or kill Tentac (or convince it to release the soul, assuming you could communicaet with it) could a ressurection then be done?

Or do you think eating a soul destroys it, whereas drinking just traps it for potential later release?

[ShadowLogan]

Per the text description of soul drinking in PF2E main book, the "soul is lost forever", which would indicate you can not resurrect the soul. It isn't like Nxyla (in Rifts Psycape). The only "trapped" soul in Rune Weapons are the powering entity, and this includes Soul Drinkers.

So basically "eating" or "drinking" a soul aren't much different in the end result (lost soul), it is the intervening steps and might just be "lesser" and "greater" forms of the same power.

Now the "description" of the event like could change between the two. Where the drinker just sucks up the soul by drawing it to the blade, but an "eater" tears it away as if in the grips of a powerful jaw. That sort of think, in how you portray the act of drinking or eating the soul.

[Lukterran]

There is no difference between the powers for "eating" or "drinking" souls it is just wording. Basically the soul is lost and the person can not be resurrected.

[Library Ogre]

"It's unpleasantly like being drunk."
"What's so unpleasant about being drunk?"
"Ask a glass of water."

[Axelmania]

Per the text description of soul drinking in PF2E main book, the "soul is lost forever", which would indicate you can not resurrect the soul. It isn't like Nxyla (in Rifts Psycape). The only "trapped" soul in Rune Weapons are the powering entity, and this includes Soul Drinkers.

August 2007, Rifts Dimension Book 10: Hades page 66 describes the Soul Catchers' Soul Stealing power as "just like Rune Weapons that are Soul Drinkers" and having 2 options after capture: consume or hold. Even in the case of consumption it is lost but not destroyed.

March 2009, Rifts Dimension Book 11: Dyval page 213 revisits the concept of only trapping a soul inside a Soul Drinker temporarily and later being able to resurrect the soul in a replacement body.

February 2011, Armageddon Unlimited pages 18 and 57 also reiterate the idea of being rescued after falling victim to Soul Drinking. Page 68 even has a "Soul Saver" dedicated to counteracting it.

For decades the nature of soul drinking was pretty vague, but I think this makes it clear that 'drinking' is only sucking it up, but not necessarily destroying/metabolizing it. I'm not even sure if we should assume that soul-drinking fail save means your body dies. I think we always assumed that but I don't know if it ever got stated blatently. The rules on living in a soul-less state from a Soul Catcher are pretty interesting, and the lack of an insta-kill also helps to balance the gaming problems that can create.

[kiralon]

August 2007, Rifts Dimension Book 10: Hades page 66 describes the Soul Catchers' Soul Stealing power as "just like Rune Weapons that are Soul Drinkers" and having 2 options after capture: consume or hold. Even in the case of consumption it is lost but not destroyed.

March 2009, Rifts Dimension Book 11: Dyval page 213 revisits the concept of only trapping a soul inside a Soul Drinker temporarily and later being able to resurrect the soul in a replacement body.

February 2011, Armageddon Unlimited pages 18 and 57 also reiterate the idea of being rescued after falling victim to Soul Drinking. Page 68 even has a "Soul Saver" dedicated to counteracting it.

Id still stick with the idea of the soul being consumed and gone (and i do actually) as they are palladium books, otherwise my mind bolts from palladium mind mages would use the damage from rifts. The games are similar, but not enough for a rule book from rifts to override a palladium rulebook. If there wasn't a rule I'd think about it, but there is in this case.

But I also think story overrules rules as palladium is still a land of mystery, so if you have a cool plot about rescuing someone from a soul drinking sword I'd say go ahead and do it, but make it a one off thing.

[Axelmania]

Hades and Dyval were Palladium World dimensions before Rifts ever existed though.

[kiralon]

Hades and Dyval were Palladium World dimensions before Rifts ever existed though.

But the books are rifts books

[Axelmania]

It's both, just Rifts primarily.
"Crossover material includes the Palladium Fantasy Role-Playing Game®, Heroes UnlimitedP', and Rifts®"

"An epic crossover sourcebook for Rifts", Phase Worltf9, Heroes Unlimited", the Palladium Fantasy RPG"

[Lukterran]

Hades and Dyval were Palladium World dimensions before Rifts ever existed though.

But the books are rifts books

It was the biggest FU to Palladium Fantasy to fans making those dimensions books anything other than PF based source material. Hades and Dyval were solely in the realm of PF history and background and had very little to do with the Rifts universe. Hades is an hellish copy of the Palladium World for heaven sakes.

By the way the material out of those two books was weak. It made both places not come off terrifying or scary but as pathetic. I would be more scared to go to Rifts Africa than to Hades.

[kiralon]

Hades and Dyval were Palladium World dimensions before Rifts ever existed though.

But the books are rifts books

It was the biggest FU to Palladium Fantasy to fans making those dimensions books anything other than PF based source material. Hades and Dyval were solely in the realm of PF history and background and had very little to do with the Rifts universe. Hades is an hellish copy of the Palladium World for heaven sakes.

By the way the material out of those two books was weak. It made both places not come off terrifying or scary but as pathetic. I would be more scared to go to Rifts Africa than to Hades.

And I agree, I have my own version of hades and dyval, not that I have seen the hades and dyval books.
Rifts south America is a pretty scary place to take palladium characters to.

[Axelmania]

Africa is scary and Hades could be scarier but I am willing to allow this to become a "is Africa worse than Hades" thread if you'd state your reasons for thinking this.

[Lukterran]

Africa is scary and Hades could be scarier but I am willing to allow this to become a "is Africa worse than Hades" thread if you'd state your reasons for thinking this.

The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are scarier, more powerful, more epic and world shacking than anything else suggested in the Hades book. Plus the Africa book brought you the original nether beasts and was the original book to bring the necromancer class into the Palladium Megaverse. Originality and a real sense of danger and doom the Africa book presented to the reader.

Hades book was the same tired Rifts book format. The demon hordes are presented like Coalitions military units. Boring writing. The just ripped 80% of the material from PF lore. Very little of anything new. I think there was a handful of new demons added and soul weapons which a very similar to TK weapons.

Not to mention everything about the description and writing that complete failed to bring feeling of foreboding and danger of walking in the realm of the infernal. There was none of the feeling of evil, dark occult powers, the excruciating wickedness inflicted upon the mortals by the abhorrent fiends of that realm presented in the writing.

When reading a manuscript about Hades, you should grimace with fear and horrific anticipation at turning the next page and reading about what vile and unholy thing is described on paper. Yet I was left with the filling that any average 1st group of Rifts characters could walk around Hades in starting gear and have less dread and danger than would be present in many places on Rifts Earth.

Look at a 14-16th Century image of hell and that is the type of feeling that the Hades book should evoke after reading it.

[mirithol]

But I also think story overrules rules as palladium is still a land of mystery, so if you have a cool plot about rescuing someone from a soul drinking sword I'd say go ahead and do it, but make it a one off thing.

Agree with Kiralon. I like to go to the source: Elric and Stormbringer from Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion series. You can read all six in a weekend.

[Axelmania]

The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are scarier, more powerful, more epic and world shacking than anything else suggested in the Hades book.

An unchecked plague of Death Demons seems a lot scarier to me than the limited summons Apocalypse demons can do. Any Demon Lord, heck even a Demon Prince, scares me more than these guys put together, since they don't have deific powers.

Plus the Africa book brought you the original nether beasts and was the original book to bring the necromancer class into the Palladium Megaverse. Originality and a real sense of danger and doom the Africa book presented to the reader.

Necromancers are more cool than scary. Like a summon/shifter they were mostly impressive due to being able to co-opt greater supernatural beings' powers.

Hades book was the same tired Rifts book format. The demon hordes are presented like Coalitions military units. Boring writing. The just ripped 80% of the material from PF lore. Very little of anything new. I think there was a handful of new demons added and soul weapons which a very similar to TK weapons.

When you say "I would be more scared to go to Rifts Africa than to Hades" that speaks more about the threats you would face in the locations, not the originality of the material in the world book.

You can be less impressed with the source material but still acknowledge a place to be more dangerous. I don't think the MDC zombies that Death makes can keep up with Death Demons.

Not to mention everything about the description and writing that complete failed to bring feeling of foreboding and danger of walking in the realm of the infernal. There was none of the feeling of evil, dark occult powers, the excruciating wickedness inflicted upon the mortals by the abhorrent fiends of that realm presented in the writing.

Yet in terms of pure danger I'd say it's still more dangerous than Africa.

This is about the collective setting, this includes what we know of its rulers via Dragons and Gods and Pantheons of the Megaverse.

I was left with the filling that any average 1st group of Rifts characters could walk around Hades in starting gear and have less dread and danger than would be present in many places on Rifts Earth.

It may not live up to hell but I still think the threat level is bigger than facing the Horsemen. Individually yeah they can whup a Greater Demon and probably tie a Demon Prince but Demon Lords are just worse.

[Library Ogre]

The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are scarier, more powerful, more epic and world shacking than anything else suggested in the Hades book.

An unchecked plague of Death Demons seems a lot scarier to me than the limited summons Apocalypse demons can do. Any Demon Lord, heck even a Demon Prince, scares me more than these guys put together, since they don't have deific powers.

On that, I'd point out that they predate the creation of deific powers in the system. Since most AIs have deific powers, and they are counted as AIs, I would count it likely that they should be rewritten with deific powers.

[Axelmania]

I could see the unified apocalypse beast being an AI, but I thought individually they were more like Demon Lords...

Question is if they're the greater demon lords like in dragons and gods who have deifics at full or half, or the lesser demon lords in Bletherad who don't have any.

If Death had deific powers, would he also have deific perceptions so he could see what his witches are up to in Kingsdale? Or use deific powers through them to attack Kingsdale?