I can't find the price of silver bullets in Rifts anywhere... Is it even listed at some point?
Thanks for your help
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Mark Hall wrote:Y'all seem to assume that Palladium books are written with the same exacting precision with which they are analyzed. I think that is... ambitious.
Axelmania wrote:Pure silver should make a difference for some kinds of weapons. Like if we dealt with variant ammo (exploding, hollow point) where pieces would get lodged in a vampire, maybe impede their healing, more silver in the pieces should do better.
guardiandashi wrote:as a side point silver because its harder than lead, can work as a "cheap" armor piercing round, not that the bullet itself is cheap (due to the cost of the silver) but due to the fact that it doesn't deform as easily.
guardiandashi wrote:Axelmania wrote:Pure silver should make a difference for some kinds of weapons. Like if we dealt with variant ammo (exploding, hollow point) where pieces would get lodged in a vampire, maybe impede their healing, more silver in the pieces should do better.
as a side point silver because its harder than lead, can work as a "cheap" armor piercing round, not that the bullet itself is cheap (due to the cost of the silver) but due to the fact that it doesn't deform as easily.
Axelmania wrote:Pure silver should make a difference for some kinds of weapons. Like if we dealt with variant ammo (exploding, hollow point) where pieces would get lodged in a vampire, maybe impede their healing, more silver in the pieces should do better.
Axelmania wrote:Pure silver should make a difference for some kinds of weapons. Like if we dealt with variant ammo (exploding, hollow point) where pieces would get lodged in a vampire, maybe impede their healing, more silver in the pieces should do better.
Unfortunate Son wrote:guardiandashi wrote:as a side point silver because its harder than lead, can work as a "cheap" armor piercing round, not that the bullet itself is cheap (due to the cost of the silver) but due to the fact that it doesn't deform as easily.
Lol. 'Cept silver won't engage the rifle. Silver ammo is more then likely a powerball like round.
rat_bastard wrote:I believe the price is just double normal price.
Nekira Sudacne wrote:rat_bastard wrote:I believe the price is just double normal price.
Try several hundred times as much. they cost between 50-100 per bullet, compared to 15-50 per box of 100. demand and lack of ready supply have jacked the price of silver through the roof in rifts.
kaid wrote:Unfortunate Son wrote:guardiandashi wrote:as a side point silver because its harder than lead, can work as a "cheap" armor piercing round, not that the bullet itself is cheap (due to the cost of the silver) but due to the fact that it doesn't deform as easily.
Lol. 'Cept silver won't engage the rifle. Silver ammo is more then likely a powerball like round.
Yes unless you use some kind of sabot type round which would be doable silver bullets range/accuracy would be pretty terrible.
glitterboy2098 wrote:kaid wrote:Unfortunate Son wrote:guardiandashi wrote:as a side point silver because its harder than lead, can work as a "cheap" armor piercing round, not that the bullet itself is cheap (due to the cost of the silver) but due to the fact that it doesn't deform as easily.
Lol. 'Cept silver won't engage the rifle. Silver ammo is more then likely a powerball like round.
Yes unless you use some kind of sabot type round which would be doable silver bullets range/accuracy would be pretty terrible.
actually according to people who have made silver bullets, they work just like lead bullets ballistically. (i attended a seminar on them at a gaming convention a few years back. whole thing on silver bullet myths and the realities of making and using them)
the real problem is in the casting.. silver shrinks different in moulds than lead does, so you have to use special moulds, and it took them a bit of trial and error to figure out exactly how much extra space needed to get the right size of projectile. you also have to cool silver a bit differently than lead, or the resulting projectiles can end up with deformities or cracks.
ballistically speaking the projectiles work pretty much like lead does. it engages the rifling no problem (as mentioned, it is no worse than the copper or steel bullet casings around modern projectiles)
the only real difference is that they deform differently on impact. the harder metal means less mushrooming. almost none at all against regular flesh.
you can read a fair bit about their testing of silver bullets here: http://www.patriciabriggs.com/articles/ ... lets.shtml
glitterboy2098 wrote:you can read a fair bit about their testing of silver bullets here: http://www.patriciabriggs.com/articles/ ... lets.shtml
kaid wrote:Mythbusted!
As for price of silver rounds in game thats probably a GM call. It really depends heavily on the availability of silver and as silver is a precious metal on its own the price probably fluctuates a ton from location to location.
rat_bastard wrote:On page 112 of the GMG. it's 150 credits for 48 small arms rounds.
In merc ops page 100 wellington is charging 150-600 credits depending on caliber.
It appears highly subjective based on demand and location.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
eliakon wrote:Honestly the price of silver bullets has been different in each book it has been printed in.
One issue is that each author has their own ideas of what is the 'right' logistical balance of cost/utility/power. So each book is written with those assumptions. This results in stuff that can be super cheap in one book if an author doesn't feel its important, to the same thing being unbelievably expensive in another book who's author thinks it is very potent.
flatline wrote:If silver isn't available, Enchant Weapon: Minor can make 72 magic bullets per casting. I think magic bullets would be effective against most invulnerable monsters. Someone with their books might verify vampires and were-creatures for us.
flatline wrote:If silver isn't available, Enchant Weapon: Minor can make 72 magic bullets per casting. I think magic bullets would be effective against most invulnerable monsters. Someone with their books might verify vampires and were-creatures for us.
rat_bastard wrote:flatline wrote:If silver isn't available, Enchant Weapon: Minor can make 72 magic bullets per casting. I think magic bullets would be effective against most invulnerable monsters. Someone with their books might verify vampires and were-creatures for us.
That spell is between .5-1 million credits and extremely rare, and the damage per round is extremely low (2d6), silver bullets are cheaper, more effective and vastly more common.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
eliakon wrote:rat_bastard wrote:flatline wrote:If silver isn't available, Enchant Weapon: Minor can make 72 magic bullets per casting. I think magic bullets would be effective against most invulnerable monsters. Someone with their books might verify vampires and were-creatures for us.
That spell is between .5-1 million credits and extremely rare, and the damage per round is extremely low (2d6), silver bullets are cheaper, more effective and vastly more common.
I would say that a million credits for a 15th level spell is vastly underestimating the price....
and while you can make 72 bullets....you can only do it once every three months.
So we have a temporarily enchanted item (it lasts 1 month/level of caster) that does less damage, can be made in batches every three months, costs 400ppe to make, and requires a 15th level spell.....
I am hard pressed to think of any but the most specialized of situations in which this would be preferable to just getting some silver bullets.
Nekira Sudacne wrote:eliakon wrote:rat_bastard wrote:flatline wrote:If silver isn't available, Enchant Weapon: Minor can make 72 magic bullets per casting. I think magic bullets would be effective against most invulnerable monsters. Someone with their books might verify vampires and were-creatures for us.
That spell is between .5-1 million credits and extremely rare, and the damage per round is extremely low (2d6), silver bullets are cheaper, more effective and vastly more common.
I would say that a million credits for a 15th level spell is vastly underestimating the price....
and while you can make 72 bullets....you can only do it once every three months.
So we have a temporarily enchanted item (it lasts 1 month/level of caster) that does less damage, can be made in batches every three months, costs 400ppe to make, and requires a 15th level spell.....
I am hard pressed to think of any but the most specialized of situations in which this would be preferable to just getting some silver bullets.
500,000-1 million is the baseline price. 1 million is already on the upper end for a level 15 spell. sure the GM CAN say it's higher locally, but the average is still no more than a million.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
eliakon wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:eliakon wrote:rat_bastard wrote:flatline wrote:If silver isn't available, Enchant Weapon: Minor can make 72 magic bullets per casting. I think magic bullets would be effective against most invulnerable monsters. Someone with their books might verify vampires and were-creatures for us.
That spell is between .5-1 million credits and extremely rare, and the damage per round is extremely low (2d6), silver bullets are cheaper, more effective and vastly more common.
I would say that a million credits for a 15th level spell is vastly underestimating the price....
and while you can make 72 bullets....you can only do it once every three months.
So we have a temporarily enchanted item (it lasts 1 month/level of caster) that does less damage, can be made in batches every three months, costs 400ppe to make, and requires a 15th level spell.....
I am hard pressed to think of any but the most specialized of situations in which this would be preferable to just getting some silver bullets.
500,000-1 million is the baseline price. 1 million is already on the upper end for a level 15 spell. sure the GM CAN say it's higher locally, but the average is still no more than a million.
Assuming that one is willing to believe that there should be no difference between a level 10 spell and a level 15 one. (and don't forget to add the 10% mark up for being offensive). I see no reason why spells should not suffer from the same price issues as weapons. This isn't Final Fantasy where everything but the legendary Ultima spell is for sale in the right shop (airship and all side quests not withstanding)
And assuming you can even find someone to sell it in the first place.
Nekira Sudacne wrote:eliakon wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:eliakon wrote:rat_bastard wrote:That spell is between .5-1 million credits and extremely rare, and the damage per round is extremely low (2d6), silver bullets are cheaper, more effective and vastly more common.
I would say that a million credits for a 15th level spell is vastly underestimating the price....
and while you can make 72 bullets....you can only do it once every three months.
So we have a temporarily enchanted item (it lasts 1 month/level of caster) that does less damage, can be made in batches every three months, costs 400ppe to make, and requires a 15th level spell.....
I am hard pressed to think of any but the most specialized of situations in which this would be preferable to just getting some silver bullets.
500,000-1 million is the baseline price. 1 million is already on the upper end for a level 15 spell. sure the GM CAN say it's higher locally, but the average is still no more than a million.
Assuming that one is willing to believe that there should be no difference between a level 10 spell and a level 15 one. (and don't forget to add the 10% mark up for being offensive). I see no reason why spells should not suffer from the same price issues as weapons. This isn't Final Fantasy where everything but the legendary Ultima spell is for sale in the right shop (airship and all side quests not withstanding)
And assuming you can even find someone to sell it in the first place.
Why would finding someone wanting to sell them be so hard? Glitter Boys are more rare and arguably more powerful than most level 15 spells, but I havn't heard anyone argue that people simply refuse to sell them. There will always be some black marketeer who knows a guy who knows a guy who can get it to you for a reasonable markup. the same logic applys to high level magic.
Except not even then, as there are established, large mage guilds and universities that will teach magic for the listed prices. Magic is not some rare hoarded thing in Rifts. it's a commodity, bought, sold, and traded amoung practioners on a megaversal scale. So what if no one in X community knows the spell, or wants to sell it if they do. They probablly know someone more open (or at least more mercenary), and if all else fails, the big, major magic using communities (Lazlo, City of Brass, Kingsdale, Dweomer, Tolkeen if the game is set before the fall) should be assumed to have them available as a matter of course. and if all else fails Atlantis will sell anything for the right price.
The game assumes a market for spells exist, and puts many organizations in cannon that sell and teach spells as their primary means of income. This means that we can assume there are professional spell-teachers who are looking to teach people for the right price. You can argue that the cannon price is too low--that's a sepearte matter entirely. but the game makes very clear in a lot of books that magic is for sale, assuming you are willing to pay the price. the Market will eventually clear--meaning anyone wanting to buy a level 15 spell can do so, if they are willing to pay the market price.
Also...what price issues with weapons are you talking about?
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
eliakon wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:eliakon wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:
500,000-1 million is the baseline price. 1 million is already on the upper end for a level 15 spell. sure the GM CAN say it's higher locally, but the average is still no more than a million.
Assuming that one is willing to believe that there should be no difference between a level 10 spell and a level 15 one. (and don't forget to add the 10% mark up for being offensive). I see no reason why spells should not suffer from the same price issues as weapons. This isn't Final Fantasy where everything but the legendary Ultima spell is for sale in the right shop (airship and all side quests not withstanding)
And assuming you can even find someone to sell it in the first place.
Why would finding someone wanting to sell them be so hard? Glitter Boys are more rare and arguably more powerful than most level 15 spells, but I havn't heard anyone argue that people simply refuse to sell them. There will always be some black marketeer who knows a guy who knows a guy who can get it to you for a reasonable markup. the same logic applys to high level magic.
Except not even then, as there are established, large mage guilds and universities that will teach magic for the listed prices. Magic is not some rare hoarded thing in Rifts. it's a commodity, bought, sold, and traded amoung practioners on a megaversal scale. So what if no one in X community knows the spell, or wants to sell it if they do. They probablly know someone more open (or at least more mercenary), and if all else fails, the big, major magic using communities (Lazlo, City of Brass, Kingsdale, Dweomer, Tolkeen if the game is set before the fall) should be assumed to have them available as a matter of course. and if all else fails Atlantis will sell anything for the right price.
The game assumes a market for spells exist, and puts many organizations in cannon that sell and teach spells as their primary means of income. This means that we can assume there are professional spell-teachers who are looking to teach people for the right price. You can argue that the cannon price is too low--that's a sepearte matter entirely. but the game makes very clear in a lot of books that magic is for sale, assuming you are willing to pay the price. the Market will eventually clear--meaning anyone wanting to buy a level 15 spell can do so, if they are willing to pay the market price.
Also...what price issues with weapons are you talking about?
I think we may have different views on how the setting works then.
When I read the section saying that "rarely available for sale 10% chance" it means to me that it is rare. Yes it may be sold, if your lucky, and if you meet the approval of the seller. I would also point out that Atlantis doesn't sell to humans, though they will sell humans and even then everything is not available Splynn Dimensional Market is pretty explicit on making the point that no you can't just say "I go and buy it just because". Even they may not have what you want....or be willing to sell it to you.
And I also am of the opinion you can't just go down and buy a Glitter Boy either (unless your the NGR or FQ or the like)
There is a discussion in the GMG page 109-111 about weapons availability. In short....it explains that just because there is a nominal price tag next to something doesn't mean that everything is available just because the PCs want it. Nor that they should expect to be able to buy it for that much money, if with cash at all.
Nekira Sudacne wrote:eliakon wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:eliakon wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:
500,000-1 million is the baseline price. 1 million is already on the upper end for a level 15 spell. sure the GM CAN say it's higher locally, but the average is still no more than a million.
Assuming that one is willing to believe that there should be no difference between a level 10 spell and a level 15 one. (and don't forget to add the 10% mark up for being offensive). I see no reason why spells should not suffer from the same price issues as weapons. This isn't Final Fantasy where everything but the legendary Ultima spell is for sale in the right shop (airship and all side quests not withstanding)
And assuming you can even find someone to sell it in the first place.
Why would finding someone wanting to sell them be so hard? Glitter Boys are more rare and arguably more powerful than most level 15 spells, but I havn't heard anyone argue that people simply refuse to sell them. There will always be some black marketeer who knows a guy who knows a guy who can get it to you for a reasonable markup. the same logic applys to high level magic.
Except not even then, as there are established, large mage guilds and universities that will teach magic for the listed prices. Magic is not some rare hoarded thing in Rifts. it's a commodity, bought, sold, and traded amoung practioners on a megaversal scale. So what if no one in X community knows the spell, or wants to sell it if they do. They probablly know someone more open (or at least more mercenary), and if all else fails, the big, major magic using communities (Lazlo, City of Brass, Kingsdale, Dweomer, Tolkeen if the game is set before the fall) should be assumed to have them available as a matter of course. and if all else fails Atlantis will sell anything for the right price.
The game assumes a market for spells exist, and puts many organizations in cannon that sell and teach spells as their primary means of income. This means that we can assume there are professional spell-teachers who are looking to teach people for the right price. You can argue that the cannon price is too low--that's a sepearte matter entirely. but the game makes very clear in a lot of books that magic is for sale, assuming you are willing to pay the price. the Market will eventually clear--meaning anyone wanting to buy a level 15 spell can do so, if they are willing to pay the market price.
Also...what price issues with weapons are you talking about?
I think we may have different views on how the setting works then.
When I read the section saying that "rarely available for sale 10% chance" it means to me that it is rare. Yes it may be sold, if your lucky, and if you meet the approval of the seller. I would also point out that Atlantis doesn't sell to humans, though they will sell humans and even then everything is not available Splynn Dimensional Market is pretty explicit on making the point that no you can't just say "I go and buy it just because". Even they may not have what you want....or be willing to sell it to you.
And I also am of the opinion you can't just go down and buy a Glitter Boy either (unless your the NGR or FQ or the like)
There is a discussion in the GMG page 109-111 about weapons availability. In short....it explains that just because there is a nominal price tag next to something doesn't mean that everything is available just because the PCs want it. Nor that they should expect to be able to buy it for that much money, if with cash at all.
Actually it dosn't say that atlantis won't sell to humans, it says they are discriminated against and treated like second class citizens at best and slaves at worst. you can still wind up finding a seller, you just have to find merchants willing to sell to humans.
as for that GMG entry, yea, that's true, but that dosn't really address my point. It's in reference how different markets exist within Rifts Earth--you can't find, say, Armatech weapons easially or likely at all in the burbs because The Republic of Japan and Coalition states have no idea that each-other even exist, let alone have trade. Or you are more likely to find Triax goods in the NGR but not every gun shop in NA will have them, ect.
What i'm trying to say is "It's a big world with megaversal connetions, and a player can find a seller if they are willing to travel to where there is a market with people willing to sell. The GMG section mentions not having guns from south america readially available elsewhere. But if you travel TO south america, then they will be.
I'm saying that generally not much keeps players from going out of their way to find a market for a special purchase. For example, if the party mage wants to learn that spell, they can go make a special trip just to try to find someplace in the federation of magic where they can buy it--Every high magus knows it, one of them is going to be willing to teach for the right price. And that's just one possibility off the top of my head, and hardly the only place on earth where it could be learned.
You seem to be operating under the assumption that PC's are relatively stationary and might not find what they're looking for in their area. I'm saying PC's can go anywhere they want to go if they have the means to do so. If a party mage wants a high level spell, he can go looking for seller. The famous magic using cities are pretty well known, ONE of them has to have it available. just hop around the federation of magic you'll get lucky eventually. Or you'll get enslaved and/or killed--that's kind of risk you run traveling in Rifts Earth
Nekira Sudacne wrote:eliakon wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:eliakon wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:
500,000-1 million is the baseline price. 1 million is already on the upper end for a level 15 spell. sure the GM CAN say it's higher locally, but the average is still no more than a million.
Assuming that one is willing to believe that there should be no difference between a level 10 spell and a level 15 one. (and don't forget to add the 10% mark up for being offensive). I see no reason why spells should not suffer from the same price issues as weapons. This isn't Final Fantasy where everything but the legendary Ultima spell is for sale in the right shop (airship and all side quests not withstanding)
And assuming you can even find someone to sell it in the first place.
Why would finding someone wanting to sell them be so hard? Glitter Boys are more rare and arguably more powerful than most level 15 spells, but I havn't heard anyone argue that people simply refuse to sell them. There will always be some black marketeer who knows a guy who knows a guy who can get it to you for a reasonable markup. the same logic applys to high level magic.
Except not even then, as there are established, large mage guilds and universities that will teach magic for the listed prices. Magic is not some rare hoarded thing in Rifts. it's a commodity, bought, sold, and traded amoung practioners on a megaversal scale. So what if no one in X community knows the spell, or wants to sell it if they do. They probablly know someone more open (or at least more mercenary), and if all else fails, the big, major magic using communities (Lazlo, City of Brass, Kingsdale, Dweomer, Tolkeen if the game is set before the fall) should be assumed to have them available as a matter of course. and if all else fails Atlantis will sell anything for the right price.
The game assumes a market for spells exist, and puts many organizations in cannon that sell and teach spells as their primary means of income. This means that we can assume there are professional spell-teachers who are looking to teach people for the right price. You can argue that the cannon price is too low--that's a sepearte matter entirely. but the game makes very clear in a lot of books that magic is for sale, assuming you are willing to pay the price. the Market will eventually clear--meaning anyone wanting to buy a level 15 spell can do so, if they are willing to pay the market price.
Also...what price issues with weapons are you talking about?
I think we may have different views on how the setting works then.
When I read the section saying that "rarely available for sale 10% chance" it means to me that it is rare. Yes it may be sold, if your lucky, and if you meet the approval of the seller. I would also point out that Atlantis doesn't sell to humans, though they will sell humans and even then everything is not available Splynn Dimensional Market is pretty explicit on making the point that no you can't just say "I go and buy it just because". Even they may not have what you want....or be willing to sell it to you.
And I also am of the opinion you can't just go down and buy a Glitter Boy either (unless your the NGR or FQ or the like)
There is a discussion in the GMG page 109-111 about weapons availability. In short....it explains that just because there is a nominal price tag next to something doesn't mean that everything is available just because the PCs want it. Nor that they should expect to be able to buy it for that much money, if with cash at all.
Actually it dosn't say that atlantis won't sell to humans, it says they are discriminated against and treated like second class citizens at best and slaves at worst. you can still wind up finding a seller, you just have to find merchants willing to sell to humans.
as for that GMG entry, yea, that's true, but that dosn't really address my point. It's in reference how different markets exist within Rifts Earth--you can't find, say, Armatech weapons easially or likely at all in the burbs because The Republic of Japan and Coalition states have no idea that each-other even exist, let alone have trade. Or you are more likely to find Triax goods in the NGR but not every gun shop in NA will have them, ect.
What i'm trying to say is "It's a big world with megaversal connetions, and a player can find a seller if they are willing to travel to where there is a market with people willing to sell. The GMG section mentions not having guns from south america readially available elsewhere. But if you travel TO south america, then they will be.
I'm saying that generally not much keeps players from going out of their way to find a market for a special purchase. For example, if the party mage wants to learn that spell, they can go make a special trip just to try to find someplace in the federation of magic where they can buy it--Every high magus knows it, one of them is going to be willing to teach for the right price. And that's just one possibility off the top of my head, and hardly the only place on earth where it could be learned.
You seem to be operating under the assumption that PC's are relatively stationary and might not find what they're looking for in their area. I'm saying PC's can go anywhere they want to go if they have the means to do so. If a party mage wants a high level spell, he can go looking for seller. The famous magic using cities are pretty well known, ONE of them has to have it available. just hop around the federation of magic you'll get lucky eventually. Or you'll get enslaved and/or killed--that's kind of risk you run traveling in Rifts Earth
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Blue_Lion wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:Actually it dosn't say that atlantis won't sell to humans, it says they are discriminated against and treated like second class citizens at best and slaves at worst. you can still wind up finding a seller, you just have to find merchants willing to sell to humans.
as for that GMG entry, yea, that's true, but that dosn't really address my point. It's in reference how different markets exist within Rifts Earth--you can't find, say, Armatech weapons easially or likely at all in the burbs because The Republic of Japan and Coalition states have no idea that each-other even exist, let alone have trade. Or you are more likely to find Triax goods in the NGR but not every gun shop in NA will have them, ect.
What i'm trying to say is "It's a big world with megaversal connetions, and a player can find a seller if they are willing to travel to where there is a market with people willing to sell. The GMG section mentions not having guns from south america readially available elsewhere. But if you travel TO south america, then they will be.
I'm saying that generally not much keeps players from going out of their way to find a market for a special purchase. For example, if the party mage wants to learn that spell, they can go make a special trip just to try to find someplace in the federation of magic where they can buy it--Every high magus knows it, one of them is going to be willing to teach for the right price. And that's just one possibility off the top of my head, and hardly the only place on earth where it could be learned.
You seem to be operating under the assumption that PC's are relatively stationary and might not find what they're looking for in their area. I'm saying PC's can go anywhere they want to go if they have the means to do so. If a party mage wants a high level spell, he can go looking for seller. The famous magic using cities are pretty well known, ONE of them has to have it available. just hop around the federation of magic you'll get lucky eventually. Or you'll get enslaved and/or killed--that's kind of risk you run traveling in Rifts Earth
Every high magus may know it but by the books high level spells are hard to get a teacher for. it says so in the book about learning magic. If there is no known seller and you have to search for some hidden city and hope some one will break the taboo, in a monster filled world you would be more likely to die than find some one to teach you the spell.
eliakon wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:So if we are now wandering around Rifts Earth seeking out every mythical place to find people who may or may not exist (PCs don't have rule books to consult after all) to find someone that will eventually teach them a spell for 550,000+cr.....
How exactly is this easier than just buying some silver bullets?
I mean seriously....I can think of absolutely ZERO ways in which a group could quest to find a spell teacher....but NOT find any silver.
And with the High Magus example....
...."for the right price" is not the same as "book says 550,000 cr"....
That sounds a lot more like my "what the market will bear"
Nekira Sudacne wrote:Blue_Lion wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:Actually it dosn't say that atlantis won't sell to humans, it says they are discriminated against and treated like second class citizens at best and slaves at worst. you can still wind up finding a seller, you just have to find merchants willing to sell to humans.
as for that GMG entry, yea, that's true, but that dosn't really address my point. It's in reference how different markets exist within Rifts Earth--you can't find, say, Armatech weapons easially or likely at all in the burbs because The Republic of Japan and Coalition states have no idea that each-other even exist, let alone have trade. Or you are more likely to find Triax goods in the NGR but not every gun shop in NA will have them, ect.
What i'm trying to say is "It's a big world with megaversal connetions, and a player can find a seller if they are willing to travel to where there is a market with people willing to sell. The GMG section mentions not having guns from south america readially available elsewhere. But if you travel TO south america, then they will be.
I'm saying that generally not much keeps players from going out of their way to find a market for a special purchase. For example, if the party mage wants to learn that spell, they can go make a special trip just to try to find someplace in the federation of magic where they can buy it--Every high magus knows it, one of them is going to be willing to teach for the right price. And that's just one possibility off the top of my head, and hardly the only place on earth where it could be learned.
You seem to be operating under the assumption that PC's are relatively stationary and might not find what they're looking for in their area. I'm saying PC's can go anywhere they want to go if they have the means to do so. If a party mage wants a high level spell, he can go looking for seller. The famous magic using cities are pretty well known, ONE of them has to have it available. just hop around the federation of magic you'll get lucky eventually. Or you'll get enslaved and/or killed--that's kind of risk you run traveling in Rifts Earth
Every high magus may know it but by the books high level spells are hard to get a teacher for. it says so in the book about learning magic. If there is no known seller and you have to search for some hidden city and hope some one will break the taboo, in a monster filled world you would be more likely to die than find some one to teach you the spell.
I'm not sure how that's incompatible with anything I said. I said if you find the market, you can buy it. finding the market is your own problem.
Blue_Lion wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:Blue_Lion wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:Actually it dosn't say that atlantis won't sell to humans, it says they are discriminated against and treated like second class citizens at best and slaves at worst. you can still wind up finding a seller, you just have to find merchants willing to sell to humans.
as for that GMG entry, yea, that's true, but that dosn't really address my point. It's in reference how different markets exist within Rifts Earth--you can't find, say, Armatech weapons easially or likely at all in the burbs because The Republic of Japan and Coalition states have no idea that each-other even exist, let alone have trade. Or you are more likely to find Triax goods in the NGR but not every gun shop in NA will have them, ect.
What i'm trying to say is "It's a big world with megaversal connetions, and a player can find a seller if they are willing to travel to where there is a market with people willing to sell. The GMG section mentions not having guns from south america readially available elsewhere. But if you travel TO south america, then they will be.
I'm saying that generally not much keeps players from going out of their way to find a market for a special purchase. For example, if the party mage wants to learn that spell, they can go make a special trip just to try to find someplace in the federation of magic where they can buy it--Every high magus knows it, one of them is going to be willing to teach for the right price. And that's just one possibility off the top of my head, and hardly the only place on earth where it could be learned.
You seem to be operating under the assumption that PC's are relatively stationary and might not find what they're looking for in their area. I'm saying PC's can go anywhere they want to go if they have the means to do so. If a party mage wants a high level spell, he can go looking for seller. The famous magic using cities are pretty well known, ONE of them has to have it available. just hop around the federation of magic you'll get lucky eventually. Or you'll get enslaved and/or killed--that's kind of risk you run traveling in Rifts Earth
Every high magus may know it but by the books high level spells are hard to get a teacher for. it says so in the book about learning magic. If there is no known seller and you have to search for some hidden city and hope some one will break the taboo, in a monster filled world you would be more likely to die than find some one to teach you the spell.
I'm not sure how that's incompatible with anything I said. I said if you find the market, you can buy it. finding the market is your own problem.
Some things like high level spells do not have a market.
flatline wrote:Blue_Lion wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:Blue_Lion wrote:Nekira Sudacne wrote:Actually it dosn't say that atlantis won't sell to humans, it says they are discriminated against and treated like second class citizens at best and slaves at worst. you can still wind up finding a seller, you just have to find merchants willing to sell to humans.
as for that GMG entry, yea, that's true, but that dosn't really address my point. It's in reference how different markets exist within Rifts Earth--you can't find, say, Armatech weapons easially or likely at all in the burbs because The Republic of Japan and Coalition states have no idea that each-other even exist, let alone have trade. Or you are more likely to find Triax goods in the NGR but not every gun shop in NA will have them, ect.
What i'm trying to say is "It's a big world with megaversal connetions, and a player can find a seller if they are willing to travel to where there is a market with people willing to sell. The GMG section mentions not having guns from south america readially available elsewhere. But if you travel TO south america, then they will be.
I'm saying that generally not much keeps players from going out of their way to find a market for a special purchase. For example, if the party mage wants to learn that spell, they can go make a special trip just to try to find someplace in the federation of magic where they can buy it--Every high magus knows it, one of them is going to be willing to teach for the right price. And that's just one possibility off the top of my head, and hardly the only place on earth where it could be learned.
You seem to be operating under the assumption that PC's are relatively stationary and might not find what they're looking for in their area. I'm saying PC's can go anywhere they want to go if they have the means to do so. If a party mage wants a high level spell, he can go looking for seller. The famous magic using cities are pretty well known, ONE of them has to have it available. just hop around the federation of magic you'll get lucky eventually. Or you'll get enslaved and/or killed--that's kind of risk you run traveling in Rifts Earth
Every high magus may know it but by the books high level spells are hard to get a teacher for. it says so in the book about learning magic. If there is no known seller and you have to search for some hidden city and hope some one will break the taboo, in a monster filled world you would be more likely to die than find some one to teach you the spell.
I'm not sure how that's incompatible with anything I said. I said if you find the market, you can buy it. finding the market is your own problem.
Some things like high level spells do not have a market.
If there is supply and demand, then there is a potential for a market. Are you saying there is no demand or no supply?
Blue_Lion wrote:flatline wrote:If there is supply and demand, then there is a potential for a market. Are you saying there is no demand or no supply?
According to the book no one sells high level spells, they might allow you to pay to learn them if you do something good but bye the book no one sells them. So no supply.
flatline wrote:Blue_Lion wrote:flatline wrote:If there is supply and demand, then there is a potential for a market. Are you saying there is no demand or no supply?
According to the book no one sells high level spells, they might allow you to pay to learn them if you do something good but bye the book no one sells them. So no supply.
And does that make sense to you? Really?
If a 1st level Temporal Wizard can sell a 15th level spell for millions of $$$, why wouldn't he?
Shifters and the RUE LLW variant (can't remember the name) also have relatively easy access to high level spells. Why wouldn't they be willing to be set for life by selling that knowledge?
Also, look at the magic communities that have been detailed (and then, in some cases, destroyed). High level spells all over the place. How is this consistent with "no supply"?
It. Makes. No. Sense.
Blue_Lion wrote:flatline wrote:
If there is supply and demand, then there is a potential for a market. Are you saying there is no demand or no supply?
According to the book no one sells high level spells,[ they might allow you to pay to learn them if you do something good but bye the book no one sells them. So no supply.
Zer0 Kay wrote:Silver plated U rounds with a led ablative coating to make it "safe to handle". The led could pierce so it would peel from the exterior of the silver which then enters the body. Gee is the silver even necessary or do radio active rounds penetrate regardless. If your afraid the silver plating would shield the radiation... Only plate the conical part of the bullet and leave the rear that the casing is crimped onto exposed. Score it so it splits on penetration, after it sheers of the led coat and redirects all over, with a central penetrator that is silver plated at the tip and bare uranium the rest of the length.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."