Heart of Darkness + Wards/Circles

[The Beast]

Rifts DB12, page 190 has the above-mentioned spell. This spell allows the user to gain PPE and 5d6 spells from the victim of the spell. However the spell is a little unclear when it comes to wards and circle magic. I'm pretty sure that the PPE boost would still happen. Would the spell allow the user to steal 5d6 wards or circles (whichever the case may be) even though they aren't technically spells? On one hand one could say that since the spell states "spells" and not "wards" then you can't gain them. On the other hand, one could say that it doesn't specifically mention wards because they're from PFRPG and not Rifts and therefore wouldn't normally be thought about in a Rifts book, but the intent of the HoD spell is to steal the magic knowledge of its victim and therefore would still work as written, just with "wards/circles" in place of "spells."

[eliakon]

I would say it only steals spells.
If the magic knowledge is not spells (Wards, Circles, Potions, Blueprints, Dances, or the like) you don't get it. It is a spell itself after all, and it seems reasonable that it would only get certain kinds of knowledge (after all, it doesn't get you there skills, even 'magical' ones like Mystic Herbology, or TW Construction, or even Principles of Magic) so why should get it get other kinds of knowledge other than what it was designed for.

If it did steal a Ward, it wouldn't allow you to use it anymore than stealing a warlock spell would mean that you can cast that, or that stealing a priestly spell means you can cast it.

Knowing how to do one specific action and knowing all the peripheral information to allow that action to be used, and having the links and permissions to do the action are different things after all.

[ShadowLogan]

Rifts DB12, page 190 has the above-mentioned spell. This spell allows the user to gain PPE and 5d6 spells from the victim of the spell. However the spell is a little unclear when it comes to wards and circle magic. I'm pretty sure that the PPE boost would still happen. Would the spell allow the user to steal 5d6 wards or circles (whichever the case may be) even though they aren't technically spells? On one hand one could say that since the spell states "spells" and not "wards" then you can't gain them. On the other hand, one could say that it doesn't specifically mention wards because they're from PFRPG and not Rifts and therefore wouldn't normally be thought about in a Rifts book, but the intent of the HoD spell is to steal the magic knowledge of its victim and therefore would still work as written, just with "wards/circles" in place of "spells."

Shooting in the dark here (don't have DB12), but Wards and Circle Magic are closer to Rituals than Spells in operation I think. So unless "Rituals" are also included then I would have to say no. If rituals are allowed, Wards and Circles should be allowed, but the knowledge may be incomplete to the point of being unable to cast.

The reason I think they should be allowed is because there are items on the Wizard Invocation List that use Wards/ward-like (Mystic Alarm, Lifeward, Wards) and involve Circles (Circle of Flame, Circle of Travel, Protection Circle: Simple/Superior, Create Zombie/Golem). So a case could be made for them if Rituals are allowed. Now it is possible that the person stealing the knowledge could have incomplete knowledge (required components, "language" barrier, etc) resulting in them not be able to "cast" them. This though can be a slippery slope....

Because consider Elemental Magic and Priests, the caster (IIRC) doesn't actually know the spell being cast, but is channelling it from a higher power basically. So would this spell/ritual work on them or not? What about closely guarded magic types (like Rune and Tattoo), etc. So it might just be better to limit it.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The spell specifically states that priests can have their magic stolen. So I am guessing that it works on copying whatever magic the victim priest is able to cast when they are killed. This does possibly require the casting mage to set up a barrier that blocks the priest's god from sensing what is happening to his/her/it's priest. And thus blocking the deity from withdrawing the magic they have given to them.

As to what magics can be gained,…I would restrict it to invocations/invocation like magic.
Thus any form making of magic objects would be outside what can be stollen. As a divider between what magic can and cannot be stollen the magics that require skill rolls like Ward magic, Circle Magic, TWizardry, Line Drawing magic, Circle Magic, tattoo magic….and others.

However, intuitive magics like Chaos Magic, Laser magics, …etc… can be copied.

Chi Magic…requires the mage to have a control over their Chi. and thus might be un-copyable via this magic. Or the magic itself can be copied but the stealing mage could not make it work because they are missing ability required to control the Chi that would normally be used in the spell. This need to be looked at on a case by case basis because not all Chi Magic requires a Chi component to power the spell.

[eliakon]

I would say that a priest spell could be copied sure...
...but if you need a link to the god then your out of luck.

So if the priest knows Blinding Flash fine, you learn the magic words for it. But if it knows Make Weapon Holy, you can't cast it because even though you know the words, you don't have a connection to a god to provide the 'holy essence' that is needed to sanctify a holy weapon.