Hiding Tattoos

[Abadon Spectre]

I'm looking for a good way to hide Atlantean tattoos from detection. Clothing and makeup are obvious for hiding them visually, but what about hiding them from mystic detection?

The physical reactor psi implant with the nega-psychic powers would do it, but there's no guarantee you would get those specific powers.

Alter aura could lower his apparent level and PPE, but is not so useful against other detection powers.

I'd love to have a tattoo that makes all of the T-mans tattoos completely undetectable, but I'm bot sure how to design one.

Thoughts..?

[Bill]

You'd just need to replicate the Mask P.P.E. psionic power. Using the empathy & transmission tattoo as a model; it should cost 15 P.P.E. and last two minutes per level, providing the same protection as the psionic ability on RUE p.174. I think an eye stabbed by a dagger would be an appropriate design for the tattoo.

[RockJock]

What's your situation? A Monster Shaping tat doesn't hide the PPE, but can throw off being seen as magic tattoo user. Not great for hiding from say the Coalition, but can work in many places as a monster with decent PPE like a Brodkil blending into say Calgary.

[Abadon Spectre]

What's your situation? A Monster Shaping tat doesn't hide the PPE, but can throw off being seen as magic tattoo user. Not great for hiding from say the Coalition, but can work in many places as a monster with decent PPE like a Brodkil blending into say Calgary.

That is something I had not considered, but not really what I'm after.

Aside from being able to move around coalition turf with greater ease, there are simply just times when you don't want others to know what you are or are capable of.

[Abadon Spectre]

You'd just need to replicate the Mask P.P.E. psionic power. Using the empathy & transmission tattoo as a model; it should cost 15 P.P.E. and last two minutes per level, providing the same protection as the psionic ability on RUE p.174. I think an eye stabbed by a dagger would be an appropriate design for the tattoo.

Well if I'm designing it I might as well go for the gold.
How about...

MUZZLED DOG'S HEAD (Undetectable tattoos)
P.P.E. to activate: 20
Duration: 20 minutes per level of experience or until cancelled.
Power: When activated this tattoo renders all of the t-mans tattoos invisible to normal sight and undetectable by magic or psionic means. It also makes the t-man's P.P.E. levels seem to be in the normal range for a member of his race.
Drawback: When this tattoo is active the T-man may not make use of any tattoos or other magic (including the use of P.P.E. for circles and techno-wizard gadgets), and any such effects that are currently active will be deactivated by the use of this tattoo.
Note: Other than what is listed above, this has no effect on any abilities which are not based on magic and the t-man remains an MDC creature while this tattoo is active.

[Bill]

I would not approve it. It's out of step with similar powers, especially in the duration and the ability to use some of the character’s other powers while concealing himself. Your GM may be more lenient though.

[Abadon Spectre]

I would not approve it. It's out of step with similar powers, especially in the duration and the ability to use some of the character’s other powers while concealing himself. Your GM may be more lenient though.

Our current GM is very lenient and tends toward high powered games, but if I'm making something I much prefer for it to be something useful that won't make less lenient one cringe.

My first impulse was to completely disallow the use of any tattoos or other magic (including the use of P.P.E. for techno-wizard gadgets) while it was active. I think I'll adjust it accordingly, but it seems like it needs a notable prolonged duration to be effective.

What about halving the duration to fifteen minutes per level?

[Bill]

Thinking it through, 20 minutes is fine. The defensive powers are all over the place, from a minute to 30 minutes per level. Depending on your intent, the P.P.E. cost might be too high.

I think that's a complex decision that should be based on how much of a trade off being effectively invisible is to the character's ability to avoid trouble. At first level, the character would be burning around 20% of its P.P.E. reserve every 20 minutes; which would make it pretty important to avoid being caught and speed critical. By fifth level the cost is down to around 10% of the character's reserve for 100 minutes of concealment, making longer stealth operations possible while the power's cost is still significant. Beyond fifth level the cost compared to the duration will start to become negligible, but there you've got to weigh how frequently players will attain that level.

[Abadon Spectre]

Thinking it through, 20 minutes is fine. The defensive powers are all over the place, from a minute to 30 minutes per level. Depending on your intent, the P.P.E. cost might be too high.

I think that's a complex decision that should be based on how much of a trade off being effectively invisible is to the character's ability to avoid trouble. At first level, the character would be burning around 20% of its P.P.E. reserve every 20 minutes; which would make it pretty important to avoid being caught and speed critical. By fifth level the cost is down to around 10% of the character's reserve for 100 minutes of concealment, making longer stealth operations possible while the power's cost is still significant. Beyond fifth level the cost compared to the duration will start to become negligible, but there you've got to weigh how frequently players will attain that level.

On that note, I'll keep the duration and lower the PPE cost to twenty which should still be enough to give pause without being prohibitive.

I should probably add a note about t-man remaining an MDC creature while the tattoo is active.

I also have to wonder how this would affect an atlantean when his heritage tattoos couldn't be seen...

On an aesthetic note... I liked your idea for the tattoo description, but it seemed too close to the Blind tattoo for me. Does the muzzled dog (like a muzzled psi-hound) fit or have you got any other ideas?

[Bill]

On an aesthetic note... I liked your idea for the tattoo description, but it seemed too close to the Blind tattoo for me. Does the muzzled dog (like a muzzled psi-hound) fit or have you got any other ideas?

A face with a blindfold?

[drewkitty ~..~]

Alter Aura…..you change the aura of yourself to not be radiating magic.

For a more long lasting effect have a Artifact (NB:Nightlands) with the null aura or the false aura feature.

[Abadon Spectre]

Alter Aura…..you change the aura of yourself to not be radiating magic.

For a more long lasting effect have a Artifact (NB:Nightlands) with the null aura or the false aura feature.

Alter aura can be useful, but it requires being psionic and unless I'm misunderstanding it, I think it will only protect against detection by those who look at auras.

[drewkitty ~..~]

And most TAs are psychic.

If the magic is not active then AA will stop the magic aura of the Tat. from being seen/sensed because it is a part of the char's aura.

[Bill]

Alter aura (RUE, p166) specifies that it affects the appearance of the aura and that only those beings that can see and interpret the aura are misled, nothing more. It will not impair any other power or spell that detects magic, such as the inherent senses of dogboys or the spell sense magic.

[drewkitty ~..~]

sensing magic…
From RUE's Sense Magic psi power.
"…(human users of magic do not radiate magic energies until they call upon them.)"
They says that sensing magic is sensing active magic.
The Psi power text is essentially the same as the PF2 power text. And reads that can tell if something or someone is under a magic spell (active magic). But only if they can see that person or item can they pick them out.
(The text defines enchantment as being under a magic spell.)

From RUE's Dogboy sense psychic and magic energy.
"…specifically fellow psychics (I.S.P.) and magic energy (P.P.E. used in spell casting, in magic devices and large energy reserves in practitioners of magic and creatures of magic; 80 or more points.)"

They are sensing the PPE in the tw thing, mage or sn creatures.

With that TW things are undetectable when it isn't charged, it says that magic enchantments that are not active don't set off Sense Magic powers.

Since At. Tattoos are like TW items in that they don't store PPE inside of them, they would appear to just be tattoos. Nothing magic about them.

There a exception to the above.
Regular magic items, ones that are constant or have stored charges, or have 'times per day' are ether constantly active, or will have some sort of stored energy in them.


RUE's Sense Magic spell.
"Note: Men of Magic and most supernatural beings do NOT register as magic except when they are actually casting a spell/using magic."
The RUE text is a copy of the PF2 spell text.
(The text defines enchantment as being under a magic spell.)

--------
Conclusion, there is enough canon text to conclude that inactive enchantments cannot be sense via the psionic Sense Magic power and magic spell. And it is active magic is what the spell and power senses.

Note: it is not specifically said this way, and there is enough laxness in the writing to conclude the psi power and magic spell are more sensitive then the above conclusion.

Additionally that Dog Boys&Girls and Psi Stalkers can also sense mystic energy stored within a person or object.

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Question: was the "TW magic items can't be sensed when not charged with psychic energy." rule reprinted in RUE somewhere?

[Bill]

That relies on the interpretation that tattoos are like TW items and not permanent enchantments on the recipient. Because they make permanent alterations to the recipient, granting additional PPE and damage capacity as well as effects that can be activated, I consider tem the latter.

[drewkitty ~..~]

TW magic items are also perm. enchantments.

Yep they do alter the character they are giving too.

The question would be 'Are they continually active enchantments maintaining the changes or were the changes made when the tattoo was given to the char and the tattoo is just a TW-like enchantment that you pump PPE into to get out a magical effect?'

This is something only GMs can decide for their games.
Thou, most of the text talking about magic tattoos seam to point to to that it is just a TW-like enchantment.

[Bill]

I disagree that they are in any way TW-like. While the individual powers read like TW powers, the description of the tattoo process itself and the nature of the tattoos is nothing at all like them. The racial limitations, the physical and psychological ordeal, the ability of the tattoos to spontaneously reappear on transplanted skin all points to a permanent alteration of the spiritual being to me. Even more unlike TW items, a tattoo master doesn't need to know how to cast any spells (Chiang-Ku Dragons, WB3, p48) to create a tattoo. You are absolutely correct that it's a GM call though, like nearly everything else in Palladium RPGs.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Bill you might want to reread what I said. I see no arguments between what you and I are saying. But you keep saying it like there is a difference.

The way the text reads, incoperating the above text from the sense magic spell and power, the change as a one time event. The tattoo master applies the Tattoo and the subject is changed. Boom magic done. With the only magic radiating from the tattoo (or the char) when it is activated.

Yes, the aura of that char would be changed.
If they had more then 6 tattoos yes they would concidered SN or CoM.
But would they radiate active magic that could be sensed when inactive?…..no.

[Bill]

They do if they are the subject of an enchantment. That's the sticking point, Drew. I say they are.

[drewkitty ~..~]

In the both spell and power texts enchantment is defined as to be under an active spell . I do consider/think about what the words used mean and taking in the paragraph as a whole means. And that there is a '/' between 'enchantment' and 'under a magic spell' does mean they are talking about an object or person that has been put under the effects of an invocation/spell/active magic. Then later in the text they expound on how that the two sense magics can only sense mages, SN & CoM being if they are actively casting a spell.


That is why I have been phrasing what I have been saying the WAY I have been phrasing things. When you read the spell and power texts 'as a whole' are saying that they only sense active magic. And taking just one word out of that whole to use as the basis for something is taking that one word out of context.

Yes, I have been including how TW enchantments can't be sensed by sense magic when they have no stored PPE in them into the consideration about this idea. Why? Because it is part of the canon text. And if one inactive enchantment w/o any stored PPE is not sensed then other inactive enchantments are also not sensed when they have no power stored in them.

Even if T-man char is concidered a CoM because of the tattooes, still they are not sensed as magic because there is no active magic going on.

Note: DogGirls&Boys and Psi Stalkers "sense magics" are a different case from what the base Psi power and Magic spell can sense because the canon text says they are different.

[Bill]

Arguing the same point longer and louder isn't going to make it more convincing, Drew. I stand by my interpretation and you're welcome to use yours.

[drewkitty ~..~]

*shrugs*
I was just stating the "Whys", a.k.a. the supporting text, of the position.

[RockJock]

Two other left field ideas.

Psybiote partner with the Mask psychic powers.

What about something like he Deceiver crystal band from Island at the Edge of the World? It would require the character to have some level of psychic power, but seems in the realm. This sort of falls into the class with the NB Artifact, since it is a not a Rifts standard piece of kit.

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. There's a spell in Mercenary Adventures (the small, thin, white covered book) in the Combat Magic section (though the magic is used primarily by the Combat Mage and a few others, they can be learned by more including Ley Line Walkers). Page 17 has the Mystic Invisibility spell that should work for what you want. Even though a T-Man I'm guessing wouldn't be able to cast spells like that, the spell could be a good starting point to build from.

Also, since it's a spell that can be learned by others, that means it can be added to a Talisman. Or, potentially if a G.M. allows, an Amulet (though not on the list, it could be a considered protection of a sort ... like I said, if the G.M. allows). Farewell and safe journeys for now.