Is the Invid Regis as powerful as a Splugorth from Rifts?

[Armiger]

I'm getting back into the fine world of the Rifts, Robotech, etc. from Palladium after being out-of-touch since the late 90s or so.

I always considered the Robotech universe to be rather under-powered compared to the Rifts universe and whatnot but I was always curious about the Invid Regis; afaik Rifts Conversion Book 1 equates the Regis to a godlike entity that has some knowledge of the Rift phenomenon. Sorry, I am going back literally to the 90s for my information for Rifts; the last book I bought was CS War Campaign (World Book 12 or 13 iirc).

[drewkitty ~..~]

The RCB1 is the only book that would mention the Invid in relation to Rifts. This is due to PB excluding RT from the RCB1r book.

The Regis would be more powerful compared individually to splugorth. If the 6 to a dozen splugorth worked through their rivalries and all came against the Regis together they would swamp her.

Empire wise….about the same as with the above…..though it would only take two or three coming together. (@ New Gen force levels.)

[jaymz]

Also....if you "new" in ypur return...Robotech has seen a 2md edition and is not as "underpowered" as it used to be.

[Armiger]

Also....if you "new" in ypur return...Robotech has seen a 2md edition and is not as "underpowered" as it used to be.

I'm aware that there is a new iteration of the Robotech RPG that Palladium has put out but I haven't gotten any of the books yet. I've looked over the Shadow Chronicles book and I like what I saw. How many books have been done thus far?

[Armiger]

The RCB1 is the only book that would mention the Invid in relation to Rifts. This is due to PB excluding RT from the RCB1r book.

The Regis would be more powerful compared individually to splugorth. If the 6 to a dozen splugorth worked through their rivalries and all came against the Regis together they would swamp her.

Empire wise….about the same as with the above…..though it would only take two or three coming together. (@ New Gen force levels.)

So this would mean that the Regis, and I assume the Regent, would be the equivalent of a powerful alien intelligence from the Rifts universe? Interesting; if I remember the Robotech lore correctly the Regis and the Regent are essentially the female and male manifestations of a singular entity (i.e. the oversoul of the Invid race), although don't quote me as being canonical since I think this is a concept developed by Jack McKinney in his Robotech books.

[ShadowLogan]

Also....if you "new" in ypur return...Robotech has seen a 2md edition and is not as "underpowered" as it used to be.

I'm aware that there is a new iteration of the Robotech RPG that Palladium has put out but I haven't gotten any of the books yet. I've looked over the Shadow Chronicles book and I like what I saw. How many books have been done thus far?

6 Books to date:
Shadow Chronicles Main Book (full and manga size)
Macross Saga Sourcebook (originally just manga size, but later replaced by an updated full-size)
Masters Saga Sourcebook (originally just manga size, butt will be replaced shorted with an updated full-size)
New Generation Sourcebook (first full size)
Genesis Pits Sourcebook (full size, this book probably could have been broken down to be included with the NG book IMHO and maybe Marines)
UEEF Marines Sourcebook (full size, from what I've heard it has a lot of C&P that really isn't necessary)

& yes, the Regis/Regent could be classified as either Alien Intelligences or Gods by Rifts standard.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The RCB1 is the only book that would mention the Invid in relation to Rifts. This is due to PB excluding RT from the RCB1r book.

The Regis would be more powerful compared individually to splugorth. If the 6 to a dozen splugorth worked through their rivalries and all came against the Regis together they would swamp her.

Empire wise….about the same as with the above…..though it would only take two or three coming together. (@ New Gen force levels.)

So this would mean that the Regis, and I assume the Regent, would be the equivalent of a powerful alien intelligence from the Rifts universe? Interesting; if I remember the Robotech lore correctly the Regis and the Regent are essentially the female and male manifestations of a singular entity (i.e. the oversoul of the Invid race), although don't quote me as being canonical since I think this is a concept developed by Jack McKinney in his Robotech books.

Nope, Queen and King.
They are in psychic domination over their subjects. (not certain if this is point is in the books could someone provide ref.)
With the princes & princesses that the Regis ends up making, they are fully free and independent from the Regis's domination of the race. (IF taking the old RT novels into account, the Invid Scientists RCC (UEEF Marines book) are also free of this domination. But nothing in canon to indicate this.)

The Regent.
The differences between the old stats in RT1 and the RT2 tend to throw out nice plot curlicues and the phych-pofile that were introduced in the novels and would go wholly with just what is within the UEEF Marines book.

There is the gura-invid mutants (Genesis Pit book) that take a similar structure as to the rest of the invid with their paired leaders.

[glitterboy2098]

The Regent is basically a large, rather more intelligent than average Invid.

the Regis comes across as having godlike power.. but it is hard to determine whether that is innate power or "sufficiently advanced technology" being used. nor do we know what she looked like prior to her appearing as a humanoid at the end of the New Generation Saga. she may well have looked rather like the Regent originally, and just applied the human form to herself as part of her 'evolution' project (since she did adopt the human form as the ideal for the entire invid race)
ever appearance of her prior to the Battle of Reflex point is just as a voice seeming to come from elsewhere, or a display of glowing blobs and shadows changing forms to match the dialog, which could just be the equivalent of a hologram display.

[Armiger]

Shadow Chronicles Main Book (full and manga size)
Macross Saga Sourcebook (originally just manga size, but later replaced by an updated full-size)
Masters Saga Sourcebook (originally just manga size, butt will be replaced shorted with an updated full-size)
New Generation Sourcebook (first full size)
Genesis Pits Sourcebook (full size, this book probably could have been broken down to be included with the NG book IMHO and maybe Marines)
UEEF Marines Sourcebook (full size, from what I've heard it has a lot of C&P that really isn't necessary)

That's quite a number of books so far- and I'm assuming the mechanics are similar to or identical with the mechanics in the Rifts Ultimate Edition minus the things like magic and psionics?

& yes, the Regis/Regent could be classified as either Alien Intelligences or Gods by Rifts standard.

That's kind of what I figured, so basically on par with the heavy-hitters from the Rifts universe.

[Armiger]

Nope, Queen and King.
They are in psychic domination over their subjects. (not certain if this is point is in the books could someone provide ref.)
With the princes & princesses that the Regis ends up making, they are fully free and independent from the Regis's domination of the race. (IF taking the old RT novels into account, the Invid Scientists RCC (UEEF Marines book) are also free of this domination. But nothing in canon to indicate this.)

I think there's various levels of information on the Regent and Regis based on what sources you refer to: McKinney's novels (and he had some very weird notions when it came to the Invid and Protoculture iirc), comics, the cartoon itself, etc. I don't know what the official position is on what's canonical and what isn't.

As to Invid Princes and Princesses- Palladium finally made a character class for them? They kind of just winged it the original Invid Invasion book. And Invid Scientists... I remember one named, I think, Tesla from the Sentinels comics who was plotting to usurp the Regent.

The Regent.The differences between the old stats in RT1 and the RT2 tend to throw out nice plot curlicues and the phych-pofile that were introduced in the novels and would go wholly with just what is within the UEEF Marines book.

There is the gura-invid mutants (Genesis Pit book) that take a similar structure as to the rest of the invid with their paired leaders.

It sounds as if the entire period of the Pioneer Mission to Tirol with the SDF-3 and the later Sentinels storyline has been retconned to some degree! I'm really working with outdated information.

[Armiger]

The Regent is basically a large, rather more intelligent than average Invid.

the Regis comes across as having godlike power.. but it is hard to determine whether that is innate power or "sufficiently advanced technology" being used. nor do we know what she looked like prior to her appearing as a humanoid at the end of the New Generation Saga. she may well have looked rather like the Regent originally, and just applied the human form to herself as part of her 'evolution' project (since she did adopt the human form as the ideal for the entire invid race)
ever appearance of her prior to the Battle of Reflex point is just as a voice seeming to come from elsewhere, or a display of glowing blobs and shadows changing forms to match the dialog, which could just be the equivalent of a hologram display.

That's what I remember him as being- a bigger, tougher, smarter version of a stage four Invid who wanted to best the Robotech Masters by outfighting them- hence his obsession with technology (especially weapons technology). The Regis was more mystical and was obsessed with evolution and whatnot and from what I remember reading in one of the books was that she first took on a humanoid aspect when she met Zor (who seduced her, had his way with her and made off with the secrets of the Flower of Life- quite the lady's man it would seem).

[drewkitty ~..~]

I was quite comfortable with the PC to have a mystic quality to it & was disapointed to have that aspect taken out of the new edition. It did explain whys and wherefores about the how the the Robotechknowledgey could break the laws of physics so readily. Now it isn't even a suppressed FoL cell matrix.

Yah, the human stage Invid has two CC's Prince/Princess and Simulagent.


Yes, almost all of the whole REF's mission details were scraped and rewritten. Except for some genralized plot points.
-The SDF-3 left with the all the surviving Macross era cast.
-they switch places with the masters.
-they fought the Regent's invid hoard once they got there.
-the freed Tirol from the regent
-encountered the 'sentinal's' races while in the master's section of the galaxy.
- Edwards mutiny
-the eventual defeat of the Regent.

[Armiger]

I was quite comfortable with the PC to have a mystic quality to it & was disapointed to have that aspect taken out of the new edition. It did explain whys and wherefores about the how the the Robotechknowledgey could break the laws of physics so readily. Now it isn't even a suppressed FoL cell matrix.

I didn't mind it all; to me Protoculture-derived technology was, for lack of a better term, a bit of techno-wizardry and whatnot- a very useful deus et machina for explaining some of the weird aspects of the Robotech universe (transforming mecha, faster-than-light-travel, the fact that the SDF-1/Zor's battleship had a giant death-ray than not even the Zentraedi ships had, etc).

Yah, the human stage Invid has two CC's Prince/Princess and Simulagent.

This is interesting; sounds like an interesting character concept- a black noble of the Invid- especially if he or she does the unexpected: go rogue, side with Terrans, Zentraedi, etc. with the benevolent intention of replacing the Regis (or Regent). I was always fond of the anti-heroic characters ala Batman when I was a more active gamer.. Are the Genesis Pits and Invid experiments, i.e. Dusty Ayres, taken into account?

Yes, almost all of the whole REF's mission details were scraped and rewritten. Except for some genralized plot points.
-The SDF-3 left with the all the surviving Macross era cast.
-they switch places with the masters.
-they fought the Regent's invid hoard once they got there.
-the freed Tirol from the regent
-encountered the 'sentinal's' races while in the master's section of the galaxy.
- Edwards mutiny
-the eventual defeat of the Regent.

Sounds more or less about what I remember even down to the Edwards attempt at a coup. Iirc the old Sentinels comic line followed the general script of what was planned for the Sentinels fairly well and I specifically remember that the Regent and Breetai had a duel in which both of them died.

[glitterboy2098]

The difference is in the new canon:

the UEEF brought with it an entire fleet and large military force, not just the SDF-3.

They appear to have traveled to the master's empire via many smaller jumps with stops along the way. (not one super long jump)

they had to fight their way across part of the Master's Empire before they reached tyrol (as opposed to the old story's "tyrol first, rest after)

they reached the master's empire around 2025ish.. but the war with the Invid regent lasts until 2043. the sentinels worlds were only liberated after nearly two decades of fighting. (presumably it took several years to liberate each one fully)


and while we do not have any info on it yet, it is likely that the haydonites and "Haydon IV" had a smaller (or perhaps just a different) role in the story, given that they turned out to be the new enemy, instantly recognized by the invid Regis. (makes it unlikely that the Regent could occupy a haydonite homeworld without realizing that it belonged to the ancient genocidal bogeyman of his species)

[ShadowLogan]

That's quite a number of books so far- and I'm assuming the mechanics are similar to or identical with the mechanics in the Rifts Ultimate Edition minus the things like magic and psionics?

Mechanically it is similar to Rifts UE and 1E RT, don't get me wrong there are some things done differently and new, but mechanically Palladium RPGs tend to be very similar, with some setting tweaks (if any) and clarification/new stuff also happening.

I'm not sure if I'd consider that a large number of books. That is 6 books, once you toss out size-reprints is still far short of the ~13 (IINM) In First Edition.

That's kind of what I figured, so basically on par with the heavy-hitters from the Rifts universe.

I don't know if I'd put them on par with the heavey-hitters of Rifts, they might best be thought of as light weights considering their abilities.

I don't know what the official position is on what's canonical and what isn't.

Canonical is the 85ep Series, Shadow Chronicles OVA, Love Live Alive OVA, the Wildstorm comics.

For all practical purposes anything else is its own canon that may not agree with other aspects. What I mean is that the 1E RPG and 2E RPG are their own respective universes, so are the Mckinney novels, etc. However, HG lumps them into the singular heading of non-canon and leaves it at that.

the UEEF brought with it an entire fleet and large military force, not just the SDF-3.

To be fair though, the 1E RPG did have the SDF-3 as part of a fleet. So it depends on where you looked for information on the SDF-3 and how you might go about integrating the those sources. The Novels had the SDF-3 travel alone, the series did not by implication of Carpenter's ship being his home for 15years and it was part of the SDF-3 Pioneer Mission. I don't recall the OVA's implication of the SDF-3 travelling solo or part of a group, and I'm not familiar with the old comics.

[Armiger]

The difference is in the new canon:

the UEEF brought with it an entire fleet and large military force, not just the SDF-3.

They appear to have traveled to the master's empire via many smaller jumps with stops along the way. (not one super long jump)

they had to fight their way across part of the Master's Empire before they reached tyrol (as opposed to the old story's "tyrol first, rest after)

they reached the master's empire around 2025ish.. but the war with the Invid regent lasts until 2043. the sentinels worlds were only liberated after nearly two decades of fighting. (presumably it took several years to liberate each one fully)


and while we do not have any info on it yet, it is likely that the haydonites and "Haydon IV" had a smaller (or perhaps just a different) role in the story, given that they turned out to be the new enemy, instantly recognized by the invid Regis. (makes it unlikely that the Regent could occupy a haydonite homeworld without realizing that it belonged to the ancient genocidal bogeyman of his species)

Very interesting..

The SDF-3 by itself lacked the punch to conquer the heart of the Master's Empire, so I always assumed the RDF-REF expedition took along at least a fleet of escorts ala the old carrier task-forces from the Second World War and a heavy ground force (destroids, infantry, etc.) to occupy planets, bases, etc. I also seem to remember that Earth was re-fitting Zentraedi warships, that Breetai was put in charge of the Zentraedi allies and that they were gunning for a fight with the Masters.

I've seen the Shadow Chronicles (once) and was a bit gobsmacked that the Haydonites turned out to be turncoats- but it's a nice twist I have to admit. In the older chronology they were simply alien cyborgs/robots who acted as advisors to Admiral Hunter et al. whereas now they have taken on a more sinister aspect.

[Armiger]

Canonical is the 85ep Series, Shadow Chronicles OVA, Love Live Alive OVA, the Wildstorm comics.

For all practical purposes anything else is its own canon that may not agree with other aspects. What I mean is that the 1E RPG and 2E RPG are their own respective universes, so are the Mckinney novels, etc. However, HG lumps them into the singular heading of non-canon and leaves it at that.

Many levels of official and semi-official canon then, kind of like Star Wars.

[glitterboy2098]

more like Star Trek, actually.

you have the "definitely canon" list (mainly the shows and films), and the "not canon" of everything else, much of which doesn't even stay compatible with each other**.. there is very little straddling that line.

robotech is the same. HG's canon list is definite. everything else is not canon. only the new RPG falls into a grayer area, and that mainly because they decided to loosen up the reins a bit to allow addition of RPG specific original content. (which then backfired a bit in the UEEF marines book)




**the star trek novels have gotten better with this in the last decade and a half, but prior to that it was very hit or miss as to how well a given novel meshed with any other, much less the comics or the canon shows/films. and the recent improvement is only in books from a specific publisher that is working hard at it.

[guardiandashi]

its a little complicated from what I remember.

the Regent was the big bad "king" of the race and at least in the 1st edition writeup he was on par with a mid level god, before you add in his tech.
his main abilities seemed to involve using and controlling lots of invid to do what he wanted.
he did not seem to have a huge number of psionic/magic abilities other than when dealing with invid.
he was also "devolving" into more of an old school /pre zor "pure Invid"

the Regis was more of the queen /spiritual heart leader of the invid.
she had a lot more psychic/magical abilities and essentially the entire Invid race (other than the Regent) were her children.
one ability she was consistently working on was trying to "evolve" the race into "higher" beings.
If you look at the invid stage charts:
stage 1 was a sort of sluglike being that could only survive in a very specialized environment
stage 2 was a little more humanoid but still special environment

as you climb the stages they start looking more and more human until stage 5 can pass as a human or zentradi
as I remember it there is only 1 stage 6 invid (the regis herself) and she is constantly working to improve her race and eventually become the most evolved rase in the universe. she currently considers the human form to be about the highest physical evolved form.