interesting first OCCs for a Reformed Demon to pick

[Axelmania]

I guess in spirit of the boards the focus should be on MC and the core book...

Thinking more Megaversally though I am also interested in OCCs in any of Palladium's games which would be interesting first choices to pick.

Also if you can think of any ways to fast-track to level up to be able to change to that OCC since as far as I know there's no legal way to start as a former Reformed Demon.

Once you get the OCC you no longer remember or have to abide by the rules of hell, right? So you could become a Soul Harvester or something like that?

[Glistam]

That seems counter-intuitive. Part of the process of being a Reformed Demon is learning how to be good and do right, because that's what the character wants to do. And you need to walk on the side of good the entire time since, as a Reformed Demon, you are being watched just about 24/7. By the time you shed your demon-ness and fully embrace Humanity, you should have been "good" long enough for it to make a lasting impression upon your new Human life.

I wouldn't be opposed to a player playing a fully humanized reformed demon as a starting character, but I would limit their starting alignment to a good alignment and starting O.C.C.'s to those available only to good characters.

I would think that a Demon who wanted to harvest souls could have an easier time getting there by staying as a Demon.

I'm pretty sure that a Reformed Demon who makes his way through to the end and becomes Human has "won" and has beaten the rulers of Hell. Even though they probably can no longer directly affect him anymore, some of the more minor demons could still be petty enough to try and mess with him by screwing around with those around him. There's a lot of potential story fodder there.

[Marcethus]

That seems counter-intuitive. Part of the process of being a Reformed Demon is learning how to be good and do right, because that's what the character wants to do. And you need to walk on the side of good the entire time since, as a Reformed Demon, you are being watched just about 24/7. By the time you shed your demon-ness and fully embrace Humanity, you should have been "good" long enough for it to make a lasting impression upon your new Human life.

I wouldn't be opposed to a player playing a fully humanized reformed demon as a starting character, but I would limit their starting alignment to a good alignment and starting O.C.C.'s to those available only to good characters.

I would think that a Demon who wanted to harvest souls could have an easier time getting there by staying as a Demon.

I'm pretty sure that a Reformed Demon who makes his way through to the end and becomes Human has "won" and has beaten the rulers of Hell. Even though they probably can no longer directly affect him anymore, some of the more minor demons could still be petty enough to try and mess with him by screwing around with those around him. There's a lot of potential story fodder there.

I agree. I have always wanted to try and play out the Reformed Demon but I haven't ever been in a pure NSS/MC game so have never gotten the chance. It would be a hell of a roleplay challenge and sounds fun.

[Bill]

PhD the PhD education package from Heroes Unlimited would give the character many skills and a mundane career. I think the reformed demon has sufficient powers without adding more from another class.

[Axelmania]

By the time they become human they lose all their old powers though, all they have is 5 minor bonuses to attributes/saves. All kinds of human variants are better than this.

[Bill]

None are better and mundane.

[glitterboy2098]

Personally I'd be thinking in terms of theme. Like, he found religion and is now a monk or preacher. Or has become a demon hunter, using knowledge and mundane tools to try and redeem himself by protecting others. Etc.

[Axelmania]

What about in terms of "I am an evil demon and I am actually becoming human to seek greater power in the long run" as an initial motivation? What can humans do which demons cannot?

Dream Maker is one I can think of. Even if you were a demon with 'all psychic powers', bonuses aren't powers so you couldn't get their sweet dream combat bonuses. GM might split hairs over PCC vs OCC though (including banning some Mystic China classes, even ones which are clearly more magical than psychc in nature like the Immortalist, which fits well with the pursuit of enlightenment, despite the evil pic of Chaing-Six from Villains Unlimited)

Mostly human-only stuff would be the motivation... or maybe banned to supernatural beings since I'm guessing the Infernals would qualify a supernatural...

Like say if one traveled to Dweomer and wanted to be a Magus... the Three wouldn't train him since he's not mortal, so he has to become a mortal to gain that secret knowledge...

It would have to be pretty tasty for higher-ranking demons who knows magic to want to lose all their memories to pursue this new knowledge though.

[Marcethus]

I would never allow such a concept for a reformed demon. They are supposed to be truly trying to become a being of good. They have rejected all the ways of Hell. Including lust for more power. Besides which no demon that lusts for power would give up their demonic powers to go after things that were only available to 'mere mortals.' It is not how demons would think especially ones that remain evil.

[Glistam]

What about in terms of "I am an evil demon and I am actually becoming human to seek greater power in the long run" as an initial motivation?

No, I cannot envision such a scenario. A Demon will struggle to reduce all it's power to nothing in order to possibly gain some other power which will still be inferior to the power it had? Nonsense. Not in my game worlds.

[Nightmask]

What about in terms of "I am an evil demon and I am actually becoming human to seek greater power in the long run" as an initial motivation?

No, I cannot envision such a scenario. A Demon will struggle to reduce all it's power to nothing in order to possibly gain some other power which will still be inferior to the power it had? Nonsense. Not in my game worlds.

Got to agree, I can't see any logical argument for a demon to undergo the lengthy process of becoming a Reformed Demon and become human while trying to retain its evil nature to gain some kind of nebulous thing that humans have that demons don't thinking it will make them more powerful. It's giving up vast supernatural physical strength and durability, relative immortality, AND has to give up its contempt for weak mortals to even consider it in the first place while having to constantly avoid traps set for him to fail because if he slips up even once (and it'd be soooo much easier for one trying to continue being evil to do) he's almost certain to be dragged back to the Hells for endless punishment by the Yama Kings for setting a bad example that could result in other demons defecting.

[Axelmania]

I don't think a reformed demon necessarily has to want to become good. Seeking enlightenment is enough, and enlightened immortals can be selfish.

They just have to live by the code while they're still demonic.

The power humans can gain wouldn't necessarily be inferior to what they had as a demon, especially if they were just a lower-ranked one.

[Nightmask]

I don't think a reformed demon necessarily has to want to become good. Seeking enlightenment is enough, and enlightened immortals can be selfish.

They just have to live by the code while they're still demonic.

The power humans can gain wouldn't necessarily be inferior to what they had as a demon, especially if they were just a lower-ranked one.

Except seeking enlightenment includes giving up such desires as those that are evil have, and even the lowest-ranked demon is far more powerful than any human has since humans among other things are neither immortal or supernaturally strong and no evil being seeking power is going to give up immortality to become a weak, limited lifespan human. Only one seeking the benefits of being a decent human being go that route.

[Axelmania]

Humans have their own immortalities, Enlightenment being one. It doesn't require giving up a pursuit of power. The Immorts are powerful.

[Marcethus]

You have to look at it how a demon would. Anything not supernatural is going to appear to be weak compared to a demon's starting level of power. Regardless of the level of demon, lesser or greater. They have a differing world view. Besides which the Reformed Demon OCC is specifically set up for a demon that rejects its powers and evilness in order to become try and become human. It's not set up for a demon that merely seeks more power.

[Axelmania]

Demons can realize some humans are more powerful than they are though. If they are stuck in a rut (maybe they rolled minimal attributes on everything) and can't advance in rank, getting a chance to reroll everything through human rebirth and learn magic or something could be tempting. Maybe they know a human who became a master vampire or a demon knight

[Marcethus]

They wouldn't view such things as more powerful then a demon. They are after all very arrogant and believe that demon-kind is more powerful than any puny mortal. It's just how they are.

Any mortal that defeats a demon is always and forever more just a puny mortal who got lucky that one time. That is how demons think.

[Nightmask]

Demons can realize some humans are more powerful than they are though. If they are stuck in a rut (maybe they rolled minimal attributes on everything) and can't advance in rank, getting a chance to reroll everything through human rebirth and learn magic or something could be tempting. Maybe they know a human who became a master vampire or a demon knight

You're trying to justify something that just wouldn't happen, even the weakest demon thinks it's superior to any human and in truth has exceptional power even for the weak ones. They aren't going to try and become human for added power because that's an alien concept for these millenia old creatures nor would it give them added power they'd still be going down not up. Especially since they'd only have vague memories of their prior existence at best, even if by some insane stretch of the imagination one of them could complete the process while still retaining that evil desire and inclination they'd forget all of that and be just a human being free of those demonic thoughts and desires.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I will take the question to be "interesting char template' and say an HU:PU2 Human Immortal with no idea why all these demons are annoying him/her.

[Axelmania]

There are spells which can enslave demons, I think only those with IQ 3 weakness would be guaranteed to think ALL humans are inferior. They can recognize unique exceptions.

Particularly if they are of the lowest rank.

They might also want to be a 'big fish in a small pond' by trying humanity since they feel doomed to be the lowest rank in demonkind forever.

[Glistam]

There are spells which can enslave demons, I think only those with IQ 3 weakness would be guaranteed to think ALL humans are inferior. They can recognize unique exceptions.

Particularly if they are of the lowest rank.

They might also want to be a 'big fish in a small pond' by trying humanity since they feel doomed to be the lowest rank in demonkind forever.

I still don't agree with this but it's your game, you do as you wish. This would never fly in my game.

[Axelmania]

This is more about why we would or wouldn't allow the motives, not whether we do. Page 57 says it's realistic to begin playing as Abberrant or Anarchist aspiring to be better, "he would like to be Principled, Scrupulous or Taoist".

Scrupulous/Taoist don't prohibit you from seeking to advance your own power. Enlightened Immortals are typically anarchist/unprincipled (page 127) and enlightenment being sought, even if Toaism/Goodness is desired, I could see an Aberrent/Anarchist settling for Unprincipled. Yin Immortals are often principled,

Humans have plenty of selfish desires for power, it's not a guarantee that a demon who reforms enough to become human is necessarily going to become a perfect human free of desire. They can maintain a selfish desire for power all the way through.

The example of a good Taoist on page 8 has him stealing a jar of wine, so "never violate the law for personal gain" is pretty fast and loose. Apparently if you twist into "I'm violating the law to help teach my student a lesson by getting him in trouble for booze I stole" it's acceptable.

There are things humans can do which demons can't, and vulnerabilities demons have which humans lack, which could motivate them to want to become human to raise their status. They could be gullible into thinking that it is easy to seek immortality as a human and not see mortality as that big a hurdle to get over.