Full Conversion Borgs

[HarleeKnight]

This has probably been thought of before, but...

A Full Conversion 'Borg can power internal energy weapons using his own power source. They all state that they have unlimited payload on a full borg, so I figure it has to be a nuclear source. I can't find how long it will last though. Also, since they do have nuclear power sources, can they have an E-Clip Recharger installed?
Also, the Bionic Sourcebook has an aftermarket nuclear power source on page 108 that gives you unlimited payload and 11 years, but it seems rather pointless as a full borg can already do that.

[Marcethus]

I am not sure if I have ever seen the books say how long a cyborg's power source lasts. Japan might have that info but I am not sure. I do know that yes they can have an E-clip recharger attached to them. I think it's an option in Japan. Might be relisted in the Bionics Sourcebook.

[mercedogre]

theres a borg life span info in Coalition war machine, under retired borgs

[dragonfett]

theres a borg life span info in Coalition war machine, under retired borgs

But is that simply the lifespan of the power supply, or is that how long the organs connected to the cybernetic implants live for as long as it has a working power source?

[Nekira Sudacne]

This has probably been thought of before, but...

A Full Conversion 'Borg can power internal energy weapons using his own power source. They all state that they have unlimited payload on a full borg, so I figure it has to be a nuclear source. I can't find how long it will last though. Also, since they do have nuclear power sources, can they have an E-Clip Recharger installed?
Also, the Bionic Sourcebook has an aftermarket nuclear power source on page 108 that gives you unlimited payload and 11 years, but it seems rather pointless as a full borg can already do that.

Lifetime service of the borg, so 300 years, roughly. Yes that's hilariously longer than a robot or power armor cell, but consider that it has less mass to run, also that it'd be a horrific burden on Borg players to have to scrape up another 2 million every 10 years, when a lot of games will never get close to that amount. it'd basically turn them into a quasi-juicer, pay millions of dollars for a new power cell, or die as soon as it runs out. As a result, the game simply handwaves it and gives cyborgs a power supply that runs for the full lifetime of the brain using it.

Also, no, they cannot have an e-clip recharger installed, they also get penalties if they ever use more than one system at a time on it, sinse it's weaker than a standard power armor one. (You could have, say, one gun hooked up to it and a naruni force feild installed, but using the force feild and gun at once will give hte borg combat penalties for the stress on the system)

This is why supplementary E-clip ports are a feature: sinse you have penalties to run more than one system on the power supply, the auxilerly E-clips let you use more than one at a time: say run said naruni force feild off the e-clip port for a while while enjoying unlimited shots with your gun without penalties.

No particular reason is given in the book for any of that, it mostly seems like arbitrary game balance limits. The nuclear power cell has an indefinate lifetime so borg players never have to worry about scraping up a couple million for a replacement, but they're limited in how much they can use their nuclear supply compared to power armors in return.

[dragonfett]

This has probably been thought of before, but...

A Full Conversion 'Borg can power internal energy weapons using his own power source. They all state that they have unlimited payload on a full borg, so I figure it has to be a nuclear source. I can't find how long it will last though. Also, since they do have nuclear power sources, can they have an E-Clip Recharger installed?
Also, the Bionic Sourcebook has an aftermarket nuclear power source on page 108 that gives you unlimited payload and 11 years, but it seems rather pointless as a full borg can already do that.

Lifetime service of the borg, so 300 years, roughly. Yes that's hilariously longer than a robot or power armor cell, but consider that it has less mass to run, also that it'd be a horrific burden on Borg players to have to scrape up another 2 million every 10 years, when a lot of games will never get close to that amount. it'd basically turn them into a quasi-juicer, pay millions of dollars for a new power cell, or die as soon as it runs out. As a result, the game simply handwaves it and gives cyborgs a power supply that runs for the full lifetime of the brain using it.

Also, no, they cannot have an e-clip recharger installed, they also get penalties if they ever use more than one system at a time on it, sinse it's weaker than a standard power armor one. (You could have, say, one gun hooked up to it and a naruni force feild installed, but using the force feild and gun at once will give hte borg combat penalties for the stress on the system)

This is why supplementary E-clip ports are a feature: sinse you have penalties to run more than one system on the power supply, the auxilerly E-clips let you use more than one at a time: say run said naruni force feild off the e-clip port for a while while enjoying unlimited shots with your gun without penalties.

No particular reason is given in the book for any of that, it mostly seems like arbitrary game balance limits. The nuclear power cell has an indefinate lifetime so borg players never have to worry about scraping up a couple million for a replacement, but they're limited in how much they can use their nuclear supply compared to power armors in return.

Where does it talk about penalties for running more than one system off of the 'borg's power supply?

[Nekira Sudacne]

This has probably been thought of before, but...

A Full Conversion 'Borg can power internal energy weapons using his own power source. They all state that they have unlimited payload on a full borg, so I figure it has to be a nuclear source. I can't find how long it will last though. Also, since they do have nuclear power sources, can they have an E-Clip Recharger installed?
Also, the Bionic Sourcebook has an aftermarket nuclear power source on page 108 that gives you unlimited payload and 11 years, but it seems rather pointless as a full borg can already do that.

Lifetime service of the borg, so 300 years, roughly. Yes that's hilariously longer than a robot or power armor cell, but consider that it has less mass to run, also that it'd be a horrific burden on Borg players to have to scrape up another 2 million every 10 years, when a lot of games will never get close to that amount. it'd basically turn them into a quasi-juicer, pay millions of dollars for a new power cell, or die as soon as it runs out. As a result, the game simply handwaves it and gives cyborgs a power supply that runs for the full lifetime of the brain using it.

Also, no, they cannot have an e-clip recharger installed, they also get penalties if they ever use more than one system at a time on it, sinse it's weaker than a standard power armor one. (You could have, say, one gun hooked up to it and a naruni force feild installed, but using the force feild and gun at once will give hte borg combat penalties for the stress on the system)

This is why supplementary E-clip ports are a feature: sinse you have penalties to run more than one system on the power supply, the auxilerly E-clips let you use more than one at a time: say run said naruni force feild off the e-clip port for a while while enjoying unlimited shots with your gun without penalties.

No particular reason is given in the book for any of that, it mostly seems like arbitrary game balance limits. The nuclear power cell has an indefinate lifetime so borg players never have to worry about scraping up a couple million for a replacement, but they're limited in how much they can use their nuclear supply compared to power armors in return.

Where does it talk about penalties for running more than one system off of the 'borg's power supply?

Page 95, under "Link to power supply". after all hooking up your generator to a gun isn't free, you have to pay to have it done.

[dragonfett]

This has probably been thought of before, but...

A Full Conversion 'Borg can power internal energy weapons using his own power source. They all state that they have unlimited payload on a full borg, so I figure it has to be a nuclear source. I can't find how long it will last though. Also, since they do have nuclear power sources, can they have an E-Clip Recharger installed?
Also, the Bionic Sourcebook has an aftermarket nuclear power source on page 108 that gives you unlimited payload and 11 years, but it seems rather pointless as a full borg can already do that.

Lifetime service of the borg, so 300 years, roughly. Yes that's hilariously longer than a robot or power armor cell, but consider that it has less mass to run, also that it'd be a horrific burden on Borg players to have to scrape up another 2 million every 10 years, when a lot of games will never get close to that amount. it'd basically turn them into a quasi-juicer, pay millions of dollars for a new power cell, or die as soon as it runs out. As a result, the game simply handwaves it and gives cyborgs a power supply that runs for the full lifetime of the brain using it.

Also, no, they cannot have an e-clip recharger installed, they also get penalties if they ever use more than one system at a time on it, sinse it's weaker than a standard power armor one. (You could have, say, one gun hooked up to it and a naruni force feild installed, but using the force feild and gun at once will give hte borg combat penalties for the stress on the system)

This is why supplementary E-clip ports are a feature: sinse you have penalties to run more than one system on the power supply, the auxilerly E-clips let you use more than one at a time: say run said naruni force feild off the e-clip port for a while while enjoying unlimited shots with your gun without penalties.

No particular reason is given in the book for any of that, it mostly seems like arbitrary game balance limits. The nuclear power cell has an indefinate lifetime so borg players never have to worry about scraping up a couple million for a replacement, but they're limited in how much they can use their nuclear supply compared to power armors in return.

Where does it talk about penalties for running more than one system off of the 'borg's power supply?

Page 95, under "Link to power supply". after all hooking up your generator to a gun isn't free, you have to pay to have it done.

CWC or the Bionic Sourcebook?

[Nekira Sudacne]

This has probably been thought of before, but...

A Full Conversion 'Borg can power internal energy weapons using his own power source. They all state that they have unlimited payload on a full borg, so I figure it has to be a nuclear source. I can't find how long it will last though. Also, since they do have nuclear power sources, can they have an E-Clip Recharger installed?
Also, the Bionic Sourcebook has an aftermarket nuclear power source on page 108 that gives you unlimited payload and 11 years, but it seems rather pointless as a full borg can already do that.

Lifetime service of the borg, so 300 years, roughly. Yes that's hilariously longer than a robot or power armor cell, but consider that it has less mass to run, also that it'd be a horrific burden on Borg players to have to scrape up another 2 million every 10 years, when a lot of games will never get close to that amount. it'd basically turn them into a quasi-juicer, pay millions of dollars for a new power cell, or die as soon as it runs out. As a result, the game simply handwaves it and gives cyborgs a power supply that runs for the full lifetime of the brain using it.

Also, no, they cannot have an e-clip recharger installed, they also get penalties if they ever use more than one system at a time on it, sinse it's weaker than a standard power armor one. (You could have, say, one gun hooked up to it and a naruni force feild installed, but using the force feild and gun at once will give hte borg combat penalties for the stress on the system)

This is why supplementary E-clip ports are a feature: sinse you have penalties to run more than one system on the power supply, the auxilerly E-clips let you use more than one at a time: say run said naruni force feild off the e-clip port for a while while enjoying unlimited shots with your gun without penalties.

No particular reason is given in the book for any of that, it mostly seems like arbitrary game balance limits. The nuclear power cell has an indefinate lifetime so borg players never have to worry about scraping up a couple million for a replacement, but they're limited in how much they can use their nuclear supply compared to power armors in return.

Where does it talk about penalties for running more than one system off of the 'borg's power supply?

Page 95, under "Link to power supply". after all hooking up your generator to a gun isn't free, you have to pay to have it done.

CWC or the Bionic Sourcebook?

Bionics sourcebook

[kaid]

This has probably been thought of before, but...

A Full Conversion 'Borg can power internal energy weapons using his own power source. They all state that they have unlimited payload on a full borg, so I figure it has to be a nuclear source. I can't find how long it will last though. Also, since they do have nuclear power sources, can they have an E-Clip Recharger installed?
Also, the Bionic Sourcebook has an aftermarket nuclear power source on page 108 that gives you unlimited payload and 11 years, but it seems rather pointless as a full borg can already do that.

Lifetime service of the borg, so 300 years, roughly. Yes that's hilariously longer than a robot or power armor cell, but consider that it has less mass to run, also that it'd be a horrific burden on Borg players to have to scrape up another 2 million every 10 years, when a lot of games will never get close to that amount. it'd basically turn them into a quasi-juicer, pay millions of dollars for a new power cell, or die as soon as it runs out. As a result, the game simply handwaves it and gives cyborgs a power supply that runs for the full lifetime of the brain using it.

Also, no, they cannot have an e-clip recharger installed, they also get penalties if they ever use more than one system at a time on it, sinse it's weaker than a standard power armor one. (You could have, say, one gun hooked up to it and a naruni force feild installed, but using the force feild and gun at once will give hte borg combat penalties for the stress on the system)

This is why supplementary E-clip ports are a feature: sinse you have penalties to run more than one system on the power supply, the auxilerly E-clips let you use more than one at a time: say run said naruni force feild off the e-clip port for a while while enjoying unlimited shots with your gun without penalties.

No particular reason is given in the book for any of that, it mostly seems like arbitrary game balance limits. The nuclear power cell has an indefinate lifetime so borg players never have to worry about scraping up a couple million for a replacement, but they're limited in how much they can use their nuclear supply compared to power armors in return.

Where does it talk about penalties for running more than one system off of the 'borg's power supply?

Page 95, under "Link to power supply". after all hooking up your generator to a gun isn't free, you have to pay to have it done.

Yes borgs clearly have some long duration power cell/nuke battery but it also is different than what power armor uses. It seems to have a much more limited draw potential and running a lot of integrated weaponry drains the borg and applies penalties. This is why most borgs tend to use a lot of hand held weaponry or missile/munition based integrated weapons.

[dragonfett]

Bionics sourcebook

If I am reading that section correctly, then the 'Borg in question doesn't take penalties when he tries to run more than one weapon system off of his internal power supple, but rather when he runs any weapon systems off of the internal power supply, but the penalties only get more severe based on the length of the fire fight, not the number of weapons being fired off of the power supply.

[glitterboy2098]

i personally would assume the following:

Partial cyborgs use a system that extracts energy from the persons metabolism, in one way or another. (battery using stomach acid, chemical generator using sugars, something), so that they just need to adjust their diets a bit to add calories and the right chemicals.

Full conversion systems would have a low output nuclear source good for a couple decades (say, 30-40 years) before needing replaced. and a reserve battery/capacitor system able to run the lifesupport and basic sensory systems (vision, hearing, etc) for a day or two, to allow for a mechanic to swap out the power core. i would assume this reserve system could also be plugged into an external source as well, as backup to the backup.

if your trying to power built in weapons or other high energy draw systems, whether partial or full cyborg, you need to have E-clip ports or an extra, higher output shorter duration, nuclear powerplant installed, which would be on par with a MG-railgun or a light PA in duration.

[rem1093]

Remember the baby food from the first Robocop. Why not something like that, A Fusion based reactor, that is separates the the fuel source (anything that is edible) for both the mechanical and the organic.

[Marcethus]

The babyfood in the first Robocop was for the organic parts of him that remained. Which is also not addressed in Rifts.

[kaid]

The babyfood in the first Robocop was for the organic parts of him that remained. Which is also not addressed in Rifts.

Actually I believe it is. I am pretty sure in the bionics source book it talks about it and I seem to recall some mods to store more food for their biological stuff for longer field use. Borgs don't eat much but they like robocop do need some actual food for the organic bits to work.

[Marcethus]

I stand corrected then. I haven't read through my Bionics Sourcebook in years.

[Axelmania]

I'm trying to figure out how this fits all together. Best I can figure...

*default borg: your nuke is just to power you, nothing else
*Bionics 95: WLtPS lets you plug energy weapons in for pretty minor penalties (10-18 thou per weapon)
*Bionics 108: IES is an independent power supply (500 blasts for 500k electric, unlimited blasts for 1 mil nuke) so when you buy a WL and link it to this instead of your primary power supply, you can shoot the gun without penalizing your speed/leaping (short-term) or combat bonuses (long-term)

IES would only seem necessary for borgs which relied a lot on mobility. If your'e already pretty slow then shorter leaps and slower running aren't a big deterrent, and combat penalties only happen after an hour so you just keep your battles 55 minutes and under.

Speed/Leaping penalties also don't really matter at all if you're a cyborg equipped with a jetpack since those have an independent power supply. Of course... those are expensive, and can get shut off...

I'd like to know if Weapon Links penalties are cumulative though. For example if using one is -20% to speed and -20% to leap distance then if you had 2 energy weapons linked, would it be -40% ? Or is it capped at 20 because you're still limited in how many you can fire per melee attack?

It doesn't seem to make sense since a guy with more melee attacks could fire off more shots... or if a borg had paired energy pistols they could do twin shots.

Throw into the mix Naruni Force Fields (which can be powered by a cyborg's nuclear battery, they use the robot versions, 20x the price and double the MDC as those used by body armor and power armor... never mind that a lot of power armor is bigger than many borgs...) and the apparent lack of penalties for powering them... I think a good house rule would be to require the same penalties as a Weapon Link to run them.

[kaid]

Also note that pretty much all borg integrated weapon other than some rarities has energy clip ports on it. So you can run off the clips until they are dry then hit up the weapon links at a loss of some speed/agility due to the extra draw but it beats not having weapons to shoot as a backup.

I think a lot of the big super heavy units like the warlords shock troopers have the independent power supply type options as they use a lot more heavy integrated weaponry than most standard borgs do.

[Axelmania]

I'd still like to figure out a trick for partial cyborgs to have a nuclear power supply so I can hook up Naruni Force Fields to it. Otherwise, while they might still be able to use the big robot double-MDC fields they'd have to power them with E-clips and that's no fun.

[kaid]

I'd still like to figure out a trick for partial cyborgs to have a nuclear power supply so I can hook up Naruni Force Fields to it. Otherwise, while they might still be able to use the big robot double-MDC fields they'd have to power them with E-clips and that's no fun.

I am not sure how much juice the partial conversion have to spare. They tend not to have anywhere near the integrated weaponry of full and even full don't tend to have a ton of integrated weapons that siphon directly off the power supply.

[The Beast]

I'd still like to figure out a trick for partial cyborgs to have a nuclear power supply so I can hook up Naruni Force Fields to it. Otherwise, while they might still be able to use the big robot double-MDC fields they'd have to power them with E-clips and that's no fun.

Buy an additional borg power supply. Have one just run weapons and/or shields. The other is for the borg's systems.

Petty tyrants thrive when they have authority backed by vague regulations.

[Shark_Force]

I'd still like to figure out a trick for partial cyborgs to have a nuclear power supply so I can hook up Naruni Force Fields to it. Otherwise, while they might still be able to use the big robot double-MDC fields they'd have to power them with E-clips and that's no fun.

Buy an additional borg power supply. Have one just run weapons and/or shields. The other is for the borg's systems.

considering the budget for full conversion 'borgs runs rather close to the budget for the absolute most expensive power armours, i'd say there are probably cheaper and better ways than buying extremely expensive bionics.

[tsh77769]

Partial borgs CAN have nuclear power sources for unlimited use of energy weapons. In the description of the nuclear power source it says around 30% of partial borgs go with this option.

tsh77769

[Axelmania]

95 says "only applicable to full conversion cyborgs" for Weapon Link to Power Supply
108 says "built into the chest of a full conversion borg" for Internal Energy Supply which I think overrides the "partial or full" statement in the Japanese Bionic Weapons & Tools header.

Which page is your statement from? I want to make a note for this.

[Mathew]

I always laugh at the sci-fi definition of a nuclear power supply. Obviously written by people who don't know that nuclear "reactor" just generate heat, which warms water, and generate power from a steam turbine. They seem to think a "nuclear reactor" has some sort of nuclear explosion going off inside slowly, like the nuclear batteries from the Terminator movie, and could explode at any moment.

So does a borg have a tiny steam engine inside him? Is a borg power supply useful in making a pot of hot tea?

[Nekira Sudacne]

I always laugh at the sci-fi definition of a nuclear power supply. Obviously written by people who don't know that nuclear "reactor" just generate heat, which warms water, and generate power from a steam turbine. They seem to think a "nuclear reactor" has some sort of nuclear explosion going off inside slowly, like the nuclear batteries from the Terminator movie, and could explode at any moment.

So does a borg have a tiny steam engine inside him? Is a borg power supply useful in making a pot of hot tea?

It's a micro fusion reactor, actually.

[glitterboy2098]

actually the bulk of the references in rifts are still to descriptive stuff that support Fission. we just have started seeing fusion being mentioned.

[guardiandashi]

the vast majority of the rifts power plants are nuclear fission. what the writers don't specify is how it converts from heat into usable energy.
now they could use some variation of "steam" but as mentioned I suspect that they would be way too bulky and massive for it to be practical.
personally I suspect they have some insanely efficient thermoelectric generators.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator

if they were closer to 50-80% efficient as opposed to our current 5-8 percent they might produce the majority of the power required.

[taalismn]

the vast majority of the rifts power plants are nuclear fission. what the writers don't specify is how it converts from heat into usable energy.
now they could use some variation of "steam" but as mentioned I suspect that they would be way too bulky and massive for it to be practical.
personally I suspect they have some insanely efficient thermoelectric generators.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator

if they were closer to 50-80% efficient as opposed to our current 5-8 percent they might produce the majority of the power required.

Assisted by Golden Age breakthroughs in room temperature superconductors?

[guardiandashi]

the vast majority of the rifts power plants are nuclear fission. what the writers don't specify is how it converts from heat into usable energy.
now they could use some variation of "steam" but as mentioned I suspect that they would be way too bulky and massive for it to be practical.
personally I suspect they have some insanely efficient thermoelectric generators.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator

if they were closer to 50-80% efficient as opposed to our current 5-8 percent they might produce the majority of the power required.

Assisted by Golden Age breakthroughs in room temperature superconductors?

sure

[Mathew]

Well, that's at least a bit better, but I still like the idea of a steam-powered borg.

[Blue_Lion]

Well, that's at least a bit better, but I still like the idea of a steam-powered borg.

Sounds like a job for steam TW punk.
The problem with steam would be the amount of water to make the power you need. (the dropped game system failure had rules for steam powered devices.)

[kaid]

the vast majority of the rifts power plants are nuclear fission. what the writers don't specify is how it converts from heat into usable energy.
now they could use some variation of "steam" but as mentioned I suspect that they would be way too bulky and massive for it to be practical.
personally I suspect they have some insanely efficient thermoelectric generators.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator

if they were closer to 50-80% efficient as opposed to our current 5-8 percent they might produce the majority of the power required.

That is pretty much my thought as well. Robots/power armor/borgs are simply to small to have any bunkerage needed for fusion and given the radiation hazards mentioned of destroyed mechs it almost has to be fission powered and probably something along the lines of thermoelectric generators. And given improvements in super conductors it actually could be a pretty reasonable answer too. They could be pretty small and pretty heavily shielded so that only the most total of destruction would breach it enough to cause problems.

[say652]

Warlords of Russia has the weaponslink and Cyberlink explained in further detail.
Unless the Cyborg had a seperate power supply for v weapons it drains it's main power core causing penalties