Ley Line Walkers and others...

[HarleeKnight]

I know they can use a ley line to provide the PPE for spells they are casting, 20 and 40 PPE depending on where on the ley line they are. I'm told that they can also use ley line energy to directly replenish their used up PPE and also to over charge to 2 or 3 times their max for a few minutes. I can't find this rule anywhere in any book. I was told RUE and Book of Magic and a couple of other spots but if the rule is in any of these I can't find it.
Can anyone point me to the correct pages if this is really a rule and not a "house rule" used by most.

[dragonfett]

Page 116 and 186 of the RUE under Supplemental PPE for the 10-40 PPE/melee round (10 is the base amount on ley lines and 20 at a ley line nexus, Ley Line Walkers can tap twice that amount). The overcharging was an answer to an FAQ style question in the Book of Magic, page 21, left column, last question on the column. It's the mage's base PPE x3 they can hold for their Physical Endurance score in minutes.

[Axelmania]

It's also printed as number 7 at http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php ... s&catid=58 which matches the Book of Magic nerf to PE in minutes.

Original PE in hours rule has been reflected on the web since 2008: http://web.archive.org/web/200811211406 ... neppe.html

Broke this down in March too: viewtopic.php?p=2909524#p2909524

Cliffs:

pre-November 1999 the FAQ introduces PE in Hours
October 2000 Rifter 12 prints this rule and says Kevin Siembieda endorses it
between February 2002 and February 2003 they change the FAQ from hours to minutes
Book of Magic prints the 'minutes' stat (not sure exactly when it came out)

[dragonfett]

It's also printed as number 7 at http://www.palladiumbooks.com/index.php ... s&catid=58 which matches the Book of Magic nerf to PE in minutes.

Original PE in hours rule has been reflected on the web since 2008: http://web.archive.org/web/200811211406 ... neppe.html

Broke this down in March too: viewtopic.php?p=2909524#p2909524

Cliffs:

pre-November 1999 the FAQ introduces PE in Hours
October 2000 Rifter 12 prints this rule and says Kevin Siembieda endorses it
between February 2002 and February 2003 they change the FAQ from hours to minutes
Book of Magic prints the 'minutes' stat (not sure exactly when it came out)

BoM came out 2001.

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip…
It's the mage's base PPE x3 they can hold for their Physical Endurance score in minutes.

Two things to mention about these two items.

There is no consensus about whether the Base PPEx3 number for the overcharge. Some take it mean to be the total amount of PPE (base + 2x base in temp) or if it means the amount over and above the base that can be gathered (Base = 3x base in temp).
[Disclosure: I go by the latter, where the 3x is only talking about the amount of extra PPE (temp) the mage can gather.]

The Time to hold the PPE overcharge text does not give a starting point to the when to count the time from.
I rule in my games that it is from the end of the gathering rather from any earlier point.

A third thing, the book never states that PPE gathered at a LL or LLN will refill the mage's Base PPE. Some people, not me, take this to mean that All PPE gathered at a LL/LLN is temp PPE and can only be held for so long before dissipating.

[Axelmania]

That third thing is interesting, certainly would balance out the super-fast PPE regen at ley lines problem.

[kaid]

Although the fact you can use the same fast flowing PPE to overcharge your natural max PPE storage would sort of indicate that it is indeed actually raising your personal reserves and not just a temporary boost.

[Blue_Lion]

I would rule the time limit starts once you go above your base PPE. Other wise some one can sit in state of being over the base PPE but not at the time limit and as long as he cast spells at a rate to avoid hitting the cap would be able to stay there until he passes out or drains the PPE. This also means that it take more than sitting on a ley line to cast high level spells.

I see 3 times your base PPE as meaning you the total PPE can not go above 3 times what your base is total, your base is 1 times base PPE, if you absorbed equal amount to your base that is 2 times base PPE.

[eliakon]

I would rule the time limit starts once you go above your base PPE. Other wise some one can sit in state of being over the base PPE but not at the time limit and as ling as he cast spells at a rate to avoid hitting the cap would be able to stay there until he passes out or drains the PPE. This also means that it take more than sitting on a ley line to cast high level spells.

I see 3 times your base PPE as meaning you the total PPE can not go above 3 times what your base is total, your base is 1 times base PPE, if you absorbed equal amount to your base that is 2 times base PPE.

^This^

[Blue_Lion]

I would rule the time limit starts once you go above your base PPE. Other wise some one can sit in state of being over the base PPE but not at the time limit and as ling as he cast spells at a rate to avoid hitting the cap would be able to stay there until he passes out or drains the PPE. This also means that it take more than sitting on a ley line to cast high level spells.

I see 3 times your base PPE as meaning you the total PPE can not go above 3 times what your base is total, your base is 1 times base PPE, if you absorbed equal amount to your base that is 2 times base PPE.

^This^

I do not think we often agree on something.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I would rule the time limit starts once you go above your base PPE. Other wise some one can sit in state of being over the base PPE but not at the time limit and as ling as he cast spells at a rate to avoid hitting the cap would be able to stay there until he passes out or drains the PPE. This also means that it take more than sitting on a ley line to cast high level spells.

I see 3 times your base PPE as meaning you the total PPE can not go above 3 times what your base is total, your base is 1 times base PPE, if you absorbed equal amount to your base that is 2 times base PPE.

^This^

Which one do you mean?There are two things in your quote.
Or did you mean to say "^these^"?

[eliakon]

I would rule the time limit starts once you go above your base PPE. Other wise some one can sit in state of being over the base PPE but not at the time limit and as ling as he cast spells at a rate to avoid hitting the cap would be able to stay there until he passes out or drains the PPE. This also means that it take more than sitting on a ley line to cast high level spells.

I see 3 times your base PPE as meaning you the total PPE can not go above 3 times what your base is total, your base is 1 times base PPE, if you absorbed equal amount to your base that is 2 times base PPE.

^This^

Which one do you mean?There are two things in your quote.
Or did you mean to say "^these^"?

I meant This. This is grammatically correct when referring to a singular object, even if that object contains multiple things.
Thus saying "This is how I would interpret the rules, he has nailed every interpretation correctly"....or "this"

[eliakon]

I would rule the time limit starts once you go above your base PPE. Other wise some one can sit in state of being over the base PPE but not at the time limit and as ling as he cast spells at a rate to avoid hitting the cap would be able to stay there until he passes out or drains the PPE. This also means that it take more than sitting on a ley line to cast high level spells.

I see 3 times your base PPE as meaning you the total PPE can not go above 3 times what your base is total, your base is 1 times base PPE, if you absorbed equal amount to your base that is 2 times base PPE.

^This^

I do not think we often agree on something.

Not to often... but hey, when your right your right. I would say that you have nailed not only the correct interpretations, you have explained WHY they are the correct ones. Its the sort of explanation that may end up (cited of course) in my house rules folio

[drewkitty ~..~]

I would rule the time limit starts once you go above your base PPE. Other wise some one can sit in state of being over the base PPE but not at the time limit and as ling as he cast spells at a rate to avoid hitting the cap would be able to stay there until he passes out or drains the PPE. This also means that it take more than sitting on a ley line to cast high level spells.

I see 3 times your base PPE as meaning you the total PPE can not go above 3 times what your base is total, your base is 1 times base PPE, if you absorbed equal amount to your base that is 2 times base PPE.

^This^

Which one do you mean?There are two things in your quote.
Or did you mean to say "^these^"?

I meant This. This is grammatically correct when referring to a singular object, even if that object contains multiple things.
Thus saying "This is how I would interpret the rules, he has nailed every interpretation correctly"....or "this"

The rule you said is correct, but incorrectly applied.

As I pointed out before, there were Two Ideas in what you quoted. Which is Why I correctly asked which idea you were talking about or if you meant both of the ideas you quoted by asking if you really meant 'these'.
Please stop being an iris, intentionally trying to get me mad at you. It is not funny.

Warning: Keep to the topic rather than talking about other posters

[Marcethus]

I would rule the time limit
starts once you go above your base PPE. Other wise some one can sit in state of being over the base PPE but not at the time limit and as long as he cast spells at a rate to avoid hitting the cap would be able to stay there until he passes out or drains the PPE. This also means that it take more than sitting on a ley line to cast high level spells.

I see 3 times your base PPE as meaning you the total PPE can not go above 3 times what your base is total, your base is 1 times base PPE, if you absorbed equal amount to your base that is 2 times base PPE.

I agree with the first part of what you said in regards to the time.
But given the extremely high cost of many high level spells I would interpret it as absorbing 3 times base PPE not 2.

[eliakon]

I would rule the time limit
starts once you go above your base PPE. Other wise some one can sit in state of being over the base PPE but not at the time limit and as long as he cast spells at a rate to avoid hitting the cap would be able to stay there until he passes out or drains the PPE. This also means that it take more than sitting on a ley line to cast high level spells.

I see 3 times your base PPE as meaning you the total PPE can not go above 3 times what your base is total, your base is 1 times base PPE, if you absorbed equal amount to your base that is 2 times base PPE.

I agree with the first part of what you said in regards to the time.
But given the extremely high cost of many high level spells I would interpret it as absorbing 3 times base PPE not 2.

My personal take on the high PPE cost is like that in the BoM...
That there are lots of other ways to get the PPE, and not all casters are going to be low to mid level mortal PCs...
Sometimes you need a ritual, or some batteries, or to be an elder dragon or what have you.

[Marcethus]

I would rule the time limit
starts once you go above your base PPE. Other wise some one can sit in state of being over the base PPE but not at the time limit and as long as he cast spells at a rate to avoid hitting the cap would be able to stay there until he passes out or drains the PPE. This also means that it take more than sitting on a ley line to cast high level spells.

I see 3 times your base PPE as meaning you the total PPE can not go above 3 times what your base is total, your base is 1 times base PPE, if you absorbed equal amount to your base that is 2 times base PPE.

I agree with the first part of what you said in regards to the time.
But given the extremely high cost of many high level spells I would interpret it as absorbing 3 times base PPE not 2.

My personal take on the high PPE cost is like that in the BoM...
That there are lots of other ways to get the PPE, and not all casters are going to be low to mid level mortal PCs...
Sometimes you need a ritual, or some batteries, or to be an elder dragon or what have you.

But even high level mages can't cast alot of the high level high cost spells even if they are on a ley line or nexus.

[Shark_Force]

But even high level mages can't cast alot of the high level high cost spells even if they are on a ley line or nexus.

you mean, can't cast them alone?

why is that inherently a problem. a group of mages can ritual cast a scroll or talisman of the spell if it isn't useful at the time. a group could cast the spell immediately if it is useful immediately as well. you can create talismans that store PPE for you for later use, which is not limited by the maximum capacity of drawing from a ley line. you could bring along a group of regular people or non-spellcasting supernatural beings to draw PPE from and supplement your ley line capacity. you could create energy spheres for later use, including casting the big spells. maybe you can even use animal sacrifices. it wouldn't be very tempting to use those dark forms of magic if any random schmuck could handle the PPE cost of the most powerful spells alone, now, would it? i mean, what moron would ever resort to needing to drag around large animals (or humans) to sacrifice if it was just a couple minutes at a random point on a ley line to get all the PPE you'll ever need?

not every spell is meant to be cast without any assistance or preparation by regular mortal mages. that doesn't mean there is something wrong with the spell. it just means that you're going to need some help, which is not a problem.

[Marcethus]

While that is fine for some of the high cost spells, some of those high cost spells have combat applications, and it is highly unlikely in a combat situation you will have access to those things.

[flatline]

While that is fine for some of the high cost spells, some of those high cost spells have combat applications, and it is highly unlikely in a combat situation you will have access to those things.

So when you DO have access to those things, create scrolls/talismans/whatever for later use.

The idea that mages must prepare ahead of time in order to create grand effects isn't exactly novel to this setting. It's a common trope across most settings with magic.

--flatline

[Shark_Force]

While that is fine for some of the high cost spells, some of those high cost spells have combat applications, and it is highly unlikely in a combat situation you will have access to those things.

So when you DO have access to those things, create scrolls/talismans/whatever for later use.

The idea that mages must prepare ahead of time in order to create grand effects isn't exactly novel to this setting. It's a common trope across most settings with magic.

--flatline

exactly. I mean, even on a ley line, are we honestly suggesting that your plan should be to stand around for 5 minutes charging up your attack? that only works in dragonball Z. in real life, if you charge up an ability for 5 minutes, the other guy shoots you. so really, even in a fight, you're not going to be using a ley line to charge up a powerful attack. instead, you'll use weaker spells (which also have the benefit of not needing multiple actions to cast and thus being impossible to interrupt), and possibly the occasional magical item that you've charged up previously when you had a group of friends to help.

[Blue_Lion]

While that is fine for some of the high cost spells, some of those high cost spells have combat applications, and it is highly unlikely in a combat situation you will have access to those things.

High cost spells are not intended to be cast on whim but with planning and likely team work. Typically high cost spells are also high level so are not something you do while in a heavy fire fight. A group of mages could feed mana/ppe to one cast the spell, but just casting it takes more than one action.

[dragonfett]

While that is fine for some of the high cost spells, some of those high cost spells have combat applications, and it is highly unlikely in a combat situation you will have access to those things.

High cost spells are not intended to be cast on whim but with planning and likely team work. Typically high cost spells are also high level so are not something you do while in a heavy fire fight. A group of mages could feed mana/ppe to one cast the spell, but just casting it takes more than one action.

Then you have Spells of Legend that have a short duration (such as Warrior Horde with a duration of 20 melees per level of the caster).

[Axelmania]

If triple/quadruple overcharge still doesn't give you enough PPE to cast a spell and you don't have others to offer extra PPE in a ritual then I think a Talisman PPE battery or that ball which stores PPE could both take you beyond that limit.

Warrior Horde, even if you might take longer to cast it as a ritual (to bypass your PPE max) than it lasts, could still be useful as an offense or to break through a siege. Also it could be put on a Scroll.