Chi Town: What to do and Why?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Okay folks, this is a question that's kinda bugged me sinse the eairly days of Rifts.

It's pretty clear that the Burbs/Chi Town was intended to be someplace players were intended to be able to go to play. the burbs are offically a free no-mans-land where D-bees and magic users can skate under the CS's radar so long as they are careful to not do anything to call the Fuzz down on them. There are a lot of rules about the Black Market, a lot of discription of the various levels of Chi-Town, and detailed information on how much it costs to get day passes for characters to enter from the burbs, up to and including authorization for magic using characters to be escorted in under heavy guard!

and yet...I can't remember any time anyone seriously mentioned wanting to go to Chi-Town, who wasn't actually playing a CS character in a pro-CS centered game. For all the word count, there's just nothing stated to be there that would be a draw to characters with the kind of cash and connections needed to get in in the first place.

Am I missing something? Are there attractions i've overlooked? Barring that, what kind of attractions COULD there be?

This is basically a thread about making Chi-Town/Burbs a playable arena for medium to high powered characters--what ideas do you have, cannonical or not, for making Chi-Town an attractive place to shell out the equivlent of an MDC rifle, just to get in for a day?

[Glistam]

Hm. Good points and a great question. Everything that comes to mind centers around gathering information. Here's some thoughts.

• The only way to get the computer files you need is to get to a computer terminal on a certain city level. Or, physical files in a storage room..
• You need to talk with someone really badly. For your mission to succeed you need to find a certain person and get information from them.
• Alternatively, someone really wants to talk to you but they can't risk leaving the city. Is getting to them worth the effort? They tell you "yes"...
• Someone in the city needs to get out, and they need your help to do it.

There's a lot of variations that come to mind. I start thinking of Shadowrun-style stuff. There are "Johnsons" both inside and outside the city and they have stuff that needs to get done within the city walls which they can't be implicated in. Enter the P.C.'s and as long as you make the reward greater than the risk a story hook is born.

[Blue_Lion]

Chi town itself, would be spy or assassination type missions for human only charters. (chi town itself i thought was mostly off limits to non cs charters.)

Burbs
Rescue D-bees on cs patrols hit list.
Black market security escort.
A specialist that has some skill or equipment the charters need want.
Raid CS supplies and food processing plants in the burbs.
A place to hide from the CS.

[Zamion138]

If your looking for the attraction of the burbs not so much what kind of mission to do there think of it like the teaming masses of that movie Elsium ( http://m.imdb.com/title/tt1535108/ ). Its huge like 5 merctowns population wise if I remember right, there are monsters in the sewers, as well as escaped CS ratlings, but as they all escaped or are some of them still working deep cover for tge CS) you have police state/gestopo type police, underground magic shops and cults, some ran by vanguard as a trap some by actual freedom fighters. You have the humanists and the dregs of Dbee life side by side. Its a good place for a mid to low power group to do non-murder hobo game, no wandering town to town or having grand giant robot battles in the woods and plains. A wilks laser pistol is again a frighteningly effective weapon, a juicer with a vibro knife almost more so.
With the comming of the demons and devils its on edge and the cs is both winning the human residents hearts and minds while more distracted and less present than ever.

Its a total diffrent flavor than most Rifts games, more cyberpunk/shadowrun almost. Stealth and cunning becoming more important than heavy mdc armor and a ja12 on your back.

Ill be honest in all my years we have played all of 2 games in the burbs, once as cs police once as a criminal elements. We died as the latter. TPK on night 3 as we did not run away and stood our ground.

[Shark_Force]

if i had the kinds of resources to potentially get into chi-town when i shouldn't be allowed in, i'd much rather be the mr johnson than the shadowrunner. and i would probably have the resources to do that, because all i actually need is someone who isn't as forbidden as i am... if i'm a master psychic or a powerful wizard, and i have the resources to get myself in, i also have the resources to hire someone who is *not* a master psychic or powerful wizard, but rather a reasonably ordinary human being.

to get me to go into the belly of the beast, you'd need a compelling reason for me personally to go there that can't be replaced by sending someone else who isn't KOS to the coalition by default.

[Nekira Sudacne]

if i had the kinds of resources to potentially get into chi-town when i shouldn't be allowed in, i'd much rather be the mr johnson than the shadowrunner. and i would probably have the resources to do that, because all i actually need is someone who isn't as forbidden as i am... if i'm a master psychic or a powerful wizard, and i have the resources to get myself in, i also have the resources to hire someone who is *not* a master psychic or powerful wizard, but rather a reasonably ordinary human being.

to get me to go into the belly of the beast, you'd need a compelling reason for me personally to go there that can't be replaced by sending someone else who isn't KOS to the coalition by default.

That is my question yes: What WOULD motivate your character to bite the bullet and go for it?

Chi town itself, would be spy or assassination type missions for human only charters. (chi town itself i thought was mostly off limits to non cs charters.)

As I said, there is an entire section in the main book detailing how to get forged or authentic authorization for any kind of character to enter. it's on a strict time limit (up to 6 months, albiet it costs over a million credits), and you have to leave all MDC equipment at the door, but the rules for non-CS characters entering is littearlly as old as the game itself. Only the levels reserved for the Emporer and high command are completely off limits to non-CS characters.

Heck, you can even get a legal pass for transporting magic items through Chi-Town itself! costs only 10 million credits

(nonmilitary magic items only)

[dragonfett]

Smuggling illegal goods into the city for a decent payday comes to mind.

Accessing the Chi-Town Library is another.

[Zamion138]

If it cost you 1 million to get in and I assume thats a person, you also then need the logistics for the goods, assuming 4 pc's. To make it worth it your selling 8 million dollars in goods on the down low.....good luck with that.

Maybe your going in to buy something for a great deal instead like a greater rune sword or such and the person in the burbs just wants it gone so your 140 million dollar sword is now only 10 million or something.....just gotta get it out with your neck.

[Nekira Sudacne]

If it cost you 1 million to get in and I assume thats a person, you also then need the logistics for the goods, assuming 4 pc's. To make it worth it your selling 8 million dollars in goods on the down low.....good luck with that.

Maybe your going in to buy something for a great deal instead like a greater rune sword or such and the person in the burbs just wants it gone so your 140 million dollar sword is now only 10 million or something.....just gotta get it out with your neck.

That's one million for a six month pass. it's actually 1.2 million. A day pass is only 16,000 per person. which is, as I said, about the cost of a low end MDC laser gun.

[Glistam]

A couple more ideas for entry, before I switch tangents:

• Medicine. CS Doctors have some sort of drug that's needed to cure little Suzy and it's only available inside the city. Sure, the PC's could wait until a shipment is in transit, but can little Suzy wait?
• A CS soldier or official has been causing a problem. The PC's are hired to kidnap this person's family. Alternatively, they are hired just to deliver a warning to the family in order to prove to this guy that they aren't as safe as he thought.
• Education. The characters could be contracted to get to some sort of video to air on the CS citizen TV network. The truth is out there and needs to be communicated!

The original Rifts book does note this on page 206 for why one might try to gain entry:

Naturally, the black market sells forgeries to individuals who wish to gain entry into the city, usually to buy equipment or enjoy services, from medical to food and entertainment, available only at a CS city.

There's visitor passes available for messengers and couriers, which basically let you go in, do something briefly, and get out. They only cost a few thousand credits.

Going back to the Original Rifts Book write up on Chi-Town, we get this on pages 140-141 for what's of interest in the various city levels (not inluding the military sub levels):

The upper levels, beginning at about levels 23 through 35, are the domain of the upper middle class and the wealthy. Despite their wealth most are illiterate, but content laborers, which is how the CS likes its citizens. Each level has attractive stores, entertainment centers, and parks. The higher one goes, the more affluent and attractive the city becomes. Above level 35 are the very wealthy and the political elite. There is even a university and medical/science center on level 40, near the very top. A place of learning for the elite 12% of the population that enjoys formal education and full literacy.

Levels 22 through level four are the homes of the lower middle class and the poor. The lower one goes, the older and shabbier the city becomes. This is the home of city rats, cyber-clinics, bargain stores, pawnshops, and the black market. The lowest levels look almost like a sewer and are as corrupt and dangerous as the Burbs. This is a place of shattered dreams. The place where too many of the hopeful, waiting patiently beyond the city's walls, fall between the cracks and end up suffocating in humanity's own cruelty and apathy.

The original Sourcebook 1 also has some interesting thoughts for adventures that can involve the Chi-Town under the entries for Colonel Lyboc. Imagine a long-running campaign to finally expose all his illicit operations? That could involve plenty of back and forth from the 'Burbs to the city.

[Killer Cyborg]

Okay folks, this is a question that's kinda bugged me sinse the eairly days of Rifts.

It's pretty clear that the Burbs/Chi Town was intended to be someplace players were intended to be able to go to play. the burbs are offically a free no-mans-land where D-bees and magic users can skate under the CS's radar so long as they are careful to not do anything to call the Fuzz down on them. There are a lot of rules about the Black Market, a lot of discription of the various levels of Chi-Town, and detailed information on how much it costs to get day passes for characters to enter from the burbs, up to and including authorization for magic using characters to be escorted in under heavy guard!

and yet...I can't remember any time anyone seriously mentioned wanting to go to Chi-Town, who wasn't actually playing a CS character in a pro-CS centered game. For all the word count, there's just nothing stated to be there that would be a draw to characters with the kind of cash and connections needed to get in in the first place.

Am I missing something? Are there attractions i've overlooked? Barring that, what kind of attractions COULD there be?

This is basically a thread about making Chi-Town/Burbs a playable arena for medium to high powered characters--what ideas do you have, cannonical or not, for making Chi-Town an attractive place to shell out the equivlent of an MDC rifle, just to get in for a day?

Remember, there are a lot of City Rats who have never even left a CS city. You could easily make a City Rat campaign set entirely in Chi-Town. They might be CS citizens, but that doesn't necessarily make them for the CS. Most cyberpunk games are specifically about trying to tear down, fight, or change the system, and anything along those lines would fit in perfectly in Chi-Town.

Any ANTI-CS adventure/campaign could easily take place in Chi-Town, just like Inglorious Basterds took place in Germany.

Or maybe the characters aren't pro-CS, but they do want to try to convince the CS of an important danger that threatens the entire planet, because it's only with the CS' help that the menace can be stopped.

Or maybe the character just wants to hire or be hired by somebody in the city, to do business. There are reasons why people go to big cities; the bigger the city, the bigger the business potential.

Basically, all the usual reasons why a character might go to ANY city.

[Jorick]

For high powered characters, two ideas:

The burbs books describe a vampire that found vents he could enter in mist form. In the minion war, or whatever, perhaps others find similar ways in. The heroes have to find a way in to rescue the clueless, disbelieving and aggressive population from annihilation (demon plague? Mass monster buffet?).

The black market books discuss the cartel that resides primarily in chi-town. Perhaps the high powered characters (likely enhanced supernaturally?) work for a competing cartel. Conference? Assasination? Etc?

[Nekira Sudacne]

Okay folks, this is a question that's kinda bugged me sinse the eairly days of Rifts.

It's pretty clear that the Burbs/Chi Town was intended to be someplace players were intended to be able to go to play. the burbs are offically a free no-mans-land where D-bees and magic users can skate under the CS's radar so long as they are careful to not do anything to call the Fuzz down on them. There are a lot of rules about the Black Market, a lot of discription of the various levels of Chi-Town, and detailed information on how much it costs to get day passes for characters to enter from the burbs, up to and including authorization for magic using characters to be escorted in under heavy guard!

and yet...I can't remember any time anyone seriously mentioned wanting to go to Chi-Town, who wasn't actually playing a CS character in a pro-CS centered game. For all the word count, there's just nothing stated to be there that would be a draw to characters with the kind of cash and connections needed to get in in the first place.

Am I missing something? Are there attractions i've overlooked? Barring that, what kind of attractions COULD there be?

This is basically a thread about making Chi-Town/Burbs a playable arena for medium to high powered characters--what ideas do you have, cannonical or not, for making Chi-Town an attractive place to shell out the equivlent of an MDC rifle, just to get in for a day?

Remember, there are a lot of City Rats who have never even left a CS city. You could easily make a City Rat campaign set entirely in Chi-Town. They might be CS citizens, but that doesn't necessarily make them for the CS. Most cyberpunk games are specifically about trying to tear down, fight, or change the system, and anything along those lines would fit in perfectly in Chi-Town.

Any ANTI-CS adventure/campaign could easily take place in Chi-Town, just like Inglorious Basterds took place in Germany.

Or maybe the characters aren't pro-CS, but they do want to try to convince the CS of an important danger that threatens the entire planet, because it's only with the CS' help that the menace can be stopped.

Or maybe the character just wants to hire or be hired by somebody in the city, to do business. There are reasons why people go to big cities; the bigger the city, the bigger the business potential.

Basically, all the usual reasons why a character might go to ANY city.

Prehaps should be a bit more clear: I know the general reasons/plot hooks that apply to ANY major city also apply to chi-town, the problem is the Risk of Chi Town vs any other city on Rifts Earth is so much greater that it needs extra incentive on top to get players to seriously consider it. you "Could" do any run of the mill game there, but the rates of doing so appear to be vanishingly small.

My point--and question--is that there needs to be a cherry on top, something to entice my players to want to do those standard things here, as opposed to any old city

For Example, for a presumably mostly-human group, Atlantis is even more dangerous than Chi-Town, but there's no problem getting them to go there because the possible rewards of extra loot in the form of Rune Weapons and tatoos and enhnacements are preportionally greater than anywhere else. no where else in Rifts will a scuffle with the local cops have decent odds of yeilding at least 1 or 2 lesser to greater rune weapons, and almost certainly some of those sweet renegerating armor of ithan talismens (regenerating armor!) if it's a minor incident. the Risk is far outsized in Splynn, but so are the rewards.

Chi Town is massively more risk than an average major city, but as it stands, no greater rewards. This is a problem, and it's why higher level parties tend to just avoid it entirely. See what i'm getting at?

Obviously one could just jack up the reward for any job the GM wants to set in chi-town to compensate for the risks, and that might well work a time or two, but i'm looking for more creative and long-term solutions than just throwing millions of credits at the party--that's a stratagy that quickly has dimishing returns on effectiveness.

[Natasha]

Obviously one could just jack up the reward for any job the GM wants to set in chi-town to compensate for the risks, and that might well work a time or two, but i'm looking for more creative and long-term solutions than just throwing millions of credits at the party--that's a stratagy that quickly has dimishing returns on effectiveness.

Honestly, it depends on the players and their characters whether or not your statement is true.

If you play in a group where money really isn't an issue, then millions of credits isn't really a reward. But if you are burning through armour and ammunition at high rates and the GM makes you pay for reconstitution, then you have to have a lot of money available. There are other reasons to want millions and millions of credits besides being sufficiently armed.

There could less tangible rewards, too. For instance, as it's been mentioned already, subversive activity is a rewarding experience for subversive people. Some people like adrenaline rushes and jump out of airplanes over and over and over.

[Killer Cyborg]

Prehaps should be a bit more clear: I know the general reasons/plot hooks that apply to ANY major city also apply to chi-town, the problem is the Risk of Chi Town vs any other city on Rifts Earth is so much greater that it needs extra incentive on top to get players to seriously consider it. you "Could" do any run of the mill game there, but the rates of doing so appear to be vanishingly small.

My point--and question--is that there needs to be a cherry on top, something to entice my players to want to do those standard things here, as opposed to any old city

You don't consider Chi-Town being the largest and wealthiest city in North America (at least) to be enticing?

For Example, for a presumably mostly-human group, Atlantis is even more dangerous than Chi-Town, but there's no problem getting them to go there because the possible rewards of extra loot in the form of Rune Weapons and tatoos and enhnacements are preportionally greater than anywhere else. no where else in Rifts will a scuffle with the local cops have decent odds of yeilding at least 1 or 2 lesser to greater rune weapons, and almost certainly some of those sweet renegerating armor of ithan talismens (regenerating armor!) if it's a minor incident. the Risk is far outsized in Splynn, but so are the rewards.

a) I don't remember them detailing what the rules for traveling into Atlantis is. That doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't any. Surely some kind of paperwork is needed, and they don't just let people come and go at will?

b) The risks for a human group would be lower in Chi-Town, but the financial rewards could potentially be as great. If you insist on getting paid in rune weapons or something magical instead of flat-out credits, that could still be worked in, if you know somebody corrupt with access to The Black Vault.

Chi Town is massively more risk than an average major city, but as it stands, no greater rewards. This is a problem, and it's why higher level parties tend to just avoid it entirely. See what i'm getting at?

All except for the "no greater reward" part.
Again, largest and wealthiest city in North America, and it's the seat of power of the largest nation in North America, and one of the most powerful militaries in the world.
From my perspective, it seems like saying that there's no reason to go to Dubai to do business, because you could just do business in Chicago instead... It doesn't quite compute to me.

Obviously one could just jack up the reward for any job the GM wants to set in chi-town to compensate for the risks, and that might well work a time or two, but i'm looking for more creative and long-term solutions than just throwing millions of credits at the party--that's a stratagy that quickly has dimishing returns on effectiveness.

What is the party looking for that can't be obtained with millions of credits?
Political clout?
A full-blown military assault on an enemy?
Secrets to superior technology?
Pre-Rifts information from the "destroyed" CS Library?
Current intelligence on some faction in Rifts Earth that the CS has spied on?
Negotiating a treaty with the CS?
A robot army?
Magic items that the CS has confiscated?
Some kind of significant attack/damage to the CS?

It all comes down to what motivates your players and your characters.

I ran one adventure where my shifter (Killer Cyborg From Heck) had to travel to the Chi-Town burbs (not inside the city proper, but close to the walls) in order to meet with a former mage who had performed the Rite of Odin at the base of Yggdrasil. KC had obtained information tracking this guy down, and was highly interested in discovering a way to get to Yggdrasil, as well as the details of the necessary ritual.
So he (as an NPC) and a group of comrades (the PCs) went to The Burbs, dodging dog-boy patrols, in order to find this mage and talk to him. The former mage had been badly damaged by the rite, to the point where he required massive bionic and cybernetic replacement in order to survive--replacements so extensive that he could no longer perform the magic that he had risked his life to obtain. He was difficult to talk to--in part because of multiple insanities--and it took over a week of negotiation and discussion to get any information out of him.
Meanwhile, there were a series of strange murders in the neighborhood that were threatening to attract the attention of the ISS, so the PCs had to try to solve and prevent further crimes for their own safety, preferably without using any powers that would attract dog boys or psi-stalkers.

I could have just as easily placed the adventure inside of Chi-Town itself, since the former mage was now a Borg with only 1d4 PPE and no psychic powers or anything.
I could not have just as easily placed the adventure in Dweomer or some other non-CS city, because the plot revolved around the CS specifically.

Because the campaign we were on revolved around the party acquiring as much power as possible in order try to prevent the incoming dangers described in the Edict of Planetary Distress, I came up with a lure that would interest the PCs and advance the campaign, but would also present a challenge.
But it was based on those specific PC's desires. Other PCs could have other desires.
Maybe a mage is trying to figure out who their parents are, and it turns out they're CS citizens, but the mage still wants to talk to them.
Maybe a Rogue Scholar is looking for some pre-rifts artifacts of no financial value, but of great interest to him/her personlly, and the ruins under Chi-Town happen to be where the item is.
Maybe a City Rat-turned-Juicer is nearing last call, and wants to say goodbye to some of his friends from his hometown level in Chi-Towns downsides.
Maybe a six-fingered man killed a PC's father, and the PC tracks him to Chi-Town's upper levels, and has to travel there to seek revenge.
Maybe the woman that a PC is in love with has been captured by the CS, and is used as a slave of some sort in Chi-Town.
Maybe the droids that you're looking for are there.
Maybe you need the plans to the CS's new death machine, so you can give the resistance a fighting chance.

What motivates PCs other than wealth depends highly on the PCs in question. But almost anything that they want, anything that motivates them could potentially be in Chi-Town.
WHY put it in Chi-Town instead of another city?
Simply because Chi-Town is dangerous, and danger is necessary for adventure.

[Glistam]

Chi-Town levels 1-3 are where the rewards lie.

[Maddux]

There many reason to risk a Chi-town/burbs missions.

1. You left the Coalition deserted but you know have to get your family that has been kicked out of Chi-town to a safe place.

2. Your mercenary boss has been taken to Chi-town for trial (ours was Larsen but any of the merc companies would do)

3. Make a run at the vault if your high enough and have enough firepower.

4. A loved one was needs advanced medical treatment have to sneak them in for the cure.

5. Information or a person have to get out of the city.

Now some of these are retreads but there still good reasons.

[Axelmania]

Chi Town could become a very interesting place if some traveling Nazca Line Maker manages to sneak into the case levels and "create ley line" there.

Not as much of a death sentence as a nexus, but all of a sudden your sensitive can't smell the monsters.

[Nekira Sudacne]

It's okay, they clearly wern't doing a very good job if a Line Maker got in there in the first place

[Shark_Force]

a lot of these things (not all, but a lot) could be accomplished by paying someone who *is* allowed to go to chi-town to go in your stead.

and therein lies the problem. it is far less risky, and the rewards are fairly similar, if you just hire someone who won't get hunted down by the CS just for existing to go to chi-town for you.

for a master psychic or a powerful wizard to get in is hard. for a reasonably-wealthy looking average human being with no psychic powers of note, not nearly as hard. so all you need is someone who can get into CS cities and isn't bothered by the fact that they're dealing with people the CS considers undesirable.

[Axelmania]

All you need for real chaos is mass production of Mystic Invisibility talismans.

[Glistam]

Medicine keeps coming back to my mind.

From a non-magical standpoint, the CS cities have the most advanced medical facilities in North America. What would people "in the know" pay to get their hands on the life-extension drugs?

Restrict all the bio-systems to Chi Town (or CS cities) and make them unavailable in the standard chop-shops. Mage buddy lost his arm? Time for a trip into Chi-Town...

[Blue_Lion]

The thing is there is a level of PPE a human mage needs to have to be detected listed in loan star.

So lets say a human shifter goes into chi town with some guards while drained of PPE. He could have the goal of mapping the inside for teleporting invaders or bombs in.

Smuggeling stuff in and out might be tricky do to security check point, but lesser teleporing something out could be a goal.(one that could be doomed to failure.)

[Proseksword]

I think you're looking at things the wrong way, Nekira.

The purpose of entering Chi-town as a visitor is to escape the wild and wooly world of the 'burbs outside.

Need medical treatment that you can trust and won't leave you with nasty side effects? Go to Chi-Town
Want to escape that demon/gang/hit squad out to get you? What better way than to hide behind the largest army in North America?
Want to buy legitimate goods without the black market mark-up or worrying about what you need being in stock? Chi-Town's always fully supplied.

It is one of the only oasis of calm, peaceful civilization on RIFTs Earth, where the lights are always on, the pantries are always fully stocked, and the demons all stay on the other side of several feet of ferrocrete wall. Any character with any sense that can reasonably pass should be dying to go!

[Axelmania]

The thing is there is a level of PPE a human mage needs to have to be detected listed in loan star.

80 or more is mentioned for Dog Boys on page 33 (just 'in people', not mages specifically) but the Psi-Stalker power on page 158 has no such requirement, so that meant a mage with 1-79 PPE could still be smelled by Psi-Stalkers if not Psi-Hounds. Not sure if 0 would have worked.

Page 145 of RUE still contains the '80 or more' part for Psi-Hounds, that's useful to note.

Page 153 doesn't mention 80 specifically but does mention "both with high PPE". The phrase 80+ is associated with is "large energy reserves" so I guess it's a question as to whether the GM views "large" and "high" to be the same idea.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I think you're looking at things the wrong way, Nekira.

The purpose of entering Chi-town as a visitor is to escape the wild and wooly world of the 'burbs outside.

Need medical treatment that you can trust and won't leave you with nasty side effects? Go to Chi-Town
Want to escape that demon/gang/hit squad out to get you? What better way than to hide behind the largest army in North America?
Want to buy legitimate goods without the black market mark-up or worrying about what you need being in stock? Chi-Town's always fully supplied.

It is one of the only oasis of calm, peaceful civilization on RIFTs Earth, where the lights are always on, the pantries are always fully stocked, and the demons all stay on the other side of several feet of ferrocrete wall. Any character with any sense that can reasonably pass should be dying to go!

Hmmmmm......

This is...actually a really good point.

On that note, DO we have prices anywhere for weapons and armor NOT on the black market?

[Blue_Lion]

To my knowledge the default listing of prices is based on the only open market the black market, but it does say prices varry.

[dragonfett]

I'd say give it up to a 25% markdown or so (you can do more for things on "sale").

[Proseksword]

I'd say give it up to a 25% markdown or so (you can do more for things on "sale").

I'd say closer to 40%, but that's just my feel for it. Chances are most mundane items on black markets outside the city were purchased legitimately within cities like Chi-town and you're paying the merchant for the trouble to safely transporting his goods to wherever you're buying it out in the wild hinterlands.

[Alrik Vas]

Proseksword got to it before me. Tch...

But I'll also add that there are few things better than not having to look over your shoulder when you go out to have fun for the night. A lot of towns out there where your higher level group wanders in and half the inhabitants don't see you, they see the money your gear is worth.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Proseksword got to it before me. Tch...

But I'll also add that there are few things better than not having to look over your shoulder when you go out to have fun for the night. A lot of towns out there where your higher level group wanders in and half the inhabitants don't see you, they see the money your gear is worth.

I think the average town in your game is very different than the average town in my game, sinse we still tend to play most towns don't have any MDC gear at all, and are more likely to be afraid the strange group might decide to just up and take whatever they want, than plotting to take it all themselves.

[Alrik Vas]

The majority of people are nice...

It's a pleasant thing to think. Cyberknights and Glitterboys might get a pass on rep...but people with power tend to be pretty demanding of those who don't. People without power tend to be paranoid of those who do.

These things are pretty well illustrated in the world by two incredibly prevailing factions in Rifts: Bandits and the Coalition, and they are hardly the only ones.

Farmers murder adventuring guests, hide/bury the bodies and sell the gear. Not because they're evil people (at first anyway), but because they fear what your adventuring party is going to do to their community, friends and family, generally because they've seen it happen before. They might not have MD weapons, but you have to sleep and the flesh of your throat is soft and tender.

In big cities, you're often allowed an MD sidearm to protect yourself...but you aren't allowed armor. This makes humans more meat on the table than they were previously. Chi-Town is one of the few places where a powerful security force will ensure no one is armed and they will come crashing down with the fascist heel of the Coalition upon the neck of anyone who causes trouble.

Anyway, I feel like I'm babbling about crap now. If these aren't issues in games you run or play in, you can just disregard it. Not gonna ruin my day.

[flatline]

Farmers murder adventuring guests, hide/bury the bodies and sell the gear.

Never trust the locals. Having a pet dog or bird can be a good way to deter someone from sneaking into your room while you are sleeping. Or having someone keep watch the same as if you were sleeping in the woods.

Of course, my favorite is to sleep inside a dimensional envelope (or not sleep at all if you have access to the proper spells or psionics to be able to do so).

--flatline

[Blue_Lion]

I usally just move heavy furnicher in front of the ways in when I sleep in a town I do not trust.
Had one charter never bothered with any security but he could not be surprised even when asleep. Ninjas and superspies martial arts are good for that.

[flatline]

I usally just move heavy furnicher in front of the ways in when I sleep in a town I do not trust.
Had one charter never bothered with any security but he could not be surprised even when asleep. Ninjas and superspies martial arts are good for that.

Zanshin Awareness?

--flatline

[Vrykolas2k]

Going to the Chi-town 'burbs is a suicide mission.
In the immortal words of Admiral Akbar, "It's a trap!"

[Alrik Vas]

I usally just move heavy furnicher in front of the ways in when I sleep in a town I do not trust.
Had one charter never bothered with any security but he could not be surprised even when asleep. Ninjas and superspies martial arts are good for that.

The Mind like the Moon has a radius. It helps you when people try to shank you from behind, for sure. Not when someone sets the building on fire, or shoots you from more than 21ft away. (Zanshin was 6ft radius +1ft per level, if i recall right).

In any case, a proper GM should give people with Sixth Sense the indication they are in danger, regardless.

And heavy furniture in front of the door is a generally a pretty good move. Assuming the door opens inward.

[Blue_Lion]

I usally just move heavy furnicher in front of the ways in when I sleep in a town I do not trust.
Had one charter never bothered with any security but he could not be surprised even when asleep. Ninjas and superspies martial arts are good for that.

The Mind like the Moon has a radius. It helps you when people try to shank you from behind, for sure. Not when someone sets the building on fire, or shoots you from more than 21ft away. (Zanshin was 6ft radius +1ft per level, if i recall right).

In any case, a proper GM should give people with Sixth Sense the indication they are in danger, regardless.

And heavy furniture in front of the door is a generally a pretty good move. Assuming the door opens inward.

There are two parts to the the power.
Part 1 never surprised.
Part 2 sense chi in a 6' radius +1ft per level. That lets them sense any one in range.

It never says they are surprised by people outside there chi sensing radius.

Setting fire to the building seams a bit extreme for a group of towns people trying to rob you. And it is hard to shoot some one sleeping in a room for more than the walls unless they left the window open. I would assume it is reasonable that a charter would be woke up by heat or smoke. Espically one that trains to be be alert.

[Prysus]

The Mind like the Moon has a radius. It helps you when people try to shank you from behind, for sure. Not when someone sets the building on fire, or shoots you from more than 21ft away. (Zanshin was 6ft radius +1ft per level, if i recall right).

Greetings and Salutations. Just for clarity ...

In my N&S 1st Printing (original book) Blue Lion definitely has a valid interpretation. The wording has it as cannot be surprised and always has initiative (no bonus to rolls, just automatically wins initiative). Then mentions a limited Chi Awareness within the circle. With the order listed and the wording, it could be that the Chi Awareness is the only part limited to the circle.

In my Revised edition (6th Printing) the wording has been changed. The wording of cannot be surprised is removed (or at least moved to the bonus section with the addition of "from behind"). The bonuses are also listed only after it mentions being able to sense anyone who enters the circle.

As for the range ...

6 ft +2 ft per level, so you'd have to be 36+ feet away to avoid the circle (if the character is level 15, and using the Revised version). Of course, this would involve knowing the limits of the circle in character. An equally likely scenario would be something would've triggered the Zanshin Circle early on (even if just on accident), and then suddenly the rumor around town becomes the character can see EVERYTHING.

So how the power is used and its limits will likely depend on which version of the power is being used (along with a bit of interpretation, as with much of the Palladium abilities). Farewell and safe journeys for now.

[H.P. Hovercraft]

Why go into Chi-Town?

I saw a Prada hand-bag there that I just HAD to have!!

[rc_brooks]

I think the Burbs/ChiTown were meant for the scholar/adventurer types rather than dragon hatchlings and cosmo knights that my home group seems to love. That being said, I think properly equipped with some way of truly disguising magic users or Psionics and tweaking the canonical representation of ChiTown you could play it with an almost Dark Sun vibe. Before in our home campaign my players had discovered a spell where their magic aura could truly be hidden. With that the magic users of the group slipped into ChiTown for cloak and dagger style stuff.

Otherwise it would be of very limited use. Of course in our home campaign ChiTown was breached by the demon invasion and is literally broken in half with fighting in the streets... so PC help is welcomed in ChiTown... but that's not canonical.

[Glistam]

I was thinking about this the other day and a random thought occurred to me... Rather than focus on how much it costs for the PC's to buy the passes to enter the city of Chi-Town and why they would do that, I think it'd be a rather amazing hook to have someone present the PC's with passes that have already been purchased and paid for, which let them enter the city for a day! They come with instructions of where and when to meet with a certain individual, but little other information. It seems like a big expense to be a trap. For what reason would someone have to want to talk with the PC's? This could be the start of a great partnership, a grand adventure, or a one-time deal which ends in a double-cross. The only way to know... is to accept the passes and meet this mysterious person.

Back to the original premise though, I think the courier stuff is another interesting angle. Coalition cities can't really have "mail" (no literacy), so how do people get messages to each other? By messenger or courier! And there have got to be many people outside the city looking to have messages sent to people within the city. Enter the PC's. A simple delivery of bringing something into the city could be the hook for further adventures. What if they see something amazing while inside that they want to go back and get? What if things go horribly wrong somehow and now what was a simple task becomes so much more complicated?

[HWalsh]

Okay folks, this is a question that's kinda bugged me sinse the eairly days of Rifts.

It's pretty clear that the Burbs/Chi Town was intended to be someplace players were intended to be able to go to play. the burbs are offically a free no-mans-land where D-bees and magic users can skate under the CS's radar so long as they are careful to not do anything to call the Fuzz down on them. There are a lot of rules about the Black Market, a lot of discription of the various levels of Chi-Town, and detailed information on how much it costs to get day passes for characters to enter from the burbs, up to and including authorization for magic using characters to be escorted in under heavy guard!

and yet...I can't remember any time anyone seriously mentioned wanting to go to Chi-Town, who wasn't actually playing a CS character in a pro-CS centered game. For all the word count, there's just nothing stated to be there that would be a draw to characters with the kind of cash and connections needed to get in in the first place.

Am I missing something? Are there attractions i've overlooked? Barring that, what kind of attractions COULD there be?

This is basically a thread about making Chi-Town/Burbs a playable arena for medium to high powered characters--what ideas do you have, cannonical or not, for making Chi-Town an attractive place to shell out the equivlent of an MDC rifle, just to get in for a day?

There are some reasons a non-CS character might want to go into Chi-Town.

Some of these range from the completely legal - A character needs surgery of some sort and Chi-Town doctors are a lot safer than going to a body fixer or cyber-doc in the wastes. A character is a courier and is picking up, or delivering something to, someone in Chi-Town. A character is being hired to do something by someone in Chi-Town.

Some of these are the complete opposite - There is a high bounty for someone inside Chi-Town and it is worth it to collect it. A character is picking something up, sneaking someone out, or otherwise doing something illegal that requires entry.

Here are a few of the ones I have used:

For Evil PCs -

John Task is a loyal member of the CS, incredibly loyal, and well known for it and his successful business. He wants to hire a group of mercenaries for a delicate mission. For all of his talk about hating deebees and how the only good deebee is a dead deebee, he certainly like to visit a certain Elven brothel when he's doing business trips. So far this hasn't been a problem, until now, it seems that Mr. Trask has born a son, a half human, half elven son, by one of the ladies he liked to meet with. This situation needs to be dealt with, and he can't trust anyone in Chi-Town to know his dirty little secret.

For Good PCs -

Nathan Liner was a CS Engineer until he found out about the Tolkeen death camps. While he might not like deebees he didn't like the idea of what they were doing. He was working on a new weapon, a powerful and dangerous weapon, at the time. A new type of bomb that, he was told, was going to be used against the Xiticix. He was lied to. The CS used it against a town in Minnesota, one that Nathan knew had normal humans in it. There might have been some magic users, but this weapon was too terrible to be unleashed save for on anything that wasn't wholly alien. Fortunately the device didn't function, regardless the fact that they were going to use it was enough and he defected. He took as much research with him as he could and destroyed it, but has since learned that the CS was able to recreate the research. Nathan Liner is gone now, he took his own life, however he left a video recording, payment, and all of the information he could about where the lab is, what the security is, and how to get in... His dying wish is that someone infiltrate Chi-Town, break into the lab, and destroy the research before that terrible weapon is completed.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I think the Burbs/ChiTown were meant for the scholar/adventurer types rather than dragon hatchlings and cosmo knights that my home group seems to love. That being said, I think properly equipped with some way of truly disguising magic users or Psionics and tweaking the canonical representation of ChiTown you could play it with an almost Dark Sun vibe. Before in our home campaign my players had discovered a spell where their magic aura could truly be hidden. With that the magic users of the group slipped into ChiTown for cloak and dagger style stuff.

Otherwise it would be of very limited use. Of course in our home campaign ChiTown was breached by the demon invasion and is literally broken in half with fighting in the streets... so PC help is welcomed in ChiTown... but that's not canonical.

Mystic Invisibility - already exists. It's in Adventure Sourcebook 5 - Mercenary Adventures, as part of the "Combat Magic" section (which is supposedly just "primitive" invocations, despite the list containing some of the best low level incantations in the game).

Does exactly what you're talking about. You can pop Mystic Invis and walk right up to a Dog Boy and be good to go.

Combine Mystic Invis + Invisibility to Sensors + Invisibility (simple or superior) and you can literally walk straight in without anyone knowing anything at all (well, youll have to accompany someone since the door sensors wont see you and wont open).

[kaid]

Most of the in chi town adventuring stuff I think would be along the shadowrun type job line. Exfiltrating somebody who wants to leave but may not be allowed to do so or is in danger of being discovered for some crime. Information is probably going to be one of the main reasons to go. Fortress cities have some of the most involved data networks left and chitown is one of the biggest ones left on the planet. Knowledge is power and given you pretty much need to be in the city to access the pathways to acquire the data that is a pretty powerful reason to be there.

And as others have said it basically is like elysium it is the biggest city in north america that is a huge armored fortress. For normal humans if you can get in it is the safest/cleanest most full featured place you could go. It would be basically paradise as long as you can stomach following the rules.

[kaid]

I think the Burbs/ChiTown were meant for the scholar/adventurer types rather than dragon hatchlings and cosmo knights that my home group seems to love. That being said, I think properly equipped with some way of truly disguising magic users or Psionics and tweaking the canonical representation of ChiTown you could play it with an almost Dark Sun vibe. Before in our home campaign my players had discovered a spell where their magic aura could truly be hidden. With that the magic users of the group slipped into ChiTown for cloak and dagger style stuff.

Otherwise it would be of very limited use. Of course in our home campaign ChiTown was breached by the demon invasion and is literally broken in half with fighting in the streets... so PC help is welcomed in ChiTown... but that's not canonical.

Mystic Invisibility - already exists. It's in Adventure Sourcebook 5 - Mercenary Adventures, as part of the "Combat Magic" section (which is supposedly just "primitive" invocations, despite the list containing some of the best low level incantations in the game).

Does exactly what you're talking about. You can pop Mystic Invis and walk right up to a Dog Boy and be good to go.

Combine Mystic Invis + Invisibility to Sensors + Invisibility (simple or superior) and you can literally walk straight in without anyone knowing anything at all (well, youll have to accompany someone since the door sensors wont see you and wont open).

One thing to note is some of the better forms of invis do offer some chance to get in the CS uses dog boys for a reason. They may not be able to see you but does your invis totally cloak your scent? Also how long can you maintain it without having to recast it given the lines at the gates how long can you wait to slip in unseen. And how alert are CS guards to people being mysteriously bumped by somebody unseen. Recasting invis or any spell like that anywhere near the gates is going to bring out a full lock down situation and armed response so its not like you can just go pop invis right before you get to the gate area.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I think the Burbs/ChiTown were meant for the scholar/adventurer types rather than dragon hatchlings and cosmo knights that my home group seems to love. That being said, I think properly equipped with some way of truly disguising magic users or Psionics and tweaking the canonical representation of ChiTown you could play it with an almost Dark Sun vibe. Before in our home campaign my players had discovered a spell where their magic aura could truly be hidden. With that the magic users of the group slipped into ChiTown for cloak and dagger style stuff.

Otherwise it would be of very limited use. Of course in our home campaign ChiTown was breached by the demon invasion and is literally broken in half with fighting in the streets... so PC help is welcomed in ChiTown... but that's not canonical.

Mystic Invisibility - already exists. It's in Adventure Sourcebook 5 - Mercenary Adventures, as part of the "Combat Magic" section (which is supposedly just "primitive" invocations, despite the list containing some of the best low level incantations in the game).

Does exactly what you're talking about. You can pop Mystic Invis and walk right up to a Dog Boy and be good to go.

Combine Mystic Invis + Invisibility to Sensors + Invisibility (simple or superior) and you can literally walk straight in without anyone knowing anything at all (well, youll have to accompany someone since the door sensors wont see you and wont open).

One thing to note is some of the better forms of invis do offer some chance to get in the CS uses dog boys for a reason. They may not be able to see you but does your invis totally cloak your scent? Also how long can you maintain it without having to recast it given the lines at the gates how long can you wait to slip in unseen. And how alert are CS guards to people being mysteriously bumped by somebody unseen. Recasting invis or any spell like that anywhere near the gates is going to bring out a full lock down situation and armed response so its not like you can just go pop invis right before you get to the gate area.

Mystic invisibility renders you completely immune to Dog Boy senses. Or being seen by See the Invisible, or any other psionic and magic means of detection.

Combined with Invisibility to Sensors (makes you completely invisible/undetectable to any sensor other than the Mark 1 Eyeball - this is also from AS5) and any form of Invisibility that makes you invisible to the naked eye...

The only downfall, as both you and I already pointed out, is that it may take some time for you to sneak through the line and into a door because the doors wont open for you. As for recasting - you only have to worry about being heard. Invisibility is not broken by spellcasting (and never has been, unless it is an offensive action and even then - only breaks Invisibilty: Superior. Simple Invis isnt.) P.P.E. to recast the spells (they cost in the 20s each) may be an issue, but there are plenty of ways around that, if you're planning ahead.

Probably easier to go through the a loading dock area, honestly, as there's a lot less likely to be any kind of backup on the people-sized ingresses into the city from those areas.

[Killer Cyborg]

Mystic invisibility renders you completely immune to Dog Boy senses.

Does the spell render itself immune to Dog Boy senses?

[glitterboy2098]

Mystic invisibility renders you completely immune to Dog Boy senses.

Does the spell render itself immune to Dog Boy senses?

it almost has to, or it would be the most useless spell ever developed.

[boring7]

Funny thing about "medium to high-power adventurers" is that adventuring is actually HARDER for them in Chi-town, because their "high" powers are essentially useless (oh sure, you can cut a tank in half, but that brings in the CS army's limitless hordes) and very few of the high power OCCs/RCCs have much in the way of "versatile, low-level powers."

Of course, that's part of the fun, I suppose. Suddenly the one guy who rolled Super-Spy instead of Cosmo-knight (extreme example) gets to shine.

So, the why:

-There's a job there (lots of examples already given. From courier to extraction to assassination).
-The PCs need to hide there (Big Bad put out a bounty and the only place no one would think to chase it is Chi-town)
-The guy(s) the PCs are chasing already decided to hide there. Arguably part of "there's a job there."

The how:

-Almost required that they find some "coyote" to get them across the border, gotta convince her to help too.
-Getting inside means dropping all the "murderhobo" brands of transportation, weaponry, and armor; ATVs stand out inside what is nominally a city.
-Generally going to need a guide, which means interacting with an NPC who may or may not be trustworthy
-Often have to come up with backup plans for silencing witnesses when the typical murderhobo solution (kill everything) just brings the limitless hordes
-Maybe get side-tracked with little Timmy's sick aunt.
-Lots of need for more cautious investigation.

Actually, I'm reminded of the difference between Dark Heresy (where you have to investigate, and finding monsters probably kills you) and Rogue Trader (where you have Orbital Lance strikes on tap and monsters are often just loot pinatas).

The biggest challenge becomes the fact that a large percentage of your character is irrelevant. Yes, you are a chemically-augmented super-warrior who can kick tanks to death; but since 90% of the adventure involves NOT attracting attention you are a slightly less effective than the Vagabond, who at least has his magic lie-detection ability and probably a few more relevant skills (and given how leveling works, possibly at a higher percentage). There isn't a particularly good solution for that, either. The best you can do is find ways to not really be in Chi-town (like, under it fighting CHUDs or something) or make sure that the PCs work out ways to hide or "use on the sly" their powers.

Tangent: there was a thread a while back about "you get to have a really powerful character in a party of low-tier OCCs (city rats and the like), but you have to keep your powers secret." I figured that the best option would be a Mind-Melter who pretended to be a vagabond that rolled up the healing super-psychic power during chargen. Sensitive powers would be used to fake "eyeball a fella", mental manipulation would be played off as either successfully making a social skill check or the target simply being clumsy/foolish (e.g. Rowdy #3 of the gang shooting at the party doesn't shoot himself or his friends, he just charges with his knife and a berserker scream, trips as he leap-attacks, and falls on his own knife by accident). No one asks why their hobo needs to hide from dog boys (he's a psychic healer) and everybody likes him (he's a psychic *healer*).

Anyways, yeah. It helps if the Players know ahead of time that they need to create the character with some abilities to "do the subtle".


A few more examples of "jobs to be done in Chi-town"
-Need to find out what happened to a Black Market agent who has gone quiet.
-Need to tell the CS about something (like the existence of the Vampire Kingdoms) without getting killed by them.
-Need to make contact and then negotiate with CS intelligence regarding their secret magic force.

In fact I'm going to expand on that one. A campaign plot I have percolating around in my head involves the Disavowed, the Vanguard, the Minion War, and the PCs. Basically a cryptic and prophetic bit of info (perhaps from Yorick, since I think his fate is undetermined) sets the PCs on a path to bring the CS' two secret magic agencies together, convince them they actually NEED to work with outsiders (I don't know that either are going to have access to a Shifter-like OCC) in order to run crippling operations against the Minion War invasion pathways and then launch strikes into Hades and Dyvval. Macguffin hunting, tense negotiations, a few climactic battles, and finally a pair of assassination missions that strike the Demon and Deevil kings themselves.

...it at least STARTS with running around Chi-town, even if it doesn't stay there. The gang even has to come back when the Disavowed are denied access to a needed Macguffin deep in a Chi-town vault. Or when a demon cult manages to subvert a CS leader. Or when one of the outsiders that was allowed in turns out to be a Retribution Squad member.

Speaking of which:
-Need to find and backtrace Vanguard agents before they set off a SERIOUS terror attack (nuke, or magic nuke) in Lazlo.
-Need to find/WARN the Vanguard that some of their members have been subverted by the Deevils.
-Need to obtain (steal) a deceptively valuable macguffin from a Black Vault. (I think there are multiple Black Vaults?)

and now I need to go to bed.