Demonic Adversaries

[Grell]

Demons have a multitude of natural advantages at their disposal, but like a mortal adversary, I'm sure they also have their own toys and tricks.

What kind of equipment do your demonic adversaries carry with themselves against the player characters?

Do you use them as written or do you add your own special adjustments or changes?

How do you run demons in your game? What kinds of demons do you prefer?

I look forward to hearing the insight from my fellow game masters.

[say652]

I use the Mystically Bestowed abilities power category, well sort of.

They have a human host, that is just a normal person no magic or psionic etc,Then Blammo Grandma at the Counter becomes a Greater Demon of your choice.

Then after stomping on the pc's it transforms back into Grandma gathers her groceries and waffles away.

[Grell]

Thanks for your reply! How often do your players try and save the poor soul that plays host to their demonic guest? There's a willing host/demon NPC in Creatures of Chaos, I think. Can't remember the name at the moment, but that sounds like the same basic idea though.

I used a pair of NPCs that were possessed by two Lost Souls (from Hades) in a Chaos Earth game once. I ruled that the possession had turned the two NPCs into minor mega damage beings (HP+SDC, as I recall) and that the Lost Souls would still retain the use of their own psychic abilities. They managed to capture the player characters involved in the encounter and proceeded to psychologically torture them until they managed to escape. They even managed to kill one of the NPC hosts in the process, but still left the possessing demon free to taunt and harass them later.

Things definitely got dark for a while there...

[say652]

I have the Demonic shell register as 100% normal human.
But I'm also kind of hard on my heroes unlimited players.
Rifts I'm actually kind of nice in, everything is dangerous there.

[Nekira Sudacne]

I have the Demonic shell register as 100% normal human.
But I'm also kind of hard on my heroes unlimited players.
Rifts I'm actually kind of nice in, everything is dangerous there.

What if the character specifically got that abnormal sense power that senses demons? or did just no one take it?

[say652]

Since the human form is normal human. How would it detect a Demon that's not there?

Similiar to the hero with the Q Bands that switched places with the sidekick guy Rick.

Pm if you can't deduce the character.

[Alrik Vas]

Different demons use different tactics. Alu I usually have be a little sneaky. They'll creep up on you and try to make you a meal, but they aren't generally stupid and won't engage strong opponents on equal footing, preferring to wait until a party has camped out and sending a slave in to get them to lower their guard.

Things like baalrog, greater demons, if alone will be similarly sneaky. They love to dominate others with their presence, so they'll try to wear you down one at a time where they have the advantage. If they've got minions it's usually much more simple, they'll use the underlings to soften their prey up, then fly in invisibly to take key targets (usually mages) by surprise.

Then super scary stuff like demon locusts will never fight unless someone directly forces it, preferring to use their magic to cause problems and escape constantly. This is pretty effective as they have high MDC so they're really tough to kill while escaping.

I usually give gear to creatures that have been on rifts earth a while. They'll use tech, certain armor, they love magic items and TW gear. I once had a baalrog with a battle fury blade. My players ran from him every time he got into melee range. Every time.

[Shorty Lickens]

In my game, demons usually rely on subterfuge and manipulation for most of their plots. They wouldnt reveal themselves until the last possible moment, either when things are going really well, or horribly bad. Maybe they wanna feed on the blood of a great warrior, or show off their impressive power to invoke fear or loyalty.

As for equipment, they'd probably prefer items which cause terror or pain, or at the very least are debilitating. Definitely flashy and awe-inspiring.
In other words they act more like a supernatural intelligence as opposed to a typical monster. But they might go Monster if the particular situation calls for it.

On an unrelated note: Dark Conversions is the best Rifts book EVER!

[Nekira Sudacne]

In my game, demons usually rely on subterfuge and manipulation for most of their plots. They wouldnt reveal themselves until the last possible moment, either when things are going really well, or horribly bad. Maybe they wanna feed on the blood of a great warrior, or show off their impressive power to invoke fear or loyalty.

As for equipment, they'd probably prefer items which cause terror or pain, or at the very least are debilitating. Definitely flashy and awe-inspiring.
In other words they act more like a supernatural intelligence as opposed to a typical monster. But they might go Monster if the particular situation calls for it.

On an unrelated note: Dark Conversions is the best Rifts book EVER!

What about the demons that are discribed as being particularlly stupid/brutish and having low IQ?

[Shorty Lickens]

Lesser demons would probably be in the employ of some greater power.
Dumb creatures generally cant survive on their own for too long. They either get smart, or get help.

You could argue that maybe a gang of lesser demons are running loose after their previous master was slain.

[RainbowDevil]

At this stage my AtB2group (After the Bomb, but with BtS2 elements and classes in it) has only just encountered a few minor demons (mostly demon will o wisps and a boogeyman from BtS2), although there were a few other demons in the adventure with the wisps (ie it was a rave that turned horrible when a rift opened) that were hiding, one being a succubus/dar'ota. I gave her an amulet that conceals her aura including her *supernatural evil* aura (not cannon, I know, but it's good to be the GM! ). I think something like that is crucial for a more covert supernatural critter. Otherwise any sensitives can simply use sense evil and figure out that the creature isn't what it appears to be.

At this stage I hadn't thought much about different medieval/magic weapons for my demons, although they will be discovering an entire city soon that is basically a junkyard and testing ground for the demon prince of technology to play around in. Think a demonic absent-minded scientist constantly creating new prototype weapons that frequently have devastating consequences (to the target as well as the firer). Also think many other demons (willing and unwilling) running around using these weapons, not really sure what exactly it's going to do! Mind you, it may not just be weapons, but other gadgets. Luckily the Prince is happy to just sit in his junkyard and create, and doesn't really have any plans on conquest.

RD

[Nekira Sudacne]

Lesser demons would probably be in the employ of some greater power.
Dumb creatures generally cant survive on their own for too long. They either get smart, or get help.

You could argue that maybe a gang of lesser demons are running loose after their previous master was slain.

Demons reincarnate endlessly when they die, so it's not like a stupid demon dying idiotically removes them from the demon pool. they reincarnate just as stupid as they were before. most demons are only levels 4-6 dispite being alive for tens of thousands of years, so it's not like they are known for learning from their mistakes either.

I'm not saying there are not mastermind level demons. I'm saying given what we're given, really smart demons are the exception and not the rule.

[Grell]

Thanks for all the replies!

In my game, demons usually rely on subterfuge and manipulation for most of their plots. They wouldnt reveal themselves until the last possible moment, either when things are going really well, or horribly bad. Maybe they wanna feed on the blood of a great warrior, or show off their impressive power to invoke fear or loyalty.

Are these primarily from the Greater castes or is this a universal trait of demonkind in your games?

As for equipment, they'd probably prefer items which cause terror or pain, or at the very least are debilitating. Definitely flashy and awe-inspiring.
In other words they act more like a supernatural intelligence as opposed to a typical monster. But they might go Monster if the particular situation calls for it.

There's definitely something to be said for sending a message! Do your demons take any defensive preparations? My greater demons will usually try and influence the time, place and environment where their battles occur to give them the greatest edge. Conventional means of defense are fine for minions, but not worth the loss of "street cred" if you're the one in charge.

On an unrelated note: Dark Conversions is the best Rifts book EVER!

TRUTH.

[SolCannibal]

Lesser demons would probably be in the employ of some greater power.
Dumb creatures generally cant survive on their own for too long. They either get smart, or get help.

You could argue that maybe a gang of lesser demons are running loose after their previous master was slain.

Demons reincarnate endlessly when they die, so it's not like a stupid demon dying idiotically removes them from the demon pool. they reincarnate just as stupid as they were before. most demons are only levels 4-6 dispite being alive for tens of thousands of years, so it's not like they are known for learning from their mistakes either.

I'm not saying there are not mastermind level demons. I'm saying given what we're given, really smart demons are the exception and not the rule.

I wouldn't say stupid per se, but careless, overconfident, and consequently somewhat risk-taking & sloppy seems to be more of the norm. What is kind of understandable when they have "MMO character immortality" as an innate quality as a group.

[Alrik Vas]

I wouldn't say stupid per se, but careless, overconfident, and consequently somewhat risk-taking & sloppy seems to be more of the norm. What is kind of understandable when they have "MMO character immortality" as an innate quality as a group.

This is also why I hate spells that raise the dead. As soon as it comes into play, death really doesn't matter anymore and you can really go, "Wonder if I can take him solo..." because you don't fear consequence.

Which is why soulmancy. Got a soul to resurrect? Cool! Oh, wait, it's actually kind of delicious...you're not getting this back. *nomnomnom*

[SolCannibal]

As aside to the subject but somewhat related, while perusing some stuff from the old Conversion Book, i had my attention caught by the old circle magic stuff, specifically these bits:

- "Protection from Demons" will hold at bay banshees, boschala, dybbuk, demon spiders, gargoyles, ghouls, hell hounds, and the lesser minions of Hades, what makes for a quite interesting listing.
The version of the text in PF does expand it to "all supernatural creatures known to be members of the Demon pantheon/family or living in the planes of Hades, including gargoyles, gurgoyles, gargoylites and dimensional ghouls", what is funny in that it explains gargoyles, dimensional ghouls and banshees, while leaving all others unexplained.

- "Protection from Devils" will hold at bay dar'ota, malignous, deevils, devilkins, and fiends, making this a very interesting piece of fluff as, unlike demon, devil (or deevil) is not a word that gets thrown around for any supernatural evil creature, making a stronger case for their correlation to the natives of Dyval.
The PF version of the text is mostly the same, except for the minor detail of calling deevils "beings from the plane of Hel)", it seems to reinforce the idea of Dar'ota, and Malignous as "devils though not of the family/pantheon."

But the really fun/informative ones to me are:

Protection from Evil: "Includes golems, gremlins, sowki, goqua and mindolar."
Because somehow golems seem to be inherently evil, for reasons...

Summon Serpents: Includes the Worms of Taut, serpent of the wind (dragon) and kukulcan (dragon), as well as normal type snakes. Does not work on snake-like D-Bees.
I find it funny that some dragons count but others do not as "serpentine" for the sake of this summoning circle. Doubly so that the Kukulcan, that look far more griffin than dragon to me, are among the ones listed.

Also interestingly, the Jinn get a protection circle all of their own, in the PF book, what is most curious as all other circles seem to involve groupings of multiple races/kind of beings, what might imply the elemental separation of Jinns has more to it than mere visuals, or at some point in the past of the Palladium there existed a "Jinn family/pantheon" that was a major threat for summoners and other magicians of that world to account for.

[Nekira Sudacne]

The reason Jinn got their own circle is because in Palladium fantasy first edition, Jinn were the result of demons and deevil's breeding with each-other, and so were actually demon/deevil halfbreeds, making the circles against either by themselves ineffective.

[SolCannibal]

The reason Jinn got their own circle is because in Palladium fantasy first edition, Jinn were the result of demons and deevil's breeding with each-other, and so were actually demon/deevil halfbreeds, making the circles against either by themselves ineffective.

Oh, that was something i had no idea whatsoever about, thanks for bringing it up. The potential for countless Jinn breed variants, depending on the specific demons & deevils used for parents boggles the mind - supposing that any parent/child correlation exists and the combination do not all result in one specific form of being/weirdness, there's some restriction to what critters may spawn Jinn or whatever. Anyway, ridiculous large potential room for homebrewing in that, it seems.

It might even sort of explain the apparently head-scratching connection to the power words of two Old Ones (Erva and Ya-ahk-met respectively) even: the two of them possibly being "Jinn breeding/blender enthusiasts" of sorts the Great Old Ones, experimenting with spawning all kinds of combinations and variants of beings through such demon/deevil couplings to see what sort of new minions and resources might be generated from this.

[Nekira Sudacne]

More or less, Yes. The current 4 elemental varaities are probablly just the result of the most common pairing resulting in them being most numerous.

[SolCannibal]

Makes me wish i had the 1st ed PF just to see what kind of fluff tidbits and such i might mine from it by comparing with other books. But then as my previous posts show, i have barely scratched the surface when it comes to Rifts x PF, so it can most certainly wait.

[Ice Dragon]

Demons/Deevil it depends. A lord/master will have magic devices/items even an evil rune weapon.

They will use their lieutants to lead from the front line and stay behind to manipulate their pawns.

The player group may see their main andagonist some time but normally will not catch him/her/it until the final battle.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Demons/Deevil it depends. A lord/master will have magic devices/items even an evil rune weapon.

They will use their lieutants to lead from the front line and stay behind to manipulate their pawns.

The player group may see their main andagonist some time but normally will not catch him/her/it until the final battle.

I dunno. Some parties might get tired of the game and try a raid on their evil fortress directly

[Ice Dragon]

Demons/Deevil it depends. A lord/master will have magic devices/items even an evil rune weapon.

They will use their lieutants to lead from the front line and stay behind to manipulate their pawns.

The player group may see their main andagonist some time but normally will not catch him/her/it until the final battle.

I dunno. Some parties might get tired of the game and try a raid on their evil fortress directly

Could happen , but if they are not prepared they will die or if luck, captured .