Do the fans really want the original cast?

[Robroy]

For some reason I have been reading about Robotech, Harmony Gold, and the Academy kickstarter. It seems that almost all the critics think the fans want Sentenals so we can see Rick, Lisa, and the others. Is this true? I ask because, personally I couldn't care less about them. If HG were to do Sentenals I would like the focus to be on new characters in the trenches.

Am I alone in this?

[taalismn]

I'd like to see the old cast, even though we'd be likely to see rather aged and nearly unrecognizable versions of them in order to skirt copyrights on the original Macross characters. Part of it is that I watched the OS from the beginning of my infatuation with both the series and animation. I kinda want(ed) to see how they turned out. After the rather grimdark treatment they get in PTSC and SC(lost their child and ability to have children, the whole Neutron-S fiasco, last seen drifting towards a black hole, no contact since and their legacy virtually destroyed with the whole 'our only protoculture matrix aboard the SDF-3, etc.), I'd kinda like to see them reach better circumstances. But that's just me(and admittedly in a melancholy mood).
I can understand though, that newer fans and disillusioned older fans might see any new arcs dragged down/held back by the shadow of the 'old gang' who may not be relevant to a fresher storyline dominated by the Grants, the Bernards, the Rushes, and the new generation Sterling.

[Jefffar]

The Macross Saga segment of the show has, for good or ill, been the segment that has had the most resonance within the fan community. So that there would be a portion of the fan community that would like to see the continuation of the story arcs of those characters is unsurprising.

It's sort of like how people went to the latest star wars movie because of Han, Leia and Luke, ignoring that these are now supporting characters to Finn, Poe and Rey.

[Seto Kaiba]

For some reason I have been reading about Robotech, Harmony Gold, and the Academy kickstarter. It seems that almost all the critics think the fans want Sentenals so we can see Rick, Lisa, and the others. Is this true? I ask because, personally I couldn't care less about them. If HG were to do Sentenals I would like the focus to be on new characters in the trenches.

Am I alone in this?

Well, I wouldn't say you're alone in holding that view... but that particular view is only held by a small minority of fans. (Though the percentage is likely increasing as the fandom shrinks.)

From a very early point, the "creators" of Robotech noticed that Macross was the fan favorite by an enormous margin... and they've historically been fairly open about that knowledge having a fairly significant influence on the development of new Robotech properties. The failures of Robotech: the Untold Story, Robotech 3000, and Robotech Academy were all attributed in part to them having had no direct connection to the continuing adventures of the Macross Saga holdover cast, and both the canceled Robotech II: the Sentinels and the canceled Robotech: the Shadow Chronicles OVA sold themselves principally on being "the continuing adventures of Rick Hunter and company". Even the new characters created for Sentinels and Shadow Chronicles were rather blatant expies of the Macross cast.

The vast majority of the franchise's merchandising reflects this obsession, being predominantly Macross-based. The disparity in popularity between sagas was so great that the New Generation's merchandise didn't sell well (the New Gen MPC line killed the Masterpiece collection, ending with a 66% reduction in limited edition production volumes, some of which are STILL not sold out after over five years) and Toynami rejected the idea of Masters Saga merchandise on the grounds that projected sales were too poor to justify the effort.

[Lt Gargoyle]

I'd love to see the sentinels continue the story, however It would have to introduce new characters, like jack baker and and Karen Penn. to help the storyline progress and begin the switch between the old and new. (newer)
like many others I did not like the shadow chronicles. Maybe because it seemed rushed and the ending was so horrible. The whole rewriting the sympathy of light, seemed unnecessary, and a waste of time. The haydonites felt weak as a villain.

[Malleustein]

I first saw The New Generation era of the show, so the characters from there appeal to me much more (except for Annie, obviously) in a nostalgic way. Though I would argue that they are among the more strongly nuanced and better written of Robotech as a whole too, very much an issue of how the different shows were combined.

However, Macross has the bigger share of public awareness. It remains relevant due to the ongoing Japanese anime and has greater controversy due to the absolute farce of ownership rights around the world. This means that no matter how little Harmony Gold can do with it, Macross is never going away and it is no wonder they cling to every bit of it they own. But that does make using the existing characters hard.

It is also a matter, common with any IP, that the audience latches onto the first wave of protagonists and antagonists. While I would argue the Mecha are the most memorable aspect of Macross (at least in a positive sense), there is obviously a long-lasting attachment to the surviving characters.

Ultimately, Robotech lives in the shadow of Macross and it has proven hard to move out from under it. This isn't only a concern for using the Macross saga characters, but massively affects any attempt to do so or to move beyond them. I suspect Harmony Gold, as it is now, is simply not up to the job of moving forward and are probably still pinning hopes on the on-again, off-again movie. If it happens (and does well), the "original" cast will be more prominent, attached to a revised storyline and redesigned mecha (that won't trigger legal action) that can be used more easily.

[Robroy]

I agree that Macross is the favorite part of Robotech among fans. I just feel like the characters story arc have peaked. Sure if Sentenals was made I could see them in a supporting role, but not much beyond that.

I was that weird kid that did not like other kids. The first half of Macross and Masters I was thinking Rick, Lisa, and Dana needed a kick in the butt. Maybe it was to show their growth, but it is why I liked Roy, Nova, and Scott more.

@Seto that explains why I can't find a hover tank besides the Exo Squad for way to much money.

[ShadowLogan]

No I do not want the original cast to keep popping up as the main focus selling point. Sure they can make references to them (ex "Admiral Rick Hunter" gets mentioned several times in NG), but there really isn't a need to bring them back.

Robotech from the beginning took the form of a hybrid anthology series given it would have to splice 3 unrelated shows together. The format sort of implies they do their story and then we move on to a new group.

[glitterboy2098]

i would say that right now more people want to know "what happens after shadow chronicles"

[taalismn]

I was that weird kid that did not like other kids. The first half of Macross and Masters I was thinking Rick, Lisa, and Dana needed a kick in the butt. Maybe it was to show their growth, but it is why I liked Roy, Nova, and Scott more..

Well...everybody loved Roy...even the enemy...loved him to death, in fact. Though I always though Claudia was the really cool one...

Nova was exotic, and had that whole 'woman in charge and in black clothing' going...like Joan Jett in a uniform....but I still have a bone to pick with her showing Zor Prime classified documents..

Scott...Scott was the guy who THOUGHT he had everything under control, everything was going according to plan, and then he loses just about everything...except his mission. He's the strong, but vulnerable, guy who manages to overcome both a hostile world and his own shattered expectations....We saw in the original Macross saga Rick setting aside his objections to killing, because it was a time to be a warrior. In Scott Bernard's case, we see a warrior learning that there is a time NOT to kill.

[Zer0 Kay]

But what if Shadow Chronicles is won by the SDF-3 being retrieved and Lisa bringing the Sentinels as back up. Or maybe the reason the Haydonites "retreated" wasn't because the UEEF, and freedom fighters pushed them back, but because they were called back because the Sentinels are laying siege to Haydon IV. Giving the UEEF enough time to get Rick, as someone should know what he was doing so he isnt lost so much as his location is classified. Then one or more of the Invid Prince(sse)s track down the Regis and act as humanities ambassadors in order to convince the Regis that mankind isn't of the shadow, but duped by the shadow, just as she was, and that she, as the light, should side with the humans. The Regis returns. Someone convinces her that the previous combat she fought was primarily based on anger and other emotions, successful only because of sheer numbers and with proper tactics she would have lost far less of her children. Her heart breaks at this realization and she feels shame, having previously convinced herself that using her children in such a way was necessary. Now willing to learn from the humans she finds that there is a methodology to combat to reduce the cost of lives and that many civilized races don't require total obliteration to surrender but must just be pushed to the point of an unacceptable loss of life, which is usually all when the outcome is known to be slavery or obliteration, but far less if there are less severe outcomes. With the human education of war bestowed upon her and design knowledge from humans she builds a new human Invid fleet. With permission to grow and cultivate the FoL on Earth and some added human knowledge she turns the FoL into a new Industry with her lower level Invid acting as farmers, like they used to before Zor, while the princes(sse)s and humans take up the mantle of guardians. She greatly increases the number of Invid "royalty" to work with the humans in the military and the combined forces are now large enough to leave half home while the other half goes to Haydon IV to releave the Sentinels.

This also continues the Robotech theme of our previous enemy is now our ally.

Edit: there I think I got most of my phones auto"corrects".

[taalismn]

Haydonites aren't sexy enough to benefit from the 'love your enemy and turn them to our side' or 'exotic love interest' trope/ strategy...unless Janice has a twin sister on the other side, or the scriptwriters allow for some really avant-garde relationship-making.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I would rather have an original cast.

Which would mean that all the characters are new and unexplored.
Besides the original cast characters are too senior to be at the spear point stories.

[Zer0 Kay]

Haydonites aren't sexy enough to benefit from the 'love your enemy and turn them to our side' or 'exotic love interest' trope/ strategy...unless Janice has a twin sister on the other side, or the scriptwriters allow for some really avant-garde relationship-making.

Um... Wasn't saying the Haydonites should side with humans. Just the full Invid race instead of just individuals. However Haydon makes the Haydonites that way because they're efficient. Maybe when he learns Janice has more impact on humans than Veidt or Sanna so he starts making them more like the species they're to infiltrate, a tactic more likely taken up IF he is faced with an Invid/Human/Sentinel coalition

[Zer0 Kay]

I would rather have an original cast.

Which would mean that all the characters are new and unexplored.
Besides the original cast characters are too senior to be at the spear point stories.

Spear Pont no. All in possitions like Globalstar. He was prominent but not Primary.

[Zer0 Kay]

I would rather have an original cast.

Which would mean that all the characters are new and unexplored.
Besides the original cast characters are too senior to be at the spear point stories.

The wording of your choice is humorous to me. If you replace 'an' with 'the' it means old character instead of new. Ah the English language where a single word completely changes meaning... but I guess that isn't rare as a single incorrect emPHAsis on the wrong syLABEL completely changes the meaning of a word in Japanese while just making it sound silly in English.

[Seto Kaiba]

I agree that Macross is the favorite part of Robotech among fans. I just feel like the characters story arc have peaked. Sure if Sentenals was made I could see them in a supporting role, but not much beyond that.

In an ironic twist, the creators of Macross actually agree with you wholeheartedly.

When the story arc of the original Macross series and its movie ended with the Macross Flashback 2012 OVA, which depicted events that had originally been storyboarded for the last episode of the TV series, the existing cast of characters was allowed to quietly fade into the background with their stories having reached a satisfying and natural conclusion. This, in turn, made way for various new stories with new casts of characters completely unrelated to the original ones, and each of those new shows has followed suit by having its characters gracefully leave the stage when their moment in the spotlight has ended.

The Robotech metaseries, however, has been subsisting pretty much entirely on nostalgia for a VERY long time... and since most fans are kind of ambivalent towards the New Generation cast and regard the Masters Saga cast with something akin to disgust, the Macross Saga is their only big draw and thus is eternally at the center of events. It's no coincidence that their very worst failures have been the ones where they couldn't draw a direct connection to the holdover Macross Saga cast. Like the characters victimized by the Star Wars expanded universe, Robotech will continue to force those characters onto center stage in every story until well past the point where everything likeable about them has been worn away.

I was that weird kid that did not like other kids. The first half of Macross and Masters I was thinking Rick, Lisa, and Dana needed a kick in the butt. Maybe it was to show their growth, but it is why I liked Roy, Nova, and Scott more.

@Seto that explains why I can't find a hover tank besides the Exo Squad for way to much money.

The shows that made up Robotech were aimed at an approximately high school-aged audience, so the personal drama didn't exactly go over well with younger viewers when the show first aired.

Mind you, it was always going to end up like this. Both Genesis Climber MOSPEADA and Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross were shows created in an attempt to cash in on the success that Macross was enjoying in the early 80's... almost to the extent of being mockbusters or copycat shows. MOSPEADA underwent a significant reworking to place more emphasis upon their transforming fighter design because of the brisk sales of Takatoku's VF-1 toys, ultimately putting the titular MOSPEADA out of focus in its own series. Southern Cross got hit worse... it straight up changed genres from a science fantasy series based on Japan's Sengoku period (based on heraldry, probably the Battle of Mikatagahara) and became a fairly weak mecha anime that did so poorly that the series was canned for its low ratings before it could finish the second of its three planned cours (Ep23 of a planned 39).

[Robroy]

I agree that Macross is the favorite part of Robotech among fans. I just feel like the characters story arc have peaked. Sure if Sentenals was made I could see them in a supporting role, but not much beyond that.

In an ironic twist, the creators of Macross actually agree with you wholeheartedly.

When the story arc of the original Macross series and its movie ended with the Macross Flashback 2012 OVA, which depicted events that had originally been storyboarded for the last episode of the TV series, the existing cast of characters was allowed to quietly fade into the background with their stories having reached a satisfying and natural conclusion. This, in turn, made way for various new stories with new casts of characters completely unrelated to the original ones, and each of those new shows has followed suit by having its characters gracefully leave the stage when their moment in the spotlight has ended.

The Robotech metaseries, however, has been subsisting pretty much entirely on nostalgia for a VERY long time... and since most fans are kind of ambivalent towards the New Generation cast and regard the Masters Saga cast with something akin to disgust, the Macross Saga is their only big draw and thus is eternally at the center of events. It's no coincidence that their very worst failures have been the ones where they couldn't draw a direct connection to the holdover Macross Saga cast. Like the characters victimized by the Star Wars expanded universe, Robotech will continue to force those characters onto center stage in every story until well past the point where everything likeable about them has been worn away.

I was that weird kid that did not like other kids. The first half of Macross and Masters I was thinking Rick, Lisa, and Dana needed a kick in the butt. Maybe it was to show their growth, but it is why I liked Roy, Nova, and Scott more.

@Seto that explains why I can't find a hover tank besides the Exo Squad for way to much money.

The shows that made up Robotech were aimed at an approximately high school-aged audience, so the personal drama didn't exactly go over well with younger viewers when the show first aired.

Mind you, it was always going to end up like this. Both Genesis Climber MOSPEADA and Super Dimension Cavalry Southern Cross were shows created in an attempt to cash in on the success that Macross was enjoying in the early 80's... almost to the extent of being mockbusters or copycat shows. MOSPEADA underwent a significant reworking to place more emphasis upon their transforming fighter design because of the brisk sales of Takatoku's VF-1 toys, ultimately putting the titular MOSPEADA out of focus in its own series. Southern Cross got hit worse... it straight up changed genres from a science fantasy series based on Japan's Sengoku period (based on heraldry, probably the Battle of Mikatagahara) and became a fairly weak mecha anime that did so poorly that the series was canned for its low ratings before it could finish the second of its three planned cours (Ep23 of a planned 39).

Whatever HG does they are going to need decent writers that can do a character driven story. At least in my opinion. Sure I like the tech, but if I can't get into the characters I might as well just buy the art book.

[ShadowLogan]

From a very early point, the "creators" of Robotech noticed that Macross was the fan favorite by an enormous margin... and they've historically been fairly open about that knowledge having a fairly significant influence on the development of new Robotech propertie

Something similar happen with WEP's Voltron in the 80s, which attempted the RT route by combining different series (before RT did it in '85, they did it in '84). The first part of the each properties respective series was the "fan favourite", though WEP unlike HG was able to change course with the animation and produce whole new animated stories (enough to pad out to 72ep total). Voltron was arguably been more successful than RT as it has two follow up TV series (plus a motion comic) and tie-in movie since then (RT's had x3 OVAs, 2 new and 1 mostly old,, and x4 aborted projects IINM, and a movie that was for theatrical release but failed in test screening).

[Alrik Vas]

Ask me ten years ago, I'd say the original cast or bust, give me the Sentinels for crying out loud.

Ask me five years ago, I'd say, "who gives a crap, did you SEE SC? If that's what we can expect from HG, let's just set RT on fire and have done with it."

Me today? "Meh, i'll watch it once, whatever it is, but I don't really care much who or what is in it, it's just nostalgia anyway."

[drewkitty ~..~]

I would rather have an original cast.

Which would mean that all the characters are new and unexplored.
Besides the original cast characters are too senior to be at the spear point stories.

The wording of your choice is humorous to me. If you replace 'an' with 'the' it means old character instead of new. Ah the English language where a single word completely changes meaning... but I guess that isn't rare as a single incorrect emPHAsis on the wrong syLABEL completely changes the meaning of a word in Japanese while just making it sound silly in English.

And here I took a few years of Japanese and was taught that there was no change in word meaning due to Emphasis due to there were no emphasis word changes in the language just like in english. And thus was taught to exclude any emphasis from the pronunciation.

Which does make a anime related joke around the name of a char in the movie Akira and the name of a county. Kanada & Canada are said the same way in japanese. Which sounds weird to american ears so in the dub of the movie into english they change the pronunciation of the middle syllable's a sound from a soft a sound to a hard a sound (the 'ah' verses 'andy' a sounds) and emphasized that syllable too.

I do know that in chinese that changing the tonality of a word can change the word meaning.

[Seto Kaiba]

Whatever HG does they are going to need decent writers that can do a character driven story. At least in my opinion. Sure I like the tech, but if I can't get into the characters I might as well just buy the art book.

At present, it seems quite unlikely they'll be developing any new stories... not after the cancellation of the Shadow Saga's second episode, and the failure of the Robotech Academy Kickstarter. It's a minimum effort holding pattern we're in. Even the latest comic re-releases had "new" covers made by photoshopping together colorized art traced from thirty year old Macross artbooks rather than newly drawn cover art.

Harmony Gold has been doing all of its writing in-house to save money, and the quality has suffered accordingly. Tommy Yune is many things, but a great writer isn't one of them.

[Zer0 Kay]

I would rather have an original cast.

Which would mean that all the characters are new and unexplored.
Besides the original cast characters are too senior to be at the spear point stories.

The wording of your choice is humorous to me. If you replace 'an' with 'the' it means old character instead of new. Ah the English language where a single word completely changes meaning... but I guess that isn't rare as a single incorrect emPHAsis on the wrong syLABEL completely changes the meaning of a word in Japanese while just making it sound silly in English.

And here I took a few years of Japanese and was taught that there was no change in word meaning due to Emphasis due to there were no emphasis word changes in the language just like in english. And thus was taught to exclude any emphasis from the pronunciation.

Which does make a anime related joke around the name of a char in the movie Akira and the name of a county. Kanada & Canada are said the same way in japanese. Which sounds weird to american ears so in the dub of the movie into english they change the pronunciation of the middle syllable's a sound from a soft a sound to a hard a sound (the 'ah' verses 'andy' a sounds) and emphasized that syllable too.

I do know that in chinese that changing the tonality of a word can change the word meaning.

Oops your right. The intonation on the syllable is their accent and how they tell what region a person is from. I could have sworn that there were word where with an American accent makes the word mean something else. So I guess instead of emphasis on the wrong syllable it is simply mispronouncsing a syllable like japanese to american herro but with American japanese word with English pronunciation. I can't remember what it was though my Japanese teacher told me never to say "that way" because it just wasn't a good thing, refusing to explain what it meant. An actual Japanese japanese teacher not like many American foreign language teachers who teach the curse words first.

[Sambot]

I would like to know what happened to them. They don't have to be out in the thick of things though. They could be supporting characters. There are going to be new characters but you can't have the Sentinals without spending time on some of the older characters. They just don't have to be in every episode. There should be some kind of balance like there was in Macross. Sometimes the main characters got all the screen time and sometimes they were just supporting characters.

The problems that need overcoming are going to be good writing and good animation. I didn't like the story since so much had changed from what I had known and the writing just wasn't enough to keep me interested. I liked the animation style even less though. The biggest problem though is combat. Most combat in Macross happened in the air or in space. For Southern Cross and Mospeada most combat was on the ground. Personally I didn't mind and enjoyed all three series. It seems though that most fans prefer aerial combat and by it's nature most of the Sentinals would take place on the ground. We'd need some really great ground combat to keep those fans interest.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Oops your right. The intonation on the syllable is their accent and how they tell what region a person is from. I could have sworn that there were word where with an American accent makes the word mean something else. So I guess instead of emphasis on the wrong syllable it is simply mispronouncing a syllable like japanese to american herro but with American japanese word with English pronunciation. I can't remember what it was though my Japanese teacher told me never to say "that way" because it just wasn't a good thing, refusing to explain what it meant. An actual Japanese japanese teacher not like many American foreign language teachers who teach the curse words first.

There are two ways to say the number 4. 'Shi' and 'Yon'. Shi is also the word for death. So most nihonjin will use the word 'Yon' for the number four.

Then there are male and female and neuter words for some words.
example would be the equivalent of saying I or Me. Atashi (f), Boku (m), <forgot the neuter (formal) word>
So the gender of the teacher a foreigner will effect the word choices of the learner and if it was a cross gender Stu.-Tea. relationship. The student will pick up the word choices of the other gender and will sound weird to same gender native speakers.

So there are real reasons for not saying things certain ways.

[Alrik Vas]

Interestingly, i watched a movie recently where something like this happened.

Girl Trapped in Boy's Body: watashi...
Boy's Friends, Unknowing of the Condition: ????
Girl: Boku...?
Boys: ???
Girl: Ore?
Boys: *nodding correct*

[drewkitty ~..~]

watashi,,,that is the gender neutral word for me/I

what is the name?

[Chris0013]

I would be happy to get a new series...if you can get the original cast for any of the existing characters then fine.

[Rabid Southern Cross Fan]

Its been pretty much proven with The Shadow Chronicles, that you don't HAVE to have the original cast in anything but supporting roles and Robotech fans will buy it. Its time to stop pretending that Robotech ended at episode 36. There is a lot of untapped and uncharted areas of the Robotech universe that could and should be explored. Anyone who followed the Robotech Visions Facebook webcomic knows that there is a hunger in fandom for something other than "the newest retconned installment of The Macross Saga".

[glitterboy2098]

original cast in supporting roles works well in macross 7.. Max and Millia were fun, though i felt sorry for Exedol, being stuck standing on place on Battle 7's bridge most of the time.

though i am convinced that macross 7 was one of the reasons Max and Miriyia didn't even make a cameo in Shadow chronicles.. they didn't want fans (or lawyers) making comparisons to the Macross 7 versions.

and at least LLA helped answer where Lancer and Sera are. (don't remember if it answered where Rook, Rand, Lunk, and Annie got to.) i'd honestly rather see what happened to the rest of the crew from southern cross and New Generation got to than see the macross era cast.

[Seto Kaiba]

though i am convinced that macross 7 was one of the reasons Max and Miriyia didn't even make a cameo in Shadow chronicles.. they didn't want fans (or lawyers) making comparisons to the Macross 7 versions.

While it's a damn safe bet that the potential litigious consequences inherent in using Macross Saga characters in a recognizable form were a factor in Harmony Gold's decision to put most of the cast on a bus or in their graves, that probably wasn't the main factor.

Money... or, rather, the limited budget of the Shadow Chronicles feature... was probably the main motivator. The budget for the OVA's first (and only) episode was a little under $1 million, about 1/4 what it should have been for the runtime the OVA had at what the industry would consider an adequate level of quality. The voice actors who did the original Robotech series became SAG members in the intervening decades, so hiring them costs more... and I'd wager Mark Hamill didn't come cheap, even if he was only used for bit parts. Voice actors are usually paid more for voicing multiple characters in one episode too. Max and Miriya were probably left out to keep the production costs down.

and at least LLA helped answer where Lancer and Sera are. (don't remember if it answered where Rook, Rand, Lunk, and Annie got to.) i'd honestly rather see what happened to the rest of the crew from southern cross and New Generation got to than see the macross era cast.

It did, for the most part... if you count "living happily on Earth" as a broad "what happened to them". It didn't get quite a specific as "living in a cabin together and expecting a baby".

I'm not so sure I'd be keen to see what happened to the rest of the crew from the Masters Saga... most of them likely died suddenly and messily in the Invid invasion. I'll leave the excess violent onscreen demises to Gundam.

[ShadowLogan]

I'm not so sure I'd be keen to see what happened to the rest of the crew from the Masters Saga... most of them likely died suddenly and messily in the Invid invasion.

Well who's left at the end of TRM (as Emerson, Leonard, and Zor Prime are all dead):
-Dana (Prelude, L&W)
-Louie (Prelude, TSC)
-Angelo
-Bowie (L&W)
-Sean
-Marie
-Nova
-Musica and one of her sisters

Assuming that the 15th wasn't broken up, they all could have evacuated with Dana, Bowie, and Louie (L&W), and we know 2 of them are still alive in 2044 (Prelude, TSC). Though Sean and Angelo aren't part of L&W (IIRC), so they could have been reassigned. Nova was more of an intelligence agent, so I can see her going underground (keep in mind Nova is a woman, and given Lancer's escaping a solider hunt by dressing as a woman, Nova might be able to pull of something similar). That really only leaves Marie and the Tirolian clones to meet a potential grisly end, but if Sterlings are still around I'd suspect Marie is to (as on screen she is one of the leading Ace pilots in the show).